1998/01/12 15:33
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #34
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 34
Today's Topics:
earth energy awareness?? [ "danelle t" <danelletATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Our Founder.. [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistres ]
Re: Energies [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Re: Energies [ Barbara Millikan <millikanATnospampnn.com> ]
AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Cen [ Nina Erwin <nmeATnospamcarteret.cc.nc.us> ]
Re: Unidentified subject! [ Barbara Millikan <millikanATnospampnn.com> ]
Re: SEN website/Safe houses [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: Other Paths? [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley ]
Re: Kundalini as incidental (was RE: [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley ]
Re: Energies [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: My kundalini awakened fully unkn [ sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack) ]
Re: My kundalini awakened fully unkn [ David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net> ]
Re:Energies [ Debbie Baldock <mistyATnospamronscomputers ]
Samadhi [ Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com> ]
Sex and "K" [ jacinthaATnospamjuno.com (Danielle R Dumon ]
RE: Kundalini as incidental (was RE: [ TGarland <TGarlandATnospamVIPMail.com> ]
Re: Kundalini as incidental (was RE: [ "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.e ]
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:20:04 PST
From: "danelle t" <danelletATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: earth energy awareness??
Message-ID: <19980112192006.21968.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
I was just wondering if anyone felt on edge or angry for no apparent
reason on Saturday. I found myself and two others who are going through
their awakening process feeling such unexplained rage almost. It passed
through and was gone by Sunday morning, but I called a dear freind of
mine Sat night to ask her about it. She is a very gifted and spiritual
person, and she told me the prana was moving rather chaotically and that
there was most likely going to be a major disaster somewhere. And that
I was picking up on this energy. I was shocked to wake up Sunday and
read about the terrible earthquake in China. I am just wondering if
there are any others out there that experience these major eath shifting
energies on such a personal level? Thanks for the responses in advance.
I could never express the amount of help and comfort this list has and
continues to bring me through this wonderful and sometimes trying
awakening process! THANKYOU ALL!!!
Blessed Be-
danelle
always look within.....thru the clouds of emotion the answers you search
for can be found.
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:51:26
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Our Founder..
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980112125126.358f2c7eATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I was cruising the web, and I cam across the awakening story of the first
founder of the K-list, back when it was a private list being run off his
computer.. reminds me of Dan's awakening..
http://mirrors.spirit.org.za/kundalini/hueland.html
Blessings, Mystress.
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:57:08 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: Debbie Baldock <mistyATnospamronscomputers.com.au>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Energies
Message-ID: <34B9F701.38E6ATnospamintercomm.com>
Debbie Baldock wrote:
>
> Hi all..
> May I ask how do you balance the energies/// so there not so many ups and
> downs...?
>
Debbie, You learn and practice the art of detachment. People have this
mind set that high is good and low is bad, when in fact they are only
reflections of each other. To move out of the ebb and flow of energies,
one becomes the observer and notices what he/she thinks, feels and how
he/she responds to every life situation. In creating this space within,
you become the witness and move with life with your inner eye wide open.
In doing this you access the ability to withdrawn your creation which
manifests as high and lows to learn exactly what cause and effect is.
Cause and effect, action/reaction is what is experienced when the mind
and emotions is given full reign, the ego/self experiences the ride as
continual manifestations of good/bad. This is all illusion.
It is through grace and awareness of God working in your life that you
step back out of the particiation mode and become the witness to it all,
in doing this, you become aware and wake up to who you are and what is
real.
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:47:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Millikan <millikanATnospampnn.com>
To: lodpressATnospamintercomm.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Energies
Message-Id: <199801122047.MAA23392ATnospampnn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:57 AM 1/12/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Debbie Baldock wrote:
>>
>> Hi all..
>> May I ask how do you balance the energies/// so there not so many ups and
>> downs...?
>>
>Debbie, You learn and practice the art of detachment.
<snip of much good advice>
Here are a couple models people gave me recently that helped me see what
Gloria is talking about.
1. Don't take life personally.
2. View what is happening to you and your friends and loved ones as if you
were an anthropologist observing a curious and irrational but endearing
culture on which you will write a seminal paper.
For example, I recently left a long time relationship. Through this fall I
thrashed around in my head, trying to decide if I should stay or go, arguing
and making up and arguing again. Through it all I grieved for all the times
I was lost and abandoned. And then, in the middle of an argument, I
suddenly walked out, and have had no desire or need to do anything more with
this person. I was done.
And I see that all my head mechanations and all that pain allowed me to
bring my grief up out of my cells and let it in and out of my heart, so that
the chakra finally cleared, and then *shazam* all at once I had no
attachment to the person or relationship.
I mean, if you knew me, you would find this unbelieveable: I left without
trying to have the last word.
*I* don't even believe it.
Perhaps when we cling to our pain, we still have need of that process, but
let's hear it for setting it down ASAP!
Blessed Be!
Barbara
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:49:06 -1000 (HST)
From: Nina Erwin <nmeATnospamcarteret.cc.nc.us>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id: <199801122049.KAA08562ATnospamhaleakala.aloha.net>
Since this is the first time on this discussion line, I would like to start out on asking just this one question on Kundalini.
When I had my first recognizable experience with the awakening of Kundalini, I also had numerous experiences with synchronicity (meaningful coincidence). In a book I bought written by Stan Grov "Spiritual Emergencies," it mentions that some people will experience synchronicity and that it has to do with opening in a psyhically. Why is this and what is its significance.
Previous to the awakening, I possibly would have two or three a year. Not very meaningful and mostly very entertaining, but certainly nothing like what has happened since the awakening of Kundalini. For right now, this is my only concern.
Thank you.
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:48:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Millikan <millikanATnospampnn.com>
To: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!
Message-Id: <199801122048.MAA23405ATnospampnn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:06 AM 1/12/98 GMT, you wrote:
> Most of my work is in the lower three chakras.
> Is there some reason I am not understanding as to why I want
>everything ide open now? I mean, other than that it feels wonderful.
>It is my understanding that opening this way will allow me to remain
>functional as my kundalini rises...marginally so, anyway...I haven't
>propositioned a tree for a least three months...
>
>It often has a very strong senual [sexual?] feel in me. Does that
>happen to everyone?
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
>I don't know about anyone else but it's certainly applies to me.
>I too work on the lower three chakras right now. Every three to four
>days, with abstinence, my level of sensual ( read; horniness ) gets to
>a point that even the house plants are in danger. At the same time I
>seem to be able to go into deep meditation almost immediately and for
>a good 60-90 minutes. If I do this, I feel refreshed and much calmer.
>Any manifestations occuring in meditation seem much clearer and my
>understanding of such,more in depth. Then the process begins again.
>
>Before I got the gist of meditating this level of sensuality was
>draining my energy.
>
>Jack
That's it! Thank you Jack!
I found yesterday when I sat in meditation it was amazingly deep and when
the others wanted to quit at an hour, I wanted more. So later I sat again,
and while it didn't remove the sexuality, it integrated it somehow, so it
didn't keep coming out as desire!
My intuition is that this sexuality is planetary connected and I am somehow
supposed to be using it to - something - Gaia. I am not sure what.
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:55:18 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, oriATnospameskimo.com
Subject: Re: SEN website/Safe houses
Message-ID: <19980112205518.2879.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>
>Also-- about the idea of a "safe house"
>That has been the intent for my home that I set forth to the universe--
>as a healing place for those in spiritual transition (including
myself!)
>I have a large home with 2 bedrooms and a bath upstairs which provides
>a good space for someone needing a retreat. Although I've never had
>to advertise except through word-of-mouth, "the universe" has provided
>a steady stream of roomates/guests over the last 2 years who have
stayed
>for varying amounts of time.
>
>I never would have dreamed that placing want ads in the Akashic Record
>could really work. It is like "registering" availability in the
Universal
>newspaper. I'm still learning to trust this part of the process.
>
>Now if only that relationship registration would just take effect ;)
>
>ori
>
> ori
> oriATnospameskimo.com
> http://www.eskimo.com/~ori/ori.html
>
>
WOWEE!!! Such a deal...is it limited to those who can find your address
in the Akashic records?? I would love to come visit you, but I admit
the eskimo part gave me visions of igloos and cold weather..BRRRRRR!!!
This may be keeping your true love from showing up, ori. :)))))Sending
you warm thoughts...Gloria Lee
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:18:16 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
To: Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>
CC: hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu, lodpressATnospamintercomm.com,
heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com,
shalomATnospamcheerful.com
Subject: Re: Other Paths?
Message-ID: <34BA8898.2BC7FFB9ATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
Gene Kieffer wrote:
> Kurt wrote:
> >But as I have said before there are other paths where the direct arousal
> >of the Kundalini is not an antecedent to Realization.
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
>
> I don't quite understand what is meant here by "other paths." Regardless
> of whatever "path" one chooses to follow, or whether one chooses not to
> follow any path, if that person achieves Enlightenment or Self-Realization,
> or Cosmic Consciousness, he or she must have awakened Kundalini.
>
> Gene
Kurt says: I agree with you Gene, you have quoted Harsha and not me. I've
been off a week - sorry if this has already been sorted out.
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:17:06 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
To: hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu
CC: "lodpressATnospamintercomm.com" <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>,
Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>,
"heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com" <heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com>,
"kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
"shalomATnospamcheerful.com" <shalomATnospamcheerful.com>
Subject: Re: Kundalini as incidental (was RE: Genius)
Message-ID: <34BA8852.2D9CE73EATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
> > Harsha says:
> >
> > One thing caught my eye and so I will not resist (The Shakti makes me do
> > it!). Gene said that the Self is a vague destination or a concept. I say
> > it is the clearest and the only destination for the Kundalini Shakti.
> > Further I add that all the transcendental and transformational events
> > associated with the Kundalini Power are incidental and not essential to
> > Self-Realization.
> >
> Kurt responded: So why do you subscribe to a listsever devoted to a
> topic that is `` incidental and not essential to
> > Self-Realization''?
>
> Harsha says:
> Your title (Subject), "Kundalini as Incidental" misrepresents what I
> actually said. My saying that various manifestations of Kundalini Shakti
> and events associated with such manifestations are incidental to
> Realization is not the same as saying that Kundalini Shakti it self is
> incidental to Realization. Perhaps this is a subtle point. On the path
> of Kundalini Yoga, the arousal of Kundalini Shakti and merging it with
> ITs Source leads to Nirvikalpa Samadhi which leads to Self-Realization.
> But as I have said before there are other paths where the direct arousal
> of the Kundalini is not an antecedent to Realization. What is it exactly
> that remains unclear for you?
Kurt says: What's unclear to me is your position regarding the cauality between
kundalini and enlightenment. Since you've received a doctoral minor in research
methodology then I believe your familiar with the notion of essential causal
elements, accidents etc. (actually this goes all the way back to Aristotle). So
my question is: Is arousing kundalini (directly or indirectly) an essential
cause of *kaivalya* nirvikalpa samadhi, in your view, or not?
Harsha continues:
> And if something is not clear to you, is
> that a sufficient criterion to question whether someone should remain
> subscribed to the list or not!
Kurt replies:Hey, I thought we had started to get along. We were becoming
buddy-buddy. You were calling my comments brilliant and all that. How about
remembering your little Christmas jingle?
Anyway, all I was genuinely asking was why you have an interest in a listserver
that is principally devoted to the discussion of ``the experiences various
manifestations of Kundalini Shakti'' while you say ``such manifestations are
incidental to Realization''. I think that's a legitimate question. For
comparison: One time on the newsgroup alt.meditation I got into a dialog with
some pure Advaita Vedantists. These guys could even quote Sanskrit at length
correctly. My final comment was: ``The only philosophical viewpoint that is
less interesting than pure Advaita Vedanta is solipsism. I believe I can emulate
the dialog of a pure adherent of Advaita Vedanta with a computer program.''
(Incidentally, it's not that I think the pure viewpoint of Advaita Vedanta is
fundamentally incorrect. It's just that I think that it is unintersting to
discuss in a newsgroup.) I was quite surprised when their private response was
to ask me to join their listserver. Why have someone who is so completely at
odds with their view posting away every day? A single discussion is
illuminating. Every day is a bit tiresome. So that brings me back to the real
point. I still don't understand your view on kundalini. I have epitomized my
essential question above. I hope that you will take the time to answer it
directly. It is my continuing confidence that you do have something of value to
tell us that motivates me, Harsha dear.
Harsha says:
It is better to reflect within and gain the clarity you seek.Kurt replies:
So maybe this is another one of our frequent differences of opinion. You think
that I'm going to know your intention by my own introspection just as you so
often allude to knowing my intention through your own introspection. I don't
think I'm going to know your intention until I attain omniscience. I think it is
easier to just ask you.
Kind Regards,
Kurt
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:22:46 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: lodpressATnospamintercomm.com, millikanATnospampnn.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Energies
Message-ID: <19980112212247.8349.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>
>At 11:57 AM 1/12/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>Debbie Baldock wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all..
>>> May I ask how do you balance the energies/// so there not so many
ups and
>>> downs...?
>>>
>>Debbie, You learn and practice the art of detachment.
><snip of much good advice>
>
>Here are a couple models people gave me recently that helped me see
what
>Gloria is talking about.
>
>1. Don't take life personally.
>2. View what is happening to you and your friends and loved ones as if
you
>were an anthropologist observing a curious and irrational but endearing
>culture on which you will write a seminal paper.
>Gloria Lee here: Yes, this is exactly what *You* are doing..please post
your paper ASAP!!!
>
>For example, I recently left a long time relationship. Through this
fall I
>thrashed around in my head, trying to decide if I should stay or go,
arguing
>and making up and arguing again. Through it all I grieved for all the
times
>I was lost and abandoned. And then, in the middle of an argument, I
>suddenly walked out, and have had no desire or need to do anything more
with
>this person. I was done.
>
>And I see that all my head mechanations and all that pain allowed me to
>bring my grief up out of my cells and let it in and out of my heart, so
that
>the chakra finally cleared, and then *shazam* all at once I had no
>attachment to the person or relationship.
>I mean, if you knew me, you would find this unbelieveable: I left
without
>trying to have the last word.
>*I* don't even believe it.
>
>Perhaps when we cling to our pain, we still have need of that process,
but
>let's hear it for setting it down ASAP!
>
>Blessed Be!
>Barbara
>
>
This is wonderful stuff, Barbara!! I am all for getting out of our own
personal soap operas. When the movie you are watching is more like a
horror flick, do you tell yourself "Its not real blood, but only
ketchup??" The real challenge is to keep your heart open..even in
Hell..where it is most needed. Blissings to you too.. Gloria Lee
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:35:31 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, nmeATnospamcarteret.cc.nc.us
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-ID: <19980112213532.14506.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Nina Erwin wrote:
>Resent-Sender: kundalini-l-requestATnospamlists.execpc.com
>
>Since this is the first time on this discussion line, I would like to
start out on asking just this one question on Kundalini.
>
>When I had my first recognizable experience with the awakening of
Kundalini, I also had numerous experiences with synchronicity
(meaningful coincidence). In a book I bought written by Stan Grov
"Spiritual Emergencies," it mentions that some people will experience
synchronicity and that it has to do with opening in a psyhically. Why
is this and what is its significance.
>
>Previous to the awakening, I possibly would have two or three a year.
Not very meaningful and mostly very entertaining, but certainly nothing
like what has happened since the awakening of Kundalini. For right now,
this is my only concern.
>
>Thank you.
>
>
With Kundalini awakening.. you are opening to an expanded
awareness..your mind (logical, ego mind) arises from this awareness, but
is much smaller and limited...when you begin to connect with this larger
awareness..you will notice more what is really happening and thus *see*
the synchronicity more. In actuality..it was/is always happening tho,
Nina. Welcome to the present moment!!!
Gloria Lee
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:45:38 GMT
From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: My kundalini awakened fully unknown to me !!
Message-ID: <34c48eff.18655038ATnospammailhost.worldnet.att.net>
Shall we start a new 12-step program for the likes of Harsha, David
Bozzi, and Jack?
Hi,
My name is Jack and I've been Awakened for 3 months now.
Hi Jack !
I take it one day at a time. One Chakra at a time.
Way to go, Jack !
Each morning I wake up I wonder if this will be the day I'll
see the Snake ? But my sponsor ( internal guru ) tells me to
be patient.
Get the picture ?
Jack
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:11:02 -0500
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: My kundalini awakened fully unknown to me !!
Message-ID: <34BA94F6.A35ATnospammail.snet.net>
Jack wrote:
> Hi,
>
> My name is Jack and I've been Awakened for 3 months now.
> Hi Jack !
> I take it one day at a time. One Chakra at a time.
> Way to go, Jack !
> Each morning I wake up I wonder if this will be the day I'll
> see the Snake ? But my sponsor ( internal guru ) tells me to
> be patient.
>
> Get the picture ?
Go back to sleep.
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:08:32 +1100 (EST)
From: Debbie Baldock <mistyATnospamronscomputers.com.au>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re:Energies
Message-Id: <199801122208.JAA14710ATnospamfusion.mel.sprint.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
thankyou all for the great replies I got...
some of you have spoken about detachement...
its very easy for me to detach from situations. sometimes to easy.
except to teach and work I tend to stay home..
I do meditate.
I am trained in using the breath (Rebirther)
so I access this as well... but still find my enrgies all over the place at
times..
my health is not good so am medically checking this out yet again...
as I teach reiki I access this energy as well to help assist me in anyway it
can..
so if you have any more ideas please let me know..
thanks Debbie
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:00:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>
To: keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu
Cc: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com,
shalomATnospamcheerful.com
Subject: Samadhi
Message-Id: <199801122200.RAA24679ATnospamdavinci.netaxis.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Kurt Wrote this (in part) to Harsha:
>Is arousing kundalini (directly or indirectly) an essential cause of
*kaivalya* >nirvikalpa samadhi, in your view, or not?
==========================
Gene Wrote back to Kurt:
Yes, definitely! Yes, emphatically!
Of course, this is only my opinion. I certainly don't want to sound
like an authority, but everything I've read, heard, felt, etc., over the
past thirty years says Yes. I mean, if we don't learn after thirty years,
well . . . . And Kurt, while your at it, why not include Turiya?
All best wishes to all of you,
God bless,
gene
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:09:49 -0500
From: jacinthaATnospamjuno.com (Danielle R Dumont)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Sex and "K"
Message-ID: <19980112.170953.13046.0.jacinthaATnospamjuno.com>
Hello Everyone
I know there is a Kundalini that is more helpful in regards to sexual
questions but I don't feel as though I belong there as of yet, so....
I was wondering if somehow the "K" energy would intentionally place a
person in
a position in their life that required abstinence in order for the "K"
energy to begin
to manifest itself (or perhaps for a purification?) I find myself in
this position. I am married but it seems to be a non-sexual union. As
time goes by my desire decreases and I try and channel any leftover
sexual energy into other things - like
yoga, work. etc.
don't get me wrong - I am a sexual being and I miss the closeness that a
sexual union brings but it just isn't happening here and I am wondering
if its for a divine reason.
Jacintha
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:18:17 -0500
From: TGarland <TGarlandATnospamVIPMail.com>
To: "'Kurt Keutzer'" <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
Cc: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: Kundalini as incidental (was RE: Genius)
Message-ID: <01BD1F7E.3BDB2580ATnospamroc1758lap>
[TGarland] As a Buddhist practitioner who is struggling with a K awakening. I cannot tell you how valuable I find the discussions between Harsha, you, Gloria, Gloria, Susan and the others who join in. I am on the K list for advice on how to deal with symptoms, but I also need the bigger picture, and that is what the theoretical conversations provide.
I get a good feeling knowing that folks on list list have "lived through" K awakening and are now able to focus on what really matters!
Teresa
Kurt says:
Anyway, all I was genuinely asking was why you have an interest in a listserver
that is principally devoted to the discussion of ``the experiences various
manifestations of Kundalini Shakti'' while you say ``such manifestations are
incidental to Realization''. I think that's a legitimate question.
[TGarland]
snip...
So that brings me back to the real
point. I still don't understand your view on kundalini. I have epitomized my
essential question above. I hope that you will take the time to answer it
directly. It is my continuing confidence that you do have something of value to
tell us that motivates me, Harsha dear.
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:19:25 -0500
From: "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
To: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
Cc: hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu,
"lodpressATnospamintercomm.com" <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>,
Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>,
"heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com" <heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com>,
"kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
"shalomATnospamcheerful.com" <shalomATnospamcheerful.com>
Subject: Re: Kundalini as incidental (was RE: Genius)
Message-Id: <34BAA4FD.758BATnospamacad.bryant.edu>
This was so long that I had to snip a lot.
> > Kurt says: What's unclear to me is your position regarding the cauality between
> kundalini and enlightenment. Since you've received a doctoral minor in research
> methodology then I believe your familiar with the notion of essential causal
> elements, accidents etc. (actually this goes all the way back to Aristotle).
Dear Kurt, I have truly missed you. What ever background in education I
have (and it is quite average), it has been evident to me from the very
start that in pure logic and brilliance and insight and information you
have very few peers. That was obvious to me after reading only a few
posts you wrote. And I believe I have said that to you many times as an
honest expression of my respect.
So
> my question is: Is arousing kundalini (directly or indirectly) an essential
> cause of *kaivalya* nirvikalpa samadhi, in your view, or not?
Dear Kurt, I have addressed that issue at some length both in our
personal posts and also on the list. Still you may not have gotten a
clear answer. Think about the following: The very brilliance and high
intelligence that powerfully focuses one's attention and allows one to
disect concepts can also keep one from seeing the whole picture. You ask
me questions which have underlying epistemological and ontological
assumptions which you may not be aware of. If a question is asked within
one paradigm, it is possible that the answer may lie in another. That
does not mean I am not answering your questions. And I will answer them
again. But before I do, there is no harm in thinking about what the
underlying assumptions are and in which view of Reality the questions
are being framed in. If you understand the fundamental nature of your
questions, the answers will make more sense.
> Harsha continues:
>
> > And if something is not clear to you, is
> > that a sufficient criterion to question whether someone should remain
> > subscribed to the list or not!
>
> Kurt replies:Hey, I thought we had started to get along. We were becoming
> buddy-buddy. You were calling my comments brilliant and all that. How about
> remembering your little Christmas jingle?
Harsha writes: Finally Kurt, a little humor from you. I was starting to
wonder. What you said originally irritated me a bit as it made no sense.
But I have always had and continue to have the the most positive regards
for you.
Kurt writes:
>
> Anyway, all I was genuinely asking was why you have an interest in a listserver
> that is principally devoted to the discussion of ``the experiences various
> manifestations of Kundalini Shakti'' snip..
Harsha writes: Is it not obvious from things that I write?
Kurt writes: It is my continuing confidence that you do have something
of value to
> tell us that motivates me, Harsha dear.
Harsha writes: Thank you for the stamp of approval Kurt.
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