1998/02/08 21:57
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #110
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 110
Today's Topics: Re: Democracy [ Mystress Angelique Serpent ]
Re: HRTZEN: Re: Anahata and the Hear [ Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com ] Re: Anahata and the Heart [ Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com ]
AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Cen [ cathleen tinder To: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Democracy
Message-Id:
At 16:57 07/02/98 EST, Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com wrote:
>Harsha writes: Perhaps if dear Dieter can promise Angelique to be >restrained in the volumes that he offers, he can be allowed to reincarnate
>back into the list. >
(my slave read this and said, "yes, you are very good at restraining people, perhaps if he was bound and gagged.." LOL!)
So even gentle "don't care" Harsha is desiring for Dieter to change, for him to be allowed back. Wanting him to promise good behavior, like a
wayward child.. and you were not even on the list yet, when he showed up the first time.. if he wanted to change, he would have already.
If he even got to you, Harsha, then I waited too long, to act.. ...but truly your response is a mirror of your own love for this space,
and how you would feel to be ejected from it.. we love you too, Harsha. You are welcome here.
I do not desire Dieter to change. It is apparent from his many posts,
that he is convinced he is perfect, exactly as he is.. as are we all.. blessed be. He can be who he wants, just not on this list.
We cannot know of our perfection, untill we find our niche.. the place where we fit. Till then, the seeker must keep moving on.. I accept that his
path is right for him, it just (in my discernment) is not appropriate for this community's physical limitations and rules of respectful conduct.
Dieter didn't fit, and with blessings, I assisted him to move on.. I wish him "happy trails" finding someplace where he does fit, to give all that
energy to. Someplace that appreciates him as much as we did not. I hope he does start his own list.
Issues of rejection have been flying around this list, lately.. from my
exclusion hearing, to the execution in Texas, to Dieter.. and it is the hardest issue for we, who are trying to learn to love everything
unconditionally, to see that there may be Light, even in the the power of rejection.. helping someone to move on. "Natural selection", in action.
Evolution. Art. Creation and destruction, both are needed.
A work of Art's creation, requres discernment.. deciding more of this and less of that.. less Dieter speeches, more crazy lively croations..
Sometimes when I ask Goddess Her Will, I hear a Richard Bach quote: " "And the voice said to him, "Not my will, but thine be done. for what is
thy will, is mine for thee. Go thy way as other men, and be thou happy upon the earth."
In the path of your happiness, shall you find the learning for which you have chosen this lifetime."
"Follow your bliss.", is how Joseph Campbell put it. Co-creation.
So it is that we pray: "Please, some more of this, and less of that, if it is in the highest good, thankyou Goddess." Thought, word and deed.
"Deleting Dieter", in favor of "Bozo Juretic running wild". Thankyou Goddess. Laughter is the voice of spirit.
So we hold an idea of "don't care, let Goddess choose, and be accepting", but there is Goddess, asking "What do you want?" "What do you think I gave
you the power of prayer for, then, and free will, if not to choose what you want more of???"
My mantra goes "More bliss, more joy, more happiness, more love, more laughter, more money, more creativity, more peace, more K-fire, more
wisdom, ..".. thru all the joys in my life, my passions, as I count my blessings with gratitude like Oliver Twist with his bowl and ask for more,
please.. trusting that it will come from that which cares for my every need with unconditional love.
I am not forwarding this to Dieter, coz I sincerely doubt that he wants
any more opinions from me.. but you can, if you feel like it's important to. blessings, Mystress.
> >
Mystress Angelique Serpent,
Dominant Experiential Facilitator. Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
:D ;) :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :D :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :) I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery
than live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it. -- Harry Emerson Fosdick
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:47:29 +0800 From: "Charles Attfield"
To: "Kundalini Mailing List" Subject: Astrology & Kundalini
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD3548.1EAFD840"
Dear K-list Members,
I have been on the mailing list for a while but, not having had any 'obvious' Kundalini experiences myself, I have not felt I have been able to offer any information or help to the list. However, I am extremely fascinated by the Kundlaini and her immense significance in the evolution of the individual and humanity in general and have read many books on the subject. I am studying for a Masters Degree in Esoteric Psychology and am a qualified astrologer.
I am doing some research on the Kundalini and am particularly interested in trying to find any astrological correspondences. In particular, I want to look at two main areas. Firstly, to see if there are any significant factors in the birth chart which show an increased predisposition for kundalini awakening, and secondly, whether significant progressions, transits, solar returns, etc. can indicate when and how the process is likely to occur. I will be looking at esoteric planetary rulerships as well as traditional.
If any list members are prepared to help in any way, e.g. by supplying birth details and significant dates and occurrences I would appreciate you contacting me on attfieldATnospamtnet.com.au and I will supply a short e-mail questionnaire.
If any list members have already tried to look into this I would appreciate any help or advice.
Thanks
Chas
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kunda108" Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:24:45 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer To: "'Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com'" ,
"tseewATnospamservtech.com" ,
"heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com"
Cc: "dturinaATnospamusa.net" , "kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com"
Subject: RE: Anahata and the Heart
Message-ID:
I know it's probably difficult but I wish posters would keep threads from other lists self contained. Getting snippets of a thread from one list on
another list without getting the entire thread is a little had to follow.
Of course lack of context doesn't keep me from responding :)
Different systems (e.g. Natha, Kashmir Shaivite, Tantric Buddhist) describe the subtle body in different ways with respect to number of cakras in the
subtle body, the number of nadi-petals or channels associated with each cakra, the syllables associated with the petals, the experiences associated
with the cakras and which cakra should be awakened first. Sometimes even within a single system (e.g. tantric Buddhism) there are differences from
sub-school to sub-school. What I take from all this is simply that people had different experiences of their subtle bodies, have found profound
experiences associated with different cakras, and have found
Given that the differences and debates regarding the subtle body have gone on for at least 1000 years (conservatively) it seems unlikely that we are
really going to resolve them here. What I think would be a more interesting and appropriate for the 21st century would be to simply relate our own
experiences, drawing on ``spiritual literature'' not to prove our point but to offer some insight to our experience.
As for myself, any experience that is evoked by the kundalini moving
within the sushumna or central channel has a sense of ultimacy about it. There is a non-duality of consciousness that seems to come as soon as the
central channel is truly penetrated. But when the kundalini moves to the crown - that non-duality no longer has any locality whatsoever and
encompasses the entire universe. Harsha has periodically spoken of kundalini going beyond the sahasrara to the heart. I have not had the
experience. In my limited experience once kundalini has penetrated the crown there is nothing to move and nowhere to go. This viewpoint is echoed
in the literature of the Natha yogins. But this is just my experience.
If I were to try to build a model from what I have read, been taught and experiences it is that true insight can come from any cakra. A Shaivite,
Swami Nityananda pointed out that the Self can be realized anywhere and has no locality at the heart. Buddhists have taught me that the non-duality of
bliss and emptiness can be contemplated at any center.
Kind Regards,
Kurt
-----Original Message-----
From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com [SMTP:Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com] Sent: Saturday, February 07, 1998 6:35 PM
To: tseewATnospamservtech.com; heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com Cc: dturinaATnospamusa.net; kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Anahata and the Heart
In a message dated 98-02-07 19:01:09 EST, tseewATnospamservtech.com writes:
< But anahata isn't the connection to God. The _entire_ system is, mulaadhara-sushumna-sahasraara vertical line. >>
Harsha writes: This conceptualization is misleading in several ways. Adv
anced Yogis can experience the Shakti both in the back and in the front. Many
Nadis in the front develop in later stages. Anahata is the Psychic Heart Center
of Kundalini Yoga and is an important center to develop for many aspirants. It
is safer to develop it first. Many celestial visions arise from this Chakra.
However, when great sages refer to the Heart as the Self, they are not referring to Anahata. The Sanskrit word Hridayam (also translated Heart)
refers to the Ultimate Subject, the Self It Self, which is Self-Existent and
Shines by its own Essence. That Heart, the Reality of Being, is indeed beyond
Sahasarara. That Heart is the very Core of Being and is the Center in which all other centers exist.
Harsha
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:24:34 EST From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
To: annfisherATnospamstic.net, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Intellect as a Guide
Message-ID:
In a message dated 98-02-08 04:39:29 EST, annfisherATnospamstic.net writes:
< We speak of the subtle body (which I take to mean etheric, the next level to the physical) and the centers (which are subtle and not in the physical,
although connected/manifesting through the endocrine glands). >>
Harsha writes: Perhaps you are referring to Pranamaya Kosha when you speak of the subtle body. When I spoke of the subtle or the pure intellect, I meant the
mind functioning in the Vijnanamaya Kosha. Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:40:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Blythe To: hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: menopause/shakti/life changes/whatever
Message-Id:
At 02:30 PM 2/8/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Your title says it all. It's a jumble. In my case I'm pretty sure the >k hastened the menopause but so much was going on who could tell?! And
>it was a time of finding that buds that went into dormancy at 5 and 20 >and 30 were growing again. Nothing is lost. Holly
> Maybe not even dormancy, but a slow underground kind of growth. Subterranean.
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:48:55 EST From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
To: TGarlandATnospamVIPMail.com Cc: tseewATnospamservtech.com, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, dturinaATnospamusa.net,
kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: HRTZEN: Re: Anahata and the Heart
Message-ID:
In a message dated 98-02-07 22:18:12 EST, TGarlandATnospamVIPMail.com writes:
< Harsha,A curiosity: is Anahata in the front or the back? Teresa
>> Harsha writes: An excellent but a complex question. I will be brief. Let your
own experience be your true guide. Anahata like other centers has many different nadis connecting to it. It can be approached (in meditation) both
from the back and front. Sometimes the Shakti may rise spontaneously and may activate the Anahata. In that case the Superconscious experience will come on
quickly (and you may not be aware of any physical sensation in the Heart). However, if you consciously meditate on Anahata in the front (in the middle of
the chest), you may definitely feel a concrete physical sensation before the onsetting of the visionary or Superconscious experience.
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:34:35 EST From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
To: keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu, tseewATnospamservtech.com, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com
Cc: dturinaATnospamusa.net, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Anahata and the Heart
Message-ID:
In a message dated 98-02-08 22:27:17 EST, keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu writes:
< Harsha has periodically spoken of kundalini going beyond the sahasrara to the heart. I have not had the
experience. In my limited experience once kundalini has penetrated the crown there is nothing to move and nowhere to go. This viewpoint is echoed
in the literature of the Natha yogins. But this is just my experience.
Harsha writes: This is true. Yoga Shastras declare that Sahasarara is the final resting place of the Shakti and that, that is where Nirvikalpa Samadhi
takes place. Pursha Sukta declares the Heart (Hridayam) to be the Seat of the Self. Ultimately one must rely on one's own experiences. It is my experience
that many different types of Samadhis can take place in the Sahasarara. And some of them are extremely powerful and intense. One of the "NIrvikalpa
Samadhis" I had at the Sahasarara lasted the whole night, and was one of the only Samadhis where I found it very very difficult to come out of. I don't
know how someone living in complete isolation can survive it as the desire to come out quickly declines. In the morning I felt physically weak but noted the
effects of the Samadhi on my consciousness. In Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi, the Shakti along with the mind comes down from the brain center, and merges in
the Spiritual Heart (Hridayam). Here the breath stops and the Self is Reconized by the Self. Pure and Simple.
Kurt writes: If I were to try to build a model from what I have read, been
taught and experiences it is that true insight can come from any cakra. A Shaivite,
Swami Nityananda pointed out that the Self can be realized anywhere and has no locality at the heart. Buddhists have taught me that the non-duality of
bliss and emptiness can be contemplated at any center. >>
Now Harsha is really smiling: Yes. Beautiful. Absolutely! Self is always Realized and has no locality anywhere. It can be recognized Anywhere at any
Center. Where are all the Centers? They exist in the Heart only. The Heart is only another name for the Self. As long as we speak in relationship to the
body, the Heart or the Sahasarara have certain locations due to the experience of the mind. When one is in the Self, then there is nothing else to be aware
of. Self Knows It Self without thought or doubt. Its nature is that of Being Whole and Complete and in Total Freedom. It is Pure Joy and Eternal Existence.
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:38:25 -1000 (HST) From: cathleen tinder
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id:
I have practiced Tai chi for over a year now, and am curious about whether there is a connection between Chi-or life force and kundalini/chakras. Since I started tai chi, I have experienced an easily accessable awareness of chi, which emmanates sometimes from my spine and other times from my solar plexus. I can't help but feel they may be one in the same. Let me know what you think. thanks,
cathy Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 21:00:19 -0800
From: anandajyoti To: "heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com" ,
"kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com" Subject: Re: Anahata and the Heart
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D120301E173E57BCA66BA216"
Anandajyoti writes:
Kurt and Harsha are respectively right in their views, in certain perspectives.
Kurt indicates that when consciousness is at the Sahasrara there is non duality, everything is one. This condition of the consciousness, however is
not felt or, known while being in that state, because that becomes the reality, and there is no other.
Harsha is right in the sense, that the spiritual heart is the seat of consciousness or the SELF. This can be only be experienced after having come
out of the Unitary State of consciousness at the Sahasrara, the " I", gradually emerges or floats in the conscious plane. It is at this time, that the person,
experiences an blissful state in comparison to the outer reality. at the heart.
The spiritual heart which Harsha alludes to (not a physical one though) has been said to be two fingers to the right, below the physical heart which is on
the left. This is also the "Kalpataru Tree" or the tree of fulfillment of all wishes. The same is denoted in pictures of the heart chakra having twelve
petals, on the inner space of the outer petals is a six pointed star , composed of two triangles, One pointing up and the other pointing down. (Like the six
pointed star of David. Below the heart chakra, is the Anandakanda Lotus, the spiritual heart
(according to Maharshi Ramana). This has been corroborated through Ayur Veda and Sita Upanishad.
>From the Heart chakra emanates 15 yoga nerve threads The hatha yogis make the kundalini activate chakras, in a sequence from the
base to the head. And as Kurt mentions, that Oneness can be experienced at any chakra. This sense of Oneness confers a blissful state for the person, but all
experiences of bliss are not moksha or liberation. Ananda or the blissful state can also be secured through drink or drugs, which in turn also activates
certain chakras of the lower three. But I don't think we can suppose that such bliss is "The Liberating Bliss".
Hatha Yoga processes can secure various forms of the bliss in the gross or subtle bodies, which are not "THE BLISS".
The SELF is the center of the Universe having no circumference, as also, it is everywhere having no center.
Anandajyoti
Kurt Keutzer wrote:
> Different systems Sometimes even > within a single system (e.g. tantric Buddhism) there are differences from
> sub-school to sub-school. What I take from all this is simply that people > had different experiences of their subtle bodies, have found profound
> experiences associated with different cakras, and have found >
> As for myself, any experience that is evoked by the kundalini > moving
> within the sushumna or central channel has a sense of ultimacy about it. > But when the kundalini moves to the crown - that non-duality no
> longer has any locality whatsoever and encompasses the entire universe. > Harsha has periodically spoken of kundalini going beyond the sahasrara to the
> heart. I have not had the > experience. In my limited experience once kundalini has penetrated the
> crown there is nothing to move and nowhere to go. This viewpoint is echoed > in the literature of the Natha yogins. But this is just my
> experience. >
>
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kunda109"
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