1998/03/18 11:48
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #204
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 204
Today's Topics: Re: Just a though [ "Jan Barendrecht" ]
glossary link [ freda ] Re: Discovering the reptile within [ Dolce Vita ]
Re: Discovering the reptile within [ Jerry Katz ] delighted [ David Bozzi ]
Re: Discovering the reptile within [ David Bozzi ] Re: SRI AUROBINDO AND DIVINE MOTHER [ Anurag Goel ]
UNSUBSCRIBE [ WILL WATERS ] Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource [ Anurag Goel ]
Re: Discovering the reptile within [ Harsh Luthar ] Re: Just a though [ Ann Morrison Fisher ]
Re: Discovering the reptile within [ Dan Margolis To:
Subject: Re: Just a though Message-ID:
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-----Original Message-----
From: Antoine Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 3:51 PM
>IF the ability to become "truly enlighten" (whatever that means) is tied, in any >way, to genitical heredity
>THEN, from written history, the human specie as a problem in "evolving" along
>that path
>FOR people we call "truly enlighten" do not usually reproduce themselves.
>Reactions are welcome
>Antoine
>-- >"A new world is born in every moment. The question is, are we present to this
>magnificent birth?" Marcus S. Robinson
No link exists between enlightenment and heredity. Not all enlightened ones are without children; Buddha had some, they became his disciples after his enlightenment. The relation is different. Generally speaking, there are two types:
1) Persons receiving enlightenment as a kind of instant - Samadhi, before having started a conscious form of meditation.
2) Persons who develop gradually on the path.
The first category cannot think about anything but meditate / concentrate; for them, it has top-priority. It is their nature (or Karma, if you wish). But the event that will change their life forever can happen after having enjoyed family-life.
The second category can start a practice of meditation at any stage of life (single, relation with or without children, pensioner). Because the obstacles for enlightenment are in the mind and not in the objects, many Eastern yogis proclaimed that Self-realization was possible while having a job and family at the same time and yet - these teachers practiced seclusion for themselves. Comparing different systems, at a certain stage of spiritual development, Rosicrucians consider you to be a perfect parent (because the little ones are very sensitive to "spiritual radiation"). At the same stage of development, many systems of yoga claim you to be an "impeccable Master above temptations" (LOL). So the real problem is the "cultural wrap" of the system of meditation. With Sufism for instance, it is different. Most if not all Sufi Masters are married and have offspring. Even from the viewpoint of progress there need not be a difference between type 1 and 2. Living the life of a recluse, one may never find out some of the "hidden tendencies" that are obstructing progress. Only having an active life will show these tendencies. However problems of another kind will be present within a mixed (one meditating, the other isn´t) relationship. If Eastern systems of meditation would have been introduced by saints leading a married life (there have been many in India, as both partners can practice brahmacarya, both can be Self-realized), many problems would have been avoided and you would not have been asking your questions... It shows that even omniscience has its limits :-)))
Jan
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 97 02:32:35 GMT From: E Jason
To: kundalini Subject: Re: One truth
Message-Id:
on 17 Mar 98, Gloria Lee wrote...
--- text referred to at base of post -----
>>HMMM??? Is this the very same Lobster who DID ridicule that very same >post?? And the same one who refuses to see that he misled (even
>unintentionally) by his humor and led to the confusion with Roberto from >Peru ?? Whom he then will not deign to forgive??
HMMM (mantra of the unconfused?)
No it is not the same Lobster. It never is. Just as the same River is never entered twice.
As for Roberto there is nothing for me to forgive as he has done nothing wrong.
My Dear and Beloved Roberto, I apologise for any hurt I may have caused by not accepting your apology.
I do of course feel there is nothing to 'forgive', you will always be my friend. Lobster
However saying words and even feeling their Truth is not the same as being
changed by them. Words are easy to give out but difficult to live by. That is why the idea of spiritual truths that can be written down as absolutes is so
limiting and living by them soul destroying (but offers a certainty that is seductive).
OK..so they are >ourself?? We have met the enemy and he is US...(old Peanuts cartoon)
>Glad you clarified all this for us, Lobster.
There is no enemy, unless we resist something. Nothing to clarify unless we confuse ourself.
Best Wishes
Lobster (a different one)
------------
>>However we have to respect their blocks and conditioning just as others >do about
>>our own limitations. We have to listen to them, so they can hear their >own
>>voice. >>However we too have a choice (perhaps because of our lack of patience
>and >>limited capacity to bear the reflection of our own intolerance) to
>ignore or >>ridicule the narrow minded. That too is narrow and confined. This is
>why we >>respect those with defects and welcome them. They are ourself.
>> >>My hat
>>my Lobster -----
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:03:08 -0800 From: freda
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: glossary link
Message-ID:
I mis-spelled thesaurus on the search engine ended up here instead:
COLLATION OF THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARIES
http://www.halcyon.com/theosnw/ctg/ctg-hp.htm this is from the homepage
> COMPILER'S NOTES >
> This Collation of Theosophical Glossaries is not a new set of "definitions" or "explanations," but rather a > gathering of some major theosophical glossaries into one place and a collation of their entries into an
> encyclopedic format, thus making it a single, comprehensive resource for students.
freda Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 00:22:16 -0400
From: Dolce Vita To: E Jason
CC: kundalini Subject: Re: Discovering the reptile within
Message-ID:
HI Lobster!
I was gone for a long time from the list, finally I got it back. I missed you!
I found your letter today and you made me laugh a lot... you are really witty. I love your humor... that thought was extreeeeemely interesting,
stimulating and enlightening. Thanks for still being here with us...
Love and light,
Lissette Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:22:29 -0800
From: Jerry Katz To: "keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu" ,
hlutharATnospambryant.edu, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Discovering the reptile within
Message-ID:
Kurt Keutzer wrote:
> That's a good point. Gopi Krishna talks about spontaneously spouting > Sanskrit poetry and all that. But if you read his published poetry - well
> you can decide yourself whether it is genius or not.
I know what you're saying. Still, time is the arbiter here. Anyway, can
you envision a class of Third Graders reciting this at school assembly in some devolutionary, post-nuclear holocaust, mutation-world?:
"The only cure now for the current ills
Is that the brilliant galaxy which fills The chairs of power should be required to gain
Transcendence with attunement of the brain..." (The Shape of Things To Come, 1st Edition, Gopi Krishna, p. 107)
(Note: unless you want to hear more of this Plan-9-From-Outer-Space
drek, let's hear a collective k-list..."yatta yatta yatta..." and I'll move on to the next paragraph.)
Folks, if you don't think kundalini is dangerous, would you please read
that passage again? Does anybody know what the hell Gopi Krishna is talking about?
> I tend to think that kundalini integrates and amplifies the brain function.
> If there is genius in there then it has more energy to come out - but if > there is no genius in there then it just means more of whatever is in there
> comes out.
Wait a minute, Kurt. You're saying kundalini integrates and amplifies the brain. Then you're saying genius is in there and kundalini releases
it.
Are you saying that kundalini integrates and amplifies the brain only so that more of whatever is in there can come out? There is no qualitative
effect at all? No gains in esthetic value?
A thousand more questions could be asked. They're in there somewhere.
By the way, whatever happened to the magazine Spiritual India and Kundalini? What is the state of kundalini research?
Gopi Krishna's genius, it may turn out, is that he created a place for
kundalini outside the walls constructed around religions and mystery schools, and thereby inspired personal and scientific research into
kundalini.
Best always,
Jerry
Nondualism. http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/umbada
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:33:32 -0500 From: David Bozzi
To: Kundalini Subject: delighted
Message-ID:
What's a genius? Does one need to know?
What if one doesn't care if one is enlightened or not? Would the Enlightened One have time to be concerned with such issues?
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:46:40 -0500 From: David Bozzi
To: Kundalini Subject: Re: Discovering the reptile within
Message-ID:
Jerry Katz wrote:
> "The only cure now for the current ills > Is that the brilliant galaxy which fills
> The chairs of power should be required to gain > Transcendence with attunement of the brain..."
> (The Shape of Things To Come, 1st Edition, Gopi Krishna, p. 107) >
> Folks, if you don't think kundalini is dangerous, would you please read > that passage again? Does anybody know what the hell Gopi Krishna is
> talking about?
Lucky for you I'm a skilled translator for nonsense.
Gopi: "The only cure now for the current ills
D. (The only way to a perfect world.)
Gopi: Is that the brilliant galaxy which fills
The chairs of power should be required to gain Transcendence with attunement of the brain..."
D. (The rulers and people of power must be enlightened
per requirement via some scientifically controlled and tested method.)
Anyway, poetry is like clouds. Reflective clouds.
Someone else may see it as something pinched from Star Trek 6 Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:51:28 +0530 (IST)
From: Anurag Goel To: Ann Morrison Fisher
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: SRI AUROBINDO AND DIVINE MOTHER
Message-Id:
Hi Ann,
One can't escape universal mud but I think that it will become easier if one follows the heart path.
Love, anurag
> > Ann writes:
> > The heart-center-first path may be easier. But no matter what path we
> take, sooner or later we come to universal mud and go swimming with Harsha! >
> >
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:11:46 +1000 From: WILL WATERS
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE FROM LIST
Message-Id:
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SAMPLE THE SOURCE
AND ADD LINK TO YOUR WEBSITE
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AUSTRALIAN BILINGUAL BOOK PUBLISHER Featuring native flora and fauna with text translations
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Regards - Will Waters
http://www.mullum.com.au/seawingsurfing/ Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:14:07 +1000
From: WILL WATERS To: KUNDALINI-LATnospamEXECPC.COM
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Message-Id:
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PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SAMPLE THE SOURCE AND ADD LINK TO YOUR WEBSITE
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Featuring native flora and fauna with text translations in 7 languages from English to :Italian:Spanish:
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:33:19 +0530 (IST) From: Anurag Goel
To: Alan Byron Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center Message-Id:
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Hi Alan, It depends on the individual that after recieving shaktipat to
what extent one experiences the Kundalini.I think it's rare that
people soon after shaktipat are able to experience kundalini. I think experiences after shaktipat depend on your present janama
as well as past janamas.
So, I think there is nothing wrong with your experience. I think one has to go further in experiences to experience
KUNDALINI fully and for it one should do something like recite a mantra given by Guru, or
exercices suggested by Guru. Love and Bhakti towards Guru is equally beneficial but it should be true love and bhakti.
Your Kundalini has been awakenend by Guru. He knows about
both of you more better than anyone else( I suppose so). Seek his advice if you have doubt and act according to his
advice. Love,
anurag.
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Alan Byron wrote:
> My wife,Adele, and I have received Shaktipat from Sri Siddheshwar Baba. > Adele was very moved by the story of Lalleshwara and would like some information, booklist etc.
> I personally have had little in the way of any energy like experience in my spine or anything particularly unusual. Is this 'normal'
> My wife had some spinal energy experience soon after shaktipat,the length of the spine to her head, but not much since.
> Our Guru has advised not to do any specific kundalini excercises but that shakti would cleanse the chakras of her own accord. Any comments?
> >
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 06:33:15 -0500 From: "Ed Arrons"
To: Subject: SPIRIT OF ATHEISM
Message-Id:
This is a conversation between a Caller and a Miami talk show Host, an avowed atheist:
C:
You say you don't believe in God.
H: Yes, that's right. It's just a fairytale.
C:
Well, when you say you don't believe in "God" what do you mean by that word?
H:
It doesn't mean anything. There is no such thing.
C: God is a word which is understood in many different ways by many people.
Do you know all the different meanings?
H. I can't say that I know everyone's definition of God.
C.
Then you are rejecting only those definitions that you know, and the word "God" which you say has no meaning, does have meaning, but you reject
them. So, what basic image or idea of God is it that you are rejecting?
H. Basically, that God is some conscious being that created everything and who
judges us.
C: If I said that God was "all of nature, seen and unseen" could you accept that
definition?
H: Maybe, but nobody thinks that is God.
C:
Oh, many people do. But you see where you were not rejecting God, but just the definition of others.
H.
You mean I'm not an atheist after all? Sorry, God, guess I just couldn't figure you out. (laughing)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:12:12 -0500 From: Harsh Luthar
To: umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca CC: "keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu" ,
kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Discovering the reptile within
Message-ID:
Jerry Katz wrote:
> Anyway, can you envision a class of Third Graders reciting this at school > assembly
> in some devolutionary, post-nuclear holocaust, mutation-world?: >
> "The only cure now for the current ills > Is that the brilliant galaxy which fills
> The chairs of power should be required to gain > Transcendence with attunement of the brain..."
> (The Shape of Things To Come, 1st Edition, Gopi Krishna, p. 107)
Harsha: Still it rhymes Jerry, does it not? In any case, where were you when Gene Keiffer was chastising me as a youthful and misguided adventure seeker (something
like that)? Where is my brother Gene (whom I truly love). Has he given up on this list?
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:18:45 -0600 From: Ann Morrison Fisher
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Just a though
Message-Id:
Antoine wrote:
>Taking a symbol, to try to go deeper in this topic: the star of David (one
>triangle >pointing down, Karma in this case, one triangle pointing up, genetics or
>evolution) for >me represent two side, way of manifesting, of the same "force".
>Yes... seems Nature has difficulty making those two triangles converge to
>create a >perfect harmony between the two "planes" (biological and spiritual). As
>the lower >triangle gets close to the higher triangle, it seems to want to jump over
>forgetting the >lower triangle. Nature is having a real hard time to come to center those
>two triangles >in the heart of a human living (reproductive) being.
Seems to me one line (between two points) represents a plane, while a
triangle is the 3 of creation (1=unity; 2=duality, Yin/Yang, all the opposites; 3=creation, manifestation). We can see the two triangles as
existing not on two different planes, but as extending through or encompassing more than one plane. The downward-pointing triangle
represents creation from the higher to the lower, the upward-pointing triangle creation from below to above. The human being is where the two
triangles can exist together.
Love, Ann
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:26:56 -0600 From: Ann Morrison Fisher
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Just a though
Message-Id:
Antoine wrote:
A small point:
>In the study of human evolution from the prehistoric man of "Cro-Magnon"
>(in french), >you have many examples of possible future human species with bigger brains
>then, that >did not pass the test.
I believe you are thinking of the evolution of the species before
Cro-Magnon man. Cro-Magnon was human in our sense; he could easily walk down the street and attract no attention - dressed properly, of course
:)))))). His art appears sophisticated, not really primitive.
Cro-Magnon suddenly appeared and was co-existent with Neanderthal man. Where did Cro-Magnon come from? Some say Atlantis.
Love,
Ann Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:05:27
From: "Jan Barendrecht" (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent ) To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>My wife,Adele, and I have received Shaktipat from Sri Siddheshwar Baba. >Adele was very moved by the story of Lalleshwara and would like some
information, >booklist etc. >I personally have had little in the way of any energy like experience in
my spine or >anything particularly unusual. Is this 'normal' >My wife had some spinal energy experience soon after shaktipat,the length
of the >spine to her head, but not much since. >Our Guru has advised not to do any specific kundalini excercises but that
shakti >would cleanse the chakras of her own accord. Any comments?
In all systems of meditation, the relation between Guru and disciple is very special. It is of vital importance that the Guru is seen as God or
Buddha etc., depending on the subject of devotion for the system of meditation. Only if the Guru is considered this way, complete surrender is
possible. Without complete, unconditional surrender, nothing goes. For Westerners this is very difficult, as they judge someone as an outer form
with some habits and properties. It is the attitude of automatically judging others that easily kills the germinating seed of spiritual
development. If the Guru advises something one has to obey without even thinking about the matter. However, there are a few things left that the
Guru didn´t mention and yet could assist. The attitude of "not judging others" and reflecting about it is something that can be practiced all day
long. Considering that the unfolding of K. has to be welcomed with reverence and respect, one can start behaving accordingly. It also means,
all actions conflicting with the serenity of K.- unfolding should be avoided. Another way to "curb" the mind of its false notions is selfless
service to society.
Jan
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:25:24 -0800 From: "Solar Lion"
To: Subject: E-MAIL ADDRESS CHANGE
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list administrator and
everyone that has been Sending privite e-mails
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Solar Lion (Bob)
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:26:23 -0800 From: Dan Margolis
To: E Jason , Kundalini Mailing List
Subject: Re: Discovering the reptile within Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>No kundalini enabled person has ever claimed the huge amounts of cash (which
>they could give to charity) offered by sceptical scientists and others to >demonstrate their "psychic gifts".
I can give two reasons why nobody has come forward. First it's an improper use of
the gifts. These gifts should only be used outside the political and economical realms. A miracle can happen only when it's the right time, place and people.
Secondly, most of the energy work I do is healing. The effect I use most often to
heal people is the placebo effect. Convincing people that they are getting better is one of the fastest way to actually improve their health. There was a medical
study done about 5 years ago where they took a group of patients suffering from hypertension(high blood pressure). One third of the patients were given a surgical
technique used to deconstrict arteries around the heart. Another third of the patients were just given an incision on there chest. No surgery was actually
done. They were just left with a scar. These two groups had a near identical recovery rate of 30%. The control group that was given no surgery had a recovery
rate of 14%. What was most important to these groups was the belief that something had been done.
Mostly what I do to heal people is convince them that something good is being done,
and bring the bodies attention to problem areas. I also gently suggest solutions to the problems with my hands. There own mind-body is the only thing that can heal
them. With the k-energy I've been recently channelling I can also increase blood flow in the problem areas and boost the attention the body focuses on them.
I could not possibly treat a skeptic bound and determined not to be healed. It
wouldn't work, and I accept that.
>If Kundalini is about human evolution, why are so many kundalites not able to >fulfill their human potential, let alone something higher?
It's my feeling Kundalini energy does not cause evolution. It gives people the
ability to evolve faster. Other tools and techniques also help this evolution. A person who is illiterate no matter how much k-energy she's channelling won't
spontaneously be able to read. However, she might be able to learn to read much faster. She would be able to concentrate better and focus tighter. She also might
be able to pick up subtle 'telepathic' concepts of reading so that it seems like she's almost learning to read immediately. However, this person is still going
through the learning proccess, just at an accellerated rate.
Dan M.
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