1998/03/31 15:05
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #251
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 251
Today's Topics:
Re: After Death Communications [ di <drf140ATnospamemail.psu.edu> ]
Re: pranayama [ stuartf <stuartfATnospamdimensional.com> ]
RE: Shakti poll [ Dirk_HaueterATnospamhrsoft.com (Dirk Hauet ]
After Death Communications [ MMeyers541 <MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com> ]
Healing energy for a new friend of m [ Kathy <deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com> ]
Re: Shakti poll-Dirk: Man of Much Wi [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Shakti poll [ Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com> ]
RE: untruth and major decisions [ "Jan Barendrecht" <janbarenATnospamcorreo. ]
AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Cen [ Patrick Radford <patrick.radfordATnospamwh ]
Re: Shakti poll [ Mark Anthony Collins <themacmanATnospammac ]
RE: GOD THE TORTURER [ "Jan Barendrecht" <janbarenATnospamcorreo. ]
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:18:59 -0500
From: di <drf140ATnospamemail.psu.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: After Death Communications
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980331131859.37dfd0deATnospamemail.psu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Michelle:
My name is Diane and I lost my Mother when I was 13 due to suicide. It is
very natural for your Momma to still hang with you a few years after she
has left the physical realm and in fact, you may as well get used to it.
She loved you unconditionally and wants to make sure you are all right and
I believe when you think of her, it stirs her spirit near you so she can
comfort you. Don't be scared dear--when she pulls covers over you, just
say, "thanks Mom ---good nite." I feel my Mother near me when I think of
her a lot, mostly on the anniversary of her death and occasionally, I'll
feel a kind of "whoosh" thru my body and immediately I'll know she's there.
So I say a few kind words and light an incense and offer some fruit of food
and when the incense burns out, I eat the fruit so I can in a way, share
with my Mother. It's very natural for your Momma to visit you, a mother
and daughter or son have a connection because at one point, you were the
same person in a sense. If you have any further questions, please feel
free to contact me.
Peace and much love to you sister,
Diane
At 12:22 AM 3/31/98 EST, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>My mother died on 2/23. I spent the last minutes of her life holding her
>hand, telling her I loved her, and that we'd both be OK. (I believe this
>helped her to move on, as the hospice had told me she had signs of dying
>within 12-24 hrs., but she actually died w/in a few minutes of my and my
>brother's arriving at the hospice.)
>
>A few days later, I was visiting some Spiritual websites. Just as I was
>reading that the newly departed often stick around awhile w/their loved ones,
>the lamp on my desk turned off & back on (none of the other electricity was
>affected, & that action definitely felt like my mother). Again, I told her I
>loved her, that we'd both be OK, & she should "Go back."
>
>The same week, I was lying in bed w/my eyes open (either I WAS awake, or I
>experienced this as a dream w/my eyes open), and my mother squeezed my hand
>three times. Told her the same things I had when she died & during her prev.
>visit.
>
>This afternoon, I was trying to take a nap. Have been going thru a difficult
>time lately, & couldn't sleep. I WAS actually thinking how much I missed my
>mom & that she was the only one who had ever loved me unconditionally. I was
>lying on my side. Just then, SHE pulled the covers up over me. I did not
see
>her, but there is no mistake about it, she pulled the covers several inches
>over me! This time, I jumped right out of bed. Again, I said that I was OK,
>she was too, & told her to "Go back."
>
>Well, it's nice to be assured of your mother's love, but I don't think it's
>good for either one of us if she keeps visiting. Any suggestions as to how I
>might deal with this? Thx--Michele
>
>P.S. Think I'll go for to the grief counseling offered by the hospice, but
>any ideas of what else I might say to my mother?
>
>
>
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:12:54 -0700
From: stuartf <stuartfATnospamdimensional.com>
To: joemillerATnospamhotmail.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: pranayama
Message-ID: <35214035.16B0918FATnospamdimensional.com>
Joseph,
I'd say you do care. Otherwise you would not have answered or replied. The
difference is you care about validating and proving your belief system
(notice I did not use the word ego) and backing it up with more words that
bear no resemblance to the type of response I talked about.
I'm not sure if you are a scholar of sorts who has done meticulous study of
the ancient sastras and upanishads, which by the way have been spread out
over a number of millennia, or you just heard this and have attached
yourself to this belief. I'd place my bet it's the latter.
Since you somehow miraculously define my philosophy as "do your own thing" ,
"don't worry it'll be cool if you mean well", I realize that you neither
know me, read my words carefully, nor taken the time to question me as to
what I was implying or practicing. You have missed the mark though
completely and defined me as I'm sure you define others in your own world
who do not sympathetically agree with everything you state.
Joseph, I don't believe you could do anything for my happiness. The fact
that you would even imply I pay you to back up your own empty arguments for
the sake my happiness is absorb. Perhaps it is the astral gunk lodged in
your nadi's that is causing such a illogical, judgemental and critical
analysis.
Ararita,
Stuart
Joseph Miller wrote:
> Stuart,
>
> In case I wasn't clear before please let me quote again from one who's
> opinions are so clearly thought out I agree with everything he says:
> >If you want to screw up either your health or process or both, have
> >at it! My duty is to point out the dangers what you choose to do is
> >your business.
>
> Seriously, I don't care what you do, I really don't. So if you don't
> agree with me fine, I don't care (notice a pattern here).
>
> As to:
> >warnings without specific information is basically meaningless and
> >amounts to old wifes tales that a woman can get pregnant by sitting
> >on a toilet bowl. Cigarette manufacturers very specifically label
> >there packages with conditions that may arise from smoking.
> I don't consider that aimed at me but at others who don't seem to get
> any credit for having answered questions clearly but are being ignored
> because the answers they gave, by necessity, disagree with the ever
> popular and stupid ideas of "do your own thing", and "don't worry,
> it'll be cool if you mean well".
>
> Since you asked here's your specific information: It has been passed
> down for centuries (not a couple but dozens of centuries) through
> teachers who have studied K as their life's work.
>
> I've noticed a real tendency to give a passing acknowledgement to the
> wisdom of such masters and totally ignore the teachings they so
> carefully left for students who were to come after.
>
> The modern reasoning goes much as yours does above. Basically it boils
> down to: 2000 (or 1000 or 3000 or whatever) years ago they didn't record
> things the right way, they didn't do double blind tests, and while they
> did respect those who had devoted their life to learning and observing
> what happened when "A" was done vs what happened when "B" was done and
> respected his/her teachings and told others to spread the word that is
> just "old wifes tales".
>
> The fact that such a gift is not satisfactory and wisdom gained in such
> a manner is considered to be as foolish as "old wifes tales that a woman
> can get pregnant by sitting on a toilet bowl" can not be explained in
> any way that reflects well on someone making such a judgement. Perhaps
> it is due to a higher order of foolishness, perhaps it is racism (these
> people did have a different skin tone), perhaps it is the notion that
> before science defined the laws of the cosmos for us our ancestors were
> too dumb to learn the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.
>
> >Instead of making wide general statements that are nothing more
> >then "scare tactics", you could, if you are really interested in
> >providing useful information present a more "scientific" approach
> >with facts, processes and collected "lab" data.
>
> If I'd said anything that hasn't been said before by many people far
> wiser than either of us in these matters I would publish my research and
> provide you all that you desire to fit your paradigm. I work in that
> sort of world, when you pay my hourly rate I'll be glad to do that for
> your happiness in what had been my free time too and dig through all the
> books out there that say just what I've stated and provide you with a
> ton of citations. Until then:
> >If you want to screw up either your health or process or both, have
> >at it!
>
> Namaste,
>
> Joe
>
> "Those who refuse to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat
> them."
>
> ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:08:55 -0500
From: Dirk_HaueterATnospamhrsoft.com (Dirk Haueter)
To: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>,
"'kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com'" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: Shakti poll
Message-ID: <00014A44.ATnospamhrsoft.com>
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part
Dear Kurt,
This is indeed a fun poll. I'm curious here hear some of the replies. What you
get will be more about the observer however. I'll give you an example. One of
the people on your list is HH Dalai Lama. In 1987 I was in India with my teacher
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. My mother also happen to be passing through India on some
tour. She was going to see the Dalai Lama so I was persuaded to go along.
Wonderful man. Very charming. Wonderful sense of humor but I felt no buzz. I
could not understand at the time why people got so excited about him. I did not
feel anywhere near the same presence as I felt with my teacher. What a joke on
me! We resonate with and a spectrum of energy. When we are only open in a
certain frequency range that is all we are able to perceive. Would I have a
different reaction to his holiness today? Probably. At least I would like to
think so. It is a great gift to have a broad perspective. Then we can see how
the shakti moves differently in each person and in each in different ways.
Love,
Dirk
Kurt Keutzer wrote:
One thing I've found fascinating is how different people have greater or
lesser amounts of shakti.
I thought it would be gratuitously fun (no desire to do a real spiritual
teacher rating or anything like that) to get people's perspective on
``who have you met that has the most shakti'' -
``who have you met that has the sweetest shakti''
``who have you met, that wasn't a spiritual practitioner, that has the most
shakti''
To get things started:
``who have you *met* that has the most shakti''
Ling Rinpoche, (HH Dalai Lama's late senior tutor)
Swami Muktananda
Swami Rudrananda
Swami Chetanananda
HH Dalai Lama
Zong Rinpoche (late)
Luding Khen Rinpoche
Lati Rinpoche
HH Sakya Trizin
Swami Nityananda
Lama Tharchin
Reverend Jordan (pentecostal minister when I was a kid)
Bruce Kumar Frantzis (martial artist, qi gong and kundalini)
``who have you *met* that has the sweetest shakti''
Kirti Tshenshab Rinpoche
Swami Shivom Tirth
HH Dalai Lama
Zong Rinpoche (the new one)
Swami Shiv Mangal Tirth
My Sunday school teacher when I was 9
L. B. Wood ( a friend)
``who have you *met*, that wasn't a spiritual practitioner, that has the
most shakti''
a venture capitalist
several CEO's
a couple sales guys
(never met any rock stars - but I'll bet they would be up here - ditto for
politicians)
Again, this is meant to be a fun, gratuitous exercise. Post your input if
you like - but please no complaints about how meaningless this is - OK?
Kind Regards,
Kurt
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:31:19 EST
From: MMeyers541 <MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: After Death Communications
Message-ID: <33a71742.35214489ATnospamaol.com>
Hi All,
Have rec'd some very heart-warming emails from many on this list--really
appreciate your suggestions and comfort about communications from my mom!
Almost everyone said that it's time for ME to listen to my mother & see what
she has to say before she moves FORWARD--& also to allow her to help me with
this passage (I have been focused on helping HER pass on, as she fought her
"death" until just a few days before it).
Thanks to all for sharing your stories of your loved ones' passings, & also
for the visualizations and other support. Love, Michele
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:04:13 +0000
From: Kathy <deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Healing energy for a new friend of mine
Message-ID: <3520F7DB.3AE2E936ATnospamfull-moon.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
This morning I had my heart "captured" by a little sick pup I'm calling "Honey" for
right now. He was abandoned and sitting all forlorn at the side of a busy street. I
took him to the vet and he has parvo and is emaciated, his white cells are way down
and it is a 50-50 chance that he will survive.
Please, list members, send energy toward this little creature so that he may either
survive or so he will not suffer needlessly and long. My major soft spot is for
animals, and I know there are those out there who will say "hey, others are
suffering, too, why should we bother with one little sick pup?"
Do it for "Honey" and for me, okay?
He is physically located in Yukon Oklahoma right now, which is just west of Oklahoma
City, if you want a focal point.
I've given him my energy and I feel he needs all the help he can get to survive,
goddess/god willing.
Thanks list members!
Love and Brightest Blessings
Delirium the soft
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:21:46 EST
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: Dirk_HaueterATnospamhrsoft.com, keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu,
kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Shakti poll-Dirk: Man of Much Wisdom
Message-ID: <70206024.3521505fATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-03-31 14:28:53 EST, Dirk_HaueterATnospamhrsoft.com writes:
<< When we are only open in a
certain frequency range that is all we are able to perceive. Would I have a
different reaction to his holiness today? Probably. At least I would like to
think so. It is a great gift to have a broad perspective. Then we can see how
the shakti moves differently in each person and in each in different ways.
Love,
Dirk >>
Harsha: Well put by Dirk, one of the silent wise persons of the K-List. By the
way Dirk, there can also be delyaed reactions in meeting with Sages! Sometimes
you only know years later (or a life time later) what happened.
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:48:15 EST
From: Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com>
To: keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Shakti poll
Message-ID: <8c1d5532.35215691ATnospamaol.com>
An old Tibetan monk--teacher of both of my sisters. I visited him in New
Jersey at his Tibetan Buddhist Learning Center years ago. Geshe-la Wangyal
was his name. A truly wise man. He probably saved both my sisters' lives,
involved as they were in the lower east side NY drug scene. Helped me, too.
Love, Hillary
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:52:43 +0100
From: "Jan Barendrecht" <janbarenATnospamcorreo.infase.es>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: untruth and major decisions
Message-ID: <000001bd5ce6$f3fe3a80$4ef14dc3ATnospamjb>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Peswani,
I changed the subject - Anurag isn't involved in the reply.
You wrote:
> OUR HINDU RELIGION OFTEN TALKS OF THIS BODY AS ILLUSION. IT TALKS
> THAT THERE IS A GOD OR ATMA OR SOUL. THESE ARE "UNTRUTHS" OR "NOT OF THE
> MOMENT" AS BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO IMAGINE THEM. THEY ARE NOT YOUR DIRECT
> EXPERIENCE.
This makes sense to me, because meditative experiences are always explained
/ related to the system of meditation. The experience itself is independent
of the verbiage given later on. Some of the experiences in meditation can be
very frightening without a perspective (if you do not know what is going to
happen). Because the experiences do vary widely between meditators, some
kind of a frame of reference is needed. This perspective is addressed by
these systems of meditation. You wrote to have fought against
Bodhisattvahood for three years. In "normal" life there is a saying:" if you
can't beat them, join them". Did you stop meditating or did you adapt your
practice of meditation to your becoming a Bodhisattva? If you think in terms
of fight, sometimes you can only win by loosing. One of the laws of
meditative life is, that nothing really is lost; you only think so. The
karma-clouds are as part of your reality as is the light. You have to accept
your reality - you can't fight it.
>THIS UNIVERSE HAS ALREADY EVOLVED AND VERY VERY >INTELLIGENTLY. ALL
> MAJOR DECISIONS HAVE BEEN PROGRAMMED. BHODDISATTVAS OR BUDDHAS ARE A MAJOR
> EVENTS AND ARE PROGRAMMED AS PER BUDDHIC THINKINGS.
Where do you draw the line between "free choice" and "fixed destiny"?
The only real choice in life appears to be the meditative life yes or no.
Choosing the meditative life means getting rid of karma. The non-meditative
life always offers the choice of unselfish action as a precursor to the
meditative life. Without the possibility of choice, there would be no need
for an ego. As unselfish action is the exception, indeed major events can be
predicted due to collective karma, or are programmed as you say.
>[...] READ MY RESPONSE TO DANIJEL. I MIGHT ALSO SEND YOU MORE >OF MY OLD
> WRITINGS ON THIS INTELLIGENT ENERGY AFTER I AM FREE FROM >THESE
> DISCUSSIONS. [...]
I have read your response. In some way, your experiences remind me of
Blavatsky, Heindel and Steiner - names you are probably familiar with.
Jan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peswani [mailto:peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 2:32 AM
> To: kundalini-l
> Subject: Anurag Goel
>
>
> I lost your letter, but a reply was ready in my computer. I am
> sending this reply thro list.
>
> Dear Peswani,
>
> As you are a Bodhisattva, were you able to save these big gurus from thei=
> r
> errant ways by your newly found wisdom?
>
> I AM ON THE WAY TO BECOMING BHODDHISATTVA. THE WHOLE PROCESS MAY
> TAKE FROM ONE TO SEVEN LIVES. THUS I WAS TOLD.
> AT THE TIME WHEN I APPROACED THESE GURUS ...THEY WERE HARDLY
> ACKNOWLEDGING MY PRESENCE. AND I DID NOT HAVE A KNOWLEDGE AT THAT TIME AS
> TO WHAT I AM GOING TO BE. COME ON ANURAG BE EASY ON ME
>
> Could you tell us from what this intelligent energy evolved and to what i=
> t
> will further evolve? Burning Karmas it a great achievement... Can you
> destroy Karmas that originate in delusions like "amassing wealth will mak=
> e
> me happy" also?
>
> YES, I WAS ABLE TO DESTROY THESE DELUSIONS. REGARDIN INTELLIGENT
> ENERGY READ MY RESPONSE TO DANIJEL. I MIGHT ALSO SEND YOU MORE OF MY OLD
> WRITINGS ON THIS INTELLIGENT ENERGY AFTER I AM FREE FROM THESE
> DISCUSSIONS.
>
> Forgive my curiosity, born out of ignorance, but if there=
> is
> a truth "of the moment", there has to be a truth, that is "not of the
> moment". Could you inform us about the relation between both truths? Many=
> of
> us in the group are beginners, intent on learning.
>
> OUR HINDU RELIGION OFTEN TALKS OF THIS BODY AS ILLUSION. IT TALKS
> THAT THERE IS A GOD OR ATMA OR SOUL. THESE ARE "UNTRUTHS" OR "NOT OF THE
> MOMENT" AS BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO IMAGINE THEM. THEY ARE NOT YOUR DIRECT
> EXPERIENCE.
> OUR BODY, ITS PAINS OR MOVEMENTS OR SENSATIONS, ITS FEELING OF
> HEAT OR COLD ETC IS THE "TRUTH" OF THEMOMENT. ANY THOUGHTS OR EMOTIONS
> COMING IN ARE ALSO THE TRUTH OF THE MOMENT AS YOU ARE DIRECTLY
> EXPERIENCING THEM.
>
> Understanding you is a bit difficult indeed. With the teachings of
> Ramakrishna and Ramana Maharishi, many are familiar, but not (yet) with t=
> he
> teachings of Peswani. Because happiness is such an important treasure, co=
> uld
> you inform us on what your happiness depends? Belief is a bit missing in =
> a
> group that is centered about K. experience and related effects, so don=92=
> t be
> too hard on us please.
>
> ALL YOUR HAPPINESS OR ANY OTHER EMOTION IS OUTCOME OF A KARMA
> CLOUD THT IS TRYING TO PROJECT OUT AT A PARTICULAR MOMENT. SAY YOU DO NOT
> WANT TO BE ANGRY EVER.
> SIT DOWN IN MEDITATION, QUIETEN THE MIND. NOW DELIBERATELY THINK
> OF ANY THING OF WHICH YOU ARE ANGRY. ANGER KARM WILL COME OUT. OBSERVE
> THIS KARMA WITH BALANCE OF MID BUT RECOGNISING THAT THIS IS YOUR ANGER.
> YOU HAVE TO REPEAT THIS PROCESS MANY TIMES. O NE DAY YOU WILL BE FREE FROM
> ANGER. REMEMBER ALL YOUR KARMAS ARE IN ASTRAL BODY SIZE OF WHICH IS AS BIG
> AS YOUR PHYSICAL BODY. ANGER KARMAS MAY BE HIDING IN YOUR FET OR HAND OR
> ANYWHERE. INORDER TO BRING THEM OUT INITIALLY WILL BE EASY BUT LATER ON
> YOU HAVE TO CONCENTRATE MORE AND MORE.
>
>
> Do you mean by this that God did program you as Bodhisattva? According to
> your analogy, a guru must be the equivalent of a hacker, being able to cu=
> t
> out parts of the program -: )) and a skilled hacker is quite capable of
> changing the program altogether. How should a Buddhist interpret this? Th=
> e
> primordial mind being a giant background program, consisting of individua=
> l
> subroutines with back-up facility? For a Buddhist guru then Reality must =
> be
> hacker=92s paradise -: ))) I am very interested in your answers. Please f=
> eel
> free to use all technical terms related to computers etc. for explanation=
> -
> a modern approach is very refreshing.
>
> ALL KNOWLEDGE INCLUDING COMPUTER AND ATOMIC KNOWLEGE CAME DOWN
> FROM BUDDHIC PLANE. TO ASUME THAT EINSTIEN OR ANY OTHE PERSON DID IT IS A
> FOLLY IN THE PRESENT TIME.
> THIS UNIVERSE HAS ALREADY EVOLVED AND VERY VERY INTELLIGENTLY. ALL
> MAJOR DECISIONS HAVE BEEN PROGRAMMED. BHODDISATTVAS OR BUDDHAS ARE A MAJOR
> EVENTS AND ARE PROGRAMMED AS PER BUDDHIC THINKINGS.
> I HAVE FOUGHT THIS BODDHISATTVAHOOD FOR THREE YEARS, YET MY
> EFFORTS FAILED AND NOW I AM RECONCILED TO THE DECISION OF HIGHER
> INTELLIGENT ENERGY.
> ......SHAHANSHAH
>
>
>
>
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 11:04:40 -1000 (HST)
From: Patrick Radford <patrick.radfordATnospamwhich.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id: <199803312104.LAA10622ATnospamhaleakala.aloha.net>
Hello - what has happened to the list - it seems to be stuck in 1996-7.
Has Hawaii been invaded by aliens ? If anyone is out there please make
contact .
Knowledge of the kundalini might be the only way to defeat them .
Unless we have become the aliens that is and that is why no one is talking .
Do you speak my language ? Comprendo , signor? Aloha ?
Well if you are out there - in here - its time we got talking , even if it is
to a mute computer .
I have enjoyed complete kundalini realisation for the last ten years and believe it is
the true and only philosopher's stone or elixir of everlasting life .
By everlasting life I mean that now that my spirit has become consciously liberated
through the piercing of the Sahasrara Chakra I have become my spirit .
So what if my body is perishable , everything seems to be so disposable , its no surprise that
when I've finished using it , I simply throw it away .
Of course that doesn't stop anyone else from picking it up and putting it somewhere else . But that's human beings for you .
Until they are liberated themselves they often tend to stick with the things they know , clingy
touchy feely attachments to their sympathetic energies that as yet they have not superceded.
(Now I sound like an alien .)
But all I hear from you people is how hard life is for having encountered kundalini .How much work you have to put in
just to put her right , or yourselves right or whatever . Yet you never seem to get it do you ? Am I living in the right century ?
Was I born too early ? Where have you been ? I mean any one can get kundalini realisation today and you do not
have to perform a bagful of tricks just to keep it .But you still do not seem to get it .
If it was made easy for you , you would still refuse , simply because you have just got too used to a bucking horse
or a freaking spiritual possession to ever see beyond 'the first few steps'. Why don't you admit it ?
You are all either ignorant , frightened or just plain stoical in regard to the truth and that is why you are just not
prepared to help youselves make it easier . Instead of all this suffering for the sake of some dumb journeyman mastery
where you take a lifetime to get it you can now have it straight away without a dime to pay .
But will you ? No way ! Your just too damn stuck in your ways !
Adam Kadmon a.k.a. Severin Severin a.k.a.Arthur Avalon a.k.a.Saktiman.
I do apologise for my alter egos taking control - I hope they didn't lambast you too much with their triumphalist talk .Nobody seems to want to listen .
Perhaps they are too arrogant and disrespectful .They do want to make contact but feel much like hippy kids who cannot
communicate with their parents who still take LSD . The kids have been born into it and can now trip spontaneously without
the artificial enhancers . The adults swear that that is all it is .
Who is right ? I dare say we are all a bit of both nowadays .We need food to live but we can also dream in colour.
Well if I haven't frightened you off please reply to my E-mail ; as to my alter-egos , they know what it is to know all things, but
don't let that put you off questioning them , after all they might have
something you want , or else something you can't yet get which is why this list is up and running .
Patrick Radford.
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:10:29 -0800
From: Mark Anthony Collins <themacmanATnospammacsrule.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Shakti poll
Message-ID: <352185D2.3B73ATnospammacsrule.com>
I'm afraid my experience is quite limited... After all, I'm a
Christian... What do we know about Shakti? ;-)
``who have you met that has the most shakti''
David Nowe, who studied under Swami Muktananda
``who have you met that has the sweetest shakti''
Maryalice Kelly, a dear friend, deacon of the church, and most likely
the reincarnation of Myrtle Fillmore (co-founder of Unity).
``who have you met, that wasn't a spiritual practitioner, that has the
most shakti''
An older (not elderly) Native American working at a gas station near
Albequerque, NM...
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:57:39 +0100
From: "Jan Barendrecht" <janbarenATnospamcorreo.infase.es>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: GOD THE TORTURER
Message-ID: <000101bd5cf0$062c12a0$48f14dc3ATnospamjb>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
> > john light [mailto:ozgpATnospamyahoo.com] wrote on: Tuesday, March 31, 1998
7:30 AM
>>
> Dear Kundalini People:
>
> I feel that it is time to speak my mind. Kundalini can be very
> dangerous to one's mental health. Ever since my awakening started I
> have be burned and prodded and pinched and pulled and pushed. I
> experience nothing but pain! I used to believe in a heavenly father
> before my awakening. Now I believe in a heavenly sadistic torturer who
> seems to take delight in hurting innocent people. Instead of love, I
> am learning to hate. I do not know how much more I can take of this! I
> hate it!
> My skin feels as if it is on fire and my chest and forehead feel as it
> someone is constantly hitting them with a hammer. I am starting to
> thing that the only way out is to go on some sort of drugs. God
> certainly does not seem to care. I see no God. I hear no God. All
> I experience is pain and suffering from this relentless energy that
> rips my insides to shreds! God? What God?
> Kundalini is surely a tool of satan himself!
>
> JL
>
Dear John,
Your story reminds me of the stories about NDEs. Many are pleasant. Some are
even serene. But a few are cruel, unpleasant or even sadistic and more or
less seem to be a forebode of hell. With K., it will be much the same.
Unfortunately, many experiencing K. have adopted a frame of reference and
one thing such a frame of reference does, is to shape the experiences. So it
is very unlikely that someone like you has the guts to tell about
experiences like yours, because they "just don't fit in with the crowd".
Yet, many of the things you mention, are part of what many have been
experiencing - with the difference, that in your case, only negative aspects
are present. It will not be a surprise to you, that not all "frames of
reference" (the various systems of meditation) are in favor of K.: some
deify K, others consider K. to be distracting from spirituality itself and
of course there are many "in-betweens". You have to make some kind of
effort to overcome the negativity. It really doesn't matter how you do it:
just force your attention to something that can capture and hold your
concentration (for instance sports or making music). Your remark:" Kundalini
is surely a tool of Satan himself!" is something that appears in the book:
"Daughter of fire" by Irina Tweedie. With the aid of her master, she started
K. as a kind of "visit to hell", albeit in a different form as you are
describing it. Nevertheless, with K. you are always in for a surprise. The
way Shree Purohit Swami described his K. awakening is far worse: he could
not even sit in any asana. He could not have been typing a letter as you
still can do. Yet he did hold on and attained of course. With beliefs you
must be careful always: how would you have reacted without belief in a
heavenly father? But if you are insisting on a heavenly father, you have no
other choice than to accept the entire episode as a kind of test and make
the best out of it.
Jan
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