1998/01/17 14:50
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #52
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 52
Today's Topics:
Re: KA and Half-Baked Theology ("Eve [ John Lounsberry <berryATnospamcnwl.igs.net ]
Re: KA and Half-Baked Theology ("Eve [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #49 [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
RE: signs of chakra? [ Amy Johnson <acjoATnospamholly.ColoState.E ]
Re. DIRECTION [ Afperry <AfperryATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #51 [ iri <iriATnospamivyrealty.com> ]
Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #49 [ Barbara Millikan <millikanATnospampnn.com> ]
Re: HRTZEN: Responders on KA-THEOLOG [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Re: just a babbling brook as my grad [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:13:28 -0500
From: John Lounsberry <berryATnospamcnwl.igs.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: KA and Half-Baked Theology ("Everything is God")
Message-ID: <34C0CA98.7466ATnospamcnwl.igs.net>
Michael Bradford wrote:
>
> Dear Fellow Seekers;
>
> In all the weighty deliberations that have been expressed
> recently in the series of e-mails that have come accross my
> electornic doorstep, I have been struck by the fact that in all
> the arguments that have been expressed so far, there seems to
> be a basic assumption being made that humanity, in its
> current exalted state, is qualified to make categoric statements
> about the ultimate nature of reality.
>
> This is an assumption that is commonly made by many of
> the proponents of both religion and science, probably due to
> the fact that we simply are unable to comprehend any form of
> consciousness much more advanced than our own. This view
> undoubtedly came into being long ago, but the recent
> advances in our knowledge and understanding of evolution
> and the scope of the universe should give us cause to seriously
> question this assumption.
>
> Since life began to emerge on this planet some hundreds of
> millions of years ago, there has been a definite but
> unmistakable trend towards more complex forms of life, with
> more and more advanced brains and nervous systems. Thus,
> we see the progression from rudimentary life forms, to single
> celled organisms, to simple plants, to lower order animals, to
> reptiles, then mammals, and finally to the higher order
> primates such as ourselves.
>
> But unless this very prominent trend in evolution has now
> come to a screeching halt (and I do not see any reason to
> suppose that it has), there is no reason whatsoever to suppose
> that life will not evolve as far from our current level as we are
> from, say, a microbe. It is totally beyond our comprehension
> what forms of sensory and mental perception will eventually
> develop as we evolve further and further, but there can be no
> doubt that our understanding of what 'reality' is will undergo
> radical revisions as evolution continues beyond our present
> intellectually oriented state.
>
> The current estimates are that the universe has about 10 to
> the 22nd power stars in it. This is, to put it another way,
> 10,000 million million million stars. Just to count these stars,
> at a rate of about one per second, would take about 10,000
> times longer than science currently estimates the universe to
> have been in existence! Whatever be the nature of the Power
> that has brought this unimaginably vast creation into
> existence, it is certainly far beyond our human form, and I
> would seriously question whether we have reached a stage of
> evolution advanced enough to in any way comprehend it.
>
> So to be quite honest, when I hear arguments being made
> concerning the true nature of the Supreme, or about the
> ultimate nature of reality, I question whether, at the current
> state of our evolution, any kind of categoric opinion can be
> put forward without serious qualification. We would laugh at
> the idea of two ants debating about how the Empire State
> building came into existence, but isn't this somewhat
> analogous to our current ideas concerning the Ultimate?
>
> The history of human thought since civilization began has
> been characterized by one major revision after another in
> almost every sphere of knowledge. Why should this trend not
> continue? It is comforting to our egos to think that we are
> just one step removed from the Ultimate, and can truly
> understand, with just a little bit of thought and reasoning, its
> nature, purposes, and methods. But there is simply no reason
> whatsoever to suppose that this is the case. Perhaps a more
> realistic approach would be to regard our current ideas and
> opinions as tentative at best, and to avoid making any kind of
> categoric statement about the nature of the Ultimate. Such a
> step necessitates a flexibility in our belief structures, but is
> ultimately, I think, more productive as it leaves us more open
> to new ideas.
>
> Sincerely;
>
> Michael Bradford
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:05:36 EST
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: berryATnospamcnwl.igs.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com
Subject: Re: KA and Half-Baked Theology ("Everything is God")
Message-ID: <10086931.34c0d6d2ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-01-17 10:14:21 EST, berryATnospamcnwl.igs.net writes:
<< Michael Bradford wrote:
>
> Dear Fellow Seekers;
>
> In all the weighty deliberations that have been expressed
> recently in the series of e-mails that have come accross my
> electornic doorstep, I have been struck by the fact that in all
> the arguments that have been expressed so far, there seems to
> be a basic assumption being made that humanity, in its
> current exalted state, is qualified to make categoric statements
> about the ultimate nature of reality.
> >>
Harsha writes: Not Humanity but Humans. And why not?
<< Michael Bradford wrote further:
>
Since life began to emerge on this planet some hundreds of
> millions of years ago, there has been a definite but
> unmistakable trend towards more complex forms of life, with
> more and more advanced brains and nervous systems. Thus,
> we see the progression from rudimentary life forms, to single
> celled organisms, to simple plants, to lower order animals, to
> reptiles, then mammals, and finally to the higher order
> primates such as ourselves.
>
Harsha writes: That seems to be the case.
<< Michael Bradford wrote further:
But unless this very prominent trend in evolution has now
> come to a screeching halt (and I do not see any reason to
> suppose that it has), there is no reason whatsoever to suppose
> that life will not evolve as far from our current level as we are
> from, say, a microbe. It is totally beyond our comprehension
> what forms of sensory and mental perception will eventually
> develop as we evolve further and further, but there can be no
> doubt that our understanding of what 'reality' is will undergo
> radical revisions as evolution continues beyond our present
> intellectually oriented state.
>
Harsha writes: What you say is true. But why do you limit your
conceptualization to sensory and mental perceptions only? As long as that
limitation is there you are quite right. What you call "reality" will undergo
radical revisions as evolution continues.
<< Michael Bradford wrote further:
> So to be quite honest, when I hear arguments being made
> concerning the true nature of the Supreme, or about the
> ultimate nature of reality, I question whether, at the current
> state of our evolution, any kind of categoric opinion can be
> put forward without serious qualification. We would laugh at
> the idea of two ants debating about how the Empire State
> building came into existence, but isn't this somewhat
> analogous to our current ideas concerning the Ultimate?
>
Harsha writes: You should certainly be honest and continue to be skeptical
concerning the true nature of the Supreme and the Ultimate nature of Reality.
As long as you believe that you will find Reality or the Supreme through
either gross mental or sensory perception or subtle (astral) Superconscious
perceptions, you impose a limitation. From that point of view, the analogy you
gave about two ants debating is quite good.
Harsha
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:23:49 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #49
Message-ID: <19980117162349.5122.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
> Tie 16 feet of cotton clothesline round it, not too tight, smoothly
>in a spiral.=20
>
>
>Gee, I don't know, Is 16 ft. enough ? : )>
>
>
>Jack
>
>Maybe depends how far you want to be "led"?? But you have definitely
been given enough rope to hang yourself...:))))
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:40:32 -0700 (MST)
From: Amy Johnson <acjoATnospamholly.ColoState.EDU>
To: Susan Carlson <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, msticklesATnospamantalys.com
Subject: RE: signs of chakra?
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95.980117103333.194256A-100000ATnospamholly.ColoState.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Susan,
I have lived in Colorado all my life and all my life I have had problems
with allergies. Recently I have even been diagnosed with mild asthma. I
have a minor but perpetual cough as does my whole family. I recently read
Carolyn Myss's Anatomy of the spirit which talks about these sorts of
respiratory problems being related to the throat and heart chakras. I
see myself as a loving, non-judgemental person, so I have some trouble
believing my problems are related to that, although my chakras still have
some cleansing to go through. I have considered often moving to a more
humid climate, especially with some of the job opportunities that have
presented themselves as I am graduating from college in May. However I
also feel called to start my own business, in which case it would be much
smoother to start it in this area that I am familiar with and have
contacts in. So the humidity and my respiritory system may have to wait a
while longer.
Hope this brings a little comfort to you -- I'd be interested in a reply.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Have you hugged a tree today?
Yours truly, Amy Jo
On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Susan Carlson wrote:
> Dear Mike,
>
> You wrote:
>
>
> I've had similar throat problems every summer since moving from
> Florida
> to Colorado - throat tightness and persistent coughing. The
> doctor
> couldn't figure it out, and I have no history of allergies.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~
> I moved to Denver from hot, humid, fungoid southwest florida, Fort
> Meyers, about 5 years ago. All the years...20 of 'em...i lived in
> florida i never had a problem with any type of respiratory problems or
> allergies.
>
> Every year, since I have moved here, after Thanksgiving, I get what the
> doctors call viral bronchitis. Funny, viral illnesses only last a week
> at most...but i feel usually ill with 'throat tightness and persistent
> coughing' until the end of January. This usually leads to some
> debilitating pneumonia symptoms and fatigue.
>
> I just noticed that today is the first day i felt no throat tightness
> or any coughing at all. You would think with all the mold, mildew, and
> fungus floating around the Gulf Coast I would be sick all the time.
> Never was.Its only in Colorado that I have had to use Seldane and an
> inhaler and hard core antibiotics.
>
> This is the first year that the pneumonia did not develop. Now being
> the astute metaphysical practioner that I am I have examined, searched,
> meditated to find what's up. Now I know there is an energetic cause, an
> etheric template I would call it, for all diseases and an underlying
> belief system that holds the structure for the template to manifest. I
> am familiar with all the holistic explanations for allergies. This one
> has eluded me.
>
> The doctor tells me I am not 'used' to Colorado flora. But its been 5
> years!
>
> This is the first year that i have not gotten so deathly ill, i felt
> like dying just to get some rest. Hmmmm....And this is the first year
> that I would consider my K becoming 'mature' ( if that's the right word
> ) in my body. So maybe I am getting closer and closer to having peace so
> that illness is no longer an acceptable vehicle to bring me
> rest....Hmmmmmmm.
>
> Or maybe sometimes....a cough is just a cough. Who knows?
>
> Blessings,
> Susan
>
>
> ***************************
> 'You can believe anything you want.
> The universe is not obliged to keep a straight face.'
> ...Solomon Shert
>
>
> ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:57:31 EST
From: Afperry <AfperryATnospamaol.com>
To: gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re. DIRECTION
Message-ID: <3f2bc698.34c11b3dATnospamaol.com>
Dear Gene,
I was interested in your posting regarding the direction of evolution. May I
enter the fray by venturing a personal, itemised perspective:
1. Evolution cannot be explained: it is simply inherent in God´s nature to
know Him/Her/Itself and seek ever-greater perfection.
2. The undifferentiated Unity becomes differentiated by Its desire to know the
infinite potential of Its own being (the involution of spirit into matter) and
in accordance with this innate impulse returns ultimately to Its
undifferentiated state (the evolution of spirit from matter). This cyclical
process is everywhere evidenced in Nature, the micro- as well as the
macrocosm.
3. We are God. God is us. We are both the Source and the Goal and our apparent
separation has been caused only by ignorance (perhaps the term ‘maya´ sums it
up best). The ‘pilgrimage of the soul´ is simply a journey back to knowledge
of our real nature. (In a Unity there can be no parts, which would be a
multiplicity however inter-connected, and that Unity must therefore exist in
its totality everywhere, including in each of us. Sometimes I think we
overlook the enormity of what THE ONE actually implies).
4. The force that impels cosmic evolution is therefore our own inherent nature
too, but once we have acquired self-consciousness and thence discrimination
through life/karma, we can opt to work consciously with this impulse and
accelerate our evolution. The destination for all of us has never been in
doubt, only the speed and manner in which we reach it. To this extent, it must
be said that an evolutionary blueprint exists and that we cannot travel in the
wrong direction in the long term. (Incidentally, whether we as individuals
actually have free will is surely not important as long as we believe we have;
it´s simply a question of whether we see the whole picture or just a limited
part of it).
5. This force is God´s dynamic power in us, as in the whole cosmos, call it
shakti or what you will - the power that creates, preserves, destroys and re-
creates. We are each simply an expression of that Divine creative energy - a
co-creator with the Divine, not a creation distinct from some external
Creator.
6. Energy dissipated is weak, focused it becomes power. As we evolve,
initially through this Divine impulse but later consciously, we naturally
focus our lives/minds towards our Source and this is greatly intensified by
meditation and allied spiritual disciplines (which commence when the inner
impulse reaches a certain clarity in our external lives). The creative energy
is thereby harnessed as the mind focuses and internalises, and we become aware
of the power build-up within ourselves. This is what we identify as kundalini,
the Divine creative power now in Its heightened, transformative aspect i.e.
the evolutionary power of our own Higher Self harnessed by our life-mode.
7. Kundalini is not imposed on us: IT IS US - the quintessence, the real us
in our most vibrant aspect, although we may identify it as separate from us as
a God/Goddess or power outside the Self. The kundalini is simply the Divine in
His/Her/Its kinetic aspect and is therefore present in everyone; only the
expression and degree differ. Its awakening is inherently natural and will
occur to everyone at the right time and in the right manner, not necessarily
suddenly, and is therefore no more special than any other stage of evolution
(although our egos may not agree <g>). Science and bulk-humanity will catch up
with this when the time is right and not before.
Just my thoughts and intuitions!
With blessings,
Alan
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:09:10 -0800
From: iri <iriATnospamivyrealty.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #51
Message-Id: <199801172208.QAA32284ATnospamsmtp1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Mystress Angelique:
Thank You for the vocabulary lesson. Unlike Jack's interrogative below your
explanation, my only comment is HMMMMMMM! After all, what else is there to
say except perhaps that I do not understand most cyberspace emoticons and/or
diagrams, so for the most part your diagrams are lost on me. Guess that
makes me a novice in cyberspace.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
At 09:14 AM 17/01/98 -0600, you wrote:
>kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 51
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:57:14
>From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
>To: iri <iriATnospamivyrealty.com>
>Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
>Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #49
>Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980117065714.3a17346eATnospamdomin8rex.com>
>
>
> OK: A lesson.. with diagrams.
> This is a lingam. <==3
> This is a yoni. (^)
> They fit together thusly: (^)<==3
> But put a condom on the lingam, first.
> Or.. for more advanced seekers..
>
> Take one erect lingam, attatched to one spiritual seeker.
> Tie 16 feet of cotton clothesline round it, not too tight, smoothly in a
>spiral.
> Tie the rope ends neatly, leaving a few feet for a handle.
> Pull on the handle, gently, but firmly while challenging the seeker to
>stay grounded.
> This will be quite difficult for the seeker, because they will be dealing
>with deep rooted fears of lingam loss. Support them with your energy. Don't
>tug too hard or sharply. The lesson is about trust, so be careful not to
>manifest thier fears...
> If the seeker can not only remain grounded, but get into the witness
>state, and discover and name all of their guardian angels, they pass the
>initiation.
> If the lingam shrivels up so the rope falls off, they don't pass. They
>must practice, meditate, and come back and try again next month.
> Blessings, Mystress.
>
>At 17:37 16/01/98 -0800, iri wrote:
>>----------
>>beats me as to what is a lingam...so, Dear Mystress Angelique, do tell the
>>ignorant ones among us, please, so that we may follow your conversational
>>thread...Thank You in advance for the vocabulary education we are about to
>>receive...
>
> Mystress Angelique Serpent,
> Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
> Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
> :D ;) :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :D :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :)
> Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at
> different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing.
> -- Clive James
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:05:50 GMT
>From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
>To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
>Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #49
>Message-ID: <34c7ba7f.62191264ATnospammailhost.worldnet.att.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Tie 16 feet of cotton clothesline round it, not too tight, smoothly
>in a spiral.
>Gee, I don't know, Is 16 ft. enough ? : )>
>Jack
--------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:34:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Millikan <millikanATnospampnn.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #49
Message-Id: <199801172134.NAA03787ATnospampnn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:23 AM 1/17/98 PST, you wrote:
>
>> Tie 16 feet of cotton clothesline round it, not too tight, smoothly
>>in a spiral.=20
>>
>>
>>Gee, I don't know, Is 16 ft. enough ? : )>
>>
>>
>>Jack
>>
>>Maybe depends how far you want to be "led"?? But you have definitely
>been given enough rope to hang yourself...:))))
maybe he was planning on tying it around his tongue, too.
Though it might be a little difficult to name the angels that way, it
probably would keep him out of trouble for a while.
BB
Barbara
>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:59:16 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
CC: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
"heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com" <heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com>
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: Responders on KA-THEOLOGY-GOD-FEELINGS
Message-ID: <34C08F03.6012ATnospamintercomm.com>
anandajyoti wrote:
> I am sorry if I have offended anyone, as I am sometimes, under this
> inexplicable force, which takes over to automatic writing, not able to
> stop.
> In spite of it all, I do have the strong belief, that the discussion did
> also encourage some thinking on the part of those who responded and also
> those who read it.
> GG here:
>I'm trying to remember something you said that is offensive, nope can't fine it. Sorry. GG
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:25:19 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: "Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D." <hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com>
CC: iri <iriATnospamivyrealty.com>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com,
haertzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com
Subject: Re: just a babbling brook as my grade 8 art teacher would say
Message-ID: <34C0A32A.7843ATnospamintercomm.com>
Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D. wrote:
>
> Dear, dear iri, your post moved me very much. Within a couple of
> years, my mother died, my best friend died, my husband left me and many
> of my belongings were destroyed by the Northridge quake. Subsequently,
> I gave up my house and my practice. Much like Job, I railed at God a lot because I felt I just couldn't stand any more loss. I finally got
> that I was being asked to really, really surrender, something I feel I
> am only beginning to learn how to do.
Holly, from Gloria:
All of these things, while terrible to the human mind and emotions, do
have a tendency to make you really stop and take notice. It is like my
friend who died of Cancer after a 12 year process, she went through the
anguish but then as she recognized the opportunity to grow she totally
rejoyed in the grace of God to bring this knowing to her in the way it
came. And, she soon felt blessed and wonderful about this all around.
Holly:
Most of all, I have to surrender
> my need to understand everything.
Gloria:
This was her fight also, she really wanted to know what she did or
thought that would bring this condition onto herself, and she pretty
much knew when it happened and how she manifest it. She lived with a
know in her solar plexus for many years. Then one day she stopped doing
it and said, Why do I need to know this, it is useless to know, all I
have to do is really surrender to God's Will for me. And she did it.
Once she was in this mode, the fear of death left, the anger over not
being here to see grandchildren left, and she even let go of wanting to
be with her husband, and sincerely wanted someone to come to him so he
wouldn't be alone. Barbara was only 55. She said she felt like all of
that stuff just melted off of her and what was left was nothing but
excitement and energy for her journey. And really some curious knowing
about what to expect, this is when we really delved into preparation for
the other side.
She went to mass almost daily, had confession when ever it came to her,
and we spent many hours in meditation with the focus on entering into
God's Vision of Barbara as soul/spirit in perfect harmony with him/her.
We did this in expectation of that last moment when one has the
opportunity to totally focus on God instead of the tearing away. We
spoke in depth about this, when I worked with her I gave her light
transfusions just as one would give blood. And everytime we were
finished she felt like she was totally lifted and out of harms way even
though in physical reality her body was in the process of death. It was
really beautiful to experience this with her. And to watch her body
become white and gray but she had this wonderful aura and glow in her
cheeks, since this huge smile was on her face.
She asked me to speak for her at her funeral and the only thing I could
really share was that Barbara worked with her death process exactly in
the way that was most beneficial to the soul/spirit. We never pushed
back from talking about it, we talked in detail about the process and
the feelings she would have as the body shut down, and also about the
thoughts and emotions that would stream through the mind as this
happened. The natural reaction is to think of children, husband and
wanting to hold on, instead we focused on centering into God at that
moment, and really just being with him/her then with nothing else coming
to the mind.
The day this was happening I felt Barbara so strong and was with her,
and after it happened I went into the mortuary to see her. She even had
a smile on her face, I went ...Yes, it worked.
I was so excited for her it was just wonderful. I felt the same thing
when my mom passed. This may sound strange but it isn't so easy to die,
and to get through the process with grace is so fantastic. This is what
I do believe we should all know and prepare for so that in life we live
every second, but in death it is so wonderful to really surrender and go
into the arms of our creator with excitement, enthusiasm and joy. This
is so very possible and it is the only way to go. I believe that the
sign of really knowing God is one leaves this world really charged and
ready to go on, and thus can experience a truly happy death. This is
when life is full.
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
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