1998/02/20 14:27
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #139
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 139
Today's Topics:
Re: Prana vs kundalini [ Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com ]
Re: More of us? [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
Solving the Iraqi Crisis: Important [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistres ]
Re: More of Us? [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
Re: Solving the Iraqi Crisis [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Re: More of us? [ Kathy <deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com> ]
white descent and red ascent [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley ]
Re: white descent and red ascent [ Morgana Wyze <morganaATnospambest.com> ]
More of us [ DruoutATnospamaol.com ]
Interim poll results [ DruoutATnospamaol.com ]
Re: white descent and red ascent [ Antoine <acarreATnospamconcentric.net> ]
Re: Solving the Iraqi Crisis [ Danijel Turina <dturinaATnospamusa.net> ]
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:49:42 EST
From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
To: peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com
Subject: Re: Prana vs kundalini
Message-ID: <c8be8438.34ed89f8ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-02-20 00:32:19 EST, peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in writes:
<< Dear Peshwani writes: Awareness of Prana energy takes one to Suniata or
Nirvana towards higher evolution.>>
Harsha writes: The Practice of Awareness of Awareness takes one to Nirvana.
<<Dear Peshwani writes: Awareness of Kundalini energy takes one to Deva loka
of saints and a soul has to come down to human life to reevolve to Nirvana at
some stage for survival. >>
Harsha writes: This is true. Kundalini energy takes one to all the Deva lokas
in different Samadhis. At death, if a person is not liberated he or she may go
to one of the celestial realms and be born again. However, for a Sage who has
become wholly indifferent to all states of consciousness and enjoyments of
heaven, the Shakti rises fully and merges with the Self, resulting in complete
and eternal Freedom.
On the difference between Prana and Kundalini Harsha further suggests: As a
practical matter, Kundalini Shakti and Prana cannot be separated. The
Kundalini is the mother of Prana or the Chief Prana. This is why She is called
Prana Shakti. She is also the mother of the Mind. When the Shakti enters the
Sushmana, mind and prana enter with her (prana begins to be withdrawn from
all over the body and the body becomes motionless). Different Schools may
explain it differently. What is important is for the aspirant to grasp the
essentials of the spiritual path and practice. The readings are endless (As
Dear Kurt's list makes evident). Following the Pure teaching of non-violence,
spiritual aspiration, the Blessings of Sages, and practical application are
the keys to unlock the open mystery of Existence.
God bless everyone......
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:40:59 -0600
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: More of us?
Message-Id: <l03010d01b113431113d1ATnospam[207.71.51.76]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>1. How many of us have meditated
YES
>2. How many of us chant or pray
YES
>3. How many of us do hatha yoga exercises with or without mediation
YES (some)
>4. how many of us have experienced Near Death Experiences (NDE's) or Out of
>body experiences (OBE)
YES
5. Are any of us still agnostic
NO
6. How many of us have experienced Shaktipat
YES
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:58:01
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Solving the Iraqi Crisis: Important MidEast Update
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980220105801.0a47d47cATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thought some folks might wanna know.. you can add your K-fire to the
meditations for peace going on world wide.. I chopped more than half of
this post, write me direct if you'd like the rest of it.. or add yourself
to this lightworker list.
Blessings of peace, Mystress.
>From: LightweaveATnospamaol.com
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 23:55:20 EST
>To: LightweaveATnospamaol.com
>Subject: Important MidEast Update
>X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.iceonline.com
id WAA27923
>
>Friends,
> Yesterday (Wed) I received the two following letters and felt it was
> important to share then with you immediately. One is about Jimmy Twymans
(The
> Peace Troubador) meeting Today (Thu. Feb. 18th) with Sadaam Hussien a noon
> EST. The other is about the work of the Pentagon Meditation club vis-a-vis
> the present crisis.
> I don't know how much you know or what you think about quantum physics, but
> most of the research is proving what mystics have been teaching for
thousands
> of years - we are all connected in a fabric of Unity in which even a thought
> in one part, affects the whole. This certainly validates our collective
> intention to create a forcefield of Light over the whole Middle East over
the
> next few days as we envision a just and peaceful settlement of this
situation.
> And while we are focusing, we might also ask for a little "God Intervention"
> to lower Bill and Sadaam's testosterone levels:)
> You are one of over 700 on our mailing list from scores of countries
> around the world. I know that many of you from outside of the USA must
pay by
> the minute for internet usage. I will try to be sparing in what and how
often
> I send info, but there will probably be a bit more over the next few days
> until this thing cools out. If you wish to be removed permanently from this
> list or just for these Mideast Updates, just let me know.
> If you wish to share your thoughts or feelings with the US President, his
> e-mail address is: presidentATnospamwhitehouse.gov The e-mail address for the US
> Secretary of State, Madelyn Albright, is secretaryATnospamstate.gov
> Please feel free to share this information with your own network.
>
> Michael Lightweaver
> Network 2012
> Asheville, NC. USA
>
> (Network 2012 is an international network dedicated to linking up "light
> workers" around the world for better communication and cooperation toward
> positive Planetary Transformation. It's all explained on our website at
> http://www.n2012.com)
>
> ------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "It is when the world seems the furthest away from peace, that it is
closest."
> Says Twyman, in his book The Emissary of Light, w
> for humanity to accept responsibility
> for what it has created," quotes Twyman of the Emissaries. "Each one of
us has
> the power to become an emissary of light and make a difference for peace."
>
> Twyman states that the Emissaries, taught him that a major shift is
happening
> on our planet and that it is now time for the mystics and the peacemakers
> among us to come forward to help people awaken to heal themselves and the
> world.
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 8:52:05 AM
> From: lorwinATnospamvisuallink.com
> Subj: Intervention in Iraq - Spiritual Defense Option
> To: LightweaveATnospamaol.com
>
> Subject: "INTERVENTION IN IRAQ - NEW DIPLOMATIC OPTION"
>
> Date: Feb. 3,1998
>
> From: Peacemakers International & The Pentagon Meditation Club
>
>
>
> Contact: Edward Winchester
>
> PO Box 2536, Winchester VA 22604
>
> [540] 888-8460 FAX: [540] 888-9182
>
> e-mail: edwinATnospamvisuallink.com
>
> or: lorwinATnospamvisuallink.com
>
>
>
> For Immediate Press Release: copies sent to White House, Congress and
others.
>
> [Note: Pentagon Meditation Club (PMC), The Pentagon, Wash. DC (founded1976)
> for spiritual renewal inside the Pentagon].
>
>
>
> INTERVENTION IN IRAQ - SPIRITUAL DEFENSE OPTION
>
> USA Today (Friday, January 30, 1998) reported that French Foreign
Minister
> Hubert Vedrine with Madeleine Albright at his side said, "All options are
open
> on Iraq". How open really is the United States Administration to exploring
> options for peacemaking with Iraq? After months of political and diplomatic
> maneuvering, there is still one option that has not been explored. That is,
> the Spiritual Defense option, an idea pioneered at the Pentagon in the
1980´s.
>
>
>
> The first test of the Spiritual Defense idea was officially
>
> sponsored by the Office of the Secretary of Defense at the Lorton
>
> Correctional Facilities in Virginia (1980-1983). Drawing on ideas from
> Quantum Physics and Unified Field Theory the Spiritual Defense option
involved
> a simulation to demonstrate the use of prayer/meditation to facilitate
> peacemaking in a hostile environ
> Each cell block had the code name of a
> country in the Mid-East. The demonstration produced impressive results that
> were reported to the Secretary of Defense by the
>
> Government of the District of Columbia.
>
>
>
> A second project initiated at the Pentagon, which aimed to
>
> demonstrate Spiritual Defense (1986 to 1988), culminated with a
delegation of
> Soviets participating in the 1988 Annual National Prayer Breakfast. For the
> first time in history a dozen Soviets joined with over 400 US military and
> civilian personnel all praying together for an end to the cold war in the
> Pentagon´s executive dining room. At that prayer meeting the Soviets
> presented their proposal for military exchanges. A few months later the
> Pentagon Meditation Club, which was responsible for the demonstration
project,
> served as facilitator for getting this idea officially adopted by the US
> Secretary of Defense and the Soviet Minister of Defense. In July 1988 the
> Pentagon announced a US-USSR Military-to-Military Exchange Program, a major
> breakthrough in cold war relations between the US and USSR.
>
>
>
> Now, Sadam Hussein calls for a Jihad, a holy war to end the cold war
> between Iraq and the United States and its allies. The response from the
> United States side is unfortunately to prepare for a military confrontation
> instead of a holy war. United States military personnel are not trained in
> the art and science of spiritual warfare. Consequently, Spiritual Defense is
> still an open option for negotiations and peacemaking with Iraq.
>
>
> The Pentagon needs to organize a Spiritual Defense Force For the United
> States by mustering spiritual warriors for the Jihad declared by Iraq.
Before
> the Defense Department leads another a military charge on Bagdad, and
when all
> else has already failed, try the Spiritual Defense option. Spiritual Defense
> works! Only God can transform relations between Iraq and the United States.
> The war option is an unnecessary evil. War will bring evil consequences for
> everyone concerned.
>
>
<..snipped>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:59:22 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: More of Us?
Message-Id: <l03130303b11381c738bcATnospam[126.0.0.108]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
<X-No-Archive: yes>
Meditation? Not yet. I will... any time now... when I get a round tuit...
Chant? No. Pray? Every day.
Yoga? Not yet. I will... any day now...
OBE? Almost. Got scared as I felt myself being drawn upward, and made it stop.
Agnostic? What day is today? Friday? Yes, er, no, er.... I plead the fifth.
Shaktipat? Nope. Never even hoid of da woid until this list...
Thanks for asking,
amckeon
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:10:00 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: Danijel Turina <dturinaATnospamusa.net>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Solving the Iraqi Crisis
Message-ID: <34ED5671.6477ATnospamintercomm.com>
Danijel Turina wrote:
>
> Hi Ed! :)
>
> At 18:50 1998.02.19 -0500, you wrote:
> >Dear Bill Clinton -El Presidente,
Gloria here:
I've been waiting to see if you would offer some insight on the war
situation and also that in Bosnia, how is it going now?
> >
>
> Are you serious with that or is there a joke somewhere in it that I fail to
> see? ;)))) I have seen this mentality in action - remember, there was a
> serious war in my back yard? If you drop the leaflets, they'll just use
> them as toilet paper. ;)))) It doesn't work this way, this fairy-tale
> new-age way of seeing conflicts. Like, there are really nice Iraqi folks
> and the bad, bad satan-character in the position of power, where only
> Hussein has to be removed in order for love and peace to take over. There
> is always a complex collective consciousness that creates such deviant
> situations - pre-WW2 Germany for instance, or Serbia. Xenophobia, paranoia,
> fear, agression - all those things channeled and focused to "the others",
> and "the leader" is created from that consciousness, not the other way
> around. The thing you are suggesting (unless it is a joke) would only
> strengthen Hussein's position in the eyes of the Iraqi people - the same
> thing happened with that Somalian warlord Aydid or whatever the US tried to
> eliminate - he instantly became a national hero. "He's so powerful the
> entire world is afraid of him. He is the one we should follow". Actually,
> the only way I can think of the US could turn the Iraqi people against
> Hussein would be to tell everyone how cooperative he was with the
> international community, and to congratulate the Iraqi people on their
> choice of leadership. His head would probably roll in a matter of days. ;>
> ;))))))
>
> -----
> E-mail : dturinaATnospamusa.net
> Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:35:55 -0600
From: Kathy <deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: More of us?
Message-ID: <34EDDB18.C06731BBATnospamfull-moon.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
1. How many of us have meditated
yes, frequently
2. How many of us chant or pray
chant silently while meditating
3. How many of us do hatha yoga exercises with or without mediation
Have done in the past, don't currently.
4. how many of us have experienced Near Death Experiences (NDE's) or
Out of
body experiences (OBE)
Possibly one NDE (tonsillectomy anesthetic), one or more OBE's (or vivid
dreams mimicking OBE)
5. Are any of us still agnostic
Hmm...I dunno about that...still haven't made up my mind as to precisely
where I stand in the "isms' department.
6. How many of us have experienced Shaktipat
Not as far as I know, unless through Mystress' grounding page. That's
possible.
--Delirium (Kath)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:58:57 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
To: "'lodpressATnospamintercomm.com'" <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
Cc: "'kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com'" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: white descent and red ascent
Message-ID: <01BD3DF6.ECF21860.keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
Gloria,
I think earlier we had a discussion about the role of the ``descent of
grace'' and the crown cakra.
The view that I have been adhering to is that the white descent from above
and the red ascent from below are like two two pieces of a puzzle are two
elements of a chemical reaction. In this regard neither can be considered
superior or inferior.
Recently I reviewed some of my old personal diaries and I found an entry I
made about 10 years ago:
``The white descent from above is the highest and purest energy to which I
have access. I cannot come into contact with this energy without becoming
more centered and compassionate.''
Which got me thinking more about my direct experience and less about the
models of experience that I have been given by the great traditions.
Subjectively there does seem to be a superiority of the white descent. It
has more qualities that we associate with evolution.
Still I'm puzzled. There's a quote by Gurjieff that goes something like:
``Do not allow the lion [red ascending energy?] to devour the lamb [white
descending energy?] or the lamb to soften the lion.'' So I am inclined
again to return to the notion that the union of the compassionate white and
the dynamic red energy is more profound than either independently.
Then there's also the view that there is a *new* cosmic energy manifesting
at this time and that it is attuned to at the crown. This energy is a new
evolving force for our age.
Any thoughts? I'll forward this on to kundalini-l. Perhaps others will have
thoughts on this as well.
Kind Regards,
Kurt
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:23:14 -0800
From: Morgana Wyze <morganaATnospambest.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: white descent and red ascent
Message-ID: <34EDE632.35B9ATnospambest.com>
Kurt Keutzer wrote:
> Still I'm puzzled. There's a quote by Gurjieff that goes something like:
> ``Do not allow the lion [red ascending energy?] to devour the lamb [white
> descending energy?] or the lamb to soften the lion.'' So I am inclined
> again to return to the notion that the union of the compassionate white and
> the dynamic red energy is more profound than either independently.
>
In my experience as a full-time energy healer and as a teacher of a
lineage mystery school, there are two issues here. One is the direction
of flow, the other is the type of energy flowed.
When I take new students, their first year is spent clearing the
chakras and strengthening energy flow. They are taught to bring red
energy up from the earth and also white energy down from the crown. The
most important part of their training at this point is daily grounding
exercises.
Their second year is spent working with higher vibration energies and
upper chakras while still remaining grounded. The right and left
hemipsheres of the brain balance now and intergrate for full function.
Grounding is often a challenge now and must become second nature. They
draw energy effortlessly from both ground and sky. They also focus on
moving chi as a red fire up the spine to the crown.
In the third year they are displaying psychic gifts and have come to
rely upon the higher energy frequencies. They are grounded and move
easily in and out of altered states. Now I change their training so that
they ground up into the chakra above the crown. Once the energy flow is
consistantly moving upwards at all times we focus on strengthening chi
in the body, both as a breath (wind) and as a red fire which moves in
the belly. If the chi were not strengthened their bodies would become
frail.
Morgana
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:22:10 EST
From: DruoutATnospamaol.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: More of us
Message-ID: <554468ed.34ede5f4ATnospamaol.com>
Dear list.
Realized I hadn't yet answered my own poll. Not fair!
Meditation: Never have meditated
Chant: Never
Prayer: not unless I'm in a tight scrape!
Hatha Yoga: Yes
NDE &OBE No
Agnostic: I'm attaching myself to Richard's "Transcendental Agnostic" term!
Shaktipat: Have been close to my twin sister's Tibetan teachers, but don't
think so.
Love, Hillary
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:17:16 EST
From: DruoutATnospamaol.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Interim poll results
Message-ID: <38708cf.34ede4ceATnospamaol.com>
Thanks to everyone who has responded so far!!
I wanted to give you all some interim results and to give encouragment to
those who haven't yet answered......
23 people have responded, with often wonderfully insightful replies.
On Meditation:
20 of us have meditated, 2 of these only years ago, 1 only After K had risen
3 have never meditated (including myself)
Prayer: 16 answered yes to prayer 4 no
Chanting 12 of us chant (seldom to daily)
Hatha Yoga. 8 do at least some Hatha Yoga exercises.
1 of these only after K had risen
1 of these in the past
12 no's (3 of these mentioned doing Tai chi or other exercises)
NDE's 5
OBE's 7
Agnostic 5, including 3 transcendental agnostics (thanks to Richard's new
term!)
1 former
Many responded never having been.
Shaktipat 7 strong yeses
6 unsures due to friend's K's or close proximities, etc.
The most powerful correlation seems to be meditation. All but three of
those who responded have meditated at least at some point. The next strongest
seems to be prayer. Interesting, I think!
Love, Hillary More later I hope!
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:37:40 -0500
From: Antoine <acarreATnospamconcentric.net>
To: "keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu" <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>,
"Mailing list (Kundalini)" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: white descent and red ascent
Message-ID: <34EDE993.8BC761F7ATnospamconcentric.net>
Hello Kurt,
Kurt Keutzer wrote:
> Gloria,
> I think earlier we had a discussion about the role of the ``descent of
> grace'' and the crown cakra.
> The view that I have been adhering to is that the white descent from above
> and the red ascent from below are like two two pieces of a puzzle are two
> elements of a chemical reaction. In this regard neither can be considered
> superior or inferior.
For me the ascent and the descent are two sides of the same coin, or the same
"energy", as the wave and particle side of normal light is. We cannot grasp
both at the same time most of the time.
Feeling the red ascent, for me only means that the body vibration in average is
lower than the heart chakra vibration. We thus fell see energy from the yin
side. It seems to flow up then.
Feeling/being the white descend of energy, only means the body average
vibration is higher that the heart chakra vibration. We thus fell/are energy
from the yang side.
I'm actually seeking the infinite horizon where those two sides join, the
alchemical reaction... Not being only in the One over the crown and not only in
the All. One and ALL as the same.
> Still I'm puzzled. There's a quote by Gurjieff that goes something like:
> ``Do not allow the lion [red ascending energy?] to devour the lamb [white
> descending energy?] or the lamb to soften the lion.'' So I am inclined
> again to return to the notion that the union of the compassionate white and
> the dynamic red energy is more profound than either independently.
This is from Karlfried Graf Durkckheim, translating it from my french
translation.
"The subject lives completely himself as true Self only in the living tension
between the Essential Being and the natural self. As long as the subject
identifies itself to only one of those two polarities, none of those is seen by
him in full consciousness".
I would say that as a living being what you said is true Kurt about what is
more profound.
> Then there's also the view that there is a *new* cosmic energy manifesting
> at this time and that it is attuned to at the crown. This energy is a new
> evolving force for our age.
I believe the new energy is simply pushing up the frequency at witch this
alchemical blend normally occurs in us. A bit like a change in pressure system
will change the temperature at which water boils.
Hope it helps,
I'm very interested in this discussion
Antoine
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:55:27 +0100
From: Danijel Turina <dturinaATnospamusa.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Solving the Iraqi Crisis
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980220215527.009972d0ATnospampop.netaddress.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Gloria! :)
At 11:10 1998.02.20 +0100, you wrote:
>Danijel Turina wrote:
>>
>> Hi Ed! :)
>>
>> At 18:50 1998.02.19 -0500, you wrote:
>> >Dear Bill Clinton -El Presidente,
>
>Gloria here:
>I've been waiting to see if you would offer some insight on the war
>situation and also that in Bosnia, how is it going now?
Well, the actual situation in both cases has very little in common with
what can be seen on CNN, that's for sure. :) I was laughing my ass off when
they reported from Croatia and never managed to find an even closely
accurate map - and yet managed to say things with such certainty as if they
heard them from God. :))))) I see things like this: the US military has
several reasons to play war games:
1. maintaining the focus on the mil. in order to maintain/increase the mil.
budget
2. test weapons and strategies in action
3. Iraq is a strategic threat - close to the oil, strong military
technology and a potential nuclear factor. They tried controlling it,
failed, and now are attempting to neutralize its military power
permanently. That is quite easy stuff to figure out, one doesn't need to be
a military genius. :)
As for the bio/chemical weapons, the main problem is Israel's most probable
full nuclear response to the large scale bio/chemical warfare. It too isn't
that hard to figure out. Therefore, in order not ever to come to that, US
military analysts advised military action. That is somewhat wider
perspective - I don't at all think it has much to do with Bill Clinton's
testosterone or adrenaline level, it is most certainly a well planned
strategic move, and actually, it does make a certain degree of sense - from
the military strategic perspective, that is. The UN sanctions even made
Saddam Hussein stronger, since their effect was focused to the general
population and not the government and military. Iraqi people don't analyze
the situation much, their logic mostly goes like "the rest of the world
united to impose sanctions upon us, and now my children are hungry and lack
the medical care when ill. They are cruel people. Hussein is a tyrant and I
don't like him at all, but if we didn't have him to stand up to them, who
knows what might happen". And that does not at all include any jihad talk,
just a normal person observing the immediate consequences of the UN
sanctions. In what positive way could throwing leaflets containing
propaganda help, I can not imagine. If you humiliate people and put them in
a cage, don't be surprised if they do their best to bite you. I personally
think that sanctions are as bad as the military intervention - pure
violence, and it hurts mostly innocent people who have little or nothing to
do with war games.
As for Croatia/Bosnia, at first it was a very simple situation, then it
became more complex, and right now it is a barrel of dynamite - practically
everybody was hurt by everybody else and there is so much hate there I
don't think it will be forgotten easily.
How did it start? When SFRJ broke up, there was an increase in the
nationalist tensions on all sides - especially Croats and Serbs. If the
things were let to run their course, without the weapons involved, they
would swear at each other, that's for sure, but I sincerely doubt it would
at any time exceed violence exchanged between police and the hooligans
after a soccer game. If there were no weapons involved; unfortunately, the
Serbs (official Serbian government) had the weapons, distributed it to the
Serb minorities all over Croatia and Bosnia, incited rebellion, and moved
major military forces to occupy the territory they wanted for themselves.
At first it didn't seem like much, we all laughed when the Serbs put logs
and rocks on the roads and rails - the police would have fixed all that in
a couple of days - if there weren't for the weapons. It would probably blow
itself out in a matter of weeks or months, and then it would be business as
usual.
As for the Bosnia, it is a much more complex situation - the Muslims are a
majority, 40%. Unlike the Croats, they weren't prepared for the war, they
were caught by surprise mostly due to the incompetent leadership and
complete lack of understanding of the situation. The Croats somehow managed
to stand their ground, and the Muslims were mostly overrun. That created an
imbalance and the Muslims' terribly injured dignity which resulted in
extreme growth of their own aggressiveness - they were too weak to face the
Serbs, and so they attacked the Croats - actually it was mostly the fault
of the Wance-Owen plan which gave the Croats an unproportionally large
amount of territory, and the Muslims panicked. The Croats were well armed
and trained and managed to stand their ground, but at great cost in human
lives and suffering on both sides - even more on the Muslim side. Later,
the Croatia increased its military power to a degree sufficient to level
the Serbs, and so they did, completely crushed the Serb forces in Croatia
and Bosnia, but were stopped by the US before they were able to take more
territory - there actually was no resistance from the Serbs worth
mentioning, they panicked and started to evacuate.
The current situation is so charged with hate, animosity, fear, hurt, and
all the other negative emotions that I start shaking when I tune into that
- human life is not worth much there. Actually I even talked to a guy that
came to Zagreb from Sarajevo - he was carrying a gun and I felt he could
have killed me or anybody else just like that, killing someone who pisses
you off is a normal thing. Absolutely horrifying. Maybe the only possible
solution is to peacefully separate Bosnia, not in two but three entities,
and let the time heal the wounds - then, they would probably re-unite. I
fear that this situation is maintained by pure force and threats and there
is no inner cohesion that would join people. Too much hate, and hate
separates. It takes love to join.
I am sorry for the long post - I tried to express only the facts relevant
for forming a more detailed view, but it seems like every time I try doing
that I end up writing a novel. :))) Sorry. :)
-----
E-mail : dturinaATnospamusa.net
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
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