1998/03/18 23:20
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #205
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 205
Today's Topics: Re: One truth [ "Gloria Lee" ]
gurus redux [ "Debora A. Orf" ] Re: crazy and crazed [ "Gloria Lee" ]
Cherokee [ "Joseph Miller" ] Re: K and economic status [ "Dave" ]
Re: Discovering the reptile within [ "Roberto Gonzales del Valle" ] kundalini homepage [ Max Van Eys ]
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:48:08 PST From: "Gloria Lee"
To: PEGLUMPKINATnospamaol.com Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: One truth Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
>In a message dated 98-03-17 14:11:27 EST, you write: >
>< We have met the enemy and he is US...(old Peanuts cartoon) >> >
>Gloria, was that from Pogo? >
>Peg >
>OH yeah..Pogo..boy does THAT date me?? or what?? My head is stuffed with this sort of random, mostly useless info..
but in the interest of accuracy.. Think it was Pogo..
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:20:33 -0600 (CST) From: "Debora A. Orf"
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: gurus redux
Message-ID:
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:05:27
From: "Jan Barendrecht" (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent ) Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
<In all systems of meditation, the relation between Guru and disciple is very special. It is of vital importance that the Guru is seen as God or
Buddha etc., depending on the subject of devotion for the system of meditation. Only if the Guru is considered this way, complete surrender is
possible. Without complete, unconditional surrender, nothing goes. For Westerners this is very difficult, as they judge someone as an outer form
with some habits and properties. It is the attitude of automatically judging others that easily kills the germinating seed of spiritual
development. If the Guru advises something one has to obey without even thinking about the matter. >>
hmm
ever hear the story of Angulimala? his guru's wife got jealous of him and
convinced the guru that Angulimala had to be gotten rid of. So the guru sent him on this rediculous quest. Angulimala, being a 'good' disciple,
did what he said and went about collecting the fingers of 1000 people whom he killed.
His last victim was going to be his own mother (one of the five heinous
crimes in the Buddhist system). Luckly Shakyamuni Buddha was in the neigborhood and got things straightened out. Angulimala became one of
Buddha's disciples. When the army chasing him found out where he was they were a little suprised to find him saffron with no hair.
One has the right to question for clarity what one's guru tells one.
Otherwise the almost-disaster of Angulimala could befall. This is why it is so important to evaluate the teacher!
--janpa (the disciple who constantly seems to be asking 'Why?')
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:01:30 -0800 From: Dan Margolis
To: Kundalini Mailing List Subject: Re: Just a though
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C78967097602F36602CC31AD"
Antoine wrote:
> Hello Dan M.
> > Your answer is very interesting...
> > Taking a symbol, to try to go deeper in this topic: the star of David (one triangle
> pointing down, Karma in this case, one triangle pointing up, genetics or evolution) for > me represent two side, way of manifesting, of the same "force".
The symbol can be interpretted in another way. Each point of the star can viewed in a
different way. At the bottom of the star we place Unity, Nothingness, or void. On the left bottom point we place the chemical and physical world. On the right point of the triangle
we place the biological world. On the upper right point we place the sociological world. At the upper left point we place the intellectual world. and at the top of the triangle we
place the spiritual realm.
Spiritual
Intellectual
Sociological [Image]
Chemical/Physical Biological
Unity/Void
Each of these points in the triangle show a direction that humans evolve. In the
physical/chemical realm we deal with interactions of matter, chemical processes. In the biological realm we deal with biological forces. In the sociological realm we place group
interactions, how our culture and society evolve. In the intellectual realm we place ideas, thoughts and patterns of thinking. In the spiritual realm we place karma and rebirth. In
the Unity realm we place the ultimate. Evolution in a humans take place in all directions until there is a centering and a person is realized.
Dan M.
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kunda162"
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\CWINDOW2.jpe" Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:15:53 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, dorf01ATnospammail.win.org
Subject: Re: gurus redux Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
> >Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:05:27
>From: "Jan Barendrecht" (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent )
>Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center >Message-Id:
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >
> ><In all systems of meditation, the relation between Guru and disciple
is >very special. It is of vital importance that the Guru is seen as God or
>Buddha etc., depending on the subject of devotion for the system of >meditation. Only if the Guru is considered this way, complete surrender
is >possible. Without complete, unconditional surrender, nothing goes. F
> janpa wrote:
hmmm
Gee, love those wise hmm's...wouldn't Guru be pointing the disciple back to realize himself..?? Like Harsha does?? Do many gurus actually wish to
be considered as God or Buddha?? Just wondering..as they would have like no chance with me..I prefer the sort of spiritual guidance one gets from
people who still live in this world of jobs and families and like you all here on the list. Do I need a guru??
Still crazy after all these years... Glo Lee
> This is why it
>is so important to evaluate the teacher! >
>--janpa (the disciple who constantly seems to be asking 'Why?') >yeah..me, too.
>
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Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:45:58 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, lobsterATnospamclara.net
Subject: Re: crazy and crazed Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
TO My Dear, >The sarcastic
>safe and whacky >friendly Lobster>
>SNIP> I would contend that even if we are wrong,
>potential for learning is always present). >Consider these situations where the 'teacher' is in fact providing for
the >*Real* need of the student:
> >
>"I am always being picked on and humiliated by the other students Master."
>The Master slaps the students face. >
> >"I need your attention Oh Great Teacher"
>"Go away. Can't you see I am busy teaching . . . " >
> >"Please help me oh great Yogi"
>"Help you? I can not even stand on my head for five minutes without you >demanding something - Get a life!"
>Glo replies:
These Examples just cracked me up...even tho I already have a husband to do this type of service for me..Please feel free to whack me with a
stick whenever it will serve some useful purpose, Lobster. I believe you owe me one by now, anyway. Also.. any jokes made at my expense are
welcome..anything can be forgiven if there's a good laugh in it..this is why I am so fond of you to begin with.
> <SNIP>>
>
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:49:53 PST From: "Joseph Miller"
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Cc: PEGLUMPKINATnospamaol.com, annfisherATnospamstic.net
Subject: Cherokee Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
I didn't respond to the post because I only got a piece of the original letter and somehow missed the posting on the list. Sorry!
Joe Miller wrote:
> >< I practice the religion of my Cherokee ancestors but I use the
tools I >learned from a few good Hatha teachers, a learned instructor in the
>philosophy, and a Kundalini >master I met in north India. >>
> >PEGLUMPKIN wrote:
>I also have Cherokee heritage....
>I would be interested to know if there is any Cherokee spiritual component
>that would correspond to kundalini.
Yes there is. If it has a name and the degree of distinctions by name that the vayus (pranas) do and that distinguish them from Kundalini I
don't know them.
There was a knowledge of the energy in the body and there are techniques developed to move the energy in the body. These are much like the Hindu
techniques of specific asana and pranayama in that there are some general ones that help overall but there are many special ones that are
only of value for moving K from one point to another, such as from throat to Ajna. These were never spoken of in front of whites, I guess
until now, and, again like the Hindus, were not a part of the knowledge of the common people. These were taught by very skilled teachers to
their students and in a few cases taught by astrals (dead masters who have stayed around to help students who attain to the point of being
able to communicate with them).
annfisherATnospamstic.net wrote:
>I think all the Indians in the U.S. and probably Canada were (and perhaps
>still are, except where they have gone Christian) oriented toward the sort
>of individualistic religion that includes vision quests, for instance, and
>has no priests but rather shamans - medicine men, singers, sachems, etc.
>They probably all have some experience of overt kundalini. >
>I may be mistaken when I say "all." I do think the great Indian >civilizations to the south were more priest-oriented.
I can't speak about any other tribe about kundalini.
I do take issue with the "no priests" statement. Having spent a bit of
time in India I would argue that the Cherokees had individuals who were just as much priests as the priests at the temples in India and having
very much the same sorts of traditions. All individual religions (as opposed to congregational religions) be it Hindu, Buddhist, Cherokee,
etc. will have priests. They just won't function like we are used to thinking of them if we use the R.C. model. Most Cherokee priests were
trained within the family in the matters of religion. Much of their living was made by delivering their services, praying over a corn field
for example, just as in India a priest will charge for an individual service for a family or individual.
Namaste,
Joe
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Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:51:05 -0500
From: Jeff Jackson To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: One truth Message-Id:
Greetings,
Someone wrote:
> We have met the enemy and he is US...(old Peanuts cartoon)
It was Pogo, not Peanuts.
As if it matters,
Jeff Jackson Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:14:14 -0700
From: "Wright, James 7929" To: "'kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com'"
Subject: FW: Just a though Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dan said I forgot to put this through to the list, so here it is!
Thanks! james
>---------- >From: Wright, James 7929
>Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 10:44 AM >To: Dan Margolis
>Subject: RE: Just a though >Importance: High
> >Hey Dan!
> For those who might be provoked to chase these books down, the author is >Richard Dawkins, the titles are "Darwin's Dangerous Idea" and "The Selfish
>Gene"; there is a mailing list at lucifer.com called "virus" (after another >book, Richard Brodie's _Virus of the Mind_) which discusses memes (basic unit
>of cultural information) at verbose length and excruciating detail. > Best of luck to all; not trying to criticise Dan or be smart, just finally
>found something I could contribute here! :) > Thanks!
> james >
>---------- >From: Dan Margolis[SMTP:margolisATnospamtransbay.net]
> >Subject: Re: Just a though
>....... >In biological evolutionary theory there has been much discussion recently
>about >people that do things contrary to biological imperative. One explanation
>brought up >by Dawkins(I'm not sure of his first name) is that there is a chemical
>evolution of >genomes through the laws of natural selection, and these same laws also apply
>to >evolution of idiomes(I think that's his term). Basically thought patterns
>obey the >same laws that apply to the biological world. They exist, they can
>evolve/change, >and they can die. The thought patterns that have the best chance of survival
>last >the longest. So a thought that has vitality will last a long time and
>continue to >evolve. There can also be conflict between this realm of thought and the
>realm of >the biological. If enlightenment is also a function of the thought realm and
>it is >a long lived way of thinking then even if biological it is selected out,
>ideologically it may be selected for and will continue to grow and reproduce. > The
>book 'The Dangerous Gene' by Dawkins describes this theory. >.....(liberally snipped to conserve bandwidth)
> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:15:44 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, eeaATnospamaug.com
Subject: Re: K and economic status Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
Ed Aarons wrote: >
> >"Blessed are the poor in Spirit; for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
> >Of course, the poor are blessed with spirit, IF they are 'godly', not
>obsessed with gaining worldly power, status, or wealth; blessed is >ANYONE with spirit; for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
>Bless YOU Ed !!!...there are so few opportunities for me to use the
years of servitude I spent in Bible study...This quote actually has nothing to do with being necessarily poor..in the sense of not having
worldly goods..if I may shed a bit of light on this.. the poor in spirit would refer to those WILLING (as in humble enough) to receive the
"kingdom of spiritual values"..as opposed to the more worldly standards as you refer to them of status and power. Tho, in practice, the poor ARE
in fact often much more willing to accept divine guidance and to live by standards of God's values..(like the song goes.... "freedom's just
another word for nothing left to lose".. heh heh) Those who consider themselves already rich and self-sufficent may then
see no need of seeking God's kingdom or seeking to do his will.
For those seeking loopholes..this may be one, even. Its just one example of Jesus fondness for paradox...
>---------------------------------------------------- >Residual questions:
> >Does the above quote mean ALL the poor are blessed with spirit?
NO..it doesn't even refer to the poverty of goods. >
>Do I recall correctly Jesus saying one should give away their wealth? But to
>whom? ok..there was ONE guy, the rich, young ruler..who BTW claimed to be
very morally upright also..said had kept the law.. and he asked what MORE must I do to gain eternal life?? Now to HIM..he was advised to be
willing to sell all he had in order to follow Jesus..he was clearly more attached to his wealth, so he refused. (story is in Luke 18:)
Not to the poor, who would then become rich -the rich poor- and we
>are back where we started. Maybe it meant distribute the wealth fairly.
Actually, "fairly" is perhaps your most accurate interpretation yet. Proverbs says like" give me neither poverty, nor wealth."...people are
often urged not to take advantage of others, not to be greedy and selfish in the way they make their money..that the entire purpose of
life is greater than the mere accumulation of things..try to remember that the context of these New testament teachings was to correct some
mistaken ideas that wealth was a sign of God's favor and blessing..and there is room in the new context for a balance... one ought to have
concern for the poor, but it's not required to become poor. The greater concern was really directed at issues of justice...and not to lose sight
of spiritual values in order to obtain wealth. PS Wondering why you even asked in this Biblical context?? Got a
history like mine..per chance??? Old programming can be such a nuisance.
>---------------------------------------------------- >Today I went out into the world to make a 'business' deal. I felt
creative and >
>articulate, but I wonder what will happen when I 'strive' to make my dream
>happen? Oh, I can hear the chorus now: DON'T STRIVE!!!!! Go with the flow!!!
> >Any role models out there? :-)
> >(Certainly..not me..ha ha.) I do subscribe to Joseph Campbell's advice
to "Follow your bliss". If that's how you mean you have a dream..go for it. You might like to look at the concepts of Wayne Dyer in especially
one of his latest books..Your Sacred Self..because he talks about finding and being "on your purpose"..so that synchronicity then just
FLOWS the abundance you need to achieve your purpose in life both spiritually and materially. Its kind of like when the student is ready,
the teacher appears. If you have a nice dream that makes a nicer world...you will be supported to manifest that. There's lots of good
ideas in his book, he has come a long way from the old 70's Erroneous Zones...its really a very spiritual new outlook.
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:04:33 -0800 From: "Dave"
To: Subject: Re: K and economic status
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Gloria Lee wrote:
>Not to the poor, who would then become rich -the rich poor- and we
>are back where we started. Maybe it meant distribute the wealth >fairly.
>
Very good interpretation, Gloria!
Here's another point of view from Emmett Fox's book: "The Sermon on the Mount" - The Key to Success in Life,
regarding that Beatitude - "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
He says: "To be poor in spirit does not in the least mean the thing we call
'poor spirited' nowadays. To be poor in spirit means to have emptied yourself of all desire to exercise personal self-will, and, what is just as
important, to have renounced all preconceived opinions in the wholehearted search for God. It means to be willing to set aside your present habits of
thought, your present views and prejudices, your present way of life if necessary; to jettison, in fact, anything and everything that can stand in
the way of your finding God."
Pretty bold definition considering he wrote that about 64 years ago during a time in the "West" when few people were open to new comments on the Bible!
Dave
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:12:47 PST From: "Roberto Gonzales del Valle"
To: david.bozziATnospamsnet.net Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Discovering the reptile within Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
WTG Dave! I`m printing the poem and tranlation to add it to the faculty´s students
newspaper in college this comming season.
>Jerry Katz wrote: >
>> "The only cure now for the current ills >> Is that the brilliant galaxy which fills
>> The chairs of power should be required to gain >> Transcendence with attunement of the brain..."
>> (The Shape of Things To Come, 1st Edition, Gopi Krishna, p. 107) >>
>> Folks, if you don't think kundalini is dangerous, would you please read
>> that passage again? Does anybody know what the hell Gopi Krishna is >> talking about?
> >Lucky for you I'm a skilled translator for nonsense.
> >Gopi:
>"The only cure now for the current ills >D.
>(The only way to a perfect world.) >Gopi:
>Is that the brilliant galaxy which fills >The chairs of power should be required to gain
>Transcendence with attunement of the brain..." >D.
>(The rulers and people of power must be enlightened >per requirement via some scientifically controlled and tested method.)
> >Anyway, poetry is like clouds.
>Reflective clouds. >Someone else may see it as something pinched from Star Trek 6
> >
> >
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:34:18 -0500 From: "Ed Arrons"
To: "Gloria Lee" , Subject: WHERE IS GOD -NOW?
Message-Id:
Or...
Look for God/Love to manifest when we read equality in each other's words. :-) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 07:16:04 +0100
From: Max Van Eys To:
Subject: kundalini homepage Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
March 19, 1998 07:08 am
Hi Folks,
I will you attend of the existence of a very good Homepage abot Kundalini Energy of Pierre Van Eijl, living in a little castle in the Centre of
Utrecht (The Netherlands).
Pierre Van Eijl is educated at BPI, Berkeley USA.
His homepage is located at http://www.worldaccess.nl/~pvaneijl/kundalin
His email address is:
pvaneijlATnospamworldaccess.nl
With Regards
Max Van Eys Member of your list
NL-Houten http://www.tip.nl/users/max.eys
ICQ #9081859
Max Van Eys Creations Melkhoeve 34
NL-3992 XT Houten tel/faxmodem 030-6379503
semafoon/buzzer 06-59580074 ICQ # 9081859 (downloaden http://www.mirabilis.com )
Binnenkort komen naar Nederland:
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Mooie sites:
-Gedichten van Aafje Hiemstra http://leden.tref.nl/co.sch/~start.htm
-Erg inspirerend http://angelfire.com/me/eps1/index.html -Digital Birthday Calender
http://www.xs4all/~molegraa/lezen.html -Spiritweb http://www.spiritweb.org/
-KoendalinieNetwerk http://www.worldaccess.nl/~pvaneijl/kundalin -Kunst van Hubertina Nijsten
http://www.horizon.nl/~fransleo/lets/tineke -InnerNetwerk http://www.xs4all.nl/~innerned/
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