1998/03/20 07:34
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #208
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 208
Today's Topics: Re: Make My Day [ "Jan Barendrecht" ]
Re: God As Perfection-God as Perfect [ E Jason ] Re: dynamic migraine? [ Anurag Goel ]
K Mailing list [ "Alan Byron" ] Re: Reasonably good reason is . . . [ "Orea de Sa' Hana" ]
Prannothana? [ Stuart ] Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 01:59:00 -0000
From: "Jan Barendrecht" To:
Subject: Re: Make My Day Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00EB_01BD53A3.C068A4E0"
-----Original Message-----
From: valeriec To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: listening-l atlantisATnospamangus.mystery.com ; friends CYBERMINDATnospamLISTSERV.AOL.COM Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 6:15 AM
Subject: Make My Day
>great! >so we have targetted our president as a liar & a cheat with women &
>henpecked him maliciously for all the world to see, right at a time when >we are trying to balance impending worldwide anthrax poisoning &
>militant Middle East terrorists, That really makes a lot of sense to me! >People disdain "the American lifestyle" in the world so much already;
>this is just 'icing on the cake'.
Observing the likes/dislikes worldwide, actually the American lifestyle is considered great - the "American dream" is working very suggestive. Some are just being jealous - in reality they want "American lifestyle with minor modifications"
>I am embarrassed, & furthermore, even humiliated, by a system which so
>publically, & so corruptly, is "biting off it's nose just to spite it's >face". what a stupid ass dumb thing to do!
Corruption is the name of the game everywhere. In Europe, a president is allowed all the mistresses he wants, he can even divorce and marry a mistress - no questions asked as long as he keeps functioning OK. In Europe, we don´t have a legal system that provides a lot of cash - you can´t make a lot of money by suing the president. In the USA, publicity means big money - much less so in Europe (unless you´re a celebrity like lady Di of course). The UK had its sex-scandal (Profumo affair) somewhere in the sixties - then, it was a big deal. In some African countries, the king has a harem - a guarantee that a sex-scandal never develops. The same goes for some Islamic countries. In all Islamic countries, a man can have as many as four wives, if he can provide adequate maintenance for them.
>we are a whole WORLD full of people, not just you or me! People are >starving & dying & Afghanistani's being murdered unjustly by their
>government, & on the brink of imminent worldwide disasters with floods, >pestilences, famines, tornadoes, mudslides, & VERY REAL CONCERNS!!!
>what Clinton did or did not do or why - sexually - should be none of our >concern! The man is in possibly THE MOST POWERFUL POSITION IN THE WORLD
Some consider messing around with sex as a guarantee for other "messy" affairs - I vaguely remember the sequence is sex first, then money, with money you buy power, which reminds me of fund-raising... Thanks to the failure of finishing the Gulf war properly, many Iraqis are dying but Saddam is living. Disasters are great for construction-companies etc. - a lot of money can be made.
>to see us thru this mess, & I believe we need to clear the forest here, >so we can see the trees!
Thanks to the habit of meat-consumption, one can calculate when, for instance in Brazil, no single tree will be left.
>Potty-brained, pea-minded SELFISH people who take this time to thwart >their frustrations by concentrating on the sensationalism created by the
>media, at this CRUCIAL time when people are dying, & cannot see clear to >support the
>*WHAT IS*, are gonna murder this planet.
The planet is practically dead already. As long as "big money" can be made, no one will admit it. Selfishness got a big boost with the "American way of life" becoming the world-standard of living. When everyone would adopt the American way of meat-eating, calculation shows that another planet earth is required, consisting only of meadows with cows. People have been dying all the time. Sending toys to the moon and Mars is far more important than providing self-sufficiency for the needy at home and third world countries. The selfish version of religion considers being poor and needy " God´s punishment" or simply karma. Blessed are the rich ones. How convenient.
>It *is* - what *it is*. And it is definitely infinitudes larger that the
>power of Clinton's sex drive; which is not our business anyway! That is >between him & his wife & God.
>Think this thought - Al Gore might be just in time for the next >election!
>Get your brains outta your potties! >Who cares about sex - when 'life or death' is this imminent???
>have a nice day! >:-)
>vc >
Clinton´s sex drive is very much the business of the media - it´s big money that can be made easily and making money easily is the very foundation of the great "American way of life". As such, it is even "holy". IMO, it was started with the various cheats and treason of native Americans. Had they been in charge of North America, this planet would have been alive in stead of dying and there wouldn´t be sex-hungry presidents. Many natives world-wide still possess a few commodities, almost completely missing in the "civilized" whites: dignity and feeling connected to nature. The natives could survive for many hundreds of years - unless a miracle happens, "we" won´t. I hope this will provide some food for thought.
Jan
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kunda163"
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:38:57 -0600 (CST) From: "Debora A. Orf"
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: gurus redux
Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:13:26 -0000
<This story was unknown to me. Yet, it seems the story only proves my point:
Would Angulimala have become Buddha´s disciple without his unconditional surrender to a "false" Guru? As travel in those days-gone-by wasn´t that
fast, it is realistic to assume that Buddha was in the neighborhood all the time; so the story is just another way of showing the superiority of Buddha,
being capable of converting even mass-murderers.>>
Angulimala really did think he was doing the right thing here. After all, Guru said too. I dunno, perhaps if he'd questioned, it would have come out
that since he refused to sleep with his Guru's wife (She had a disasterous desire for the monk who became Angulimala), she set him up.
One thing that also comes to mind in this story is pride. Knowing what the
guru has in mind, one may think this is so, but if you are a beginner like me, how can you be sure? Ask Questions! Pride may keep me from doing this,
then that is my downfall, my disaster.
< Considering the inherent
exaggeration of the East (1000 killed) as compared to the West, the story reminds me of Jesus, accepting a murderer on the cross as a disciple.
Really, getting rid of Angulimala could have been much easier. Offering poisoned food would have done the job most effectively. As the story goes,
it seems even Buddha died because of food poisoning. Buddha was even able to explain the "way of achieving union with Brahman" and the behavior required
for it - you know the sutra of course. >>
Actually i dont know that sutra. What is its name? And is it in English?
<No present day Buddhist can perform this feat anymore. No doubt you are familiar with Marpa the translator
(Tibetan Buddhism). He was the guru of Milarepa. Yet, Marpa wasn´t a perfect guru: as a result of an error he lost a son. So, do you really suggest that
Milarepa should have left his Guru because of this flaw?>>
Milarepa knew Marpa from a past life, so his confidence was already there.
< Of course evaluating is important, so let´s go. Among others, the guru should be
"overflowing" with love/compassion - this can be perceived immediately. If the guru is "overflowing", his behavior must be accordingly: among many
others, not causing any harm (or worse...) to sentient creatures and this means he has to be a fruitarian - it is observed easily. Violating ahimsa
because the guru is "beyond the law of karma" IMO only shows the great guru isn´t much concerned with being an example for disciples. The funniest thing
I ever came across was a Tibetan lama, consuming a big steak.>>
Well, about the only thing that one could grow in Tibet besides barely was a Yak. Its not surprising that they had to go to an animal-based diet.
HHDL has encouraged hsi followers to take up vegetarian diets where such a thing is available.
< When a
visitor flattened a pesky fly, the lama immediately started prayer for the poor,
deceased fly...(ROTFL).This great lama was utterly unmoved by his contribution to animal suffering in slaughter-houses. A still greater lama
once stated: suicide is always very negative - no discussion possible. There is a story about a former local ruler here. In a decisive battle against the
Spanish colonialists, he was loosing and decided he had to take his life because he felt responsible for the defeat and its
consequences. In doing so (jumping from a cliff) he saved the lives of family and commanders: >>
of course! He was acting by the Bodhisattvic ideal. Bodhisattva vows of
saving all beings by whatevermeans means that sometimes you have to take on negative karma. Of Killing, or whatever. But only a highly realized
bodhisattva knows the difference, is capable of knowing the difference.
< The Buddhist literature had no explanation for it
>>
that which is avaliable to the public. esoteric teachigns are another matter. They are kept secret to protect them and their practioners.
<, hence the
vivid discussion. Clearly, this monk was transgressing another law of ethics: violating privacy. [BTW, does someone know how to master this
invisible force? It seems to be an effective means of transport and my old car needs to be replaced (LOL)]. So one should really be careful with
gurus ->>
In the book "Words of My Perfect Teacher", the Vajrayana view on this is explained. I'd mangle it to be sure trying to synopsize, so i'll point you
to the book.
<IMO and observation all have their limitations and flaws. However, unless
one can start with an experience enabling one to make the " ultimate quest" the top-priority in life, a guru is needed and it is up to the disciple, to
decide which flaws are acceptable and which are objectionable. Of course, this decision can be flawed too, as "acceptable" and objectionable" are
related to personal taste, ethics and culture. As any professor in Hindu / Buddhist philosophy will outperform a guru, knowledge isn't a good test
either.>>
may all beings be free from suffering, may they be joined to true happiness
may they be free from the causes of suffering, joined to the causes for happiness.
maybe they be filled with equanimity, not holding one close and another
afar.
maitri,
--janpa tsomo (jham'pa mtsho'-mo) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 20:09:15 -0800
From: Dan Margolis To: Kundalini Mailing List
Subject: Re: gurus redux Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> < Considering the
> inherent > exaggeration of the East (1000 killed) as compared to the West, the story
> reminds me of Jesus, accepting a murderer on the cross as a disciple. > Really, getting rid of Angulimala could have been much easier. Offering
> poisoned food would have done the job most effectively. As the story goes, > it seems even Buddha died because of food poisoning. Buddha was even able to
> explain the "way of achieving union with Brahman" and the behavior required > for it - you know the sutra of course. >>
> > Actually i dont know that sutra. What is its name? And is it in English?
>
< Considering the inherent
exaggeration of the East (1000 killed) as compared to the West, the story reminds me of Jesus, accepting a murderer on the cross as a disciple.
Really, getting rid of Angulimala could have been much easier. Offering poisoned food would have done the job most effectively. As the story goes,
it seems even Buddha died because of food poisoning. Buddha was even able to explain the "way of achieving union with Brahman" and the behavior required
for it - you know the sutra of course. >>
Actually, I don't believe there is a sutra that describes Buddha's death by poisoning. I remember reading an article a long time ago discussing the myth of
Buddha's death. Most often it was described that he was given poisoned pork by a Hindu. I don't remember the exact details. However, the conclusion was drawn
that the myth started about 300 years after Buddhas death by Brahman priests in India, as an attempt to discourage the rising tide of Buddhist converts. If you
have more information on the story I would be glad to hear it.
Dan M. Date: Tue, 20 Mar 101 06:01:36 GMT
From: E Jason To: kundalini
Subject: Re: Impermanence - it will pass Message-Id:
on 19 Mar 98, Gloria Lee wrote...
>>Impermanence
>>-- Thich Nhat Hanh >>
>>Dear Crusty One, > Thanks for posting this.. where is it taken from?? I have recently
>been watching some video's of Thich giving talks.. and read one little >book on peace..he is a very cool guy..huh?? Glo
I have never seen or heard one of Thich Nhat Hanh's talks but his enlightenment
shines from his words. I just lifted the quote from another forum - source unknown.
It is genuine "mystics" like this who put to shame the narrow minded, self-interested pseudo-gurus who attract the gullible and the dishonest because
they wish to be beguiled, lied to and led a merry tune. Very cool - yes indeed.
Lobster
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 101 06:10:25 GMT From: E Jason
To: hlutharATnospambryant.edu Cc: Kundalini
Subject: Re: God As Perfection-God as Perfect Awareness Message-Id:
on 19 Mar 98, hlutharATnospambryant.edu wrote...
>Harsha: In one of my first philosophy classes at college, I read the
explanation of >a Greek philosopher (Probably Aristotle) describing the nature of God. He
reasoned >that God must be Perfect but wondered what a Perfect God does. A Perfect God of
>course must Contemplate on Perfection, reasoned Aristotle. But since there is only
>One Perfection, which is God Itself, God must be Contemplating His Own Self, >concluded the great philosopher. I was completely struck and spellbound by
those >statements. I was 17 and did not yet know the nature of the Self-Recognition.
But >even through the thick layers of illusion, it was as if eternity smiled at me
and >started whispering sweet nothings in my ear.......
The Sufi Ibn Al-Arabi develops this idea saying that only in Mans contemplation
of God is the perfection Realised. In other words God created imperfection in order tht His Perfection would be known.
Lobster saying Nothing
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:49:51 +0530 (IST) From: Anurag Goel
To: "Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D." Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: dynamic migraine? Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Holly, I suppose this should be true rather I think one will become
sensitive to what one hears or speaks. I think you should take less "Red Chilli Powder " "SOUR things" and avoid taking stuff
that is more salty.
> At the same time, I have become ultra-sensitive to medications, alcohol, > etc. and have to be very careful what I ingest. I'm assuming these new
> developments are part of the purification s
Anurag>
I think if one recites a mantra or does exrcices perfectly and calmly then
one won't suffer from headaches.
I think Shava asana after one's meditation or exercices would be beneficial.
Holly>
but I wonder if the > migraines are actually a way of expelling energy as the body changes.
> If so, has anybody got an easier way?! Thanks, Holly >
>
love, anurag
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 03:28:24 EST From: PEGLUMPKIN
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Reasonably good reason is . . .
Message-ID:
In a message dated 98-03-19 12:37:23 EST, Ed Jason writes:
< The original question stands (to everyone) - why does the so called process of
kundalini awakening produce more anguish than solutions? >>
The anguish is temporary. You told me that in reply to my very first post on this list. And you were right. When I stopped paying attention to the
kundalini symptoms, again at your suggestion, solutions popped up everywhere. It didn't make me a genius, but it did unleash creativity that had been
squelched by apprehension.
<It does not seem to produce genuises (as is claimed) with anything like the range of abilities and qualities that exist in those with developed
conventional resources.>>
I don't know your definition of genius. The best definition I have ever heard came from the no-brainer movie Smokey and the Bandits-- "How smart ya' are
depends on where yurr standin'." In other words, the value of any person's ability or contribution is contextual. Personally, I'm a genius at only one
thing, solving word jumbles. Great contribution to mankind, huh? But I can still contribute in other areas where I am NOT a genius.
(Incidentally, I do think it is an interesting coincidence that I have had
various manuscripts sitting around collecting dust for years, but since kundalini, publishers are chomping at the bit to publish them.
Synchronicity?)
Peg Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:33:24 -0000
From: "Alan Byron" To:
Subject: K Mailing list Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01BD53E3.3B32ABA0"
I have subscribed to the mailing list and received helpful answers to my question about shaktipat and kundalini experience.
I have been around the K carousel but I can't quite get how the Mailing system works and where I see various questions and answers. Will this happen automatically or is there some special site I must access? The information and experiences I have read about are helpful to me at my present position.
Alan Byron
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kunda164" Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 06:16:43 EST
From: Afperry To: janbarenATnospaminfase.es
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re. Gurus redux
Message-ID:
Dear Jan,
>As any professor in Hindu /Buddhist philosophy will outperform a guru, >knowledge isn't a good test either.
That depends on the guru. The most erudite man I know has only read one book
in his life (literally); but he is a God-Realised sadguru and all he has to do is to raise his consciousness to the Universal level and all 'knowledge' is
accessible to him. There is often a noticeable change in him when this occurs, sometimes preceded by a slight jump as his kundalini zips up his spine. He can
also take in the whole content of a book by simply placing his hands on it for a few seconds (I have seen this done more than once).
IMHO, intellectual knowledge becomes virtually meaningless when confronted
with higher spiritual realisation, and indeed can be a major blockage to that realisation in the first place.
With blessings,
Alan Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 06:44:19 -0400
From: "Orea de Sa' Hana" To: PEGLUMPKIN , kl List
Subject: Re: Reasonably good reason is . . . Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Peg,
Maybe now you are better prepared for success.
Love,
Orea (I'm terrible at word jumbles, always have been, so to me *this* is genius!)
PEGLUMPKIN wrote:
. Personally, I'm a genius at only one > thing, solving word jumbles. Great contribution to mankind, huh? But I can
> still contribute in other areas where I am NOT a genius. >
> (Incidentally, I do think it is an interesting coincidence that I have had > various manuscripts sitting around collecting dust for years, but since
> kundalini, publishers are chomping at the bit to publish them. > Synchronicity?)
> > Peg
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 06:40:32 -0700 From: Stuart
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Prannothana?
Message-ID:
Is anyone familiar or can define this term? It came up in a alt.yoga post and although it's vaguely familiar I can't remember it's meaning.
Thanks
Stuart stuartfATnospamdimensional.com
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.