1998/03/30 10:40
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #247
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 247
Today's Topics: Re: PRANAYAMA [ Stuart ]
Re: *IMPORTANT* Enlightened Sublimin [ Danijel Turina ] Re: PRANAYAMA [ Imtgxxx ]
AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Cen [ Arcangelo Licinio ] "simpletons"..."geniuses"..."crazy d [ Kathy ]
Re: chalta hai (fwd) [ Jeanne Garner ] Re: *IMPORTANT* Enlightened Sublimin [ Jeanne Garner ]
Re: headbands (fwd) [ "Debora A. Orf" ] AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Cen [ Delores Wheeler ]
Re: pranayama [ E Jason ] Re: healing [ John Living ]
Might be of interest [ Jeanne Garner ] please take me off the list. thankyo [ "Christine Pincince"
To: Mystress Angelique Serpent CC: Harsha1MTM , keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu,
930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: PRANAYAMA
Message-ID:
Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
> OK. Stuart, I wrote this post on Feb 23, and sat on it.. it's kind of > dark.. here ya go.
> > Hmm.. dunno much about pranayama but I can guess..
> > I used to have a beloved, who was K. awakened, deeply depressed to the
> point of contemplating suicide, and addicted to autoerotic asphyxia as a > result of birth defects that caused him to NDE from lack of oxygen several
> times, as a child. >
> I do not allow those games in my playroom, they scare the crap outa me, > instinctively. Brains need oxygen to stay healthy. Specific amounts of
> oxygen, hyperventilating is no good either. > I spend more time in my playroom reminding folks who are holding their
> breath unconsciously, in anticipation, to BREATHE! >
> I could not find the guts to watch over him, I could not persuade him > with all my arts, to give up his solitary pleasure. his shame in it,
> knowing it was self destructive only added to his sorrow, so I tried to > give him love and acceptance, as well as I was able.
> Being around me tended to lift his depression, but it was a temporary > solace, and away from me he would dive into it, to the point of feeling
> unworthy of allowing my attentions to pull him out of it again. So, I knew > his depression was connected to his K, but I presumed his addiction to
> breathlessness was a symptom, not the cause.. tuning into the story behind > the story of these warnings, I see it differently. Hindsight..
> The lines in his hands foretold it, I had seen them and tried to change > his fate: it was not mine, to change. Attempting, streached me beyond
> myself, and I am grateful to him who taught me so much, by being my student. > his death was listed as "accidental suicide", but I think he went to a
> place, where depression wasn't, and decided at last minute not to come back.
Stuart: While I certainly appreciate your story from the point of you expressing yourself, his experience and your feelings I can in no way make any
correspondence here with practical yoga and the various techniques it utilizes. I can't relate to your friend's experience but I can compare it to a healthy
approach and see the sharp contrasts.
> I remember reading the story of a woman last year, who had gone into her > yoga class feeling depressed, and during the meditation spontaneously
> decided to end it all and just stop breathing. She nearly succeeded, too, > going into the tunnel and all, before her higher self kicked her back into
> her body with a thump and a gasp, to open her eyes and find her yoga > teacher staring at her terrified. He had noticed she was not breathing, and
> beginning to change color...
Stuart:Okay, so a serverly manic depressive with suicidal tendencies may have a problem with reality. That same person may have gone to a culinary class and
grabbed a carving knife and stabbed herself. Again, I appreciate your relating of the story but in no way can I see the similarities with the practice of yoga.
> Brains need oxygen.. I remember in junior high school we studied India,
> with those National Geographic films of siddhis doing strange things, > families living on inherited patches of sidewalk and bodies floating down
> the Ganges... yoikes.. culture shock fer this little white grrl in her > nearly all white Catholic school.
> I remember looking at the fakirs and noticing some seemed alive with > life, very spiritual, and others, most notably a fella who'd been standing
> on his head for years, had a vacant gaze like there was just no brain left > in there at all. Nothing too holy about it, just brain damaged.
> No offense intended.. it was the thoughts of a child.. but it does seem > to me that depriving your brain of oxygen, or keeping it upside down for
> years might kill more of it than just your ego.. ya know what I mean? > Dangerous stuff.
Stuart: Reminds me of the movie "Reefer Madness". I know the types of movies you
are referring to, films that show the most extreme conditions, leave out most of the facts, make it as shocking to the emotional senses of it's viewers as
possible and provides little in the way of real fact. People living on the streets?, I lived on the lower east side of Manhattan for three years and saw
plenty of those people. (I was in an apartment :) ).
> An excellent movie about "free divers", "The Big Blue" is one of my > favorites.. It is an adaptation of a true story. The hero is a french yogi
> who has mastered breath control to be able to dive to incredible depths > without an oxygen tank. The film has another diver trying to break his
> record with sheer will power and dying of the bends. > But if the actor playing the world free diving champion and world record
> holder is portraying the charachter accurately, he gives the impression of > a simpleton.
> > I got a similar impression from a yogi who demonstrated how he could be
> folded up and locked into a tiny airtight plexiglass box for 1/2 hour > without suffocating, years ago on the TV show, "That's Incredible".
> However, to be fair, he may simply have been in deep trance in preparation > for his feat... and afterwards..
Stuart: In my understanding few yogi's or any adept on any path goes around
demonstrating their powers. What really would be the point in such a show of feat? To me this is just another extreme case. I do not claim to be an expert
but I will let my intuition and what has worked so far for me, my common sense guide me.
> But I still cannot understand why Yogis who go into samadhi and stop
> breathing and exit this mortal coil are glorified?? I just don't get it.. > suicide is suicide, even if one does learn to be very tidy about it. Why
> are there no true immortals?
Stuart: Maybe it was time for them to move on. I really can't say. Is it really any different then a person developing an illness in the prime of their life and
passing on? There is much talk of how we create our own diseases. Why do we believe or hold on to the fairy tale type of life that doesn't exist.Who said
there are no true immortals? I don't think they will show up on television, I do believe (maybe my delusion) they imortals very well exist. Spiritual history
and traditions confirm these people. The bible provides some interesting lifes of people, although not immortal living to 600 and more years. The great sage
Babaji I believe is more then just a myth. These are small examples.
> I'll wear this body till Goddess decides otherwise, meantime I'll make > sure it keeps breathing. She has put me on this planet and here I'll stay...
Stuart: And hopefully continuing to contribute your wonderful posts to this
list. I appreciate your response and thank you for your time.
Namaste, Stuart
> Blessings, Mystress.
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 16:26:37 +0200 From: Danijel Turina
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: *IMPORTANT* Enlightened Subliminal Message to Everyone
Message-Id:
At 23:26 1998.03.29 EST, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >xxxtg
> >http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html
> >* Take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila *
So that was the sound of one hand clapping? ;))))) LOL :))))))
Oh, I'm enlightened!! :))))))) Sweetheart, you're a genius! :)))
-----
E-mail : sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:37:14 -0500 From: Harsh Luthar
To: Peswani CC: Harsha1MTM , kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: chalta hai (fwd) Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Peswani wrote:
> FINALLY DEAR HARSHA LET US END THESE DIFFERENCES WHERE WE BEGAN
> WITH THE WORDS > CHALTA HAI. SUB CHALTA HAI......SHAHANSHAH
Harsha replies in Hindi also: KHUSH RAHO PYARE PESHWANI! KHUSH RAHO! KHOOB HANSO PYARE PESHWANI! KHOOB HANSO!
Loose English translation: Be Happy Dear Peshwani! Be Happy! Laugh a lot Dear Peshwani! Laugh with Joy!
Hugs and flying kisses from from your buddy Harsha. Say Hi to Kishan for me. Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:02:49 EST
From: Imtgxxx To: stuartfATnospamdimensional.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: PRANAYAMA
Message-ID:
Stuart writes: In my understanding few yogi's or any adept on any path goes around demonstrating their powers. What really would be the point in such a
show of feat?
I have always thought that someone like David Copperfield is a Master of this illusionary world, and not in the way he would want us to think, ie. magic.
Think about it. Here is a man (is he?) who performs amazing feats - I mean the guy flys - he makes snow all over his stage and the audience.... and maybe
it is just magic. But is it really? What if he is using a lot of magic in most the tricks he does to cover up his real powers he tapped into, that he
brings out at the end of the show to really dazzle the audience? If that is the case, the point in such a show of feat is bringing a lot of joy and
entertainment to millions of people throughout the world. He gives credit to *magic* and *illusion*. Poo! Me thinks he's hiding something....
xxxtg
* Deja Poo: the feeling that you've heard this bullsh*t before *
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id:
I am a last -year undergraduate in philosophy at the University of Bari,Italy.
I am working at my graduation thesis in History of Science. I would like to carry out an historical research into the approach that western medicine
have had in this century with the therapeutic potentialities of Hata Yoga (especially Iyengar method).
I am looking for a bibliography about the relations between Hata Yoga and the Medicine, from the medical point of view. I also need general references
to doctors who have set up again their therapeutic work through the comparison with Hata yoga.
As I study philosophy, I am especially interested in the paradigmatic changes that belong to the comparison of medicine with hata Yoga; I am
interested as well in social implications, as for example the teaching programs of Iyengar Yoga in the U.K. at school (this is a known matter, but
I have not been able to find any material about it). I have made inquiries about that but unfortunately they have not been
successful. I hope you will suggest me a bibliography or further information about that.
Thank you very much, Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:17:05 +0000
From: Kathy To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: "simpletons"..."geniuses"..."crazy diamonds" Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
My life lessons go on.
In my neighborhood, an urban neighborhood... on our street, we have the luxury of having block-deep back
gardens...but we are crammed cheek-to-jowl in 65 foot wide lots, with maybe 12 feet between houses. It isn't so bad, not at all like terraced houses in England or apartment blocks...but sometimes the neighbors get on
each others' nerves.
Two houses down from us, there is an elderly man who just recently began "manifesting craziness"...he moved in about a year ago, he and his wife...and until last fall he was "fine" other than having a whole stack of junk
on his front porch...but I just figured he was a retired tinkerer and this stuff was his hobby.
Last fall, he started some very "peculiar" actions...he walked out onto his front lawn, and standing, staring at the street, he suddenly began putting his arms out as if to "grab" cars and pedestrians that passed...Our
neighbor next door became frightened of him, as she never knew when he was going to be out there and what he was going to try to "grab" next. As far as I know, he has never actually grabbed anything, he just puts his
arms out as if he was *meaning* to grab them. Talking to him, he just says he finds it all very funny...
So now, he is getting "worse"...he walks out into the street and literally stops traffic by getting in front of a car as it tries to pass and putting his arms out and leaning forward to grab the car...once again, he
doesn't touch the car, but he is starting to cause more people to brake in alarm when he steps out in front of them. He also has got closer and closer to pedestrians.
I don't really know what my action should be here...I could let this fellow be, or I could go talk to his
wife, or to him, or I could call the police, and my "fear" is that this fellow will either get struck down by a car or cause a car to swerve into another, or off the street onto our lawns...
But whatever, I have never been so "close" to such "craziness" ...
The funny part of it all is that he began doing this about the same time that I started feeling K-energy
moving...coincidence or???
Whazzup, oh wise and noble list? What are your feelings on what might be going on here? *Just* senile dementia, or???
--Delirium
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:24:27 From: Jeanne Garner
To: Mystress Angelique Serpent , hlutharATnospambryant.edu Cc: Peswani ,
kundalini-l Subject: Re: chalta hai (fwd)
Message-Id:
At 07:46 PM 3/29/98, Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
> I believe the most powerful desires come straight from Goddess, and so my
>path is to follow my bliss. Needs themselves are not good or bad, they are >just who we are.. it is how we choose to get our needs met, and whether we
>choose to honor them with love and acceptance, that is the sticking place.
One of my yoga teachers used to tell me--often--"You came into this earthly body for a reason. Life is precious, and if you deny your special purpose,
it will be a long while before you get another chance. We all have earthly lessons to learn, and earthly things to do. So get busy: Do Earth." It
seems to me that by denying the earthly nature we all have while living in these bodies, that we slap our Benefactor/ress in the heart. We are
spirit, yes, but we are also earthly, and earthy beings. I think of something you said earlier, in the context of darkness and light, about
cutting off half of your Tao--when we deny either the spirit or the "earthiness", it's much the same. Balance, then, is the key.
For the record, I vote with you for letting up on this new k-list sport of
Peswani bashing. What kind of "truly enlightened" being would indulge in it? And who, outside of Peswani's head, knows what's really going on in
there? I sense sincerity in his posts, and they sometimes bring new understanding. Maybe its time for the "experts" to re-examine their own
thoughts?
Jeanne
==-* My stars! Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:26:30
From: Jeanne Garner To: "Jason S. White" , "Imtgxxx" ,
Subject: Re: *IMPORTANT* Enlightened Subliminal Message to Everyone
Message-Id:
At 12:27 PM 3/30/98 +0200, Jason S. White wrote:
>tg wrote:
> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
> >Excellent diction and use of imagery! Profound metaphors! Dazzling!
>I can now, with no further doubt or question, declare that I can read >subliminal email. Happy day! Here's my response:
> >
> >
> . >
> >
> >
>What do you think?
A bit verbose, but otherwise appropriate.
Jeanne
==-* My stars! Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:27:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "Debora A. Orf" To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: headbands (fwd) Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Thought maybe someone else could benefit from this :)
---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 22:53:55 EST
From: Harsha1MTM To: dorf01ATnospammail.win.org
Subject: Re: headbands
In a message dated 98-03-28 17:31:03 EST, you write:
Harsha: Hi Janpa, I think you are fine because you are an experienced
meditation student and have much knowledge about Kundalini and have experienced it. I might have mentioned it to you before your retreat that
advanced Yogis reduce sleep in order to prolong the Samadhi states. Too much reduction of sleep too quickly combined with intense meditation creates more
pressure on the Shakti and the energy centers in the brain. This can sometimes be felt in the temples and the forehead (the band meets in front at the third
eye) or even the crown. Intense buzzing during sleep and the tightening band around the head can be symptoms of increasing pressure. However, you are
leading a fairly healthy and a grounded life so don't worry. Do, however, get proper rest and sleep and spend time with Husband, family etc. Going gradually
in meditation is always better than trying to attain something quickly. You may want to discuss this matter with your Teacher as you are close to him and
trust his judgement. By the way others have asked me this same question that you did. Do you think I should put this response on the list or would you feel
comfortable forwarding it?. Best wishes Janpa...........Harsha Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 08:28:26 -0700
From: stuartf To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Pranayama:Just a few more points Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
1. In the normal average individual , holding the breath past the point
of passing out will cause the individual to pass out, and in turn the person will start breathing again. I know, even in my limited
experience with Khumbaka, that there is "moments" of time between starting to feel the initial stages of passing out and actually passing
out. Passing out is not the goal nor is taking yourself past the point of it going to accomplish much more in the working with the vayu.
2. Cutting off your oxygen? Regardless of empty or full chalice breath
retention there is still oxygen in your system. There is also still breath moving through your system regardless of whether you are
breathing "normally" or not.
3. There are defintely limitations in how long an individual can hold their breath, but like all good well engineered systems the body has
circut breakers.
Namaste, Stuart
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 05:41:50 -1000 (HST) From: Delores Wheeler
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id:
Can kundalini be involved with infertility and miscarriage so prevelant today? Date: Sat, 29 Mar 97 19:45:08 GMT
From: E Jason To: kundalini
Subject: Love over All Message-Id:
on 29 Mar 98, Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote...
> Robert A. Hienlien is one of my Gurus.. and he defined love as "when the
>happiness and wellbeing of another outweighs all other considerations.." >(sic) and mebbie that is a good description of enlightenment, too.. When
>the happiness and wellbeing of All others out weighs all other >considerations.
A person who lives their life from this perspective (something we all could try
and move towards) has no time for personal "enlightenment".
Be Well Be Happy
Grow in Love
Lobster (being personal) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 97 19:31:46 GMT
From: E Jason To: Stuart
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: pranayama
Message-Id:
on 29 Mar 98, Stuart wrote...
>This is not to say that there is validity in using caution and guidance >under a good teacher. I'm not arguing that point. I also have not read one
>iota of the "dangers" of pranayama outside of the guideline to proceed >slowly and practically.
We see what we want to see.
In the early stages of practicing pranayama, health and well being is increased. This quite a simple physiological process. A sense of well being and confidence
is a good thing. Pranayama also will release other responses and other conditions, some of them are akin to madness, fear and other extreme emotional
conditions. The reason for caution and a teacher is for reference. The teacher will see certain conditions such as supreme confidence in ones ability to handle
all forces generated and apply a remedy. If you want to accumalate Prana, develop "K" and so on, the best way for solo
practice is meditation. If you meet people who regularly practise meditation their breathing seems very slow *natural* and relaxed. They seem very able to
cope. Meditation is far harder than pranayama which is merely a preparation for it. Preparation for meditation may also be in the form of yoga or physical
systems such as Tai Chi or martial arts. The people I have met who are into or have been into unsupervised Pranayama as their solo practice were always odd (in
a bad way - if you don't care about that or want to know who isn't odd etc - OK fine). People who practiced meditation were more attuned to something
beneficial. It also seemed they would 'drift into' group or supervised practice quite naturally and then maybe leave to continue again. I would say they were
assured of genuine progress. The solo pranayama practioners were oddities. Convinced that they were making
great progress (this incidently is one of the major dangers). Telling this to people does not put them off. They all think they can handle it.
You have been warned by the classics, you have been warned by people with greater knowledge and experience than you. You live in a free world. Nobody can
pass on wisdom to a fool. As you consider such warnings 'foolishness' perhaps you already are experiencing a classic symptom without even realising its
existence . . .
The Foolish Lobster wasting his breath as usual.
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 08:26:55 -0700 From: John Living
To: Mystress Angelique Serpent Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: healing Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In part of a private message, The Mystress wrote :
> Hello, John:
> Thank you for sharing this message..
> I pondered on it myself, and got that they are different metaphors for >the same thing.
> The technique you write of is one I have used before, and I agree it is
>excellent. It was called "integration", and involved getting the aspects of >the mind together as a committee, (creative, logical, etc,) as you have
>done, to find more positive ways of getting needs met.
> Time and space don't exist, so there is really no here or there for the >dark bits to go to. In asking the entity bits to rejoin the light, I am
>asking them to rejoin the ultimate mature thought form, within myself and >have their purpose transformed by limitless creativity into something that
>more ideally serves my highest good. Creating unification by giving >blockages up to limitless creativity to be transformed.
JOHN:
Imagine a series of boxes. We are (in this 'world' inside one box, where the
dimensions are 3 lots of length, time, and thought. Sometimes we escape to the next box, and find that time does not exist. And we assume that this
much bigger box is 'All that is', and do not realize that it, too, is a box.
But there may be even larger boxes outside that one.
A famous English Theophosist and Dowser determned years ago that the Pendulum responded to various substances by making a determinable number of
turns for each substance when the string was a fixed length (x), and that the responses were identical for string lengths (x + n*40 inches) - but with
subtle difference !
In the first band (0 to 40") all responses were as expected. In the second band (40 to 80") the respones were similar, BUT WITHOUT ANY
TIME FACTOR. In the third and higher bands (80" and up) TIME RE-APPEARED.
So it may be that a truly enlightened person became truly enlightened at the
next higher level, then he may discover time again - and perhaps 3 dimensional time !
John
J.M.Living, P.Eng., A wise old owl lived in an oak; 2731 West 11th.Avenue, the more he saw, the less he spoke;
Vancouver, B.C., the less he spoke, the more he heard; Canada V6K 2L8 he was definitely not a political bird !
Vox & Fax (604) 737-7456
"The Truth is out there !" - and YOU can find it by Dowsing ! Dowsers * Questers / Canada: "http://users.uniserve.com/~questers/"
Learn to use a Pendulum: "http://mypage.direct.ca/j/jliving/penlearn.htm" Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:41:52
From: Jeanne Garner To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Might be of interest Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>1999 Kalachakra Empowerment by H.H. Dalai Lama >
> Where: Bloomington, Indiana USA > When: August 1999
> > Sponsors:
> The Tibetan Cultural Center > Friends of Buddhism
> >The Kalachakra Tantra was taught by Shakyamuni Buddha. For 2,500 years the
>teachings of Kalachakra were preserved in India and Tibet. The Kalachakra has a
>special connection to the land of Shambhala and a future golden age of Dharma. In
>Tibet, the Kalachakra empowerment was done in public only four times per century,
>and at times of special danger. Although it is generally meant for experienced
>practitioners, it has a profound message for all people of this planet. For that reason,
>the initiation is traditionally given at a public gathering, and may be taken simply as
>a blessing, giving people the opportunity to establish a personal link with the
>message and benefits of Kalachakra. >
>H.H. the 14th Dalai >Lama will come to
>Bloomington, during >the last two weeks of
>August 1999, to >perform the
>Kalachakra tantric >empowerment and
>teachings. The >occasion will mark the
>fourth time the Dalai >Lama has presented
>this teaching in the >United States and the 24th time it has been offered over the past four
decades by the >14th Dalai Lama of Tibet. The Kalachakra, or "turning of the wheel" teaching,
>emphasizes universal peace.
Jeanne
==-* My stars! Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:36:44 -0600
From: "Christine Pincince" To:
Subject: please take me off the list. thankyou Message-ID:
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