1998/01/11 23:24
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #31
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 31
Today's Topics:
Re: Spiritual Emergence [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
RE: K and "Professional" help. [ sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack) ]
Re: Spiritual Emergence [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Re: Spiritual Emergence [ "S. Gregory Gilliam" <spiral-3ATnospamworl ]
Re: Spiritual Emergence [ Louis Conjar <lconjarATnospamerols.com> ]
Re: understanding [ Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net. ]
Mokhs vs.Nirvan [ Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net. ]
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:31:05 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: Louis Conjar <lconjarATnospamerols.com>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Spiritual Emergence
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.980111171908.1688F-100000ATnospamuhunix3>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Louis
Thank you for your letter about your spiritual emergency too, and for the
wonderful wisdom and insight you have had about your painful experience.
I must agree. What I went through was tailor-made for my benefit and my
greatest teaching. As my teacher said "Everything is for the best."
However, I think we are pioneers in this painful experience, and that we
are here to pave the way for the next generation of K-ites so that there
is something to give them and something to offer them.. where there was
NOTHING for us.
Your idea of a "safe house" sounds great. This is what I advocate in my
book and base it on the Japanese Buddhist idea of such a place for persons
whether they have the K. arising or not to go and get healed gently and
without fear of harm to anyone. I am also reading Hand Clow - on the
Midlife Rising of Kundalini...and she says that there are predictable
times in life based on astrology and the return of various planets to our
natal chart where the K. is automatically raised up and people go a little
nuts.
Remember being 15?
Since I am old enough to see these events in my chart I can see that
she has a lot of truth in what she writes. Thus it would appear from her
book that the K. arising is a predictable event in an adult lifetime.. and
can be greatly assisted by knoweldge and knowledgeable people who can
explain it. She says that when men understand their Uranus return (which
will happen in men as yougn as 36 now), they do not have to abandon their
wives and lifestyles to run after 20 year olds.. that they can understand
that there is a switch from the lower chakras (root and Solar) for sexual
power to the heart. That in the transition they may go impotent for a
while and then find a new ability through love to transcend the basal sex
urge and find it in the heart and mind where it becomes a total body
sensually transcendent experience. However it they run off and chase the
skirts, they never make it to the heart opening.. and we all know how
those stories end!ATnospam#
Thanks for the letter.
*****
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 03:37:23 GMT
From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: K and "Professional" help.
Message-ID: <34bf8fec.40251848ATnospammailhost.worldnet.att.net>
When my awakening first manifested in October of last year I had a lot
of tests and saw several psych professionals. No one had an answer.
Now free of medication, my psychopharm and neurologist want me to have
repeat EEG's and CAT scan. They were negative before so my question is
why again so soon ?
My psychopharmachologist questioned my ability to manifest certain
abilities while in deep meditation. i let her hook me up to an alpha
wave reader at the clinic while I meditated. Now she wants an EEG and
CAT scan. : )>
Oh. I also suffered from major clinical depression which disappeared
that October day. Hasn't returned even without meds. : )>
Sometimes I think that the docs have no explanation for something,
keep running tests hoping something will show up or that the first
time the machine was broken or something. When the tests keep coming
up negative they actually get pissed off. It's really funny to see.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a K-clinic ? On call gurus 24 hours a
day,emergency Shakti procedures and continuous care for Awakening ?
Just kidding, lighten up. : )>
what it is,
Jack
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:50:01 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: tg langston <tgxxxATnospamjuno.com>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Spiritual Emergence
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.980111174637.1688H-100000ATnospamuhunix3>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Thanks TG for adding your point here.
Your story is moving and wonderful. Most enriching to hear. This list is
GREAT...
There are not too many places where
one can blast a whole profession! And so far I have only had dismay and
apologies from the professionals in this field... **! I let it all out..
I did.. phew.. it felt good ... now I have to find a list to blast the
OB/GYN's whom I feel let me down equally badly! Haha..
Hope we are all smiling....
Ruth
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:01:49 -0600
From: "S. Gregory Gilliam" <spiral-3ATnospamworldnet.att.net>
To: "Kundalini Mailing List" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Spiritual Emergence
Message-ID: <19980112040441.AAA17254ATnospamrjiredff>
Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>wrote:
This list is
> GREAT...
> There are not too many places where
> one can blast a whole profession! And so far I have only had dismay and
> apologies from the professionals in this field... **! I let it all out..
> I did.. phew.. it felt good ... now I have to find a list to blast the
> OB/GYN's whom I feel let me down equally badly! Haha..
> Hope we are all smiling....
> Ruth
>
I know you all really have no idea what transpired between Ruth and myself this evening, but I
think the entire list owes me one for facilitating Ruth's catharsis tonight. Spirit moves in
mysterious ways. Ruth, you're quite special.
Love,
Spiral
S. Gregory Gilliam, Ph.D.
Licensed Clinical Psychologist
Jungian Psychotherapy and Dreamwork
Phone: (773) 935-1364
Email: spiral-3ATnospamworldnet.att.net
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:59:50 -0500
From: Louis Conjar <lconjarATnospamerols.com>
To: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Spiritual Emergence
Message-ID: <34B99536.7FB1ATnospamerols.com>
Ruth Trimble wrote:
>
> Dear Louis
> snip > I think we are pioneers in this painful experience, and that we
> are here to pave the way for the next generation of K-ites so that there
> is something to give them and something to offer them.. where there was
> NOTHING for us.
I think we are pioneers of a sort. Even though Kundalini awakening is
certainly not new, at this point in space/time (or whatever you wish to
call it), the West certainly was not prepared to deal with it. I have
received information from within that we are preparing the way for
others and that our "purification" will make it easier for them in their
awakening. I hope that's true. It certainly seems as though a lot of the
stuff that has come up was universal in scope.
> Your idea of a "safe house" sounds great. This is what I advocate in my
> book ...
Did I ask you about your book already? I'm very interested in reading
anything written by those who have first-hand experience. In addition to
the obvious benefit of reading the accounts of others, it soothes my ego
to know that I'm not the only one going through this.
> I am also reading Hand Clow - on the
> Midlife Rising of Kundalini...
I'm not familiar with Hand Clow. Is this a book I can find somewhere?
P.S. - This is the first time I've tried snipping. I hope I'm doing it
right. If not, sorry about ruining your post.
>
*****
--
Louis Conjar - Dynamic Expansion Institute, Inc.
"All Your Spiritual and Financial Needs In One Place"
lconjarATnospamerols.com - http://www.deimarket.com
410-385-9500 - fax 410-654-9587
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:41:53 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
To: "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
Cc: kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: understanding
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.980112113023.5410A-100000ATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Harsh K. Luthar wrote:
(This reply includes Anandjyoti' queries, I have not yet learnt the
method of connecting question with answers via attachment so quesries
have been briefly referred to)>
Harsha..Desire to be liberated or to be Shahanshah etc.....
Shahanshah...When a person elects to move towards Nirvana instead of
Moksh, ego is very much present. Like I said ....
Our universe is filled with spirits and sentients. Many of them try to
avoid taking birth in human life as life is generally painful due to
ignorance. But only with human life can they opt for Moksh or Nirvan or
growth, otherwise they are stagnent. No one
wants to be stagnent for long. Some of these spirits opt to enter a
living human by mutual consent (merge).
Every day higher intelligence selects a suitable and ready spirit to enter
my body. This is happening with me. Because I have a desire to be
Bodhisattva, I accept the spirit. I take up its ego and emotions. Everyday
I purify their emotions by suniata med itation and when I am partly empty
I accept next spirit. My acceptance is because of my seed of ego. I cannot
surrender my ego to still higher ego at present because of the strength of
my seed of ego. I have to grow till my ego is dissolved and then will i
opt to merge in other life otherwise i will continue to take births and
grow.
This purifying action results in increase of divine energy(Shakti) in this
body of mine strengthening the bond between Shakti and my ego. Today my
ego is very weak compared to this Shakti. This bond has grown very strong.
.............................................................................
Harsh and Anandjyoti...why only suniata med., this limits the consciousness.
Shahanshah...Consciousness is unlimited. There are innumerable paths
toward self realisation or Moksh. But according to me only Suniata
meditation will lead to Nirvan.
For this it is very necessary that I place before you my concept of Nirvan
vis a vis Moksh.
Moksh is indivitual Nirvan is collective. Moksh needs surrender thro love
or Devotion. Nirvan needs ego, effort, creativity , wisdom. Moksh mostly
but not necessarily happens in a moment and leaves a experience of
ecastacy. Nirvan is slow and growing. Moksh can never convert to Nirvan,
it is end of the road. Nirvan can any time convert into Moksh thro
Adepthood or Bhoddisattva or Buddha. Moksh if slow is continuous bliss.
Nirvan if it grows fast is painful,if slow it is less painful. Moksh is
going back to where from you started. Nirvan is going ahead to become
something. Moksh is inside you. Nirvan is to achieve omniscience,
omnipotence , omnipresence. Moksh is end of evolution for the person.
Nirvan is rotation ahead of wheel of evolution for the person. Moksh can
be bestowed. Nirvan is to be achieved. Moksh is going back to Shiva.
Nirvan is going ahead to Shakti. Moksh is what Harsha is slowly and
blissfully getting from Ramana Maharishi. Nirvan is what Shahanshah is
slowly and surely getting thro pain and samta.
.............................................................................
Anandjyoti...Mind is not everything etc...
Shahanshah...We can discuss this only when I am able to place some concept
of mine as to what is mind, so I shall be enclosing two of my earlier
articles on mind for you from my diary (If any of you are still interested
and are not bored by now), I hope t o locate them in my computer. In case
I cannot locate them , I shall write a better article for you after some
time on the mind.
It is mind in the form of memory that helps in survival from cell to plants.
This memory is the start of etherial bodies.
It is mind that helps the survival of animals to humans of lower type, by
developing cunningness and is the start of astral body or lower ego.This
astral body can survive total earth destruction and can grow on another
planet of our sun.
It is mind that helps the survival of intelligent human life to Devi
Devtas by developing creative intelligence in the form of Causal body.
This Causal body can survive total sun and planets destruction and can
grow on another sun or star.
It is mind of evolved souls (gone to Nirvana) which leaves all
intelligence and controls at Buddhic plane to guide the evolution and it
transceds further to Buddhahood wherefrom it evolves higher to become the
Shakti.
It is the mind that grows the Shakti to become omnipresent , omnipotent
and omniscient. Human mind can be compared to a drop of water while shakti
can be compared to a sea.
Only at the end of Brhma life does mind disappear in void in the form of
hidden(potential) energy to restart with a big bang.
Anandjyoti....How can Kundalini be bad.
Shahanshah... To me kundalini is plain mind energy. By revering or
respecting it as some form of goddess one stagnates in Devachan(heavenly)
plane. By hating this energy one suffers pains of hell. By being AWARE one
evolves to higher life. So it can be ba d , average or good for you as per
your handling. By surrendering it to some God or goddess you go to Moksh.
Anandjyoti...Are you equating thought with karma. Are not motives and
intentions creating consequences for the karmas
Shahanshah...Thoughts create motives and intentions. And our biological
system is such that it records thoughts with the help of kalapas in the
astral body. Karmas are always from the past and they can come into play
only if they are recorded somewhere, i n our case in astral body.
.............................................................................
Anandjyoti...Is self realisation not for those who do not beleive in
godhead. etc..
Nirvan is not for those who beleive in godhead, Nirvan is only for
those who see the truth of the moment (awareness) only which is what I
call suniata meditation.
I refused to beleive in any form of godhead. I followed meditation
only being aware of truth of the moment. In fact Gloria Greco was the one
who was worried about this logic of mine (She has forgotten). I might have
record of this talk somewhere in the c omputer.
I had been going thro a strange experience of this merging of sentients in
my body in sleep in last three years. Every time this happened i will
question my inner voice. Every time I will get the same answer of merging
of souls.Then i read some original p ali literature from the time of
Buddha authored by U.Ba. Khin. This book mentioned some figures as to how
much shakti for Moksh or Nirvan or adept or Master or Boddhisattva etc. is
required. Later I read from Rinpoche (PRESENT GURU OF DALAI LAMA) that Gua
tam Budda went thro this process of purification of sentients. I read
Voice of Silence by Theosophical Society, which mentioned that this path
is only meant for Bodhisattvas via Nirvan to Buddha.
Now i know that my inner voice( you can say present godhead) is guiding me
by the hand like a doting mother, so that her exceptional child grows
towards Buddhahood taking her(mother) to Moksh and then to Nirvan, so that
the same grown up child takes care
of his or her mother when she is old and he is young.
.............................................................................
Harhsa... Beautiful words cause more illusion and make things complex
---Shahanshah.. Yes, But that is the only we can communicate with each
other . Direct experience is only possible by meditation or surrender or
probably by personal contact.
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:50:43 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
To: kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Mokhs vs.Nirvan
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.980111205042.11809DATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
MOKSH VS.NIRVANA
(I have not been successful in fully conveying my opinion, but for the
time being it may do)
All life is climbing up the hill of evolution. If we make a hill
as high as a height of distant star from earth and if human life is as
small as an ant. So each of us human beings is climbing this mountain of
evolution and this mountain is covered with d ense forests. And hence we
cannot climb straigt as the top is invisible and the path is unmarked and
crooked.
In order for us to climb this mountain we require strength. Even
remaining stationary at any point of mountain of evolution requires
strength. And our strength is our ego. We take birth increasing the size
of our ego and then we die. In death we fall b ack to base of the mountain
that we climbed in that life. But by falling we carry the experience of
problems in climbing as well as the knowledge of increasing the size of
our ego in seed form.
In next birth due to this knowledge we are able to climb up a
little higher due to this knowledge and increased strength of our ego.
This climbing of mountain always requires effort and also is cause
of pain. As all of life climbs we devolop fear , jealousy, hatred etc. for
co-travellers if we do not know them.
This made us form groups in the shape of religion or nations or
societies. This made the climbing a little higher due to cooperation of a
group but brought on greater chaos due to waring among groups.
At some stage knowledge that hatred fear etc. among us harms our
progress. So this life starts shedding negative emotions of hate fear etc.
and positive emotions of love cooperation are developed. This makes the
human life climb a little higher.
Search for climbing higher continued in different direction after that.
At some stage of life a seeker after truth comes to know a secret
of transcending of ego . He comes to know that if he changes the basics of
ego he gets greater strength , he can climb higher and faster in each and
every birth before falling down in de ath.
This secret brought out the stages of MOKSH and NIRVANA and the
existence of Gods and Goddesses.
When a group of travellers are climbing up the mountain of
evolution together, some person developed love or devotion towards some
other person. Let us give an example of a married couple. They are very
close together among the group. One of the member of this group say the
wife becomes weak and wants to let go this life. The husband loves her too
much to let her go. His thought ( part of ego) go towards her and sustain
her for onward journey.
One part of this secret is thought (part of ego) transfer. This
understanding is not easy. It is like two travellers in a forest and they
are very hungry. No food is available . one of the travellers offers to
cut his healthiest and strongest part of bod y to quench the hunger so
that both can travel further. This offer of sacrifice has to be genuine.
His existing life has to loose strength to give strength to his partner.
Some of these travellers who were experienced had acquired this
knowledge due to repeated births and increased ego used the simple type
egoes by creating devotion or love in their partners by some skill that
they had acquired. They can create love and d evotion by offering to solve
your immediate problems or to offer you the shining jems and diomonds and
take your healthy ego in exchange.
This created Devi Devtas or gods and goddesses. These smaller gods
may come across some secret siddhis and powers. If you pray for material
wealth , you are ready for exchange. The strength that gods acquire will
allow the god to remain high up in the mo untain for longer times. But
these gods cannot leave this spot of siddhi or power to climb higher
because if they leave this spot of siddhi, they have nothing to exchange
and time will bring them to rebirth. They can only increase the duration
of their st ay. As soon as this exchange stops, they have to come down for
rebirth.
Some of the gods offered the help of these siddhis to the coming
travellers as camp sites. They took ego from one traveller down below
offering him wealth (answers to prayers) getting in exchange the ego. They
will then pass on this ego strength to one t raveller going still higher
up instead of using the ego for self.
Till the height of mountain covered was so much that one reached
Brahma plane. At Brahma plane time dilates so much that a person can
remain upto the life of galaxi parlay (too much time). These Brahmic Gods
came so high because of love and devotion of o thers as well as theirs
(exchange of love and devotion thro various births). So only gods of love
and devotion and maitry evolved to highest level.
When a person reaches Brahma level he is supposed to reach MOKSH.
Moksh is freedom of choice for rebirth in human life. Human life is full
of Dukkha (painful). No normal person will opt for human life.
But it is said that there was on abnormal person in our part of
world. He was abnormal because he was passed on secret of secrets from a
previous Buddha. That secret remained in his seed. He would never remember
this secret either in human life or in lif e after death. And this secret
made him do things differently from others. Till he in his last birth as
Guatam Buddha got enlightment of NIRVANA type and remebered the secret of
secrets (given to him in last era).
Initially Guatam Buddha was reluctant to pass on this secret. The
path was so difficult that no normal person could reach NIRVANA. But it is
said that when all gods , goddess of deva and Brahma plane requested him
for their sake, he rethought. He sat for
seven days seven times (total 49 days) at seven different places nearby without taking food or water contemplating. (Ram calls this Pragya meditation). In this meditation he was interlinked with far far away Universes. He got methods and ideas thro Pragy
a meditation for the answers to purpose and destination of all life and simplified methods to get to NIRVANA.
With time this knowledge was passed on By Him to newly created
Buddhic plane. Many souls have benefitted by this help already. Compassion
as practiced by Christ plays a very important role in this secret of
secrets. Neither Guatam started Buddhic religion nor Christ started
christian religion. They only passed on the TRUTHS as they saw them.
Most of the persons who were in Brahma plane took rebirth by
CHOICE so that they can go over to NIRVANA after BUDDHIC era started.
NIRVANA is merging in Buddha of the era. Each era produces only one Buddha
of one sun. Billions of Buddhas are brought fo rward from different
stars. Evolution system of all stars is not same. As there are millions of
paths for human evolution different for each person, same way all Buddhas
are different from each other and their evolution path have been varried.
It is said that Each Buddha for the Universe is like our human
being for earth and Each Buddha has to evolve higher like we evolve to
Buddhahood.
_________________SECRET OF SECRETS_________________________
Every normal person after taking human birth will carry the
knowledge after death in seed form that human life is Dukkha. He would
avoid or delay human birth and a desire for Moksh will be in him. Each
birth he will strengthen this knowledge and crave fo r Moksha more and
more birth after birth. But Guatam Buddha (due to boon of previous era
Buddha) carried the knowledge that Dukkha is welcome. This Knowledge of
Dukkha was so deep that he was never to be daunted by pains of life. He
would dare to take bir th after birth as fast as possible never to enjoy
Deva planes for longer times. In human life he would practice compassion.
If any co-traveller will be with him. And that person cannot go higher
because of some heavy negative ego, would be Buddha will take away that
bad ego on him, so that the co-traveller goes forward. He would suff er
for this co-traveller because of that bad ego. This may end his climb of
that life even.
But a good thing will be happening with him in two ways. First he
will be gaining wisdom to heal the bad collected ego without much harming
his strength. Second his seed size would grow faster due to repeated
births. Every person was in dukkha in human l ife. There was abundance of
compassion to be practiced. With skillfulness and wisdom he will take the
bad egoes offered to him, suffer and climb higher and higher.
Till he reached very near to top of the mountain but not at the
top. From there due to his concentration, determination and help from gods
in 49 days he could receive the purpose of life and way to it. He was not
Buddha at that time but now nothing stood
in his way of becoming Buddha with time. He utilised the remaining time
of 40 years or so in growing by compassion and to complete his journey to
NIRVANA.
For the first time a living human being (Guatam Buddha) could
grant Moksh to anyone who wanted it. Only those Who had advanced ego and
could receive the knowledge from Buddhic plane (created newly due to
Guatam Bkuddha) would consent by CHOICE to accept Moksh from living
Buddha. they were called ARHANTS. They would merge in Guatam Buddha and
achieve NIRVANA.
After Guatam Buddha many practiced compassion and became
Boddhisattvas and after leaving their knowledge and forces in Buddhic
plane go to Atmic plane. These forces of Buddhic plane will increse this
force of wisdom so much that this knowledge will becom e common with time.
Persons practicing compassion will suffer intense heats and dukkhas and go
to fifth level and persons practicing love and devotion will attain Moksh
in fourth plane. Persons of fifth level will walk on the path of
Boddhisattvas and each will be cause of s alvation to Nirvana for more
than a lakh persons in maximum of seven lives as told by Buddists.
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