1998/03/28 16:13
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #242
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 242
Today's Topics: Desire... [ tgxxxATnospamjuno.com (tg langston) ]
Re: undying love [ Mystress Angelique Serpent ] Re: Illogical Buddhism [ Ann Morrison Fisher ]
remove me from list [ "Samuel Abebe" ] Please remove me form the list [ Kronos ]
Re: What is Enlightenment? [ Druout ] Re: What is Enlightenment? [ Imtgxxx ]
Foolproof Test For Enlightenment! [ David Bozzi ] What is enlightenment? [ "Mark A. Collins" ]
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 12:45:06 -0500 From: tgxxxATnospamjuno.com (tg langston)
To: themacmanATnospammacsrule.com Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, butterbean6ATnospamjuno.com
Subject: Desire... Message-ID:
The MacMan writes: <I have been seeking this kind of enlightenment. I
wish to have no desire. However, at the same time, I have not only strong desire, but also strong ambition.>>
Hey MackMan...
Welcome to the list. As ACIM student myself, I have enjoyed reading your
posts.
You wish to have no desire. You wish to make a difference in the world for the better. Seems to me that it is a matter of looking at this
differently. As a Course student, you know that all things are neutral - one thing is no more important than another. You also know that we are
here to be truly helpful (whatever THAT means).
My question to you would be... are you feeling guilty or fearful over your ambitiousness? As if that is the *wrong* way to be - that it
couldn't possibly be spiritual because it is something you want to do? While we are in this illusionary world we seem to be in, all choices, but
one, are of ego -- do you choose Heaven or hell? Choosing hell would be choosing guilt and fear. Choosing Heaven would be choosing Love and
Peace -- what is it you would Love to do? If you want to be a MacIntosh Evangelist and it is something you would love to do, then dammit, do it!
Your *dilemma* seems to me to be like winning the Lotto -- Ohhh nooo, I have all this money and now the ego is going to use it for *bad*. But,
seeing that money is neutral, why not give it to God/Holy Spirit to use for His purposes?
You have certain talents -- are you going to supress them because you are afraid of what ego might do with them? Bah! Seems to me that you know
enough to turn it over to the Big Guy to multiply your fruits, rather than bury them and keep them for yourself.
The ego is devious in its way of keeping you from doing what you would
love to do. Just cause you would love to do it, doesn't make it bad! I seem to get the impression that this is what you are thinking. I could
be wrong.
What is your definition of Enlightenment? And is not the desire to have no desires, a desire? Are these desires keeping you in the future,
rather than the moment?
Like you said in a previous post, do you choose to be powerful, or happy? What is your definition of powerful? If you see powerful as ambitious
and of the ego, I can understand where you are coming from and saying this would bring on this dilemma in your mind. But as Angelique so
eloquently stated, ''why not choose both?'' All power is of God and we can claim it as our own. ACIM rather states "Would you rather be right,
or happy?" That is a statement of choosing happiness over defensiveness.
I love the chapter in ACIM on Trust (TM pg 10).... I meditated and
contemplated on this particular paragraph for years, as it seemed to contain so much wisdom, yet I just couldn't *get* it....
"Give up what you do not want, and keep what you do. How simple is the
obvious! And how easy to do!" (pg. 11-6.6)
"The idea of sacrifice, so central to his own thought system, had made it impossible for him to judge. He thought he learned willingness, but now
he sees that he does not know what the willingness is for. And now he must attain a state that may remain impossible to reach for a long, long
time. He must learn to lay all judgement aside, and ask only what he really wants in every circumstance. Were not each step in this direction
so heavily reinforced, it would be hard indeed!" (pg. 11-7.5)
So lets just skip *understanding* what all that means, and get to the gist of it. What is it you REALLY want? When you realize that, and
sometimes what you really want isn't what you think it is, then ask for that, and lay all judgements (guilt/fear/etc) aside.
<All of these desires are based on my Ego telling me that those
"causes" are important, and that I am the only one that can do them justice.
Who cares what your ego says - I don't. Are these things something you
would love to do? Then, again, do it. If you don't want to do it, then don't do it. It doesn't matter which way you go. God's Will for you is
to be happy. That's it. Kaput. So if doing something that _____
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
the ego is trying to make you feel is *too ambitious* or *not spiritual*, then do it
anyway if it makes you happy. If you are happy, God is happy. I am happy and the List here will be happy. I think I can be rest assured
that if you choose to do what makes you happy, that you will use it for the purposes it was intended for - you have a good spiritual foundation
from what I've read.
< My upbringing makes it difficult to just accept that there really is no
doing in this world that is important, and that the only thing that matters is the attainment of Enlightenment that brings my mind in tune
with One Mind.
And you are exactly right. Everything is neutral - nothing is important. So give up the undesirable -- the guilt, the fears. Keep the desirables
-- what would bring you love and peace. When you can be of One Mind, "where no thought opposes any other thoughts; no act belies your word;
and no word lacks agreement with another", you are of One Mind. It will be impossible for you to be in conflict with anyone or anything.
Right now, it seems as if your mind is conflicted -- I have desires for
no desires and I have desires for the desirable. And then.... I feel guilty for having these desires because they are *bad*.
<My ego tells me that in order to satiate these desires, I have to
fulfill them. My ego tells me that if I don't achieve them, then those "causes" will fall apart and die.
So thank the ego for its great wisdom, and do what you want to do. The
ego is making you feel guilty and fearful. Give it up. Who cares what the ego thinks?
<I know my ego is the antagonist of Truth, but it is difficult giving up
desire all together.
Then seek the Truth and you will be utterly astounded by it all.
<I could sure use some help...
I hope this has been helpful. If not, then never mind....
I wish you well, Love,
xxxtg
* Picking your nose when no one else is looking is still picking your nose *
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html
To: melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: undying love Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:29 28/03/98 -0500, melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu wrote: >I love this thread. The first time I ever saw "him" outside of dreams was
>in a deep meditation on plants. I intended to look for plants with certain >qualities and decended a very long escalator to get to a deep state. At the
>bottom of the escalator I looked around at the landscape and started >examining some little plants at my feet. I glanced up and was shocked
>beyond words to see this man standing there staring at me. I find this incredibly funny now ...
>--Liz
Laughter of spirit.. you took an elevator to get to your unconscious, and there he was at the end of it, waiting to answer your questions.
> I have been unraveling a curiosity lately.. someone asked to know more
about Armand, the male aspect of my self that I draw on doing domination.. I think of him as a past life.. and got me to thinking about him some more,
myself.. I have figured he was my male side, but I relate to him as a resonant inner self. He is remarkably independent, tho.. he goes visiting
without me. He is a swarthy fella, with long dark ringlets after the fashion, a moustetache, sometimes a beard. I have seen him young and
handsome, and old and sick and mad with syphilis... he has teased me that in his lifetime, he was whispered to be an incarnation of Lucifer...
serpent.. bearer of light.
I got to thinking, he is not the image of my "ideal man".. that one has a gentle face.. Bowie meets Sting.. slender wizard, blonde, green eyes that
change blue/grey with his mood. Exactly, I realized, like that very handsome gentle male face, with long blond hair I had identified as
Archangel Michael, some many months ago when it showed up during a "trip".
Seems obvious in retrospect, Duh.. but I put the pieces together in the shower, how neatly my light and shadow sides are manifested in my male
duality as Archangels.. the serpent and the sword.. if this keeps up I am going to have to toss in the towel and become a gnostic christian.. oy.
So I have been getting to know Michael better.. and giggling my head off
discovering the fabulous playful loving SM relationship he has going with Armand.. they've been playing good guy/bad guy forever.. LOL! I keep seeing
them standing together with their arms around each other facing me like old comrades.. lovers, friends.. the hero with his shining sword and the
sadistic nobleman in lace cuffs. The players, taking a bow between scenes. D'Artangnan and the Cardinal, staight out of three musketeers.. Archangel
Michael is better looking than Michael York, tho.. No wings, usually they look human.
The funniest scenes make full use of the fact that these guys are
Archangels.. they're immortal.. no safety precautions necessary... so Michael might let the train run right straight over him, after Armand had
him tied to the tracks.. Armand came back to stand over his bloody severed bits and did this wonderful gloating triumph speech.. it was so good,
Michael's severed head opened one eye.. then the other to pay attention appreciatively..
When Armand had run down they stood looking at each other for a moment, then they both bust out laughing.. Michael said "That was an interesting
sensation.. give me a hand up, willya?" Armand reached for his hand and Michaels severed hand flew up to meet it, and the rest of his body too as
it repaired itself with a flash of light.. Armand made a show of brushing the nonexistent dust from his back, then they went off arm in arm
discussing the high points like it had been a hockey game. I've tuned in on them in my mind in all sorts of places.. replaying old
Batman episodes for their/my amusement.. pirate movies.. once in a castle swordfight scene Michael lopped Armands head off.. so Armand did a fabulous
death scene, body and head rolling down the steps.. then gave it a gothic horror twist by coming back to life when Michael's back was turned, and
doing the rest of the scene with his head tucked under his arm like the ghost of Anne Bowlynn,(sp?) just to be funny.. they had a fabulous feast,
after.. broke bread together.. Armand put his head back on to eat. The amount of fun they are having, and the extraordinary love between
them between scenes makes me laugh till I cry.. so much joy. So, Lately the things that bug me, I have been turning over to them to handle, play with..
I trust them. I tuned in on them this morning, they were playing "Godzilla Vs. King
Kong", except with both monsters swapping wisecracks with eath other like spiderman.
That what happens, if you are awakened young with Goddess speaking to you thru Bugs Bunny cartoons and adventure stories in thousands of books..
thinking in the mythology of TV and the scripture of Marvel Comics. How many bizillion stories does my unconscious hold, with their threads flowing
down into the jungian collective? Lots. I seem to have my male side spit into two Archangels, having a blast
acting out the illusion of dualities, of thousands of stories and scripts. Gleefully rewriting them all into divine comedy, just for the joy of
playing their roles. Relationship.
I am beginning to think of a cartoon series.. Mike and Luci.. with their fem buddies, Mary the Virgin and Jezebel the succubus.. Mary always gets
rescued in time of course, coz like evey good fem heroine, she is sooo sweet even the villain hesitates to harm her, which turns into a whole
other kind of comedy.. jezebel's manipulations usually end up with Jezebel in serpent form being accidentally trampled by Mary .. LOL! "Oh, sorry!"
Mary says.. Jezebel just hisses and undulates in her way.. curses, foiled again, as the baked potato said.. remanifests into Morticia Addams on
spanish fly, turns into a bat and goes out the window.
I told this to a friend of mine and he said, "I'm sure glad it's just me living in my head, dunno what I'd do with a committee in there like you.."
Blessings, Mystress.
The web site you seek
>cannot be located but >endless others exist
> ---- Joy Rothke from Haiku > Error Message competition at Salon
> That is beautiful..
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:53:11
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent To: CttlemanATnospampsbnewton.com
Cc: madammumATnospamptialaska.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: undying love
Message-Id:
At 23:10 27/03/98 -0600, John Heaton wrote:
>John: > Very intense indeed. The consummate newbie here. Please be patient with
>my seeming inability to say hello or goodbye (they seem connected in >some way, just not sure how)
> Welcome Newbie John:
I suspect that the temporary inability has to do with some inner connections related to space and time.. they don't exist, so why say hello
and goodbye? There is only One of Us.
> I had the most amazing experience, and reading this brought it to mind. >I was lying down one afternoon, attempting "concsiousness expansion"
>exercises, I approached 'her' >and we began to meld, intermingling essences, indescribable acceptance
>and trust...we 'switched' identities, she bacame me and I became her, >both still aware of the other, and made Love from this perspective. Not
>a physical, penetrating sex...yeeeee, not ez to describe.
No, it isn't.. goes beyond the limits of words.. but your descriptions are sufficient to know that you are indeed describing the sacred marriage.
Blessed be.. What has been joined let no-one put asunder... say "thankyou my unconscious reverently 10x, have an orgasm.
> I wandered through the woods for a while,
>listening to the whispers of the trees (very wise they are!) and feeling >the Love of Gaia, the sun on my face, the caress of the wind...
Lady Gaia making love to you.. connecting with the feminine unconscious making all of perceptions a sensual paradise. Life has never felt quite the
same since, eh?
> I thought this would be easy to relate, now i find myself scattered in >the memory.
She has pulled you back into bed.. enjoy it.
> > A most amazing list this is...Thank you all for letting me share this
>and not feeling like the odd man out..... Isn't it? It awes me continuously. Don't feel odd.. we are a collection
of misfits, anyways.. strange bunch of winged creatures.. with oddly glowing heads.. and snakes living inside of us.. LOL!
> >
Thereby saving me having to write to ask you to.. much appreciated!!
>John: > The greatest insight is accompanied by the heartiest laughter! To
>realize a truth and be somber is to realize nothing at all! Yes indeedy, the truth makes you laugh, that is how to recognise it..
the voice of spirit..
Blessings, Mystress. Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:10:50 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, themacmanATnospammacsrule.com
Subject: Re: Desire/See Mac Go!!! Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
Glo Lee here sorta jumping with joy...Teegee wrote such an incredible piece of wisdom there.. this is all so lovely to eavesdrop in on. I see
that Macman already *gets it*, but golly, is it too late to just add my 2 cents, anyway??
> >Imtgxxx,
> > Thank you for such a wonderful post! It helps that I haven't completed
>the Course yet... Thanks for the clarity! >
> >
> >Hey Macman...
> > Spirit would be in your acceptance of it all IMHO -- Your
>acceptance of your desires, your acceptance of your wishes for no >desires - whatever.
ACIM states, would I rather >be right or happy?.... that is quite different that the word
>'powerful'. It is coming from a defenselessness state. >
> To me, and I may be wrong here, all choices while we are here are
>from ego. But if we look at it from that standpoint, we'd all be just >sitting around doing nothing because we were coming from ego.
Glo 2 cents: RE: the *helpfulness* as the key issue to decide by is
indeed useful..I mean if someone actually helps me..whether with ab physical need or by giving me some insight..do I really much care to
investigate the state of their ego?? How silly that would be.. besides, its never too late to renounce that ego from your past *accomplishments
and attained desires." It is some small consolation to me, anyway, as I look back on many "mistakenly ego-driven" actions and past efforts.. to
see that perhaps they were in fact helpful to someone else (and myself) - so where's the harm?? Only in having been mistaken..big deal. This is
what I loved about Roberto's : Dale gracias a la vida" ..don't thank me, thank life.
"It is only to the extent to
>which they are helpful that any degree of reality should be accorded >them in this world of illusion." (TM pg 10-4.6)
> >
> >
>YEEEEESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Sacrifice! That's what's holding me up! What a >rediculous concept Sacrifice is...
> >I will do all this, AND more... Because I find joy in the creative
>expression in many forms... >
>Thanks for the help! It isn't doing that keeps you from joy, it's the >Ego telling you that you can't or shouldn't do that keeps you from
>joy.... >
> >Mark Anthony Collins
>"The MAC Man" >themacmanATnospammacsrule.com
> >
Oh yes, indeed!!! Dear Mark, who told you that being and doing are so mutually exclusive in the first place?? Do you cease to BE the instant
that you DO something?? Even your ego wishes only to be understood and met with some compassion from you, there is no need to try to destroy
any part of you...try thinking of your ego a bit more kindly, like some naughty puppy who only wishes to be loved and does mean well, despite
the little poops on the rug.. He heh...Your original post of all the helpful ideas you were excited about just sounded wonderful to me..Go
and DO...then worry later who gets the ego credit.. (joking is very helpful... humor truly IS a saving grace)
BTW.. I am married to a long-time devotee of Macs..who feels Gates simply ripped off the software from Macs systems hardware, anyway. So on
his behalf, we wish you well with your Mac quest!!! Glo Lee
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 12:19:30 -0600
From: Ann Morrison Fisher To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Illogical Buddhism Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
"Mark A. Collins" wrote:
> So, I am at a point in my life where I'm attempting to do the toughest >thing ever: not to think.
> You don't need to work at "not thinking" or try to stop your brain. It's a
matter of where you put your attention. Your consciousness is a moving focus, and you just move it to someplace else.
Here's the way I teach it. First just think - no emotions, no astral
images. Then just think of one thing. Then just focus on one symbol.
You can practice this in one sitting by choosing something to think about and a symbol for it. For instance, "Love" - symbol: two hands clasping, or
a heart, or a magnetic field with two poles.
After you relax your body, begin to think about Love. Don't try to stop your emotions, just rise above them, higher into thinking. Let the
emotions go on, way down below you, just don't pay any attention to them.
Keep thinking about Love - and only that. When other thoughts intrude, focus on your symbol, rise up higher, and go back to thinking about Love.
Don't try to stop the other thoughts, just let them go on down below you somewhere, and don't pay any attention to them.
Then just focus on your symbol, rise up higher, and wait. Let all the
thoughts drift around way down below you, withdraw your attention from them. Focus on the symbol, wait, and listen.
Here's a little tip, an easy way to rise up higher. Decide on something
that evokes joy in you - a certain face, a certain scene, a piece of music (for me it's Beethoven's Joy Music). Then in meditation, whenever you
think of your Joy Symbol, you'll go up higher.
Love, Ann
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 15:19:17 -0800 From: Jerry Katz
To: E Jason , kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: What is Enlightenment?
Message-ID:
(A lengthy and important composition on Enlightenment, by Lobster, has been deleted.)
Hi Lobster.
Here is just a different spin on the question.
Namely, why would somebody want to know what enlightenment is? It is not
even a question. It is a declaration that hits the wall of understanding and shatters into other questions, such as "Who is speaking?" or "Why
are you wondering?".
It shouts back at you in that way. Often through guys like Ramana or Harsha.
Nobody knows who is enlightened and who isn't.
Love,
Jerry
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 13:54:14 -0500 From: "Samuel Abebe"
To: Subject: remove me from list
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BD5A50.FE8D5280"
Please remove me from the list.
Thanks
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kunda186" Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 15:07:24 -0300
From: Kronos To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Please remove me form the list Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I am going to take a trip, and I do not want to find 1900 messages or
more waiting to be read.
Thanks
Kronos Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:59:46 EST
From: Druout To: lobsterATnospamclara.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: What is Enlightenment? Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Lobster,
Isn't everybody, without exception, enlightened? We just don't know it.
Love, Hillary
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 15:11:43 EST From: Imtgxxx
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: What is Enlightenment?
Message-ID:
Hey, we've covered this before back in December. (Check Archives for further inspiration). So I'm reposting my thoughts on Enlightenment...........
. You always act the way you think an enlightened being should act.
. You always act the way others say an enlightened being should act.
. You transcend your anger by pretending it doesn't exist.
. You pretend and act as if you are a spiritual being living in a human body.
. You always argue with a fool so others will know who the wise one is.
. You know you are the chosen one (just like you always suspected).
. You tell others you are enlightened, so they won't forget.
. You have your Guru/Teacher on a pedestal.
. You realize that this spiritual pathway of Enlightenment is a serious one,
not to be taken lightly.
Did I forget any? xxxtg
* When all else fails, look on top of your head for your glasses *
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html
To: Kundalini Subject: Foolproof Test For Enlightenment!
Message-ID:
Foolproof Test for Enlightenment:
1.Check to see if you have or experience a body (gross and or subtle).
If you do you are certainly not enlightened.(sorry)
DO NOT PANIC!
You may repeat this test again. (Though no one has ever passed it)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:12:45 -0600 From: "Mark A. Collins"
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: What is enlightenment?
Message-ID:
I first want to say thanks for all of those who helped me get out of that "suffer to transcend" rut. It never becomes apparent until it's
disected by others... ;-)
It occurs to me that enlightenment is something that can't be earned. It is something that can't be learned. It is something that can't be given.
It is something that must be accepted.
Enlightenment does not require that you give up doing and desires. It does require that you give up limitations. The Ego's (speaking ACIM)
purpose for desire is to limit. To show off what you "can't have." This vision and interpretation of desire is what prevents Enlightenment.
However, the Divine interpretation of desire is that "YOU ALREADY HAVE IT!" You just haven't manifested it. Your reception of your desire is a
GIVEN, and all you have to do is know that it is.
If you choose the Ego's way, you will choose desires that you may not want, but you will never get anything. If you chose the Divine way, you
will always want what you ask for, and you will always get what you want.
Of course, many who are Enlightened already have what they want: peace,
joy, love. That is why worldy matters do not concern them. They are not saying that you must give up the world, they are just saying that when
you reach a certain level, the world looses it's value.
But if you find love, peace, and joy in doing, the JUST DO IT!
My $1.50...
Mark Anthony Collins
themacmanATnospammacsrule.com
"I don't have to think... I only have to do it... The results are always
perfect... but that's old news..." -- Kurt Kobain Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:53:07 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" To: peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re:Peswani's life
Message-ID:
>shahanshah......
>
>
>I feel 24 hours are short for a day. >
>IN MY BHODDHISATTVAHOOD AND PAIN I AM ALONE NOT OTHERWISE. >
>HOW COME I HAVE CREATED SO DIFFERENT IMAGE OF MINE ON THIS LIST. >SHAHANSHAH
My Dear Peswani,> >This is such a wonderful family you have!!! Thank you for telling us
about your life, too. The answer to your question is that we only know what you DO tell us. I know the topic here is supposed to be about
kundalini..but after almost a year on here..many of the regular posters do seem to become like family and friends. Getting off-topic seems to be
a popular pastime..is often quite thought-provoking...and what makes us become REAL to one another. If you cannot have some fun, what is the
point, anyway?? So, it is good to see you have such a nice real life, and so what does it matter who thinks you have boddhisattvahood?? Even
your own friends who see you better have different opinions, so try to understand how difficult it is with the variety of people and opinions
here on this list. I may not understand all that you talk about..but I enjoy to listen and learn from it all.
Thanks again for being so nice to reply to my question. I really like you Peswani..first you just say whatever you want..then
no matter how much people pick on you, you keep talking to us. OK?? With love,
Glo Lee >
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