1998/03/28 10:43
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #241
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 241
Today's Topics:
What is Enlightenment? [ E Jason <lobsterATnospamclara.net> ]
Re: ? [ Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net ]
Re: ? [ Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net ]
Re: sending someone to the buddhists [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: Desire... [ Imtgxxx <ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: chalta hai [ Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca> ]
Re: chalta hai [ Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca> ]
Re: sending someone to the buddhists [ Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca> ]
[Fwd: (no subject)] [ Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net ]
Re: Desire [ "Mark A. Collins" <themacmanATnospammacsru ]
Re: chalta hai (fwd) [ Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospambryant.edu> ]
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 97 23:46:05 GMT
From: E Jason <lobsterATnospamclara.net>
To: kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: What is Enlightenment?
Message-Id: <970327234605.n0003055.lobsterATnospammail.clara.net>
>Hi Peswani & Lobster,
>
>Have been reading your emails about enlightenment. Would you please define
>for me, as briefly as possible, "enlightenment." (Ask that others from the k-
>list jump in w/their definitions, too.) Thanks!
>
>Awaiting enlightening on enlightment,
>Michele
WHAT IS ENLIGHTENMENT?
First let us rid ourselves of some of the myths
concerning enlightenment. You are not all powerful, all
knowing, some kind of cosmic demigod. You are limited by
your body, you are limited by time and you are limited by
any sense of self importance you may have and the innate
imperfection of your own qualities. Those who have
superseded these limitations are outside of most peoples
experience.
It is however the second experience that is both real and
complete. It is therefore important to recognise the
perfection of your experience but the imperfection of
your own nature, which needs further refinement before
attaining to completion.
Enlightenment is not the solution to all your problems.
Enlightenment is the start of your possible progress and
not the culmination.
For those who think they are enlightened: Oh Dear! You
really are most mistaken. Nobody is interested in your
supposed enlightenment. Please keep it to yourself and do
not burden others with your presumed knowledge. Please
most humbly go away and reconsider.
Because of the lack of a real understanding or
exploration of the nature of mind-body states people
mistake all kinds of internal processes as
'enlightenment'. They may develop a concentrated
'samadhi' of living in the moment. They may be undergoing
hormonal changes, forms of mental illness. They may be
having a peak experience caused by a shift in paradigm or
life experience. The only real test is time. If the
central experience remains after a decade or more, we can
feel more certain that it is independent of circumstance.
Enlightenment is the knowing but not the interpretation
of that which is complete and perfect. You do not know
your self but it is the Self that is known. Enlightenment
is being without separation.
You do not become enlightened. Your enlightenment becomes
knowable and aware to you. Therefore there is no change
of mind but an inclusion of what is present. The
enlightened person is aware in a different way to others
and though of no greater consequence will be more
effective.
KNOWING YOU ARE ENLIGHTENED
Your initial response to your new mind state may be
flawed by your own inexperience. If you find enlightened
companions you may find they insist on not talking about
the things you feel are important. When the apparent
attraction of something loses that significance they may
then discuss these matters.
There are different stages and degrees of enlightenment.
The first and lowest degree occurs gradually or
spontaneously and may be independent of religious or
spiritual practice but may lead to more interest in such
matters. Unless the person is prepared, spontaneous
enlightenment can lead to great errors.
1. You do not have a mission to change anything
2. You are not special or chosen. You are merely
ordinary in a different way.
3. You are more enlightened when you realise that you
are equally not.
Gradual enlightenment is a more subtle process of small
accumulated impacts. The first stage is realised when
you:
1. Know that you know.
2. Know that your understanding is more inclusive or
holistic.
3. Now know the true nature and duties of life.
To those who would reveal their enlightenment it must be
said:
1. Do not! You will not be able to live up to the high
expectations that people have created in their
imagination for such individuals. Remain silent and carry
on as normal. Normality has the full range of experiences
to further your mature as well as nascent growth.
2. Those whose enlightenment has been revealed are
constantly bothered and hindered by the ignorant. This
spiritual outing is to be dissuaded and may cause the
wise to behave ridiculously.
3. You can not conceal your enlightenment from those of
similar or superior rank. Remember you have not come to
the end of your journey but the start.
You will find and it will cause you great amusement, that
those considered spiritually advanced and even
enlightened (usually by their own assessment) are quite
often not. You will also find those who are enlightened
in the most surprising places and intriguing guises. Some
may even occasionally be amongst the spiritual paths.
If you can find the company of the spiritually mature,
you will be very fortunate. Remember to go with their
direction rather than propose or insist on your own. They
know through experience what is best for the situation.
DOUBT AND CERTAINTY
If we can be sure of one thing it is change. If we are
endowed with a permanent transformation that is static,
we have stagnated. The very process of development is to
question the legitimacy of any experience. What if the
whole experience is merely the validation of altered mind
states as 'superior', when in fact they are merely
tangent? What value does enlightenment have? We must
apply ourselves to question our experiences. Truth is an
unfoldment, the central experience may be Absolute but
the degree to which we relate is an evolving situation.
This is one of the central problems of an Absolute
experience occurring through a flawed or imperfect
individual. By dropping back into conventional thought
modes or by deliberately adopting such a pattern we test
the experiences veracity.
The refinement of the person, the development of wisdom,
the inculcation of virtues takes time and many
enlightened people are not concerned with this or are
unable to implement a complete program. They have a
transformative experience but have no vehicle in which to
express or convey. If they do their imperfections create
an incomplete and flawed system of understanding.
For this reason an individual who has refined their
character may set an example that enables and inspires
but they are unable to finish the process.
The experience of distancing, sometimes called the 'Dark
Night of the Soul' or the descent into the hell realms is
the process of questioning. All ones certainty is
removed. Doubt, chaos, uncertainty, instability, physical
and mental pain without discernible cause may take over.
Aspects of the former self may come to the fore in an
attempt at dominance.
Such a process is not inevitable but should it occur, the
theist mystic will find solace in renewed religious
practice. Turmoil is part of a process of change, that
may have inner and outer consequences.
Lobster
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:45:10 -0800
From: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
To: Kundalini Mailing List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <351D1B06.2406FCA4ATnospamtransbay.net>
E Jason wrote:
> on 27 Mar 98, Harsha1MTM wrote...
>
> >In a message dated 98-03-27 10:44:48 EST, shawebbATnospamyhc.edu writes:
> >
> ><< Hey guys,
> >
> > Why do you pick on poor Peswani so much? It's like shooting fish in a
> > barrel. >>
> >
> >Harsha: I do because I love him.
>
> Lobster Love fish
>
> Lobster
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:45:33 -0800
From: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
To: Kundalini Mailing List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: ?
Message-ID: <351D1B1D.E26A6E37ATnospamtransbay.net>
E Jason wrote:
> on 27 Mar 98, Harsha1MTM wrote...
>
> >In a message dated 98-03-27 10:44:48 EST, shawebbATnospamyhc.edu writes:
> >
> ><< Hey guys,
> >
> > Why do you pick on poor Peswani so much? It's like shooting fish in a
> > barrel. >>
> >
> >Harsha: I do because I love him.
>
> Lobster Love fish
>
> Lobster
How do fish get into barrels in the first place?
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:55:45 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, dorf01ATnospammail.win.org
Subject: Re: sending someone to the buddhists....
Message-ID: <19980328155545.22310.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Subject: sending someone to the buddhists....
>
>
>we dont bite!
>
>may all beings find liberation from suffering and true happiness :)
>--some goofball buddhist wannabe on the Kundalini-l list
>
>
Glo Lee here:
1. We seem to be be already doing a bang-up job of "putting poor Peswani
to the test" right here. Hence, unnecessary.
2. There may be several incognito Buddhists already lurking here, not to
mention the wannabes.
3. I recently joined a Buddhist sanga and have yet to be bitten there.
4. Perhaps the Buddhists would actually understand our beloved Shananash
and we may in fact LOSE him to them..think on that!!!
5. How many more dharma doors do we need?? Why not one more just for
Peswani???
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:58:46 EST
From: Imtgxxx <ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com>
To: themacmanATnospammacsrule.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Desire...
Message-ID: <9cbef94b.351d1e38ATnospamaol.com>
Macman writes: << I have been seeking this kind of enlightenment. I wish to
have no
desire. However, at the same time, I have not only strong desire, but
also strong ambition.
Hey Macman...
Great to have you on the list - As ACIM student, I have enjoyed reading your
posts.
I can see this is a great dilemma! Oh my....
This is just an observation, but the wish to have no desire seems to be coming
from an ego standpoint too. So you have ego vs. ego fighting. Where is
Spirit? Spirit would be in your acceptance of it all IMHO -- Your acceptance
of your desires, your acceptance of your wishes for no desires - whatever.
Your desires and your wishes are in the future, keeping you out of the moment
where eternity and happiness lies, ie. ''I wish I were somewhere else other
than where I am.'' Acceptance of it all would be, ''I accept that I have
wishes and desires in this moment in time (and I don't like it, but here, God,
it's Yours).'' (something like that)
I would think you have to make a choice, one or the other, as the two desires
you have are fighting against each other, disallowing either to occur -- Do I
desire to eliminate all desire OR do I desire to go with my desires? As ACIM
states, you choose Heaven or hell - which do you choose? Like you said in an
earlier post, ''do I choose to be powerful, or happy?'' (or, as Angelique so
eloquently stated, ''why do I have to choose - why not choose both?''). ACIM
states, would I rather be right or happy?.... that is quite different that
the word 'powerful'. It is coming from a defenselessness state.
To me, and I may be wrong here, all choices while we are here are from ego.
But if we look at it from that standpoint, we'd all be just sitting around
doing nothing because we were coming from ego. What is it you would LOVE to
do? If it is both like you say, ask yourself which would be more helpful,
more valuable -- it doesn't really matter what you choose -- all things are
helpful -- "It is only to the extent to which they are helpful that any degree
of reality should be accorded them in this world of illusion." (TM pg 10-4.6)
It is wonderful when you finally *get* an understanding of the chapter in ACIM
on Development of Trust (TM pg. 10). "Give up what you do not want, and keep
what you do. How simple is the obvious! and how easy to do!" (TM pg 11-6.6)
You think you have to *sacrifice* something -- ie. your desires.... "The idea
of sacrifice, so central to his own thought system, had made it impossible for
him to judge. He thought he learned willingness, but now he sees that he does
not know what the willingness is for. And now he must attain a state that may
remain impossible to reach for a long, long time. He must learn to lay all
judgement aside, and ask only what he really wants in every circumstance.
Were not each step in this direction so heavily reinforced, it would be hard
indeed!" (TM pg. 11-7.5)
I meditated and contemplated on the above paragraph for years! No joke... it
seemed so full of wisdom, yet I could not understand. Then I *got* it. (LOL
- or maybe not! - doesn't really matter)
What is it you REALLY want? Think about that. Ask to see the truth of the
matter if you don't really know - sometimes what you think you want is not
what you REALLY want. Forget ego which includes all judgement that it is
wrong or not spiritual or going after materialistic things of this world is in
error. When you discover the Truth of the matter, what it is you really
want, then turn that over to the Holy Spirit (and of course with no judgements
on your part that it is *wrong*, blah blah blah).
Your guilt over the word 'desire' is overwhelming you. You might want to
change it to 'want'. ''I want to be truly helpful by doing this..... I give
it to You to use for Your purposes (rather than the ego's purposes)." (What
you do not give to the HS will be used by ego).
When you begin your path to your wants, of being truly helpful in whatever way
you choose, there will be no obstacle to bar your way, etc. etc.... You will
be *doing* what the Holy Spirit has you *do*, saying what the HS has you say,
going where the HS has you go.
<< All of these desires are based on my Ego telling me that those "causes"
are important, and that I am the only one that can do them justice. My
upbringing makes it difficult to just accept that there really is no
doing in this world that is important, and that the only thing that
matters is the attainment of Enlightenment that brings my mind in tune
with One Mind.
You are exactly right here. The ego thinks they are important - everything is
neutral. Give it over to the HS to use for His purposes. If it is something
you would love to do, then dammit, DO IT! You would be coming from a place of
Love then. When you do what you love, then your mind is in tune with the One
Mind.
Apparently you think you have to reach enlightenment first? What is
enlightenment to you? You may want to figure out your definition of that
first, so you know what it is you *think* you need to do before you can carry
out your will, which is God's will too. God's Will is for you to be happy.
Kaput. That's it. If it makes you happy to do all these things you want to
do, then do it. It is only the ego that is stopping you with all these doubts
and fears that it is wrong.
<< My ego tells me that in order to satiate these desires, I have to
fulfill them. My ego tells me that if I don't achieve them, then those
"causes" will fall apart and die.
Your ego is telling you also that you are *wrong*, that you are too ambitious,
that you are guilty of all of what you said above.
<< I know my ego is the antagonist of Truth, but it is difficult giving up
desire all together.
Then seek the Truth - it may utterly surprise you! What is it you want to
give up? I would think... guilt, fear, anger at yourself & others... all
those things that are not of Love & Peace. If these choices are causing you
any of these feelings, then you may want to look at the feelings of guilt and
fear, rather than the giving up of the choices at this point in time. With
acceptance and the letting go of fear and guilt, your path may be made much
clearer to you. Once you figure out what it is you really want, where "no
thought opposes any other thought; no act belies your word; and no word lacks
agreement with another", you will be of One Mind.
I hope this was helpful. If not, never mind.
I wish you well....
Love,
xxxtg
* Picking your nose when no one else is looking is still picking your nose *
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:21:00 -0800
From: Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
To: Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: chalta hai
Message-ID: <351D4D9B.52FATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
(Good and warm personal letter of length deleted except for last line:)
> HOW COME I HAVE CREATED SO DIFFERENT IMAGE OF MINE ON THIS LIST.
> SHAHANSHAH
Dear Peswani,
I enjoyed your personal letter. Few have a flare for conveying a clear
personality in this type of forum.
I always feel awkward posting publicly. But I've met some great people
through this list; bottom line, that's what's important.
Your life of family and friends sounds nice. Regarding your spiritual
development, I easily believe you.
Best,
Jerry
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 12:29:54 -0800
From: Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
To: CttlemanATnospampsbnewton.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: chalta hai
Message-ID: <351D5DC2.4249ATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
John Heaton wrote:
John:
> Hi everybody! I have been lurking for a week or two...what a WONDERFUL
> list! I feel however, I am in way over my head, but will do my best to
> keep running after the wagon...if I could only learn to fly!
Jerry:
>Let's beat this guy up. I mean ... he's probably not even enLIGHTened
> ... ... ...is it time for yogurt?
> John:
> ROTFL!...most definitly NOT enlightened...But with the likes of fine
> fellows like yourself it cannot be far off!
> Wait a minute, here it comes...I can see it...Nope. Sorry. It was a big
> gulp! (no cops) Maybe next time.
Jerry:
Moi? A fine fellow? Thanks, Dad ... imeanjohn.
Yeah, maybe next time! Right! Right! ... ... (anybody understand what he
said?)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:57:20 -0800
From: Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
To: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: sending someone to the buddhists....
Message-ID: <351D5620.440BATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
Debora A. Orf wrote:
>
> we dont bite!
>
> may all beings find liberation from suffering and true happiness :)
> --some goofball buddhist wannabe on the Kundalini-l list
Hi Debora,
Thank you. Hey, you're cool. Since childhood I have been drawn to Hindu
teaching, and in the last few years Buddhist texts: especially the
Diamond Sutra. I go to the Anglican Church often with my wife, and
synagogue once in a while. Visit the Gurus when they're in town. Have I
protested enough?
Love,
Jerry
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:41:02 -0800
From: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
To: Kundalini Mailing List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: [Fwd: (no subject)]
Message-ID: <351D281E.540CDC5FATnospamtransbay.net>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------75CDEAD1D0C5A4405BD026DB"
Message-ID: <351D1A7B.122E3CC2ATnospamtransbay.net>
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:42:51 -0800
From: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I)
To: Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
References: <Pine.OSF.3.91.980328142400.21402C-100000ATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
A lot of caps in your last post
> From: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
> DAN...
>
> When you first wrote about being enlightened. I did not
> wonder either way whether you were enlightened or not. My
> suspicion was that you had an epiphany not enlightenment,
> because true enlightenment does not receed after 45 days.
>
> SHAHANSHAH...WHAT IS ENLIGHTMENT IN YOUR DEFINITION.
If I could define enlightenment in words I would. I'll try to describe a little
bit. In my experience it's a discontinuity in thought--an ever lasting moment
where you see not only how everything is interconnected but also how it
inherently doesn't exist.
> AND IFYOU HAD NO EXPERIENCE OF ENLIGHTMENT PLEASE SHUT UP. :))))))
I think this is a silly request. Haven't you discovered yet that your thoughts
project to other people. Haven't you noticed that when you need a word of
advice or an answer to a question that was troubling you either consciously or
subconsciously that the next person you talk to will tell you what you need to
hear, enlightened or not. It should not bother you that I'm posting things
whether I'm enlightened or not.
> DAN......However, this posting leaves me no doubt. An
> enlightened person does not care about loneliness. An
> enlightened person has no trouble finding the same, because
> even among unenlightened people the enlightened person can
> commune with the potential for enlightenment within all
> beings. An enlightened person has no ego. An enlightened
> person does not worry that people don't understand them. An
> enlightened person can make people understand.
>
> SHAHANSHAH....ENLIGHTMENT IS AN EXPERIENCE. OTHEWISE YOUR ALL
> ABOVE STATEMENTS ARE CORRECT
> DAN.......You are alone and lonely because you have chosen this.
> You suffer because of your ego. You suffer because of your
> delusions. Your greatest delusion is that your someone
> special, a person around whom the universe revolves. The
> universe will keep chugging along with or without you Mr.
> Peshwani. There was a time before your birth, a time before
> your 'enlightenment,' all still moved along.
>
> SHAHANSHAH...I AM NOT LONELY NOR DELUSIONED, NOR AM I SUFFERING IN MY NORMAL
> LIFE BUT I AM SPECIAL AND LONELY IN MY BHODDHISATTVAHOOD . i LEFT MY
> ENLIGHTMENT WAY BEHIND.
>
When I took my boddhisattva vows, I never felt special or lonely. I could see
unspiritual people that could reach out and help people in ways I hadn't learned
yet. It's a path I follow. It brings me great joy.
How can you leave your enlightenment behind? There are only two permanant
things in this world Nirvana and change. Nirvana is unchanging and cannot be
left behind. My guess is what you left behind is a certain type of attainment.
In this attainment you glimpse emptiness and become free from all laws of karma
for a brief period of time. If you attained true ultimate enlightenment your
soul would be ever unchanging.
I hope that you meet a truly enlightened master that whups you upside the head.
You seem to be unable to do it to yourself properly.
Dan M.
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:10:53 -0600
From: "Mark A. Collins" <themacmanATnospammacsrule.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Desire
Message-ID: <351D2F15.62FCATnospammacsrule.com>
Imtgxxx,
Thank you for such a wonderful post! It helps that I haven't completed
the Course yet... Thanks for the clarity!
Hey Macman...
Spirit would be in your acceptance of it all IMHO -- Your
acceptance of your desires, your acceptance of your wishes for no
desires - whatever. Your desires and your wishes are in the future,
keeping you out of the moment where eternity and happiness lies, ie.
''I wish I were somewhere else other than where I am.'' Acceptance of
it all would be, ''I accept that I have wishes and desires in this
moment in time (and I don't like it, but here, God, it's Yours).''
(something like that)
I would think you have to make a choice, one or the other, as the
two desires you have are fighting against each other, disallowing either
to occur -- Do I desire to eliminate all desire OR do I desire to go
with my desires? As ACIM states, you choose Heaven or hell - which do
you choose? Like you said in an earlier post, ''do I choose to be
powerful, or happy?'' (or, as Angelique so eloquently stated, ''why do
I have to choose - why not choose both?''). ACIM states, would I rather
be right or happy?.... that is quite different that the word
'powerful'. It is coming from a defenselessness state.
To me, and I may be wrong here, all choices while we are here are
from ego. But if we look at it from that standpoint, we'd all be just
sitting around doing nothing because we were coming from ego. What is
it you would LOVE to do? If it is both like you say, ask yourself which
would be more helpful, more valuable -- it doesn't really matter what
you choose -- all things are helpful -- "It is only to the extent to
which they are helpful that any degree of reality should be accorded
them in this world of illusion." (TM pg 10-4.6)
It is wonderful when you finally *get* an understanding of the
chapter in ACIM on Development of Trust (TM pg. 10). "Give up what you
do not want, and keep what you do. How simple is the obvious! and how
easy to do!" (TM pg 11-6.6)
You think you have to *sacrifice* something -- ie. your
desires.... "The idea of sacrifice, so central to his own thought
system, had made it impossible for him to judge. He thought he learned
willingness, but now he sees that he does not know what the willingness
is for. And now he must attain a state that may remain impossible to
reach for a long, long time. He must learn to lay all judgement aside,
and ask only what he really wants in every circumstance. Were not each
step in this direction so heavily reinforced, it would be hard
indeed!" (TM pg. 11-7.5)
YEEEEESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Sacrifice! That's what's holding me up! What a
rediculous concept Sacrifice is...
I will do all this, AND more... Because I find joy in the creative
expression in many forms...
Thanks for the help! It isn't doing that keeps you from joy, it's the
Ego telling you that you can't or shouldn't do that keeps you from
joy....
Mark Anthony Collins
"The MAC Man"
themacmanATnospammacsrule.com
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 12:07:22 -0500
From: Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
To: Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
CC: kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: chalta hai (fwd)
Message-ID: <351D2E4A.79A5A468ATnospambryant.edu>
Peswani wrote and described his symptoms of enlightenment:
he will smell of perfumes. His tongue will have taste of nectar and his bowls (shit)
will be effortless, clear and instantaneous. he will have total control over his
internal body functions.Such and many more was my condition for forty five days or
so between June 94 and mid July 94.Harsha: I do not know whether to laugh or cry at
some of dear Peshwani's posts. Certainly many of these symptoms have been described
in Hatha Yoga texts. These are results of diet and special pranayama and/or
meditation and indicate good health. People who are other than "enlightened" may
have them. To confuse the body with the Self is not enlightenment.
> Dear Peshwani writes further: But I lost this enlightement, because a desire was
> creeping in to share this wonderful science of enlightment with friends and
> colleagues.
Harsha: Look, with your body smelling like perfume and tongue tasting like nectar
(plus other things having to do with calls of nature which I do not wish to
mention), you should have just kept quiet and made your wife happy.
> Peshwani wrote some more: And one day I sat for this awareness suniata meditation
> with detrmination to reach the source of this desire.I refused this bliss of sat
> chit annand and went deeper into meditation to end once for all this small desire
> creeping in again and again, so that I
> can end this desire once for all .
Harsha: What is all this business of sitting with determination, going deeper, and
refusing the bliss of Sat-Chit-Ananda after enlightenment? "Who" remains after Self
Realization to sit with determination, "Who" remains to go deeper and "Where"
exactly can One go! Truth of Reality that You are does not come and go! How can It?
Where would it Go!
O.K. Jerry Katz is right. We need some milk.
Harsha
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