1998/02/20 07:00
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #138
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 138
Today's Topics: RE: prana vs kundalini [ Deborah ]
Re: More of us? [ DruoutATnospamaol.com ] Re: prana and kundalini [ Gloria Greco ]
RE: More of us? [ Dirk_HaueterATnospamhrsoft.com (Dirk Hauet ] RE: More of us? [ Deborah ]
Solving the Iraqi Crisis [ "Ed Arrons" ] Re: Solving the Iraqi Crisis [ Christina ]
Re: More of us? [ Peswani ] poll [ hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Ba ]
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:18:39 -0500 From: Deborah
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: RE: prana vs kundalini
Message-Id:
At 10:01 AM 2/19/98 PST, you wrote:
>Hello there friends- > I did some research at work yesterday regarding the prana question and
>got some definitions and also an opinion or two. Now I would like to >share them with you.
Hi all,
This is one of the lurkers, coming out to share my opinion on this subject. I teach Hatha Yoga, incorporating Pranayama (control of
breath) and more recently, Kundalini Yoga. Tho I have been teaching 5+, and studying 20+ years, I do not profess to be an expert, so I too did some
research to validate my beliefs.I would like to share.
>From my research, (and experience) Prana (capitol P) refers to the
Universal Life-energy..not Oxygen, but Life Energy. It enters from the Chandra, Moon Center, (back of head at medulla oblongata region) and
descends down the spine. Its ascent and descent is modified by the chakras open or blocked. It is said, "There is no principle, no austerity,
knowledge, state, treasure or other thing superior to Pranayama, so that whatever spiritual disciplines are performed without Pranayama become
fruitless."
prana...small p...mainifests itself as Hong Sau, aiding the continual
respirational preocess, allowing life. Its center is in the Venus Center (the heart)
The average being breathes about 22,000 times a day, each time the downward
(apana) current strikes the "static latent spiritual energy" (Kundalini) in the Saturn Center (root chakra).
It is said when Pranayama is successful (striking the root chakra strongly)
it awakens K .which....well, we all know the rest!!!
Does this make sense?
So...Pranayama (control of breath) can be focused to awaken K, or intensify it. Pranayama done with the root lock and throat lock...
POW!!!! That is why in my classes, well....some of my students KNOW when this occurs for me!!! The whole shift in the class when
this occurs for many, makes me wonder how the "newbies" feel...you know?
I love this stuff!! :))
Namaste,
Deborah Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:35:00 EST
From: DruoutATnospamaol.com To: MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: More of us?
Message-ID:
Dear Michele,
I'd love it if you, or others would add new questions to the poll! I'd like to add:
"How many of us have experienced Shaktipat (Enlightment via Guru)."
6 people have answered so far--Plus two people answering one question only.
Hey, lurkers out there--Answers will be confidential! just Yeses or nos would
be wonderful!
1. How many of us have meditated 2. How many of us chant or pray
3. How many of us do hatha yoga exercises with or without mediation 4. how many of us have experienced Near Death Experiences (NDE's) or Out of
body experiences (OBE) 5. Are any of us still agnostic
6. How many of us have experienced Shaktipat
I feel the more information we have the better we are able cope with this extraordinary thing.
Thanks, Love, HIllary
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:19:14 +0100 From: Gloria Greco
To: "Vandyke,T 355MSS/DPMPE" CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: prana and kundalini Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Kurt Keutzer wrote:
> >
> Here are some thoughts gathered from my FAQ, from other recent postings > and from some last minute musings:
> > On prana and kundalini:
> > >From the subjective standpoint of an individual actually experiencing
> the awakening of kundalini I have found three completely different > opinions:
> The first opinion is that a pranic awakening is only a prelude to a > full kundalini awakening. Tibetan yogins that I have encountered
> consider the activation of prana (Tibetan: rlung) as merely a > prerequisite for the activation of kundalini (Tibetan: gTummo). What's
> attractive about this viewpoint is that it explains the difference > between the experience of simply having pleasant sensations in the
> spine and the much more powerful experience of having a > ``freight-train''-like full kundalini experience.
> > The second opinion, espoused by Swami Shivom Tirth for example, is that
> prana and kundalini are absolutely equivalent and that it is not > meaningful in any way to describe a difference between kundalini rising
> and prana rising. When posed with question as to how to distinguish > between pleasant sensations that show some pranic-activity in the spine
> and the much more powerful experience Swami Shivom Tirth said that the > difference is not in the nature of the activity but in the
> consciousness that observes it. If the consciousness that experiences > the pranic activity is seated within the spine (or more correctly, the
> central channel, known as the sushumna), then the experience is felt > much more powerfully.
> > The third opinion, espoused by the modern hatha yogin, Desikacar, is
> that pranic awakening is the true experience to be aimed for and > kundalini is actually an obstruction. Desikacar sees the kundalini as a
> block in the central channel and thus the kundalini must be ``killed'' > to make way for the prana. This is the most unusual view of the three. ''
> > With due reverence to Swami Shivom Tirth I subscribe to the first view.
> I would certainly agree that while a pranic piercing of the cakras > is a profound experience it is still not sufficient for
> enlightenment. The second possibility is the difference between kundalini > rising through a cakra and a complete piercing of the cakra. I think most
> readers of this group must have experienced a lightning-like rising of > kundalini all the way to the crown or sahasrara. I do think
> that this is kundalini rising but I don't think this could be considered a > piercing of the cakras. So what is a piercing? I believe a piercing is when
> there is a permanent elimination of the knot at a cakra. >
> In my limited experience the flow of prana is associated with a pleasant > tingling and mild ``electric'' charge. The area feels more vitality.
> As long as the prana is not in the central channel there is a clear maintenance > of a ``normal'' waking consciousness with a subject-object dichotomy.
> When prana enters the central channel then the character of the experience > changes dramatically. The mind becomes centered. There is a good description
> of the stages of this experience in the Svetashvatara Upanishad and also > in Tibetan yogic literature. Briefly, the solidity of the body
> feels like it dissolves. First earth dissolves - you feel like your body > is no longer sharply defined. Then water you still have a sense of locality
> but it is not defined at clearly. Then stage by stage your individuality > dissolves ... eventually into clear light.
> > OTOH -in my limited experience, when the *kundalini* rises
> in the central channel then the mind is naturally > and immediately drawn into a powerful (from a subjective standpoint) samadhi.
> As kundalini rises the individuality is obliterated - not slowly dissolved > as in the pranic awakening.
> Kundalini has only been at my sahasrara for brief > periods of time but during these times I experienced a total unity with the
> entire universe. In these brief periods thoughts were too pitiful and > insignificant to influence the state in any way.
> When one's awareness has merged with the entire > universe (or at least that is the subjective experience) then what is the
> meaning of cultivating awareness or becoming aware of the divine will? And > since the universe is comprehended by one's own consciousness where would
> the Holy Spirit come from and where would it go? >
> But this is just my experience - no more no less. I don't think there is > anything definitive about it and I hope people don't feel that I am trying
> to play a ``my experience is superior to yours'' game. I think that there > are many others who have valuable experiences to share. I also can never
> write up a ``summary'' like this without evolving my understanding. Who knows > what I'll think about things next time.
> > Kind Regards,
> Kurt
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher. Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
& http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them! Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:47:07 -0500
From: "Sharon Webb" To:
Subject: unwitting shaktipat Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0150_01BD3D4D.A1A71620"
Hillary,
you wrote:
>6. How many of us have experienced Shaktipat
How about unwitting Shaktipat? Does that count? If so, I'll raise my hand.
Six years ago, I went with a small group to a powerful energy worker at a metaphysical center. We were asked what we wanted to manifest during the hands on healing. Well...I was feeling fine. No aches, no pains, no illness, so I wrote down "enlightenment."
Well I was...to say the least...PROFOUNDLY ignorant of k, shaktipat, etc. at that time. I immediate went into an altered state and started seeing visions that culminated with a thousand petaled lotus above my crown. At least that's what I know it was now. I can still see it as plainly as if it were a photograph. But at the time, I didn't know what it was...so I thanked him for the "beautiful white chrysanthemum" and went on my way. :-)
Shortly after that, I had a nightmare (the last nightmare I have had, BTW). In the nightmare, I was in a tiny bathroom washing my face. Eyes closed, I reached behind me for a towel and felt something move under my hand. I had pinned a giant cobra against the wall. The thing was bigger than I was. It was spread and very powerful. I knew that if I let go it would strike. So I hung on...and felt its power...and felt myself growing weaker and weaker.
Needless to say, it got me. :-)
For me, k didn't go into high gear until 1997, but when I look back on the changes in my life, I realize that it actually started back then in a subtle form.
Sharon
shawebbATnospamyhc.edu A new fractal gallery was posted to this site on Jan. 1, '98:
http://www.fractalus.com/sharon/ USA Today Hot Site; Cosmic Site of the Night: Cool Central Site of the Day;
ENC Digital Dozen; Enchantment Award; ArtSearch Featured Site; NetTech NeatTech: Best of the Web; Eye Candy, Honorable Mention;
Studyweb Featured Site; Lotus Light Award; Wave of the Day featured site
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kundal86"
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:02:46 -0500 From: Dirk_HaueterATnospamhrsoft.com (Dirk Haueter)
To: DruoutATnospamaol.com, MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: More of us? Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part
I'm not sure how this info would be useful but ..
1. How many of us have meditated
yes much 2. How many of us chant or pray
yes again 3. How many of us do hatha yoga exercises with or without mediation
yes 4. how many of us have experienced Near Death Experiences (NDE's) or Out of
body experiences (OBE) no
5. Are any of us still agnostic no, not agnostic
6. How many of us have experienced Shaktipat Not formally. I've met a lot of saints but so far no peacock feathers.
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:55:40 -0500 From: Deborah
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: RE: More of us?
Message-Id:
At 03:02 PM 2/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
Ok..i will answer...
1. How many of us have meditated... **Daily
2. How many of us chant or pray...**Daily
3. hatha yoga exercises with or without mediation ***Almost Daily
4. experienced (NDE's) or (OBE) **NDE, 2 OBE..Often
5. Are any of us still agnostic ** Never have been
6. How many of us have experienced Shaktipat ***Yes Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:50:47 -0500
From: "Ed Arrons" To:
Cc: Subject: Solving the Iraqi Crisis
Message-Id:
Dear Bill Clinton -El Presidente,
Bombing is no solution to the Iraqi Crisis. Everyone knows this and you have intimated that yourself.
How about we make this offer:
Saddam Hussein- step down from power, hold democratic elections under
U.N. auspices and sanctions will be lifted.
Then drop leaflets all over Iraq informing the people of this offer. What will they think of him if he refuses and how will he look in their eyes. That's a
lot of pressure.
Everybody wins but Saddam and he can see himself as a self-sacrificing hero of the people. Bye-bye Saddam.
Do the right thing Bill. And may the 'K' be with you.
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:19:04 -0500 From: Christina
To: Ed Arrons CC: lodpressATnospamintercomm.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Solving the Iraqi Crisis Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have a suggestion! Why don't we get together and send them all the love and well
wishes we can muster and see if perhaps that wonderful vibe can ignite their hearts enough that they work it out from the inside.
Love and peace
Christina
Ed Arrons wrote:
> Dear Bill Clinton -El Presidente, >
> Bombing is no solution to the Iraqi Crisis. Everyone knows this and you > have intimated that yourself.
> > How about we make this offer:
> > Saddam Hussein- step down from power, hold democratic elections under
> U.N. auspices and sanctions will be lifted. >
> Then drop leaflets all over Iraq informing the people of this offer. What will > they think of him if he refuses and how will he look in their eyes. That's a
> lot of pressure. >
> Everybody wins but Saddam and he can see himself as a self-sacrificing hero > of the people. Bye-bye Saddam.
> > Do the right thing Bill. And may the 'K' be with you.
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:14:47 +0500 (GMT+0500) From: Peswani
To: DruoutATnospamaol.com Cc: MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: More of us? Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 DruoutATnospamaol.com wrote:
> > 1. How many of us have meditated
Yes , regularly for last 5.5 years
> 2. How many of us chant or pray Never
> 3. How many of us do hatha yoga exercises with or without mediation Never
> 4. how many of us have experienced Near Death Experiences Never
(NDE's) or Out of > body experiences (OBE)
Once > 5. Are any of us still agnostic
Yes, I am > 6. How many of us have experienced Shaktipat
Never> shahanshah>
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:29:55 +0800 (SST)
From: Periasamy Balakrishnan To: DruoutATnospamaol.com
cc: MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: More of us?
Message-ID:
Hello,
I am new comer to this kundalini discussion group, joined 2 days back. My
response:
> 1. How many of us have meditated Yes. Simplified Kundalini Yoga.
> 2. How many of us chant or pray No.
> 3. How many of us do hatha yoga exercises with or without mediation Yes.
> 4. how many of us have experienced Near Death Experiences (NDE's) or Out of > body experiences (OBE)
No. > 6. How many of us have experienced Shaktipat
I was initiated by a guru called Vedathri Maharishi, lives in India.
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:41:33 EST From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Cc: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com
Subject: Re: Drugs, Marijuana and Kundalini Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Harsha writes: Recently someone again mentioned the classical Kundalini
awakening symptoms through the use of drugs (Strong electric voltage shooting up the spine from the tail bone (muladhara) and bursts up from the navel
(manipura) etc.). A cautionary note. Although many people do come to the spiritual path after having used mind altering drugs, the use of such
substances has the potential to cause mental and physical problems. Even Marijuana (along with other mind altering drugs) can be harmful to some people
who are pre-disposed to the Kundalini awakening. It can facilitate a premature and an abnormal awakening which can lead to much psychic suffering. The drug
may leave the body after a few weeks but the subtle impact of an abnormal awakening can cause fears, anxiety, panic attacks etc., which may take
considerably longer to get over. Self-Enquiry, Meditation, Contemplation, Pranayama, Prayer are the proper means to awaken the Kundalini Shakti in the
spiritual context. Awakening of the Kundalini is the a b c of the spiritual path. The Shakti manifests in its fullness and leads to the "peace that
passeth all understanding" only when the foundation of purity has first been laid.
Harsha
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:43:04 EST From: Esnshl4meATnospamaol.com
To: DruoutATnospamaol.com, MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: More of us? Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>Hillary said "Hey, lurkers out there-"<
... Okay Hillary, here's response from a "Lurker"...
1. How many of us have meditated
yes, to this one. Regularly. 2. How many of us chant or pray
yes to prayer 3. How many of us do hatha yoga exercises with or without mediation
yes to Hatha Yoga, find it meditative. And my instructor's a great mediator, too! :)
4. how many of us have experienced Near Death Experiences (NDE's) or Out of body experiences (OBE)
OBE, not yet. NDE.... well there was that kid pointing a gun at my chest... but ... nope, guess that's not what you meant.
5. Are any of us still agnostic I don't know about anyone else on the list. For myself? Nope! Just
have a poor memory. 6. How many of us have experienced Shaktipat
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 03:50:59 GMT From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: More of us?
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-No-Archive: yes
1. How many of us have meditated
Yes
2. How many of us chant or pray
No
3. How many of us do hatha yoga exercises with or without mediation
No
4. how many of us have experienced Near Death Experiences (NDE's) or Out of > body experiences (OBE)
No
5. Are any of us still agnostic
Yes
6. How many of us have experienced Shaktipat
Yes
Jack Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:11:16 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: Peswani To: kundalini-l
Subject: Prana vs kundalini Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Prana vs Kundalini energy Prana energy is the subtle omnipresent energy .
Kundalini energy is various layers of astral energy which has to evolve thro life to become Prana energy by the process of AWARENESS.
Prana energy can be only felt thro mind awareness only. Kundalini energy can be felt by even crude physical body thro pain
or sensations etc. Awareness of Prana energy takes one to Suniata or Nirvana towards
higher evolution. Awareness of Kundalini energy takes one to Deva loka of saints and
a soul has to come down to human life to reevolve to Nirvana at some stage for survival.
prana energy is beyond pain and bliss and beyond good or bad. Kundalini energy can be good or bad causing bliss or pain.
Prana energy is beyond solar light and also beyond darkness. Kundalini energy in refined form comes out as light in awareness
meditation(contrasting darkness) and further purification or transcending of this kundalini energy will take one beyond light or darkness towards
Suniata. Kundalini energy is dirt in the body to be cleaned with Prana
energy as per shahanshah.
For some kundalini energy is Goddess with powers and siddhis and
is to be worshipped. They are right in their thinking. Because their evolution probably ends there. BUT THEN THEY WOULD NEVER KNOW OR FEEL
PRANA ENERGY. FOR THEM PRANA WILL ONLY REMAIN AS A WORD.
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:12:17 -0500 From: tgxxxATnospamjuno.com (tg langston)
To: shawebbATnospamyhc.edu Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: nightmares Message-ID:
Sharon wrote:
<Shortly after that, I had a nightmare (the last nightmare I have had, = BTW).
I find that interesting Sharon.... I have had regular nightmares (99% of
them about spiders) since I was 6 years old when I ran into a HUGE spider and its web that scared the pee-rooney out of me. As an adult, I
continued waking up several times a month screaming from a spider nightmare.
Since my kundalini awakening, I haven't had nary a one. My only
explanation for that is the bit of lucid dreaming I can do now (in my wakefulness & sleeptime) and realize that any fearful things are just
dreams and illusions, and I've carried that forth into my dreams, and the scary things just disappear.
Dream on...
xxxtg
* Time wounds all heels *
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Solving the Iraqi Crisis Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Ed! :)
At 18:50 1998.02.19 -0500, you wrote: >Dear Bill Clinton -El Presidente,
> >Bombing is no solution to the Iraqi Crisis. Everyone knows this and you
>have intimated that yourself. >
>How about we make this offer: >
>Saddam Hussein- step down from power, hold democratic elections under >U.N. auspices and sanctions will be lifted.
> >Then drop leaflets all over Iraq informing the people of this offer. What
will >they think of him if he refuses and how will he look in their eyes. That's a
>lot of pressure. >
>Everybody wins but Saddam and he can see himself as a self-sacrificing hero >of the people. Bye-bye Saddam.
Are you serious with that or is there a joke somewhere in it that I fail to
see? ;)))) I have seen this mentality in action - remember, there was a serious war in my back yard? If you drop the leaflets, they'll just use
them as toilet paper. ;)))) It doesn't work this way, this fairy-tale new-age way of seeing conflicts. Like, there are really nice Iraqi folks
and the bad, bad satan-character in the position of power, where only Hussein has to be removed in order for love and peace to take over. There
is always a complex collective consciousness that creates such deviant situations - pre-WW2 Germany for instance, or Serbia. Xenophobia, paranoia,
fear, agression - all those things channeled and focused to "the others", and "the leader" is created from that consciousness, not the other way
around. The thing you are suggesting (unless it is a joke) would only strengthen Hussein's position in the eyes of the Iraqi people - the same
thing happened with that Somalian warlord Aydid or whatever the US tried to eliminate - he instantly became a national hero. "He's so powerful the
entire world is afraid of him. He is the one we should follow". Actually, the only way I can think of the US could turn the Iraqi people against
Hussein would be to tell everyone how cooperative he was with the international community, and to congratulate the Iraqi people on their
choice of leadership. His head would probably roll in a matter of days. ;> ;))))))
-----
E-mail : dturinaATnospamusa.net Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:57:21 -0600 (CST) From: hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: poll
Message-Id:
Yes to meditation and prayer. Yes to hatha yoga, but only after k-awakening; prior to that, dance, martial arts, t'ai-chi. Yes to God
with periods of doubt and distance from time to time. No to OBE's, NDE's, but grew up very hard of hearing so sense of inner and outer is
skewed. No to shaktipat. Holly
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