1998/01/19 16:41
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #64
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 64
Today's Topics:
Re: The Politics of Meditation and K [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Re: HRTZEN: sleep & meditation (was [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
Re: Avatar [ WaterFall <watrfallATnospamniagara.com> ]
Re: Quote of the day [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: So long for a little while... [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Avatar [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Broadcast [ RadiantTch <RadiantTchATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: physical in alignment with expan [ RadiantTch <RadiantTchATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Selfishness [ RadiantTch <RadiantTchATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: HRTZEN: Re: The Politics of Medi [ anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities. ]
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:51:19 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: ritag39ATnospamix.netcom.com
CC: gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com, Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com, TGarlandATnospamVIPMail.com,
heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: The Politics of Meditation and Kundalini Research-A
Message-ID: <34C33E32.70A0ATnospamintercomm.com>
ritag39ATnospamix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> On 01/19/98 09:43:58 you wrote:
> >
> >Dear Harsha,
> >
> > Good idea. I remember having two lengthy discussions about TM with
> >one of the Maharishi's long-time disciples. Everyone knows his name
> >and his book, but in the present context, I don't wish to mention
> >either of them at this juncture. What I do want to say is that this
> >close disciple, and amateur scientist, told me point blank that he
> >had never heard of Kundalini. When I attempted to explain that it
> >had to do with energy rising up from the base of the spine into
> >the brain, he almost fell off his chair laughing. He just could
> >not imagine such a phenomenon.
>
> >><< For example, the Maharishi
> >> institute has published a number of interesting papers on meditation that
> >>have been
> >> completely ignored. That's not good, it's not bad, it just is. Everything
> >>in its
> >> time.
> >> >>
> >
> >>Gloria Greco here:
Thanks for sharing Rita, there is usually someone from almost every
experience somewhere here to answer these issues when they come up. Of
course some don't relate to the terms, which is often the conflict.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> TM is a classic Hindu mantra meditation in modern times. Maharishi is artful in his avoidance of
> Sanskrit terms and uses scientific findings to validate meditation in a society filled with
> skepticism. Although "samadhi" is also a goal in TM, Maharishi no longer describes it in these
> terms but rather describes it as "Transcendental Consciousness". The increasing "charm" of the
> mind to naturally seek "a field of greater happiness" by entering the subtler states of
> consciousness, one gradually infuses transcendental consciousness into the waking, dreaming, and
> sleep states, utimately, achieving "cosmic consciousness". TM's theory is the "Science of
> Creative Intelligence", and traces its root back to Sankaracharya's Advait school of Vedantic
> thought, but is tailored for Western ears. It is true that many TM meditators are not familar
> with the terminology of "kundalini". However, everything unfolds in proper sequence, and through
> experience one begins to recognize and validate their experiences. As a long term TM meditator
> and a subscriber of this k-list, I have realized that all spiritual teachings may have the same
> experience but can be expressed differently. I joined this kundalini list to open my awareness
> to the uniqueness that others bring to this list and share the knowledge and insight that is
> available by many willing people on this list.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Rita
>
>
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:23:40 -0600
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: Teresa <TGarlandATnospamVIPMail.com>
Cc: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: sleep & meditation (was EAR RINGING - throat chakra
and sleep)
Message-Id: <l03010d02b0e96678d341ATnospam[207.71.50.45]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Teresa <TGarlandATnospamVIPMail.com> wrote:
>> snip... When you can put your body to sleep and stay awake,
>> you have the ideal state in which to meditate. As the Gita says,
>>
>> "The turtle can withdraw its legs;
>> The seer can withdraw his senses."
>>
>> This is the way I teach meditation.
>
>How very interesting. Do you teach new meditators this method?
Yes, of course. At the first meeting I talk about understanding the words
we all use and being able to communicate. It works fine - Christians, Jews,
atheists and others can discuss these matters easily if they just focus on
what each person means, rather than arguing about the words. Then I talk a
little about how we are not the same as our bodies, emotions, or mind,
etc., and maybe a little about planes of consciousness.
Then I explain what we're going to do, and then we do it. Call it the
"plunge-in" method <grin>. We use a subject - love, for instance - and a
symbol. On the mental plane we spend a few minutes thinking about the
subject and practicing staying above the emotions. Then lift up higher,
focus on the symbol, and wait and listen. This puts them on the intuitive
plane briefly.
We can go back at later meetings and deal further with various aspects,
beginning with physical relaxation, but in the beginning I want them to
experience meditation - I want something to happen for them. I provide an
opening, a link, and I give them some extra energy. New meditators need
that help for a while.
A useful technique - before the meditation, I ask them to think of or
remember something that brings them joy: a face, a scene, a sound,
whatever. Then they can use that to lift them higher in meditation. Mine
is Beethoven's joy music - when I start that going in my head, I go right
up.
>It is so
>different from other methods, it seems like spiritual development would be
>different, as well. What do your students report?
After we meditate, I always ask them to talk about what happened - for two
reasons, to share experiences and because I want to know where they're at.
People usually report something simple - hearing something, seeing
something, feeling a strong sense of love or peace. Some see an eye and
want to know what that is. At the end of meditation we take a couple of
minutes to perform a service - we concentrate on the symbol and radiate it
out in all directions. Some people experience the most at that time. "I
felt like a lighthouse - the light was just flashing out in all directions!"
After the group has been together for a while, we do a healing meditation.
We bring in the healing energy and when it's strong we begin mentioning
names of people who need healing. As someone mentions a name, we shoot the
energy to him and through him. For some people that's the first time
they're really sure something is happening, when they feel that energy hit
and go through them and on.
When the group is comfortable together, we sometimes find that what comes
to everyone in our meditation fits together like the pieces of a puzzle.
We find we've learned or been given something, but it takes all the pieces
to see what it is.
I don't really care what we meditate about - it's all practice, learning to
control the "mind stuff" and get around on higher planes.
The major difference is that in kundalini meditation the method includes
raising kundalini in a strong and overt way. I also aim to raise
kundalini, but quietly, without outward symptoms, if possible. So in the
beginning I don't even mention kundalini or centers, because I don't want
them focussing on centers. I just want them to go right into the head and
leave the lower planes behind.
Of course, it's the unusual occurrences that stick in the memory:
The first time I taught a class I lost someone! When I brought everyone
out, one young man was still gone, far gone. I waited patiently, but
people around me were getting itchy. Finally my partner gave me the elbow
in the ribs. So I started talking again, bringing him out again but in
much more detail. It worked. He was ecstatic - said he'd been doing
wonderful things, but couldn't remember any of it.
My husband said the next thing to try would have been to count him out, as
in hypnotism. But I thought about it and when it happened again several
years later, I just identified with the person at all levels and then
wiggled my fingers. Sure enough, she began to move her fingers and then
opened her eyes!
One woman came to my class once and left with tears in her eyes, saying she
wouldn't be back. She said she'd shot up to a place of such bliss that it
was really terrible to have to come back. She said she just couldn't keep
doing that over and over.
Once when I held the first class for a new group, we meditated and then I
asked people to share whatever they'd experienced. An older woman said
she'd seen something and she wanted to know what it was. She said
something came down on one person's head, then went up and came down on the
next person's head, and went right around the circle like that. I was
stunned, but she needed feedback, so I told her it was me.
With a new class I talk them up, but as soon as I have a little time to be
silent, I concentrate on the unity of the group and visualize energy going
from my head over to the next person, then the next and on around the
circle. But I used to think I was just using visualization to direct my
energies. I never dreamed anyone could see what I was doing! That woman
made me understand that when I'm visualizing, I'm doing something quite
real! Hers is a rare gift (siddha), I think - I've never met anyone else
who saw energies so well.
Love,
Ann
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 04:52:48 -0500
From: WaterFall <watrfallATnospamniagara.com>
To: Chris Hughes <aird.houseATnospamzetnet.co.uk>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Avatar
Message-ID: <34D83A70.6CB1ATnospamniagara.com>
Chris Hughes wrote:
> Dear Souls
> has done every thing that Jesus did, so I went to Putaparti in India
> Christmas 96 to find out for myself and saw him produce a Bible out
> of thin air in front of a crowd of 60.000. It is said He has in
> excess of 5o Million Devotees and on His birthday last year there
> were over 1 Million on His ashram (fed free).
What a wonderful experience for you. I am envious!:)
Sai Baba has touched us up here in Canada, also. Through my friend
Linda, who was in a coma with spiral menenigits. They told her husband
that if she lived, she would be no more than a vegetable.
Her first memory is of a man's voice talking to her (in her head) and
telling her that his name was Sai Baba and that he was with her to help
her get better. She had never heard of him before and so she and Sai
Baba had many conversations before she could communicate with people,
again. He manifested himself to her and he was her crutch until she was
able to go it on her own. She had to learn *everything* all over again,
her memory was wiped, she didn't know how to speak etc.
An interesting story is that in one of her visions he told her that she
needed to eat a about 1/2 tsp. of... the substance that looks like burnt
insense, that he manifests....
4 times a day. So she and her husband called up to a place in Toronto to
see if they had any. They said sure! we have lots in the back, come up
and get it. So they went there, it's a 2 1/2 hour drive. They asked the
first lady in the store and she said Oh no! we only give that out in
small amounts. It's very precious and we don't have very much. She went
to the back to see what she could do for them.
Then they noticed another lady standing by the counter and asked her.
She had talked to them on the phone and said just a minute, I put some
aside for you... from behind the counter she pulled out a big bag of it
and told them to take it, as a gift. So off they went.
A few months later they called the store again and asked for this nice
lady, to thank her becuase it had helped Linda greatly. But there has
never been anyone of that name working in the store. They described her,
a very tall and pretty black woman and no... no one fit the description.
:)
Now everytime they go back there, they always ask for the generous lady
and tell who ever is there the story:)
Linda is doing great:) She even went back to work last year as a bank
teller.
just another of the many Sai Baba experiences:)
Nancy
As a result of this
> experience last October I went to the Third Eye Institute in India to
> see Gurigi an elightened Guru who is God realized through Kundalini
> and as a result of this my Kundalini is awkened. I have from time to
> time during meditation a ringing in my ears [more of a buzz]. I am
> wary of "Gurus" who charge for their services and hasten to add that
> this was not the case. I have also read Conversations 1 & 2 and would
> like to believe it true but I think the important thing is that as a
> sign of our times books such as these are making the best selling
> lists. I believe that we are on the verge of a giant step forward in
> the evolution of man kind.
> Baba has said that this is the best time in the history of man for
> individual spiritual progress because He a Full Avatar is here. This
> would possibly explain why so many of us are having K awakening with
> relativly little efort.
> In love and respect for the many views expressed here.
> Chris
> Sai Ram
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:37:34 EST
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: jimcATnospamsonic.net, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Quote of the day
Message-ID: <12c4cdd5.34c3c7a0ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-01-19 08:28:43 EST, jimcATnospamsonic.net writes:
<<
"Spiritual practice is not easy.
It's better not to begin unless
you intend to finish it.
The unfinished business will haunt you."
Chogyam Trungp >>
Spiritual practice is not hard.
You have always been doing it.
But begin whenever you wish.
It is already done.
Harsha
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:49:18 EST
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: msticklesATnospamantalys.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: So long for a little while...
Message-ID: <88aef6da.34c3ca62ATnospamaol.com>
Best wishes Mike Stickles. Thank you for your wise posts.
Harsha
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:41:46 EST
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: aird.houseATnospamzetnet.co.uk, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Avatar
Message-ID: <41614557.34c3c89cATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-01-19 09:38:00 EST, aird.houseATnospamzetnet.co.uk writes:
<< o I went to Putaparti in India
Christmas 96 to find out for myself and saw him produce a Bible out
of thin air in front of a crowd of 60.000. >>
Harsha writes: But cannot magicians also do that? It is beautiful if you
respect someone and feel that they can help you on the spiritual path. But do
not confuse magic and miracles with God-Consciousness and Self-Realization.
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:00:32 EST
From: RadiantTch <RadiantTchATnospamaol.com>
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Broadcast
Message-ID: <a49784c7.34c3db2bATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-01-19 14:49:37 EST, anandajyoti writes:
<< Well put , Gloria and Barbara Ellen >>
Credit goes to Gloria. :-)
BE
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:56:49 EST
From: RadiantTch <RadiantTchATnospamaol.com>
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: physical in alignment with expanded consciousness
Message-ID: <41619ec5.34c3da33ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-01-19 13:47:43 EST, David Bozzi writes:
<< RadiantTch wrote:
> I am having a bit of a time experiencing "being" an expanded
> awareness/consciousness (loving observer with no judgement) along WITH
tending
> to the business of everyday living of my particular human focus. Part of
me
> (heck, MOST of me!) wants to "stay" in that awareness space, and not be
> physical at all. <snip>
DB>> What are the effects of wanting to stay in the awareness space? >>
Radiant here again:
Effects of staying seem to be: a partial detachment from ego identity, THAT
*I* seems to be almost "gone", so thinking as an individual (processing,
detailing) is difficult, but information is very available and accessible,
even though the difficulty remains in putting that knowing into words for
others
It's almost like an ongoing meditation - only the "necessary" (or what I label
necessary) chores/errands get done, not what the ego would necessarily WANT
done (I am noticing that the ego is definitely present, because she helps keep
me as grounded as I'll let her with the "necessary" chores; she is the one
that tells me it's time to do something else, and the part of me that enjoys
that expanded space has a conflict with that - like waking up in the morning
from pleasant dreams, and not wanting to get up (-:).
I'd like to describe this "space" I am referring to, in case it helps tie my
experience in with others' experiences:
Expansion of self;
- up "above" human events (the observer of a larger picture);
- a knowing that I am a key player physically and spiritually (and all other
levels) in those events and that my participation is necessary and is already
occurring at other levels I am not cued into;
- time doesn't exist - rather the past's actions create the NOW moment, and
the future is created from this NOW moment, all happening at once - past,
present and future all enfolding in upon themselves in the NOW moment;
- I am everyone I observe in the serendipitious event, and I am also the
observer of the larger picture at the same time - I have a choice to focus in
on any of the human focuses happening "below" me, which part I want to play,
OR to stay the observer of all - I'm already participating, as I am ONE with
all, but *I* can choose which focus to experience, and at which level
That's the best I can do at this time with words. ;-)
I guess my real question is, since I AM all, can I HAVE it all? (asking
myself, not you wonderful list people...) Can I have that flowing, wondrous,
expanded feeling AND be physically focused AT THE SAME TIME, rather than one
or the other........My own answer to that question is a resounding YES, and
what this whole process is all about for me - the awakening to *new*
awareness, and "finding my feet" within the new world.
Methinks I have a wee bit of judgement towards the physical aspects of doing,
otherwise, I wouldn't have a challenge here - *I* am the one doing the
pendulum act, like there is either this or that, and that one way feels better
(I'll come "down" for a big party with dancing ANYTIME!!! (-;). Best look at
why one feels better most of the time, hmmmmm? I feel that if I can come to
accept the physical aspects of *doing* unconditionally, I'll be blissful
wherever *I* am. Thank you for allowing me the space to express, and for
listening.
Love to all,
Barbara Ellen
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:07:55 EST
From: RadiantTch <RadiantTchATnospamaol.com>
To: Kundalini-lATnospamEXECPC.COM
Subject: Re: Selfishness
Message-ID: <7459d44a.34c3dcd1ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-01-19 15:05:19 EST, jaxxATnospamihug.co.nz writes:
<< >>it DOESNT matter how we get from point A to point B...all that matters is
>that
>>we ARRIVE...
> > ...S. C. Stoner...
In response, jaxxATnospamihug.co.nz writes:
>And if we destroy others in the process? That alright too? Without much
>qualification, only a selfish fool could subscribe to such a limited view.
>>
And Radiant writes:
I feel S. C. Stoner's view, rather, to be an expanded, nonjudgemental view,
myself. ;-)
Peace,
Barbara Ellen
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:30:28 -0800
From: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
To: lodpressATnospamintercomm.com
CC: ritag39ATnospamix.netcom.com, gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com, Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com,
TGarlandATnospamVIPMail.com, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com,
kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: Re: The Politics of Meditation and Kundalini Research-A
Message-ID: <34C3E209.3DE8C11DATnospamgeocities.com>
Gloria Greco wrote:
> >
> > On 01/19/98 09:43:58 you wrote:
> > >
> > >Dear Harsha,
> > >
> > > Good idea. I remember having two lengthy discussions about TM with
> > >one of the Maharishi's long-time disciples. <snipped>
> > >had never heard of Kundalini.
Anandajyoti> Would you call it that they are unaware of the happenings in the world. Or they may even
have chosen to do that. Does it bring the aspect of Kundalini down, or anyone's spiritual awareness
for that matter. I don't think so.
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >ritag39ATnospamix.netcom.com wrote:
> >
> > TM is a classic Hindu mantra meditation in modern times. Maharishi is artful in his avoidance of
> Sanskrit terms and uses scientific findings to validate meditation in a society filled with
> skepticism. Although "samadhi" is also a goal in TM, Maharishi no longer describes it in these terms
> but rather describes it as "Transcendental Consciousness". The increasing "charm" of the mind to
> naturally seek "a field of greater happiness" by entering the subtler states of consciousness, one
> gradually infuses transcendental consciousness into the waking, dreaming, and sleep states,
> utimately, achieving "cosmic consciousness". <snipped> but is tailored for Western ears. However,
> everything unfolds in proper sequence, and through
> > experience one begins to recognize and validate their experiences. I have realized that all
> spiritual teachings may have the same
> > experience but can be expressed differently.
> >
> Anandajyoti>
As many perspectives ,as many are paths to the same goal, in the spiritual arena.Christ had also said,
"There are many mansions in my Father's house"
TM is a valid path, so are so many in the world around. No one is exclusive.
Exclusive is the individual who wishes chooses one path or many. Each of us have different and unique
aspirations for our spiritual life.
In my life I have understood and practiced to express myself in the language of my audience, a
language that they can relate to. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi has done the same, for the Western world. He
has rather made it simple for the western mind to understand and apply the Vedantic Practices, without
any archaic language barriers. I would consider that healthy and appropriate.
I do not know whom Gene Talked to, regarding the TM etc., who maintain their ignorance about
Kundalini. Even if they are ignorant or chose to be so is their prerogative, being unique individual
themselves.
That in no way invalidate the TM or the path of the Kundalini.
It only indicates to me the mere shallowness of Gene's argument.
There are people who believe Sai Baba is an Avatar. So be it. Its their choice to believe anything of
their choice, as long as they do not try to impose their beliefs on others or to destroy the belief of
others.
Through our discussions we can only present our perspectives, rationally and intelligently, for
consideration and should leave the choice the acceptance and or opposition to the rest.
All of us on this earth plane are to develop and grow, each according to his/her capacity, and to the
extent our aspirations.
The ego ramblings only help in creating undue conflicts, as a result of which, our minds may deviate
from the source we all seek to the pebbles and scruples on the way..
Rita has done well in bringing forward her viewpoint , which is commendable.
So also Gene, has eloquently brought his viewpoints. That is also commendable. But Dear Gene, you are
missing the whole point through your opinions on Kundalini Research, for over a month now. Don't you
think it is time to let go and let be.? You have asked many times, for volunteers for your project.
Let it be at that. If those that may be so inclined , give you the opportunity , to further your
quest, so be it. No one is against that.
Anandajyoti
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