1998/03/22 20:07
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #218
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 218
Today's Topics:
Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistres ]
Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistres ]
Re: God As Perfection-God as Perfect [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistres ]
Person Info [ "Hunter Lupus" <kafzielATnospamhotmail.com ]
RE: PRANAYAMA [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley ]
Re: street lights and K? [ Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: PRANAYAMA [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Ramana Maharshi+ Books [ Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca> ]
White Stone/Final Celebrity [ Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca> ]
Re: Gloria Greco leaves the list and [ Mary Ezzell <maryATnospamsonic.net> ]
Re: rebirth [ Mary Ezzell <maryATnospamsonic.net> ]
RE: PRANAYAMA [ Mary Ezzell <maryATnospamsonic.net> ]
RE: PRANAYAMA [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley ]
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:49:41
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: bobjonesATnospamco.tds.net
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980322164941.0e2784d4ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 15:37 21/03/98 -1000, Bob Jones wrote:
>Recently I have started having some involuntary undulations and
>trembling of my body while doing some focused visualizations looking
>at a picture of Christ. I am in an altered state at the time.
Sounds like K. to me... the undulations I call "serpent dance". K. goes
up a double helix spiral within you, your body is following the spiralling
energy within. Let it.
The trembling is the love energy clearing the fear from your being, so
you can realize you are cared for, as the lilies of the field. We call them
"Kriyas". Trembling is their simplest form. Relax, breathe, and just allow
yourself to tremble till your body's had enough.
> For the last 6 months I have also been experiencing lots of physical
problems (unusual for me). This includes extreme pain in my legs,
>kidney weakness, parasites, and a recent episode of sweating,
>shortness of breath and diarrhea. What is going on?
The K. energy is going to work within you, to evolve you into a "christed
being" ... mostly, discomfort is caused by resistance.. where are you
having difficulty surrendering to God-dess will for you? K. effects big
changes in every part of your being.. and change is stressful to humans,
even change for the better.. so Love causes stress.. and it causes stress
reactions, like lowered immunity, and stress on organs.
Pain in legs I associate with difficulties moving forward.. of course,
you haven't known what is happening with you, so you've been scared. Who
wouldn't be?
Kidney weakness I associate with the yellow power chakra under your
diaphragm. It is associated with life energy=breath, your personal will and
divine will for you. It is fed by gratitude.. count your blessings and
breathe easier. Parasites are a manifestation of "invasion by other", and
K. feels like that sometimes, eh?
I find understanding the metaphor my body is using to communicate it's
message with illness, sometimes clears up the illness altogether, but see a
doctor as needed.
K. sometimes induces sweating, diarrhea and hyperventilation as a part of
it's physical cleansing process. Like how a fever goes to work to burn up a
virus, your K. manifests these things to remove the toxins from your being
that are blocking the free flow of the energy. These effects are pretty
normal.. for a Kundalight.. welcome to the club.. :) Be sure and drink lots
of water.
If you are feeling really yucky, let us know.. there are many who do
remote healing on the list, and others will offer prayers, each in their
own way. "Wherever two or more are gathered" works in cyberspace, even if
those gathered are all of different faith systems. Love Is.
>
>How do I access list? Did I miss that info?
Info below. Have fun! :)
If you need more info, feel free to write to me at
kundalini-l-ownerATnospamexecpc.com
Love and electric blue K. fire, List Mystress.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Website <http://www.execpc.com/~libra/kund/kundgate.htm>
in europe <http://www.telebyte.nl/~frans/kundalini/>
**Unsubbing: http://aloha.net/~bpeay/kundalini/unsubscribe.html
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Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:52:38
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: bobjonesATnospamco.tds.net
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980322165238.0f8faa6aATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 15:37 21/03/98 -1000, Bob Jones wrote:
>Recently I have started having some involuntary undulations and
>trembling of my body while doing some focused visualizations looking
>at a picture of Christ. I am in an altered state at the time.
Sounds like K. to me... the undulations I call "serpent dance". K. goes
up a double helix spiral within you, your body is following the spiralling
energy within. Let it.
The trembling is the love energy clearing the fear from your being, so
you can realize you are cared for, as the lilies of the field. We call them
"Kriyas". Trembling is their simplest form. Relax, breathe, and just allow
yourself to tremble till your body's had enough.
> For the last 6 months I have also been experiencing lots of physical
problems (unusual for me). This includes extreme pain in my legs,
>kidney weakness, parasites, and a recent episode of sweating,
>shortness of breath and diarrhea. What is going on?
The K. energy is going to work within you, to evolve you into a "christed
being" ... mostly, discomfort is caused by resistance.. where are you
having difficulty surrendering to God-dess will for you?
K. effects big changes in every part of your being.. and change is
stressful to humans, even change for the better.. so Love causes stress..
and it causes stress reactions, like lowered immunity, and stress on organs.
Pain in legs I associate with difficulties moving forward.. of course,
you haven't known what is happening with you, so you've been scared. Who
wouldn't be?
Kidney weakness I associate with the yellow power chakra under your
diaphragm. It is associated with life energy=breath, your personal will and
divine will for you. It is fed by gratitude.. count your blessings and
breathe easier. Parasites are a manifestation of "invasion by other", and
K. feels like that sometimes, eh?
I find understanding the metaphor my body is using to communicate it's
message with illness, sometimes clears up the illness altogether, but see a
doctor as needed.
K. sometimes induces sweating, diarrhea and hyperventilation as a part of
it's physical cleansing process. Like how a fever goes to work to burn up a
virus, your K. manifests these things to remove the toxins from your being
that are blocking the free flow of the energy. These effects are pretty
normal.. for a Kundalight.. welcome to the club.. :) Be sure and drink lots
of water.
If you are feeling really yucky, let us know.. there are many who do
remote healing on the list, and others will offer prayers, each in their
own way. "Wherever two or more are gathered" works in cyberspace, even if
those gathered are all of different faith systems. Love Is.
>
>How do I access list? Did I miss that info?
Info below. Have fun! :)
If you need more info, feel free to write to me at
kundalini-l-ownerATnospamexecpc.com
Love and electric blue K. fire, List Mystress.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Website <http://www.execpc.com/~libra/kund/kundgate.htm>
in europe <http://www.telebyte.nl/~frans/kundalini/>
**Unsubbing: http://aloha.net/~bpeay/kundalini/unsubscribe.html
To leave the list send a post with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject header to
<KUNDALINI-L-REQUESTATnospamEXECPC.COM> for the List and
<KUNDALINI-L-D-REQUESTATnospamEXECPC.COM> for the List Digest.
The posting address for both lists is <KUNDALINI-LATnospamEXECPC.COM>
PLEASE!! Don't send text or image attachments to this address.
List Archives from 26/12/96 thru Reference.COM
http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/listarch?list=KUNDALINI-LATnospamexecpc.com
If you do *NOT* want your post archived include <X-No-Archive: yes>
as an email header or as the first line of your message.
*******************************
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:19:42
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: david.bozziATnospamsnet.net
Cc: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: God As Perfection-God as Perfect Awareness
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980322121942.0e27c1b0ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:30 22/03/98 -0500, David Bozzi wrote:
>Perfection is eternally intact. Can't be otherwise.
Blessed Be!
>The movement toward perfection is illusion.(as any time bound process)
>We are really becoming more aware of Perfection.
<...>
>But fire hurts and we learn not to stick our hands in it anymore.
>
>Burnt Fingers
>
>
At least, until we get past the illusion of fear that creates burns. Then
we may walk on it barefoot and handle it unharmed.
Blessings, Mystress.
Mystress Angelique Serpent,
Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
:D ;) :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :D :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :)
I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery
than live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it.
-- Harry Emerson Fosdick
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:28:59 PST
From: "Hunter Lupus" <kafzielATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Person Info
Message-ID: <19980323002901.828.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
1. Name
Hunter Lupus
2. Age
17
3. When did you first become aware of kundalini in your life?
20/3/98 as per AUSTRALIA
4. How long ago was this?
Half a week
5. What are some of the things you have noticed?
6. What has changed/is changing in your life?
Don't know enough!!!
7. Do you have any particular practices that you have found helpful?
Meditation and Mantra.
8. Are you involved in any service to others?
Not yet.
9. What are you hoping to get out of this list?
Useful information regarding private studies for me and
my friends.
If you know of any useful resources then please e-mail them to me.
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:17:07 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
To: "'Roberto Gonzales del Valle'" <930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe>,
Anurag Goel
<anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>
Cc: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: PRANAYAMA
Message-ID: <01BD55B6.57FC6710.keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
-----Original Message-----
From: Roberto Gonzales del Valle [SMTP:930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe]
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 1998 6:07 PM
To: Anurag Goel
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: PRANAYAMA
Anurag:
You wrote:
Have you practised Pranayama?
During Pranayama itself you will feel that your blocked
> paths in head has opened. Once one has control over mind and
> one's all nerve paths are opened ina sense that the life force
> flows in.
>Love,
>anurag
>
I am very ienterested on this. I haven?t heard about it. Once I experieced
full awareness of my nevous and energetic system while could actually feel
it?s cleansing and prurifiying. I became tuned in with nature and felt good
about the contact between myself and everything for a while. But that
hasn?t
happened to me again. And diferent situations have led me to "gain the
weight" and burden "over my shoulders again.
Could you or someone else please explain me what Pranayama is about? Texts
are very hard to find here in Lima-Peru, so I would really aprectiate a
title on a reliable book as well to order it on the internet.
Thanks
Roberto.
KK: I have tried to disambiguate the relationship between pranayama and
kundalini in:
http://www.spiritweb.com/Spirit/Yoga/kundalini-yoga.html
Briefly, some pranayamas work to purify the channels or nadis. Some
pranayamas work more forcefully to awaken the kundalini more directly.
As in all areas related to kundalini there is some disagreement regarding
the division of pranayamas into these two categories. Kapalabathi (the
bellows breath) is considered by some to awaken the kundalini (e.g. Swami
Satyananda Saraswati) while others disagree (B. K. S. Iyengar).
If you read enough and hear enough cautions you'll begin to wonder if it is
safe to breathe at all! However, awakening kundalini through breath can be
very straightforward and easy. You need to learn to recognize what the
prana breath is. That's pretty easy - take a deep breath - feel better?
Why? Because of prana. Then you need to recognize the apana breath. That's
a little harder. Take a big dump (not sure what the Peruvian euphemism for
this is). Feel better? Why? Through the power of apana. If you learn to
unite these two breaths (yes, a teacher will be very valuable) you will
awaken the Surya, the fire, and that fire will awaken kundalini. That's the
real pranayama. A teacher will help, but no teacher can demonstrate this
for you exactly because it is in your own internal processes.
Good luck
KUrt
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:46:50 EST
From: Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com>
To: acarreATnospamconcentric.net, rtrevATnospamredsuspenders.com
Cc: sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: street lights and K?
Message-ID: <8dc24615.3515bf0dATnospamaol.com>
Or open your eyes to what is Not!
Love, Hillary
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:47:41 EST
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu, 930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe,
anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: PRANAYAMA
Message-ID: <405e2df4.3515bf40ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-03-22 20:14:28 EST, keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu writes:
<< If you read enough and hear enough cautions you'll begin to wonder if it is
safe to breathe at all! However, awakening kundalini through breath can be
very straightforward and easy. >>
Harsha: The cautions are real and are meant for those who wish to practice
breath retention. It is not uncommon for some advanced students to gradually
develop the capacity to retain the breath after having inhaled (retention can
be increased to 3 minutes or much longer than that). This has a profound
effect on the brain and the nervous system. Bandha Traya and other such
practices are not meant for most people and indeed may be potentially harmful
if not done carefully without following certain restrictions. As far as
awakening the Kundalini being straightforward and easy through breath; I would
say if this is so then it must be equally straightforward and easy through
pure meditation as well. Prana indeed may be controlled purely by mental means
without resort to heavy duty breathing methods. Ultimately the technique is
much less important than the dedication to practice and the devotion to the
spiritual life. This is not meant to disagree with Kurt, only to clarify
......Harsha
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:35:29 -0800
From: Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
To: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>, harsha1mtmATnospamaol.com,
kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, stuartfATnospamdimensional.com
Subject: Re: Ramana Maharshi+ Books
Message-ID: <3515CA71.53F0ATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
anandajyoti wrote:
>
> Dear Stuart !
> You may try out the following:
> 1. Teachings of Ramana Maharshi
> 2.Ramana maharshi and the path of Self Knowledge
> 3.The collected works of Ramana Maharshi
> all edited by Arthur Osborne published by Samuel Weiser Inc, York Beach, Maine. USA.
> All copyrighted by Ramanashram , India, in 1962
> It could be helpful.
> Ananndajyoti
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
>
> Stuart wrote:
>
> > Harsha1MTM wrote:
> >
> > > My favorite is "Talks with Ramana Maharshi" recorded between
> > > 1935-1939.
>
> Stuart>
>
> > I'll have to look around for this one, Amazon doesn't seem to have it listed. Can
> > you recommend any other of his titles?
> >
> > Peace
> > Stuart
Jerry writes:
I just want to add that Society for Abidance in Truth has one of the
best web sites anywhere and offers dozens of books by and about Ramana
and other nondual Masters. Visit them at http://www.satramana.org/
There is a lot there, not only books for sale. You can find the entire
Ashtavakra Gita, and three chapters of the Ribhu Gita and writings and
talks by Ramana.
For more on Ramana visit http://www.sentient.org/amber/index.html
Go to Newsletter and you will find a newsletter called Maharshi.
Available for downloading are several years copies of this Ramana
newsletter. Here you will also meet many other masters of the nondual,
ones who revere Ramana.
Best,
Jerry
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:03:09 -0800
From: Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
To: david.bozziATnospamsnet.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: White Stone/Final Celebrity
Message-ID: <3515C2DD.6C9CATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
> Jerry Katz wrote:
>
> > I do not claim To Know, but I have heard that the white stone says upon
> > it, I AM.
David wrote:
> White for pure.Stone for enduring.(eternal).
> Both with respect to awareness.
> Eternal Life.
Jerry:
Thank you. Additionally, it is...
I AM or OM.
The white is the white of The Aleph: All That Is, All At Once.
The stone is Truth.
What is written upon the stone can be told, but its understanding takes
more than telling.
It is said that only One has ever seen what is written upon the stone.
When one knows I AM, it is plain that there only is One.
It is why I have said I am the Final Celebrity. Jerry Katz is not the
final celebrity; he's just some guy bumbling along. I AM is the final
celebrity.
White Stone, Final Celebrity. Whether we go out or stay in, we see
images of celebrities everywhere. And you don't have to watch television
or go to movies to be surrounded by celebrities. Look at art work or at
what's right in front of you. It's endless. Many years ago they saw
stones everywhere. Today we see celebrities.
There is a Final Celebrity. That one has a name. When you know who it is
you will have overcome all obstacles. Who is the Final Celebrity?
Best,
Jerry Katz
P.S. If you're still up for hearing more about the White Stone, go to my
web site at http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/umbada and click on White Stone.
I cover stuff on the symbolism and other ins and outs.
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:47:56 -0800
From: Mary Ezzell <maryATnospamsonic.net>
To: lodpressATnospamintercomm.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Gloria Greco leaves the list and sends love to all
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980322184746.00b57f64ATnospampop.sonic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Gloria Greco,
Thank you so much for the time and energy you gave to the k list. YOu are a
wonderful person and I wish you very well. Hope your schedule permits
return soon.
Please keep in touch.
Love and light,
Mary Ezzell
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:00:29 -0800
From: Mary Ezzell <maryATnospamsonic.net>
To: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>,
Gaurav Asthana <gauravATnospamlw1.vsnl.net.in>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: rebirth
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980322185123.00b59c04ATnospampop.sonic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thank you for the reminder. Sometimes I feel as tho k had slowed down or
gone away or was in the past, and I would be 'on my own' in Bardo and the
next life. But your post made me see it differently. Perhaps the time
between bodies is when K would be most powerful.
Namaste,
Mary
-----------------------------------------------
At 09:45 PM 3/22/98 +0530, Anurag Goel wrote:
>
>Hi,
> Rahul I think what you are saying below should be true.
>
>love,
>anurag
>
>> Kundalini is a vehicle not for
>> this life only but it may mould ones next lives also depending on it's
>> intensity of thrust and one's karma in this life.Kundalini and karma have
>> to be taken into account together to get the picture of things to come.
>> with love,
>> Rahul
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:00:31 -0800
From: Mary Ezzell <maryATnospamsonic.net>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: PRANAYAMA
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980322185938.00b59c04ATnospampop.sonic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
IMO the best books are the Primers put out by Baba Hari Das ashram in Mt.
Madonna, near WAtsonville, California, USA. I think the titles are ASTANGA
YOGA PRIMER or HATHA YOGA PRIMER.
Iyengar wrote LIGHT ON YOGA and another book LIGHT ON PRANAYAMA. They both
seem very good to me. But my pranayama teacher said she did not like
Iyengar's, becuse he said pranayama was difficult. She says pranayama is
very easy, and I agree.
I wonder if Iyengar's k was awake??? :-)))
Probably us who have k, will find pranayama much easier than he did.
I was never able to do the sort where you have to hold the breath while
counting to some number. I think that is a strain. Hari DAs' books have
much easier methods where the timing does not matter at all.
Namaste,
Mary
------------------------------------------------------
At 09:27 PM 3/22/98 +0530, Anurag Goel wrote:
>
>Hi Roberto,
> Your becoming aware of nervous and energetic channels is a
> beautiful experience. I think through pranayama you will be
> able to experience that again. PRANAYAMA are basically
> breathing exercices. There are some 10-12 breathing exercices
> under pranayama. If you can find a Yoga teacher then it will
> be better if you start under his/her guidance. Someone told
> me that NETI one more yoga exercise will also be helpful in
> kundalini raising. I haven't read any yoga book as such.
>
> May be anadajyoti, harsh or others will be able to help you
> out.
>
> I remember that there is a YOGA book by B.K. IYENGAR. I don't
> have the title.
>
> May be you can get something from this site
>
> www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1863/index.html
>
>Love,
>anurag
>
>
>
>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:10:11 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
To: "'Harsha1MTM'" <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>,
"930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe"
<930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe>,
"anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in"
<anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>
Cc: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
"'keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu'" <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: PRANAYAMA
Message-ID: <01BD55C6.23D61480.keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
Kurt says:
For some time I have been revising my view as to whether awakening
kundalini is inherently dangerous and as to whether particular techniques
for awakening kundalini are dangerous. Over time I've come to believe that
the danger is more latent in the individual than in the methods.
>From a psychological perspective when you awaken kundalini you activate
your unconscious. The same thing occurs in mental illness. If one's psyche
is capable of handling the unconscious content this is fine. If it is not
then something very akin to mental illness, and in the extreme, psychoses,
can occur. That comes with the territory. So after observing kundalini
practitioners, and inadvertent kundalini awakenings, for a long time, my
working hypothesis is that some people are better suited to handle
kundalini awakening than others - and this, and not the safety of the
techniques used to perform the awakening, is the primary issue. I say this
as someone who was not very ready for my kundalini when the awakening
began.
Now, as to the question as to whether some practices are dangerous. I said:
<<KK: If you read enough and hear enough cautions you'll begin to wonder
if it is
safe to breathe at all! However, awakening kundalini through breath can be
very straightforward and easy. >>
And Harsha responded: The cautions are real and are meant for those who
wish to practice
breath retention. It is not uncommon for some advanced students to
gradually
develop the capacity to retain the breath after having inhaled (retention
can
be increased to 3 minutes or much longer than that). This has a profound
effect on the brain and the nervous system.
KK: Now we have a few issues going. First of all I would be very interested
to learn as to where yogins routinely extended their breath retention
capacity beyond 3 minutes - if that is what you meant. Such a feat is rare
in my experience.
Secondly - There are indeed a wide variety of mental and physical illnesses
that can occur as the result of improper and over zealous pranayama, or
meditation for that matter. No disagreement there.
Thirdly, My point was different however. I believe that kundalini can be
easily awakened through breath without danger. That is not quite the same
as saying all pranayama practices are not dangerous. It's the difference
between ``there exists a safe way of awakening kundalini through
pranayama'' vs. ``all pranayama practices are not dangerous''. I don't
think that holding your breath for 3 minutes is necessary to awaken
kundalini - even when you awaken it through breath. In kumbhaka pranayama
the point is to mix apana and prana - that is correlated with but not
strictly caused by retention.
Harsha continues: Bandha Traya and other such
practices are not meant for most people and indeed may be potentially
harmful
if not done carefully without following certain restrictions.
KK: 3HO people teach Bandha Traya pretty widely and I have never heard of a
problem with it. They even put it in their published ``how to'' manual.
Harsha: As far as
awakening the Kundalini being straightforward and easy through breath; I
would
say if this is so then it must be equally straightforward and easy through
pure meditation as well. Prana indeed may be controlled purely by mental
means
without resort to heavy duty breathing methods.
KK: I agree with the sentiment if not the logic. I think the situation is
like this: Due to genetics, or karmic propensities, or something - some
people will find some techniques easier than others. In the Tibetan
tradition Tsong Khapa encourages pure meditation. At the other extreme some
Tibetans of other orders will leap into the air, cross their legs in full
lotus and then land on the ground. In hatha yoga this practice is known as
Mahavedha. I wouldn't say that one group is strictly more successful than
the other in awakening kundalini. When you say in your writing: `` However,
for most
people, awakening this great power through meditation is easier, more
effective, and is much safer than by forcing it to awaken by advanced
pranayama
involving breath retention. ''
KK: I think that is true for some people - and not for others. Some people
will find one or the other easier. ALSO, I have seen more ``kundalini
basket cases'' in the TM movement than in any other- TM is an ostensibly
harmless meditation practice with no pranayama. Thus my original point on
danger.
Harsha: Ultimately the technique is
much less important than the dedication to practice and the devotion to the
spiritual life. This is not meant to disagree with Kurt, only to clarify
KK: Yes, that sounds fine to me. But just to balance the view (or be
ornery) - some people are quite dedicated but without the proper technique
their spiritual life becomes dry and lifeless. Sincere dedication and
effective yogic practice are best when linked. I'm sure you'd agree ;-)
Kind Regards, Kurt
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