1998/01/13 14:40
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #38
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 38
Today's Topics:
Re: Clarification on Some Fundamenta [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: genuine or delusion [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistres ]
Re: shaktipat, obligations, connecti [ Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com> ]
Re: Synchronicity [ Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com> ]
Re: Awakening and Synchronicity [ freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net> ]
Totally irrelevant! January Diets [ Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com> ]
RE:Awakening and Synchronicit [ freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net> ]
Poles shifting [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Re: HRTZEN: Re: WAS Energies/Detachm [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: Theosophy [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
feeling pain was re:understanding [ "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhot ]
Re: WAS Energies/Detachment IS?? [ Teresa <TGarlandATnospamVIPMail.com> ]
Theosophy [ Afperry <AfperryATnospamaol.com> ]
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:43:24 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Clarification on Some Fundamentals Invited
Message-ID: <19980113184325.7888.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>
>Resent-Sender: kundalini-l-requestATnospamlists.execpc.com
>
>What are feelings? As I understand it , it is the response created by
>our heart., mind, emotions, and phsyical objects on our minds.This can
>happen in two ways, I believe.
>One, sensations from the outside, through the five sensory organs, and
>
>Two, also through the ego, emotions, and the spirit.
>Can all type of feelings touch the heart?
>Or do all feelings generate or emerge from our ego?
>How would one diffrentiate its source as to where the feelings are
>emerging from?
>Any comments or suggestions are welcome on the list, as there are many
>on the list who are so well versed on it.
>
>Anandajyoti
>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
>Gloria Lee writes:
>
>Such a big question.. look forward to others thoughts, just a small bit
that came to me to mention tho. it seems important to recall how we
begin to experience anything...with regard to ego and mind..we know that
infants are aware of emotional state of the mother even in the
womb..presumably their ego and "thinking, logical mind" is not so well
developed yet as to have thoughts about this awareness they
experience..yet they are "knowing"-and "aware"
and knowing experiences of sensory input such as sounds like mother's
voice and the heartbeat, etc..but also somehow experiencing her
emotional states also and this is not just sensory based, like chemicals
alone would convey this in some physical manner?? These experiences and
emotional states are being recorded and stored in the body/mind the
infant is reacting to and with them.. THIS is all a core memory
awareness stored in us all..prior to existence of ego awareness..thus
emotions seem primary somehow to even our very sense of a separate self.
Why this seems important to me..is hard to express, but I guess I would
say that it indicates "No, all feelings do not generate or emerge from
our ego." As a mother who has experienced this oneness feeling will
know it can be quite heart wrenching to then experience the separation
of the infant as it grows into separate self. Some say our longing to
return to oneness is even born of this original infant memory..what do
you think about that??
______________________
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:33:32
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: SchrLL <SchrLLATnospamaol.com>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: genuine or delusion
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980112233332.397f93c4ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Yup, the healing light brings up the issues, if they need clearing.
Feels like bliss if they don't..
Thanks for the thoughts.. Blessings, Mystress.
At 22:44 12/01/98 EST, you wrote:
<....> Some people get frightened because
>it makes them feel! Others get turned on, while others feel love or
>sensuality. Some get very scared and think it is the devil and others get
>high and think it is the Holy Spirit.
>I just try to stay centered and in my heart.
>Love and Light, Linda
>
>
Mystress Angelique Serpent,
Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
:D ;) :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :D :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :)
Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at
different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing.
-- Clive James
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:29:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: shaktipat, obligations, connections
Message-Id: <199801131629.IAA11228ATnospampnn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>At 06:35 PM 1/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>
>>Kurt replies:
>>There are a wide variety of phenomenon that are lumped under the name of
shaktipat. Some people >refer to an individual (the initiator) merely
conveying a little energy or prana to the recipient >(the initiate) as
shaktipat. At the other extreme some, such as Swami Rama and Pandit
Tiruganit (sp?) >won't accept anything less than the
>>imparting of samadhi. Personally I believe the deepest shaktipat the
initiator awakens each cakra in your subtle body.
>>
>>So I think there are two parts to your question: 1) What is your
responsibility to the individual >that imparts shaktipat to you. That
depends on the teacher and their tradition. In some traditions >you should
be willing to lay down your life for that teacher. In others you can hardly
be expected to >recognize each other on the street.
>>If you wonder - ask your initiator.
>
>Blythe:
>I did. Here is the last part of his answer: "It is your energies that will be
>stimulated and strengthened, they will take you where you are innately
>programmed to go. What I do is simply give a big push, flying is up to you."
>
>>
>>The tougher question is: 2) What connection have you created between
yourself and your initiator? I >haven't quite figured out this
cyber-initation via web site stuff so I can't comment on that. >Ordinarily,
when the initiation is done personally whether you have simply received some
``energy'' >from an initiator or whether they have
>>fully altered your subtle body, I believe you have created a strong link
between yourself and the >initiator.
>Blythe:
>Ummhmmm.So I need to be sure that this is a person with whom I will want
such a linkage, as it will be a strong one.
>
>
>>We create these energetic links all the time unconsciously. Ever wonder
why ``breaking up" is hard to >do!''.
>Blythe: Ok. Hence, speaking as a magick wielder, those 'Unbinding' rituals
done to break links formed between people or between a person and a
manuscript sent out to the publisers, etc. Or, speaking as an occasional
energy manipulator being trained by the local librarian, the need to
disconnect inappropriate cords plugged into people.
>
>
>>I wrote a number of different things on shaktipat in my siddha-mahayoga
faq that you can find at the kundalini gateway and on spirit web. Check it
out and tell me if you think it makes sense.
>>Good luck,
>>KUrt
>
>Thanks, Kurt. I'll check it out. Oops. How do I find it?
>Blessings,
>Blythe
>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:11:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com>
To: "Kirk Anderson" <d242kaosATnospamgte.net>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Synchronicity
Message-Id: <199801131611.IAA10875ATnospampnn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:46 PM 1/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm not sure how cogent this is, as I haven't experienced any (identifiable)
>K-awakening myself. But, for more than ten years (ever since I started
>paying attention) I have had a fairly unceasing stream of small
>synchronicities, punctuated infrequently by quite large and shocking ones.
>Whereas most people seem to be nonplussed by even the smallest, I somehow
>feel that things aren't going exactly right if I don't notice several every
>day!
>
>What I'm wondering is this. If increased synchro-activity is a some kind of
>a sign of (possibly unrecognised) K-A. The reason I ask, is that many other
>things that list members describe as being indirectly symptomatic of K-A, I
>share. Many of the relationship patterns, many of the intuitions about
>social and spiritual dynamics, and other things I could name if I could get
>to them *~)
Hi Kirk. Hi Nancy.
Once again I'm going to try to weave a net of words to catch
something I only have mental images of.
There's a state of being I am in sometimes where many synchronicities,
"many of the relationship patterns, ... intuitions about social and
spiritual dynamics, and other things I could name if I could get to them ,"
occur. It is as if, by ceasing to resist the pattern, or the flow of ( ),
I allow that flow or pattern to interact with me. I become aware.
Second try. Let's see if analogy will help. By swimming or floating
with the current of the river, rather than across or against it, I allow it
to support my direction. I no longer have to fight for every inch, every breath.
Possibly it becomes easier to attain and maintain this state with
increase K-flow. It has felt, to me, more like an issue of trust than K. My
mother used to tell us kids of a memory of a life when she was a single
celled organism floating down stream. She described the experience as being
one of 'prickly bliss'. Then the quality of the current changed. It became
faster and bouncier. She began to fall over a cataract with the water. She
tensed up, resisting, fearing. She was crushed. She said that what she
learned was that if she had relaxed into the speed and bounce and fall, she
would have lived.
Yours, surrendering to wordlessness,
Blythe
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:27:55 -0800
From: freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net>
To: Jack <sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Awakening and Synchronicity
Message-ID: <34BB960B.3230ATnospamblarg.net>
>If you have a browser, come check out my "Game"
......., maybe a link would help?
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/(c)/art/inyr/inyr.htm
--
..freda..
BE-IS-AM ...manifesting again...
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/01rg/hm/frhm.htm
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:53:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com>
To: suzukawaATnospamopen.org
Cc: centerATnospamiac.net, myrrhATnospamjb.com
Subject: Totally irrelevant! January Diets
Message-Id: <199801131553.HAA10523ATnospampnn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>From: Linda Fink <lindaATnospamfink.com>{And many others before
>Subject: January Diets -Reply -Forwarded
>
>>
>>=-=-=
>>>>>Twas the month after Christmas, and all through the house
>>>>>Nothing would fit me, not even a blouse.
>>>>>The cookies I'd nibbled, the eggnog I'd taste
>>>>>At the holiday parties had gone to my waist.
>>>>>When I got on the scales there arose such a number!
>>>>>When I walked to the store (less a walk than a lumber).
>>>>>I'd remember the marvelous meals I'd prepared;
>>>>>The gravies and sauces and beef nicely rared,
>>>>>The wine and the rum balls, the bread and the cheese
>>>>>And the way I'd never said, "No thank you, please."
>>>>>As I dressed myself in my husband's old shirt
>>>>>And prepared once again to do battle with dirt---
>>>>>I said to myself, as I only can "You can't spend a winter
>>>>>disguised as a man!"
>>>>>
>>>>>So--away with the last of the sour cream dip,
>>>>>Get rid of the fruit cake, each cracker and chip
>>>>>Every last bit of food that I like must be banished
>>>>>Till all the additional ounces have vanished.
>>>>>I won't have a cookie--not even a lick.
>>>>>I'll want only to chew on a long celery stick.
>>>>>I won't have hot biscuits, or corn bread, or pie,
>>>>>I'll munch on a carrot and quietly cry.
>>>>>I'm hungry, I'm lonesome, and life is a bore---
>>>>>But isn't that what January is for?
>>>>>Unable to giggle, no longer a riot.
>>>>>Happy New Year to all and to all a good diet!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:10:38 -0800
From: freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE:Awakening and Synchronicit
Message-ID: <34BB91FE.1AB4ATnospamblarg.net>
Hey Jack :)
If you have a browser, come check out my "Game" I call it The "River of
Knowlege Manifestation Game" [you will need to scroll down the page just
a little] I think it is pretty close to what you call
>synchronicity (meaningful coincidence).
granted, I am no writter, and my concepts are a bit immature compared to
most on this list, but I think its the same thing.
This is typical for K? I have noticed that these things happen quicker
and quicker in general, but almost instintanious when my mind is
"racing"
--
..freda..
BE-IS-AM ...manifesting again...
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/01rg/hm/frhm.htm
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 05:24:20 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Poles shifting
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.980113051620.19917B-100000ATnospamuhunix4>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi List: I read someone's post to the effect that waterwasgoing the
wrongway in the drain: >>>s I always do. The water always flows in a
clockwise > direction down the drain. Today the water started flowing in
a very > rythmic > backwards and forward motion and then switched to
clockwise. After a minute > it > folded in on itself and then started
again in an anti clockwise direction. > After another minute it folded in
on itself again and switched direction. > This > kept happening until the
water had drained away.
I have been experimenting with a compass. I leave it facing North and
every day I check to see if the compass is still facing the little mark I
made for North on my shelf. No.. it has shifted a huge amount from where
it was only a week ago... on my compass it looks to be at least 10 *
degrees or more. Quite a significant shift. I have also noticed that
people here are very upset.. in my building last night around the time of
the full moon, there were at lest 3 families that Icould hear having a
yelling match at 1 a.m. Normally it is very quiet here.
With me too.. I neve have troublesleeping unless there is tectonic
disturbances. I always wake up at least an hour before anyu kind of
earthquake and cannot sleep. This past night I did not sleep at all.. I
hve been quite aware that there is something going on... my body tells me.
Thanks for the feedback here. I wonder if this has been affecting Daniel
too. We are all part of the earth. I am sure it had a lot to do with my
outburst at the psychiatric profession.. on Sunday.. <BG> Ho humm.. the
loonies and the full moon again!
Well we shall see... Blessings / Ruth
******
Love allows freedom. Drop the idea that attachment and love are the same
thing. They are enemies. It is attachment that destroys love. (Osho)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ruth Trimble email:<trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
http://166.122.32.61/trimble/
*****
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:19:09 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: Re: WAS Energies/Detachment IS??
Message-ID: <19980113141910.14625.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>I still have, in which he had written, that the whole interior of the
plane was flooded in soothing light, then a white robed, bearded person
, quite tall and slender appeared, to him, and asked him to be at peace
with himself, and stroked his head. He was very happy, and alluded that
it was Jesus, who came to soothe him.
>
>On arrival, he went to his shrine room, and lay down to rest, after an
hour my uncle went to see him, and found that LIFE had gone out of the
body.
>
>Now think of it, my dad , born a Hindu, lived a Hindu, died and
cremated a Hindu, had the touch of Christ.; He was not baptized or taken
the holy sacrament. So, I guess , he was not condemned, as many believe
that unless you accept Christ as your saviour, you are condemned
eternally in hell.
>To them I would say they are already in hell. I am digressing here.
Sorry.
>All this happened, due to his total surrender and detachment as you
say. In Sanskrit the word we use is "Saranagatahah" in nearest English
it would mean self-abnegation. In our tradition, it means a combination,
of trust, surrender, devotion, sincerity, detachment, dependent solely
on the will of the Divine, all combined. There the ego has no face
anymore, the small ego just steps aside, for the Divine within to
emerge.
>I am sure your friend Barbara had similar experience of the Divine
Communion, even while in the body. That's ineffable bliss. Is this K?
Yes it is.
>So, yes detachment also strengthens through regular practice, what
doesn't?
>
>Anandajyoti
>
>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
>
>
>Thank you so much for sharing this story with us. Somehow the
peacefulness of your father's self-surrender becomes present thru your
words. To end his life's journey with this journey home and to be
welcomed so to his true home. Your father had the eyes of his heart open
to see Jesus, tho he was born a Hindu...from all the stories of the
Jesus who became so real to me, I have come to believe he could not wish
to exclude anyone, as the man-made church traditions have so
unfortunately taught, with their silly rules about baptism. The true
baptism of the spirit was your father's and his story is a true witness
to the living reality of spiritual truth. Just to imagine - how silly it
would be for Jesus and Buddha to be saying, " oh, this one is mine and
that one is yours.." Just so, your father's precious gift to us is his
vision of that oneness revealed. So, may I ask your dad's name ?...to
remember him with his vision and to pray my gratitude for him. Thank
you.
______________________
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:58:47 EST
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: AfperryATnospamaol.com
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Theosophy
Message-ID: <9a733aeb.34bb6508ATnospamaol.com>
Dear Alan,
Thanks for your comments. They are well informed. Just one note, I do
not feel close to Krishnamurti or his teachings at all. I only think he acted
courageously in breaking away from the Theosophical Society. As you say, I
have no doubt that Theosophical Society has done a lot of good and thanks for
pointing it out.
Best wishes
Harsha
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 05:48:37 PST
From: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: feeling pain was re:understanding
Message-ID: <19980113134838.23963.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Ok. I am officially turning off my cloaking device and coming off
delurking status.
Peswami wrote:
I HAD THEN TO ACCEPT THAT ALL ARE ONE. I ALONE CANNOT HAVE
BLISS
WHEN THEIR IS DUKKHA OR PAIN ALROUND. AND EVERY DAY MANY TIMES I
SEE THIS
PAIN FLOWING IN AROUND ME. THIS IS NOT A MOMENTARY
EXPERIENCE.THIS IS
REALITY.
All around me is bliss. What i choose to feel/experience is up to me.
A person can only reflect/feel what is unhealed within themselves.
I feel/see/experience joy...it uplifts those people around me. No room
for pain in joy, it is forgotten.
I feel/see/experience misery...it causes pain and sufferring to those
around me...joy is not even a beloved memory.
What you are, what you experience is up to you...your personal choice.
Anything else makes us a victim of our surroundings, rather than
co-creators in our universe.
You can create your reality...I will create mine.
Blessings,
Susan
______________________
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:23:58 -0500
From: Teresa <TGarlandATnospamVIPMail.com>
To: lodpressATnospamintercomm.com
CC: Gloria Lee <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com,
heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com
Subject: Re: WAS Energies/Detachment IS??
Message-ID: <34BB6AEC.70DE8C67ATnospamVIPMail.com>
That was beautiful, Gloria, thank you. I had a dream last night that I was trying to connect with "HeartZen". Finally, I did. I awoke, my body tingling with Pranic energy. I woke this morning to find your message.
What you write is what I need to do.
Teresa
Gloria Greco wrote:
> Gloria Greco wrote:
> >
> > Gloria Greco here again:
> > Let me give you an example of detachment at work. A dear friend of mine
> > had Liver Cancer, I didn't know she had it until about three years ago
> > now. Anyway, I met her she told me about it and she told me what the
> > doctor's had said. She also said I really need to get back together with
> > you because I have to deal with this, and I have decided not to have
> > traditional treatments, I have already outlived what I could have
> > expected from it, so I am not putting myself or family through this.She
> > was into the cancer at that point about 9 or ten years, which had amazed
> > the doctors even then.
> > Can you help me, she said? I had known Barbara from our early meditation
> > meetings in the 70's when I had taught her to meditate. She came for
> > maybe a year or two and then went back to college, remarried, etc.
> > Anyway, I said, lets get together and see what happens. When we talked I
> > could see the areas in her life that was causing her stress and pain,
> > and on top of this she had a liver that was about 50 or 60% eaten away
> > from Cancer, at this time she was having some pretty incredible pain.
> > So, we began and it went like this, Barbara I'm going to give you
> > direct access to my energy, whenever you need help you have my
> > permission to connect up to me, what you do with this light...holy
> > spirit power is between you and God. (I don't interfere with soul decisions or manipulate for healing it is totally up to God how that plays down) This can be used for healing if
> > that is what is needed, or to help you make your transition, or to
> > release you from the pain of the moment if necessary, whatever is
> > needed, since your body is struggling now, we will leave it up to God as
> > to how this is going to play out, but just think of me and I will be
> > with you. I was and she did.
> > This is what happened. Within days Barbara had no pain, nothing at all.
> > She had started to meditate again, prayed daily, went to mass,
> > confession, and literally turned herself over to God as she knew she was
> > in preparation for whatever was to be. She had quit praying to be healed
> > and now prayed to accept whatever God's Will was for her. She prayed
> > that she would have the inner strength to accept and surrender in full
> > to whatever was to happen in her life and that each of her children and
> > her husband would have the same experience. This way they would not feel
> > her being torn out of their lives.
> > Barbara lived until three months ago, she literally blew people's
> > minds because we went to lunch just days before she died. She was on
> > hospice for about the last seven or eight months, if you know about
> > hospice they come into medicate and help with the death process. Well in
> > Barbara's case since she didn't feel pain they had to convince her that
> > her body was in pain, she had wretching that she didn't enjoy a bit but
> > she didn't have pain. They said the wretching was because the insides
> > were in pain and somehow she had just disconnected from it, but that her
> > body was in pain so they had to give her morphine. So she did take the
> > morphine in the last months, but as she got use to it, at first it would
> > just knock her out...again through detachment, she would wake up, pick
> > up the phone, call me and say lets go to lunch, I want to live today.
> > And I want a pastrami sandwich.
> > This is the way we lived out her last months. Her husband would think
> > ok, this is it and then she would wake up and say will you call Gloria
> > for me and have her come over. We were connected, and she was so
> > prepared for the transition that it was really beautiful, there was no
> > death just moving on. The day before she died she was up picking up things in her house trying to tell Bill what he needed to do. She lived everyday no matter what, and she lived
> > this through detachment. I hope this helps you understand what I'm
> > saying.
> > As Barbara detached from the pain, she literally moved into a higher
> > place in the brain where she wasn't experiencing that pain. Since she
> > had let go of the fear and desire to stay no matter what, she no longer
> > lived in worry or trying to hold on to what she knew. She had to
> > surrender to what was, and in so doing so she was totally lifted out of the
> > place that was really hell for her at the time when we got together. Detachment is what she mastered, she observed herself vomiting, she observed herself feeling sorry for herself, she observed her self crying and she observed herself thanking God for everything she had received in letting go. She lived more fully because she wasn't so personally involved in the pain and anguish of the death process, once she accepted God's Will for her she actually became excited at what she was going to experience on the other side. And we talked in detail of what that process was, she has only come to me once on the other side and it was with a huge smile on her face. She was radiant.
> >This is real change and she left feeling wonderful. As did her family, they knew it was time and it was ok. This is
> > transformation, it can only be done through grace and Divine Will.
> >
> > > Your understanding of detachment is 100% correct. I'll try to explain my
> > > question. As one would expect, much of my world is numb and gray. I am
> > > still new at "mindfullness", so the feelings I notice are the strong ones,
> > > like depression. I have learned to look at a strong feeling and detach from
> > > it. I'm getting pretty good at this. If it is a strong mood, like
> > > depression, I may be in its presence (and watching it) for quite a while.
> > > Detaching does not take the mood away, as you correctly stated, it just
> > > removes identification. The mind and body still feel the mood. Another
> > > feeling, perhaps grief, will come for a few minutes, and then leave as I
> > > watch it. So you see, there is a difference in the amount of time that is
> > > spent with the mood.
> > >
> --
>
> Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
> Gloria Joy Greco
> e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
> http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
> &
> http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
> Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:26:56 EST
From: Afperry <AfperryATnospamaol.com>
To: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Theosophy
Message-ID: <3af85e88.34bb5d91ATnospamaol.com>
>Harsha writes: Dear Peshwani: Annie Besant and that whole Theosophical crowd
did one good thing and that was to bring up Krishnamurti. Krishnamurti at a
very critical time rejected the whole Theosophical approach and went solo. A
wise man indeed. There was a good reason for that. I am sure John Bill
Beaudine, who used to go hear Krishnamurti could fill us in even better. I
find the views of Theosophical society to be inconsistent with traditional
Yogic and Vedantic Understanding. I also question their understanding of the
Kundalini System and the Chakras as expounded by one of their cofounders-
Mr. Leadbeater (spelling?).
Dear Harsha: May I, as a disenchanted theosophist but committed to fairness,
venture to correct some misunderstandings here. You seem to have a very harsh
view of the Theosophical Society which, for all is faults, has arguably been
one of the most important influences on modern Western spirituality and is
considered by many to be the Mother of the New Age. It has helped many
thousands of aspirants over the last 125 years and continues to this day -
admittedly now in a sad state of decline!
Have you read "The Secret Doctrine" by Madame Blavatsky? I think you would
find a great deal of wisdom there, which is consistent with Vedanta and
esoteric Buddhism, although later (2nd Generation) theosophical works do
indeed differ in their understanding - something that has been a matter of hot
dispute within the Theosophical Society for the last 80 years.
Contrary to the impression you give, the TS has no corporate dogma (it's not a
church!), only the various teachings of its leading members from HP Blavatsky
onwards, which TS members are entitled to accept or reject as they wish.
Theosophy is just a search for spiritual truth and this freedom is fundamental
to everything the TS stands for. The Voice of the Silence was the work of HPB,
not the TS. CW Leadbeater was a second-generation theosophist, like Annie
Besant, not a co-founder, and much of his work, which was largely based on
clairvoyance, has since been questioned e.g. his chakral system, as you say:
however, much that he produced is still highly respected both in and out of
the TS (have you read "The Science of the Sacraments"?). Leadbeater is an
enigma, I admit. Annie Besant, not so. She is still highly revered for her
pioneering work in India, both spiritual and political, and in social reform
in Britain. Even Krishnamurti never stopped loving her although he apparently
called Leadbeater "evil"!
The story of the discovery and training of Krishnamurti reads like a
nightmare - all theosophical Apostles and egos! - and I fully sympathise with
Krishnamurti for dumping the TS when he did. But Krishnamurti himself has been
open to much criticism also for his rather anarchic spiritual approach which
damaged as many people as it helped (and particularly since less attractive
details of his personal life emerged after his death).
However, "each to his own" should surely be our motto here. If you resonate
with Krishnamurti, Madame Blavatsky, Sai Baba, Ramana Maharshi et al, then
good for you. If not, leave alone and move on: we can all criticise others,
but perhaps we should focus on their finer points not their limitations?
With blessings,
Alan
P.S. I enjoy most of what you write!
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