1998/01/19 21:08
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #66
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 66
Today's Topics:
Re:Sleep & meditation (was Throat Ch [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
Kundalini-Cancer-Healing [ "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhot ]
[Fwd: Undeliverable: meditations] [ Ray Morel <r.morelATnospamsympatico.ca> ]
mini rant [ "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhot ]
Re: So long for a little while... [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Re: Channeling [ "Orea de Sa' Hana" <oreaATnospamerols.com> ]
introduction [ nkognito <nkognitoATnospamtcon.net> ]
K. gets itchy? Practical stuff.. [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistres ]
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:22:18 -0600
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Cc: Ronel Grosvenor <icsdbn06ATnospamglobal.co.za>, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com
Subject: Re:Sleep & meditation (was Throat Chakra - sleep)
Message-Id: <l03010d02b0e986359391ATnospam[207.71.51.180]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Paul (Ronel Grosvenor <icsdbn06ATnospamglobal.co.za>) wrote:
> Most pleased to hear someone else knows what i'm talking about. This
> maintaining consciousness into sleep I have heard about a long time ago.
I
> have been having lucid dreams as long as i could remember but always
wanted
> more and realized the only way to achieve this effectively would be to
> maintain consiousness from waking state.
Yes! When I was in high school, I began having what I called "conscious
dreams." I would be fully conscious with nothing else there, like being on
a dark plain. I knew my body was asleep and I was inside my head and
awake. So I would make things appear, usually an attractive young man, and
make things happen, usually romantic things (not sexual - I didn't know
anything about it!). Sometimes dream material would intrude, and I'd work
to fight off the dream and make it go away so I could run the show.
It wasn't until I was in my twenties that it occurred to me that that state
might be useful for something else - like prayer. But of course I had to
learn to get there when I wanted to, instead of just waiting for it to
happen during sleep. As I was learning it, I thought of things I'd read in
books like the Bhaghavad Gita and began to realize that that interior state
was what the books were talking about.
>I don't focus on an image but
> pretend i'm just naturally falling asleep just "letting myself go" on
every
> level. The trick is not to get to worked up about the whole situation ie
> not to conscious and on the other hand not to lose consciousness.
Well, I intended to stay fully conscious but not oriented to the outer
world. I used that image of the seer "withdrawing his senses" and imagined
just pulling those extensions back inside the head (realized later that it
was just a matter of withdrawing attention). I did decide that I needed to
be aware of emergency noises or the babies crying, and I found it worked -
I would be completely inside and unaware of sights or sounds of the outer
world, but when a baby cried, I heard it as if I were wide awake.
>A whole
> range of symptoms let me know i'm gradually getting there and they do
seem
> to have a general pattern or sequence from feet upwards. I agree with you
> that eventually my consciousness does seem to be situated in my head and
> more specifically my inner visual field is directly between my two eyes
> sort of squinted and where the 6th chakra would be located.
The eyes are an extension of the brain, so I suppose the inner field is
connected with the eyes AND the visual cortex.
>
> I agree you do have a choice as to wether to enter dreams or not.
sometimes
> i just get these awesome body distortions where my legs or arms get
pulled
> about by some force and often completely off the bed.
Well, you're into kundalini experience, and I wasn't back then.
>The last few months
> ive managed enter a comletely different state usually from a lucid dream
> environment i totally relax "everything" mentally physically whatever...
In
> the same way as I fall asleep consciously I do the same thing while in a
> lucid dream just blank my mind and "let go everything" and the dream
seems
> to dissolve away and I even seem to lose awarenes of my dream body.
So that's not lucid dreaming any more. It's like my conscious interior
state, but you are happy to be there - as a kid I was bored with nothing
going on, so I made my own dreams.
>I
seem
> to enter a disemboided state but there is a sensation of constant
movement
> or rapid flying. No specific images just a grey to black sometimes white
> visual field but this state seems to be estatically blissful and
> pleasurable.
The bliss and pleasure may be related to the kundalini. Or maybe not.
>Often thoughts will intrude and then i cannot maintain this
> state and dream images and sounds arise out of this state and its only
> after i've completely relaxed and blanked my mind again that i can enter
> the state again.
You withdraw your attention from the dream stuff. I made it go away or
dissipate so I could make my own dream. You could probably just will it
out of existence, too, by just remembering that it isn't real and you're in
control. But hey, you're doing so well, why try to fix what ain't broke?
>
> I know others have described this state calling it "pure consciousness" -
Yes, you're doing what is called "formless meditation" or "meditation
without seed." Meditation without focusing on any symbol, sound, mantra,
without doing anything in particular. Just "resting in pure awareness."
Much more advanced than playing with creating dreams.
> Ive also experienced the process of going from lucid dream down to pure
> consciousness but as if in slow motion and it was most interesting as it
> also occurs in stages where imagery first looses complexity becomming
> abstract and loses colour. then sounds disappear and eventually
everything
> dissolves down into this "pure consciousness" on that particular occasion
I
> had taken a sleeping drug (Temazepam) which i think caused this strange
> effect.
You may find you're abnormally sensitive to drugs. I try not to take
anything new - I never know what will happen.
>
> Often in the strange state between waking and complete sleep and
conscious
> dreaming often before images form but usually after i've begun to hear
> strange noises I often get these "unseen attacks" which is the only way
to
> describe them. I get strange pullings in various regions of my body
> (similar to loosening sensations when falling asleep) but these grow more
> and more intense until they are painful pulling sensations and prodding
> sensations that are very painful. I get these very often and for a long
> time they really worried me but i discovered i could eventually escape
them
> by going down to pure consciousness. What do you suppose is the cause of
> this. Ive also noted they seem to be primarily centered in regions of my
> spine, particularly coccyx and unfortunately for me tthe genital region
as
> well.
Definitely sounds like kundalini. Also the strange noises, if they aren't
dream stuff.
>Ever since they first began i wondered wether there wasn't a
> connection with "k" symptoms. Incidentally ive tried everthing like just
> ignoring them or "trying to make friends" with them. I realize they are
> obviously some construction of my mind or possibly "k" symptoms either
way
> they come from "wihin". I dont always want to go down to pure
consciousness
> to escape them and like i has last night i couldn't even do that. I
> couldn.t relax or give myself up enough and was trapped in this
tortourous
> state not able to go down any futher to pure consciousness and not
wanting
> to go up to wakefulness.
Jung says kundalini is "an autonomous process arising from the
unconscious." Autonomous means it acts as if it has a will of its own - it
seems to be not you, but somebody or something else. Many people call it a
goddess, Mother Kundalini or Mother Shakti. (Since the whole thing is very
sexual for me, I'm more comfortable thinking of Shakti as male, and she
says it doesn't matter. <grin>)
After reading about this, I just tried speaking to Shakti and it works - I
get answers, either in the interior hearing or some physical nudge, etc.
If you've given up the idea of a personal God, this may seem like
regression to you. But all I can tell you is, it works. You CAN talk to
Kundalini/ Shakti and discuss your problems.
Trying to ignore Shakti won't work for you, at least not while you continue
your meditation. And trying to ignore these phenomena or stop them is
likely to just make them more uncomfortable. Sannella ("Kundalini
Experience") gives many examples of people with K. problems that cleared up
or got much better when they quit fighting and went with it.
Problem is, you've got two things going here, and maybe you can't do them
at the same time. 1) You need to give some time to kundalini meditation.
2) You want to do your interior formless meditation, and physical symptoms
bother you and distract you. Why not just discuss this with Shakti? Say
something like, I'm quite willing to give time to working with you, and
then may I please have some peaceful time for the other kind of meditation?
In kundalini meditation you can still pretty much rest in pure awareness
except that you'll need to be aware of the physical body and not try to
stop what it does. In fact, when I'm meditating, Shakti says, "No words.
No thinking." And try to listen for Shakti's directions - it's a lot
easier to hear "Get up from the bed" than it is to get thrown off!! You'll
probably find this interesting when you just let it happen and observe.
Don't worry about it being sexual - it's okay to enjoy it. There's a
purpose to that - the sexual function is being transformed so that the
energy will go up through your head. I think this is easier for women
because we tend to be multi-orgasmic, so that the tension and the pleasure
builds and builds. Men need to learn to have orgasms without ejaculating -
not every time, of course. I can find you a reference on something to read
about that, but you can probably do it by yourself, since you know it's
possible.
>besides sometimes i can't even wake up or end up
> in a bewildering series of false awakenings.
Yeah, I got the cure for that! I woke myself up and started to get up and
go to the bathroom, and a ghost appeared right in front of me! Scared me
half to death, and then I woke up! I took the hint, and I don't try to
wake up.
Coming back from meditation is a different thing, you do it yourself when
you're ready. Although a few times recently I got so far out and so
entrained in the rhythm of the earth that Shakti had to help out - ordered
me back! (You see, Shakti takes care of his/her own!)
>
> I assume you are a "k" person and where do you figure "k" fits into the
> whole picture of consious dreaming. Iv'e had "k" experiences from waking
> state but most of them seem to occur after waking from lucid dream or
> sometimes from within one.
As I said, I think you need to separate your two kinds of meditation. But
you must decide - you and Shakti.
>Either way when in the sleep state and
conscious
> I have greater awareness of chakras ect.. There definately is some
> connection.
>
Yes, you'll be more aware of them and learn to move energy around where you
want it.
The Tibetans, who have a form of Buddhism combined with elements of a
pre-Buddhist religion, train their monks and lamas carefully. People who
get into serious meditation on the tantric path can make a three-year
retreat to a monastery where they are carefully guided. (It's possible to
do it one year at a time, returning to your job in between.) Not that I'm
recommending this for you - you're too advanced.
What they teach is in two stages: Creation and Completion. In the Creation
stage, you work on extensive visualization in your meditation, building
elaborate constructions and seeing them clearly. You also have visions and
do visualizations of gods, dakinis, etc. (Although these seem quite real,
they are recognized as devices for such purposes.) In the Completion
stage, you dissolve the elaborate visualizations and go beyond that to
formless meditation, resting in pure awareness. You work with kundalini,
though it isn't completely clear to me how and when they're referring to
this in the texts. You realize the Self.
Along with this last stage are a group of yogas or methods known as
extraordinary practices. My impression is that people probably get into
all of them but concentrate on one. One of them involves learning to
produce enough heat in the body to live comfortably in a thin cotton gown
in the high Himalayas. The test is to sit outside in the freezing cold,
have a piece of cloth dipped in frigid water and draped over your
shoulders, and dry it out with your own heat - three times! The literature
I saw didn't make much of sexual yoga, but it did say that in the monastery
"A partner may be provided."
Another of the extraordinary practices is Dream Yoga! Yes, they learn to
be conscious in dreams, etc. Sounds familiar, huh.
So I think now that I must have learned Dream Yoga in another life, and
that's why it came spontaneously. I think you probably learned it in
another life, too. And that's why formless meditation seems natural and
relatively easy to you - you learned it all before!
Feel free to write to me any time, either on the list or privately. Let me
know how it goes with managing the two kinds of meditation. And then when
everything seems stable, I'll have some further suggestions for you.
Love,
Ann
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:04:06 PST
From: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Kundalini-Cancer-Healing
Message-ID: <19980120020406.26899.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi!
Regarding your mother's cancer and kundalini.
I am familiar with a certain group of healing practioners who use K for
healing, pumping it up from their lower chakras into the body of the
receiver.
The process is called Tibetan Pulsing Healing and was developed by a
disciple of OSHO.
Check the Osho web site...you can search it...and see if there are any
practioners near you.
One of my friends was healed from chronic hepatitis in less than a month
by using this process. Cant hurt to check it out for your Mom.
Blessings,
Susan
______________________
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:05:30 -0800
From: Ray Morel <r.morelATnospamsympatico.ca>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: [Fwd: Undeliverable: meditations]
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Subject: meditations
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:08:31 +1300
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Hi everyone, it's me again, the one who's not quite sure who she is or
what she's doing yet, but she sure is having fun! I don't really know
very much about meditation techniques or anything but I'm making it up
as I go along and seem to be doing quite well. I am really hoping to do
it a little more gently than some of you have though because I don't
want to get scared. If I do, I have no-one to hold on to and ask advice
from exept everyone in here, and I don't want to wake up out of a
nightmare hugging a computer for comfort!!
I am having fun with it though, so far and am making up my own
meditations as I go along...is that dangerous? Is anything about
meditating dangerous?
I spooked myself though, meditating in front of a mirror in my bedroom,
can't really recall what spooked me, I think i saw a face in my face or
something, not sure, anyway I don't like mirrors much anymore!
I find it more comfortable to meditate lying down. In one meditation I
am a piece of confitti blowing in the wind. It's kind of like a slow
motion roller coaster ride, feels fun. In another I am looking at a
door, and I am trying to go through it but for some reason when I get to
close I start spinning. I haven't made it close enough to the door yet
to even look inside? What is this all about? I thought I was supposed
to be able to control my own meditations...
And as I have already told some of you I have been working on my brow
chakra and the one in my chest.
Just wanted some input, what am I doing right? Wrong? Suggestions
anyone?
Hope everyone is doing well, I enjoy reading your letters!
Love Tammy
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:40:37 PST
From: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: mini rant
Message-ID: <19980120024038.8906.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
(Stepping up on her soap box)
Several months ago I received a channeled message regarding the true
nature of Enlightenment.....drum roll please.... SNIP your posts!
(Stepping down from her soap box)
Seriously folks....when i first joined the k list almost a year ago we
had maybe about 10 posts a day. Now....I have to subscribe to the
digest of the k list because i receives sometimes 5 postings of the
klist digest of about 30K a piece.
Most of the posts that are responses contain emails in totality that
could have been..usually and not always i know...snipped down to a few
salient points.
If people really want to know the whole email go to the archives at
http://www.reference.com and you will find the *whole* thread of what
you are talking about. Are people really that afraid they will be
misunderstood that much?
Some people pay for their email by bandwith...this can get expensive for
them.
Or if you really want to include the *whole thing* clean it up some so
the text doesnt wander like a drunken sailor over the whole page. this
does take some time but after a post has been repeated more than a
couple of times...it gets hard to read.
So okay, maybe I crept back up on my soap box. :)
Rant over.
Love you guys.
Susan
***************************
'You can believe anything you want.
The universe is not obliged to keep a straight face.'
...Solomon Shert
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:59:14 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>
Subject: Re: So long for a little while...
Message-ID: <34C39471.14B1ATnospamintercomm.com>
Mike, do keep in touch from time to time. Gloria
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:34:54 -0400
From: "Orea de Sa' Hana" <oreaATnospamerols.com>
To: Kundalini List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Channeling
Message-ID: <34C40D4E.F12FB4EEATnospamerols.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
What do you call someone who channels God or Jesus? I'm damned if I
know the answer, but one of them was me....imagine my surprise! It was
indeed one of the happiest experiences of my life, the material is
excellent. I don't talk about it because it sounds too flakey
altogether, and quite frankly most folks could not be less interested.
But I won't pretend it didn't happen. It was a real k-kicker.
Blessings,
Orea
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:38:37 -0500
From: nkognito <nkognitoATnospamtcon.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: introduction
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980119223730.0069099cATnospammailgate.tcon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello to All,
My name is Sherry, I am 40 years old, married 19 years, work full time
helping people find jobs and I am also a mom with one 7 year old son. I
was raised in the Christian faith.
I haven't had a chance to read any of the previous logs yet on your past
discussions, but some of you were talking about channeling and I thought
this would be an appropriate moment introduce myself.
I had my first spontaneous experience with kundalini energy in 1989, when I
was 31. At that time I didn't know what it was and I can tell you that it
scared me half to death. At the time, I was sitting at the dinner table
working a jigsaw puzzle and this voice came to me. It was so loud, I
jumped out of chair to see who was there and of course there wasn't any
one. I could not tell if it was coming from outside or inside my head but
I had to hold on to the dinner table to keep from falling down on my knees.
I just call it the Voice. It was like a rush of information was flowing
into my brain. Talk about feeling one with the universe.
Then following year I had my son and things went along fine until 1996. At
which time I started my spiritual searching again and I was introduced over
the internet to a meditation technique called the Secrets of the Golden
Flower. I had never meditated before so I didn't have a clue of what I was
getting myself into. And being only familiar with the Christian faith, I
didn't really have any idea of what meditation was about, I assumed that it
like prayerful thinking. I did not get the book, I only got the technique
of how to do it and had nothing to draw from for guidance. Don't get me
wrong, I don't think that the person passing along this information had any
ill intent, but I sure got some surprises that I had not counted on.
Sometimes blind trust can get one into more than they bargained for.
At any rate after I started the meditation all kinds of weird things
started happen to me. I could not eat meat because it made me sick, I had
this craving for peanuts, wheat toast and orange juice. I lost 20 pounds
(which that was good, I need to shead a few) I had such head trembling and
shaking that my husband thought I was coming down with some kind of
muscular disease. I had so much energy that I thought I would explode, I
had to rake leaves to get rid of all the energy and get grounded. But had
a really bad energy crash shortly after that and I was weepy for months. I
thought I was losing my mind. Between the hallucinations and voices and
some of the most horrible nightmares I have ever had in my life.
Well on one especially bad night, dark night of the soul if you want to
call it that, I heard the voice of Mother Mary. She basically told to
believe with all my heart that God loved me and everything would be
alright. And she was right.
It was a very hard struggle for me. I could almost write a book myself on
all the unusual things that have happen in the last year or so. Some of
them you probably would not even believe. And I have acquired some
abilities in hightened awareness, precognitive abilities, synchronicity or
whatever you want to call it. And since I have tried every way I can think
of to get rid of this stuff and have not been successful at it, I decided
that it must be here to stay and I might as well figure out how to focus
and direct this energy in a more loving, positive way.
I probably will not post much, but I will be reading your responses as fast
as I can.
Love and Light,
Sherry
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 04:22:42
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: K. gets itchy? Practical stuff..
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980119042242.3787177aATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Well, back to Earth for a moment..
There have been a few threads, commenting on how the energy movements
sometimes result in itchy rashes, and I have suffered from wandering excema
for as long as I can remember. I have been to every kind of specialist,
before I gave up on Doctors... even volunteered for excema studies..
naturopathic cleansing, self- and professional hypnosis, herbal remedies,
homeopathy, you name it. Flax seed oil capsules were the only thing I found
that seemed to help.
Finally, I am watching the scars fade away to pale pinkness, for which I
am incredibly grateful. I have been praying and visualizing, and et all
for it to end, and finally in Zellers pharmacy, listening to my K. brought
me to the "right stuff".
First, I found "SarnaP anti itch and surface anaestetic emmolient
lotion". P stands for pramoxine HCl, the anaestetic.. effective. But it
also contains lots of camphor and menthol, which freezes out the itchy
hotspots with Cold Cold Cold right away.. balancing the energy.
Next I found a shampoo, which I have been using as a body scrub.
On the back of the box it says:
SCIENTISTS HAVE RECENTLY confirmed that dandruff and associated dry
scalp can be caused by a microscopic fungus. This fungus occurs naturally
on everyone's skin. It is called pityrosporum ovale (pronounced
pity-row-spore-um oh-valley) Given the right conditions (periods of stress,
changes in diet or climate), the fungus can cause a mild infection at the
roots of the hair. Often, the result was an unpleasant flaking and itching.
Nizoral* doesn't use tars. ...
I don't think it's possible to have dandruff on the inside of my
elbows.. but the excema that has been there for years, is gone. I wonder if
the folks at McNIEL CONSUMER PRODUCTS COMPANY know that thier shampoo cures
excema?
I suspect that most folks K. itches, are from the fungus getting
overgrown. Guess it likes K-fire. Perhaps it likes the detoxifying sweat..
I dunno, I'm just real grateful mine's over. Whew! Thankyou, Goddess for
clever scientists..
Blessings, Mystress.
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