1998/03/25 16:40
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #232
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 232
Today's Topics:
Re: bothered [ PEGLUMPKIN <PEGLUMPKINATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: I am that I am [ Geryl and Mark Waind <gandm.waindATnospams ]
Re: Language [ anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities. ]
Notes [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #231 [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
subscribe [ raptor <splackoATnospamkr.tel.hr> ]
undying love [ valeriec <madammumATnospamptialaska.net> ]
RE: PRANAYAMA-The Reality of Practic [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley ]
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, was: Fatig [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
RE: PRANAYAMA-The Reality of Practic [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley ]
Re: I am that I am [ Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: PRANAYAMA-The Reality of Practic [ Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospambryant.edu> ]
Re: PRANAYAMA-The Reality of Practic [ Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospambryant.edu> ]
Re: Illogical Buddhism [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: I am that I am [ "Solar Lion" <gtaATnospamlanset.com> ]
RE: PRANAYAMA-The Reality of Practic [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley ]
Re: I am that I am [ anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities. ]
RE: PRANAYAMA-The Reality of Practic [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley ]
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:50:47 EST
From: PEGLUMPKIN <PEGLUMPKINATnospamaol.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: bothered
Message-ID: <1f6a5e92.35196019ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-03-24 12:31:22 EST, you write:
<< the international campiegn for tibet sends me email all the time. This
time its about 6 people who are trying to get the UN's attention on the
issue of Tibet.
this is bothering me, and i guess it should, 6 people willing to die by
starving themselves for their people. Who wouldnt feel for them. >>
It helps to remember that the Dalai Lama himself has said that the Chinese
have provided the greatest gift of learning and growth for the Tibetan people.
He's looking at the really big picture. Although, I'll bet what little bit
is left of his individual ego would have gladly opted out of that hard lesson,
if given a choice. Oh but then again, I guess, at a soul level, he did make
that choice, as did those 6 people starving themselves. Peg
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:59:51 -0800
From: Geryl and Mark Waind <gandm.waindATnospamsympatico.ca>
To: Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: I am that I am
Message-ID: <35198BB4.4F27ATnospamsympatico.ca>
Druout wrote:
>
> Where does:
>
> I am that I am
>
> come from? Is it biblical? I've seen it someplace recently, and it was
> shouted at me a couple nights ago.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Love, Hillary
DEAREST HILLARY:
It comes from: I AM THAT I AM AND THAT'S ALL THAT I AM!
I'M POPEYE THE SAILOR MAN! TOOT! TOOT!
buckets of love,
Mark
ge da
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:16:35 -0800
From: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
To: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>
CC: anuragATnospamee.iisc.ernet.in, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Language
Message-ID: <3519661B.1E42E9C8ATnospamgeocities.com>
Anurag Goel wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> can I know how many of you can read HINDI?
>
I can read Devnagiri Scripts.
Anandajyoti
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:20:15 -0600 (CST)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Notes
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980325141114.13988B-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
the sun is shining today,
so are the trees
Thats nice.
Spring i guess.
Ran across a snake-oil salesgirl,
interesting sort.
Seems her oil gets
the snakes all moving upwardish.
hmm
been there, done that.
Nice place to visit :)
The coffee house that doesnt exist
tried to define enlightenment.
i dont know.
past/present/future
past is stuff done
present is doing
their child is future.
By the banks of a
sparkling river
fly some geese.
i walked there once
i walk there now.
--janpa
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:23:17 -0600 (CST)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #231
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980325142245.13988C-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 00:03:20 +0530 (IST)
From: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>
To: Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
Cc: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>,
Kundalini Mailing List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #222]
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.93.980326000128.29111B-100000ATnospamBhaskara>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi,
what i am able to make out from this is that one dissolves in to
universe.
Love,
anurag
sure its not the universe into you??
(gryn)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:34:22 +0100
From: raptor <splackoATnospamkr.tel.hr>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: subscribe
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980325213422.00a64b00ATnospampop.tel.hr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
subscribe
____/(______/|____/\_______)\____________
\vr!\_ . \ . | . > _> .\_ . \ Moving through whatever and whenever.. /
`~~~|_,_<_,_>__Y<__>\__/|_,_<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Latah!
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 03:23:03 -0800
From: valeriec <madammumATnospamptialaska.net>
To: CYBERMINDATnospamLISTSERV.AOL.COM
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com,
"<genius-lATnospamMyList.net>listening-l heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com" <listening-lATnospamzrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Subject: undying love
Message-ID: <3518E731.445ATnospamptialaska.net>
within us - not without us - a rather all-encompassing aura of vigilant
love presides.
we think maybe it is he or she, & attempt to personify it, but that love
exists beyond all libel & thwarted attempts at personification.
Because, simply - whatever happens in the manifest world is a concoction
& projection of past histories ameliorating themselves to concurrent
past histories. Everybody projects their ego upon the egos of everybody
else. That is how we see the world, without discretion.
but, I sense that endless & subliminal love. to direct it
unconditionally & personably is the task. we are all "in love" - this
impersonal & permanent love - no matter what!
some fabric of our very beings is based in the permeating & radiating
basis of the very fibre of life - this love that molds & melds together
the permeation of our individual existances, & is how we are all 'One'.
we are all one family on this planet. How can we deny that? why would we
want to? we are all connected in spirit.
betwixt the gaps, we each wish for personal glorification(s), but in
*truth*, we are all the same.
that means - we all project our needs for love unto our 'target lust'.
what kind of love is that?
it is selfish to impose our personal wants & desires upon another, &
have any expectations whatsoever.
we keep going deeper inside to become self-sufficient in that
impermeable & undying love.
That is what holds us together - both individually, & also as a
community & family.
It is important to find & adhere to that - just to walk tall & carry
each our own weight.
--
I didna make it to the top of the food chain to become a vegan!
****************************
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7982/index.html
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:06:28 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
To: "'hlutharATnospambryant.edu'" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>,
Anurag Goel
<anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>
Cc: "'Harsha1MTM'" <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>,
"930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe"
<930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe>,
"kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com"
<kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
"kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com"
<kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: PRANAYAMA-The Reality of Practice
Message-ID: <01BD57EE.D3695310.keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
Anurag Goel wrote:
> Hi,
> i have experienced that bhasrika can be a quick way of kundalini
> awakening . I am not saying that i have awakenend my kundalini
> through bhasrika.
> Love,
> anurag
Harsha: Yes, one may awaken one's Kundalini in meditation, and still
practice
Bhastrika along with Bandhas as one of the supplementary spiritual
practices.
Bhastrika is one of the most powerful pranayama exercises and indeed one of
the
more complex subjects just by itself. Kapalabhati is simply a preparatory
exercise for it. In Bhastrika the full capacity of the lungs (both upper
and
lower portions) is used. Other physical practices are combined with
Bhastrika
for the full effect. Yesterday Kurt suggested that Bhastrika could not
awaken
the Kundalini and cited B.K.S Iyengar as support. It actually depends on
how
Bhastrika is practiced and with what intensity. Mild practice of Bhastrika
is a
very helpful supplement to meditation but may not directly awaken the
Kundalini. But practiced properly with discipline under close guidance
Bhastrika can be very effective in awakening the Kundalini and even helpful
in
breaking of the three Granthis. To say that the practice of Bhastrika
absolutely cannot lead to Kundalini awakening is plain wrong regardless of
whether B.K.S Iyengar says it or someone else. A person may be well known
but
still may not have engaged in proper practice and therefore may not be
aware of
the correct nature of things.
KK rejoinders: I would like to think that with sufficient dialog we might
come to a better understanding of the role of bhastrika but comments like
``. A person may be well known but
still may not have engaged in proper practice and therefore may not be
aware of
the correct nature of things. '' hardly invites that. I think the proper
way of making a point is to integrated practice, classical literature and
the oral tradition. I think B. K. S. Iyengar is a reliable source of
information on yoga. I would not challenge him lightly but I am happy to
hear more about your position. If you have more to say.
There are many ways to awaken kundalini - I believe that with study and
practice and consulting with experienced yogins (and at least one yogini) I
have come to understand most of them. Nevertheless, I agree with B. K. S.
Iyengar that bhastrika does not awaken kundalini. The term ``bellows
breath'', I contend, is not just due to the nature of the exercise but due
the fact that it works like a bellows to fan the fire at the navel. But the
fire must be started to begin with. A bellows can change a tiny spark to a
raging fire, given sufficient fuel, but a bellows cannot create a spark.
Anyway, this is just my model based on what I have learned and experienced.
Nevertheless, perhaps I'll learn something today that broadens my model -
but it will take more than just a defacto statement. A pointer to the
classical literature would be a good start. Simply appealing to one's
experience is not because:
Drawing strictly on one's experience can be misleading. We all come into
this life with different karmic predispositions. There was a person who had
all the evidence of an enlightened yogin who claimed that the fastest path
to enlightenment was eating only fruits, vegetables and spring water. That
was all it took for him but that hardly means that diet is a path to
enlightenment. I can easily understand someone who's kundalini is already
awake practicing bhastrika and experiencing an intensified kundalini
experience as a result - I have experienced that myself - but that still
does not emply that bhastrika awakens kundalini.
My paper below discusses the role of Pranayama
and Meditation in Kundalini Awakening and gives appropriate cautions. It is
authoratative and based on my own experiences.
I'll respond to this in a separate post.
Kind Regards,
Kurt
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:36:44 -0600
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, was: Fatigue
Message-Id: <l03010d05b13f27dbc381ATnospam[207.71.50.131]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The email address I gave in Australia is not operative at the present time
and I can't find one that is _ don't know why. Sending some others.
There's an ME site (myalgic encephalomyelitis - the name for CFS in Canada
and Europe) with many links. Under lists you'll find CFS-L - that's the
St. John's list I used to subscribe to and enjoyed.
Fibromyalgia seems to be the same disease as CFS or a variety of the same
thing. Treatment for fibromyalgia may help but you have to be careful.
Exercise is prescribed, I think, and that's probably good when you're
feeling good and in small amounts, not pushing it, and especially a type of
exercise you've done before. If you were athletic before getting sick,
you're ahead of the game. But CFS people who exercise run the risk of
bringing on a relapse and being even sicker. Cheney has worked with
Olympic people and should know about this. Also, I hear the fibromyalgia
people offer therapy groups. May help you cope, but will not cure a brain
with punctate lesions!!
http://www.dds.nl/~me-net/meweb/top.html : many links here!
http://www.fnmedcenter.com/ccis/t_index.html : look for Stealth Virus
http://www.ccid.org/ : the Cheney Clinic
ftp://alternatives.com/library/hecfs/cf93laa.txt : article on the CFS brain
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:53:08 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
To: "'hlutharATnospambryant.edu'" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>,
Anurag Goel
<anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>
Cc: "'Harsha1MTM'" <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>,
"930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe"
<930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe>,
"kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com"
<kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
"kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com"
<kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: PRANAYAMA-The Reality of Practice
Message-ID: <01BD57F5.58770100.keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
Harsha said:
My paper below discusses the role of Pranayama
and Meditation in Kundalini Awakening and gives appropriate cautions. It is
authoratative and based on my own experiences.
KK:
I have hesitated for some time to comment on your web post. I did not know
how you viewed its content yourself. I did not realize that you considered
it authoritative. ``Authoritative'' presumes an authority - isn't it
natural to wonder - what is the authority? I presume since you have climbed
onto the high horse of ``authority'' you are naturally expecting others to
try to knock you off. I wouldn't want to disappoint you ;-)
In any case I hope you don't mind a few comments:
In general I thought that the post was a nice expression of a particular
viewpoint from within the tremendous panorama of opinions on kundalini;
however, throughout the entire post though I did not find the simple
description of how kundalini is most often awakened - through the union of
prana and apana. I think the post would be improved if you actually
described how the techniques which you allude to work to awaken kundalini
through the union of prana and apana. Once prana and apana are understood
then all the volitional techniques for awakening kundalini can be better
understood, but if these are not understood then one's practice is likely
to be ``hit and miss''. The yogic tradition abounds with metaphors for
this.
In your sections entitled (in
http://www.telebyte.nl/~frans/kundalini/harsh.html)
The Actual Method
And
Cautions and Comments on the Tantric Method
I believe that you stray outside what I would consider accurate and useful
information. I think that your motivation is great. When kundalini is
awakened sexual desire may actually increase - what to do? But I don't
think that the sections I named are headed in the right direction. It is
interesting that you brought up Agehananda Bharati. I did not know him
myself but I have several friends and teachers who did. Their story is that
he came to the Tibetans because he felt that he wanted to learn more about
``real'' tantra. I had always thought that this story was parochial - but
certainly his book * The Tantric Tradition*, that you note, shows an
incomplete understanding (although quite groundbreaking for its day) of the
topic of tantra, at least as I understand it. He wrote it fairly early in
his life. I doubt that your post relied particularly on this book but I
don't know whether the description that you give is what you have been
taught, (just as A. B. was taught), in which case I am curious about the
basis of the tradition.
Constructively, I believe that if you want to address the problem: `` When
kundalini is awakened sexual desire may actually increase - what to do?''
Then you must really instruct how to redirect the energy, in or out of the
act of intercourse. This is necessarily even more detailed than the other
yogic descriptions that you give. In the traditions that I study such
instructions are highly secret because ``It is easier to lick honey off of
a sharp sword than to effectively use sexual intercourse in the path.''
None of the teachers that I hold dearest - e.g. HH the Dalai Lama or Swami
Shivom Tirth, ever appealed to their own experience or knowledge as
authoritative. They, and others, always appealed to the wonderful breadth
of the experiential literature of the ages as the authority and presented
themselves as simply humbly traversing the path to try to understand and
experience it for themselves. They extended the opportunity to join them on
this trek and I have joined them. Personally I feel it very liberating not
to be an authority. Try it, maybe you'll like it.
Kind Regards,
Kurt
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:31:51 EST
From: Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com>
To: gandm.waindATnospamsympatico.ca
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: I am that I am
Message-ID: <1e31d232.351977caATnospamaol.com>
Dear Mark,
So now popeye is talking to me.
Wonderful!! Thanks alot. (I think!)
Love, Hillary
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:40:48 -0500
From: Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
To: "keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu" <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
CC: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>,
"'Harsha1MTM'" <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>,
"930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe" <930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe>,
"kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
"kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: PRANAYAMA-The Reality of Practice
Message-ID: <351987EF.8BF93F88ATnospambryant.edu>
Kurt Keutzer wrote:
> Nevertheless, perhaps I'll learn something today that broadens my model -
> but it will take more than just a defacto statement. A pointer to the
> classical literature would be a good start. Simply appealing to one's
> experience is not because:
Harsha replies: A wide variety of techniques having to do with the breath can
awaken the Kundalini Shakti including simply being aware of the breath.
Bhastrika certainly can be very helpful and awaken the Kundalini when practiced
properly. Since you wish to rely on support from other sources why don't you
look at Swami Sivananda's classic book on Pranayama and the one on Kundalini
Yoga. I can give you other sources as well. What other traditional Yogis have
said is consistent with what I have said.
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:51:03 -0500
From: Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
To: "keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu" <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
CC: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>,
"'Harsha1MTM'" <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>,
"930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe" <930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe>,
"kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
"kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: PRANAYAMA-The Reality of Practice
Message-ID: <35198A56.21BDE6D9ATnospambryant.edu>
Kurt Keutzer wrote:
> Harsha said:
>
> My paper below discusses the role of Pranayama
> and Meditation in Kundalini Awakening and gives appropriate cautions. It is
> authoratative and based on my own experiences.
>
> In general I thought that the post was a nice expression of a particular
> viewpoint from within the tremendous panorama of opinions on kundalini;
> however, throughout the entire post though I did not find the simple
> description of how kundalini is most often awakened - through the union of
> prana and apana.
Harsha: Quite right. I have said many times before that the paper is meant for
advanced students and assumes that basic knowledge of the literature and
processes is there.
Sorry Kurt but I have snipped the rest of your post as I did not find it as
authoratative as my paper!:-). Seriously though your reaction was funny. I
guess the word authoratative got to you...Sorry to have brought some pain in
your life today. I ask for forgiveness.....Harsha
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:12:34 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: janbarenATnospaminfase.es, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
Subject: Re: Illogical Buddhism
Message-ID: <19980325231238.15405.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>In a message dated 98-03-23 21:25:42 EST, janbarenATnospaminfase.es writes:
>
><< What has always amazed me is that only
> Buddhism offers this variety of full enlightenments - to me it defies
logic
> whereas Buddhism is said to be open to logic. >>
>
>Harsha (trying to suppress laughter): But they say variety is the spice
of
>life. In any case what is wrong with a little flexibility especially
with
>regards to enlightenment? And what does logic have to do with anything
anyway!
>
>Glo (almost never trying to suppress laughter)
With a certain non-attachment to views, one may also be open to
illogical varieties of enlightenment?? Defying logic - it works for
me!!! Some..like Thich Naht Hanh..say do not sit to become enlightened,
but sit to enjoy sitting...
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:18:51 -0800
From: "Solar Lion" <gtaATnospamlanset.com>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: I am that I am
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980325121848.007fd2c0ATnospammail.lanset.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Where does:
>
> I am that I am
>
> come from?
realization - the hermetic filtered into most of the
major mystical systems of the world.
om tat sat
the ALL in the all
the all in the ALL
Solar Lion (Bob)
-------------------------------------------------
Gateway to Awareness, Inc
http://www.lanset.com/gta/default.html
Metaphysics-Guided Meditation-Energy Work
ICQ uin: 2742596 Emerging Awareness
powwow solarlionATnospamyahoo.com
direct: solarlionATnospamlanset.com
E-mail Group - The Cobalt Blue Egg
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/cobalt_blue_egg
"Ye Old Metaphysical Book Shoppe"
Online source for Metaphysical Books
http://www.lanset.com/gta/frame.html
-------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:25:03 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
To: "'hlutharATnospambryant.edu'" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
Cc: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>,
"'Harsha1MTM'"
<Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>,
"930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe"
<930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe>,
"kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com"
<kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
"kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com"
<kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: PRANAYAMA-The Reality of Practice
Message-ID: <01BD5802.2F445C30.keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
Kurt Keutzer wrote:
> Nevertheless, perhaps I'll learn something today that broadens my model
-
> but it will take more than just a defacto statement. A pointer to the
> classical literature would be a good start. Simply appealing to one's
> experience is not because:
Harsha replies: A wide variety of techniques having to do with the breath
can
awaken the Kundalini Shakti including simply being aware of the breath.
Bhastrika certainly can be very helpful and awaken the Kundalini when
practiced
properly. Since you wish to rely on support from other sources why don't
you
look at Swami Sivananda's classic book on Pranayama and the one on
Kundalini
Yoga. I can give you other sources as well. What other traditional Yogis
have
said is consistent with what I have said.
KK: I'll check it out. But I've gone through this once before. Reading
Iyengar's comment and Swami Satyananda Saraswati (that bhastrika did awaken
kundalini) in short succession I then turned to Hatha Yoga Pradipika,
Gorakshashataka, etc. I did not find any reference to using bhastrika to
awaken kundalini in those works.
I think earlier you made a good point about ensuring that the breath is
drawn and expulsed very low in the abdomen in bhastrika. Kundalini can also
be awakened by loosening the know at the navel. This practice might do it.
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:19:36 -0800
From: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
To: Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: I am that I am
Message-ID: <351990FE.2670F5E7ATnospamgeocities.com>
> Druout wrote:
> >
> > Where does:
> >
> > I am that I am
> >
> > come from? Is it biblical? I've seen it someplace recently, and it was
> > shouted at me a couple nights ago.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Love, Hillary
>
These are the words of Jesus and also in the Upanishads.
Love
Anandajyoti
http?www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:32:50 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
To: "'hlutharATnospambryant.edu'" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
Cc: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>,
"'Harsha1MTM'"
<Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>,
"930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe"
<930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe>,
"kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com"
<kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
"kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com"
<kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: PRANAYAMA-The Reality of Practice
Message-ID: <01BD5803.45C55B70.keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
Kurt Keutzer wrote:
> Harsha said:
>
> My paper below discusses the role of Pranayama
> and Meditation in Kundalini Awakening and gives appropriate cautions. It
is
> authoratative and based on my own experiences.
>
> In general I thought that the post was a nice expression of a particular
> viewpoint from within the tremendous panorama of opinions on kundalini;
> however, throughout the entire post though I did not find the simple
> description of how kundalini is most often awakened - through the union
of
> prana and apana.
Harsha: Quite right. I have said many times before that the paper is meant
for
advanced students and assumes that basic knowledge of the literature and
processes is there.
KK: Oh, I see. I thought it was supposed to be introductory and
self-contained. My mistake.
Harsha: Sorry Kurt but I have snipped the rest of your post as I did not
find it as
authoratative as my paper!:-). Seriously though your reaction was funny. I
guess the word authoratative got to you...Sorry to have brought some pain
in
your life today. I ask for forgiveness.....Harsha
KK: Oh I was hardly annoyed at all this time. Well, OK, just a little.
I'm beginning to find your periodic slips into pedantry kind of endearing.
Personally I'd get more value out of less bark and more bite. I'm a little
disappointed that you are not interested
in responding to my comments regarding tantra. Oh well.
Kind Regards,
Kurt
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