1998/01/11 11:55
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #28
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 28
Today's Topics:
Re: Summary in regards to bi-polar [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: Shahanshah [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
RE: Drug Poll [ TGarland <TGarlandATnospamVIPMail.com> ]
Australian members [ Gerard & Jen Chaplin <s327462ATnospamstude ]
Re: Awakening [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
Re: Unidentified subject! [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
Re: Drug Poll [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
pun [ Barbara Millikan <millikanATnospampnn.com> ]
Re: Illusion [ Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net. ]
Cameras [ Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com> ]
shaktipat, obligations, connections [ Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com> ]
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:26:19 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: danjgATnospamengin.umich.edu, lodpressATnospamintercomm.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com
Subject: Re: Summary in regards to bi-polar
Message-ID: <19980111052624.26835.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Resent-Sender: kundalini-l-requestATnospamlists.execpc.com
>
>Dan after reading your story I can understand your confusion and pain.
>However, I do feel that if you keep your focus on trying to find
answers
>inside, you will be better off using the help you can receive at this
>level. Once you are into the medical system in total, you are pretty
>much going to end up staying with that, if you can learn to calm and
>slow the mind down, and not go into what you call the lucid dreaming
>while awake, you may be able to get a handle on what is happening and
>work your way out of it. You do seem to magnify it with your thoughts
>and fears.
>***Gloria LEE here: most bi-polar cycles are also self-limiting.. that
is a manic phase may end soon all by itself.. without any drugs or
treatment..drugs are usually given because of the psychotic or paranoid
aspects of a mania..which frighten the person experiencing them..(and
those around them)..certainly, understanding persons who lessen the
panic of mind racing may assist this process..sometimes the experience
is made worse by the reactions around it.. BUT.. BIG BUT HERE..WHY
suggest more control??? why are you suggesting to Dan that he try to
quiet his mind by himself..??? and by seeking answers inside..??? Even a
mental health professional who has no clue about kundalini could
certainly be useful to Dan to assist him with many issues that he
expressed in his posted story of *My Awakening*..in my humble opinion..
you are overlooking these many other issues which have nothing to do
with Kundalini. ****
>You didn't say specifically if you were having kundalini experiences
>such as light, etc, or just the ongoing mind trips? Most likely
>kundalini is not pure and causing that rambling which seems to be out
of
>control. Have you ever had the experience of quieting yourself? Were
you
>hyperactive as a child, you are probably far above normal in
>intelligence, which may well be kundalini eruptions to part of the
>brain.
>
>I did find your story very interesting and passed it on to a friend
>who's son is bi-polar, <snip>
>your story on because of the intensity that comes through your words
>which I believe will be helpful for her family to get a look into what
>is going on in the mind.
>
>I do recommend anyone trying to understand the chemical imbalance with
>bi-polar to read your story since you have presented an excellent part
>of your experience to help people relate to the process. The thing is
>that if kundalini is responsible, it is consciousness so it could stop
>as quickly as it started. It may be just a crisis time your going
>through. Gloria
Gloria Lee here: You are right..the *symptoms* may stop.. but then a
year or two from now it may happen again..And Dan HAS INDEED done an
exceptional job of coherently expressing and remembering a very
disorienting experience. It is often well-remembered as is any
emotionally intense experience. I still say, Dan would best serve his
own needs and spiritual growth by finding a professional to talk this
through..(and his OTHER issues..like the 2 homosexual incidents) to
integrate this experience and what he regards as his insights from
it...a healthy fear of repeating this mania is to be expected.. but
please do not further the illusion of mind control as a solution.. there
are deep emotional issues and chemical imbalances in the brain..neither
Kundalini or *thought control* will prevent a possible recurrence. I
know from all your other posts that you have much wisdom and a heart of
gold..but please reconsider your advice here to Dan. ok??
______________________
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:03:14 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in, DyngDogmanATnospamaol.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Shahanshah
Message-ID: <19980111060314.473.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
ini-l-requestATnospamlists.execpc.com
>
>Greetings to everyone.
>
>I am relatively new to the list and have for the last week simply been
>watching the messages getting a feel for the group. I hope i have not
>offended anyone by not being social from the beginning. I feel that
you are
>going to be a supportive and helpful group.
>
>On reading Shahansha's message regarding Karmas, i have this question.
How
>does one find out if he has the "deep and dangerous" Karma?
>
>I am glad to make the acquaintance of the group and look forward to a
long and
>productive friendship with the members.
>
>Peace,
>
>Mikey
>
>Gloria Lee here: Pssst..Mikey..no one knows you are here till you
post...what a brave soul you are..I lurked for weeks..and I am sure many
wish I would return to silence..heheh.. you sound so nice.. surely you
must have the *shallow and friendly* karma... or did you see my post
about the karmacially-challenged?? Welcome!!!!
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:50:26 -0500
From: TGarland <TGarlandATnospamVIPMail.com>
To: "'SchrLL'" <SchrLLATnospamaol.com>
Cc: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: Drug Poll
Message-ID: <01BD1E05.196D38A0ATnospamroc1758lap>
>
> I was taking Prozac for panic attacks. The day after the first K
vibrations
> started in my body, I woke up knowing that I didn't need them anymore.
> Teresa
>
ATnospam->->--
Hi Theresa.
You must have prepared you body very well for receiving all this extra energy.
In my case, I needed to get very very physically active to contain it. I
became much more athletic and creative. By channeling this extra energy, what
appeared as panic soon became Bliss. I wrote, painted, swam, played
volleyball, guitar, scuba dived, went back to college and got my BA, finished
raising my three children and then wrote a book.
Love and Light, Linda
[TGarland] [TGarland] Very Impressive! You raise an excellent point. Although I was *seriously* meditating, there was also *serious* changes going on in my life, and the energy eventually broke through. About a month after the K Vibrations began, I started experiencing MAJOR kriya activity.
Unlike you, I did not channel the energy, instead, I let it act itself out and as a result have been purging emotional and experiential garbage from the years out of my system. So, I am still in the pain, but I am dealing with a lot of dark-side issues, and am glad to make my way through that. (It feels good to get rid of it!)
Teresa
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:31:59 +1000
From: Gerard & Jen Chaplin <s327462ATnospamstudent.uq.edu.au>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Australian members
Message-ID: <34B8756F.27EBATnospamstudent.uq.edu.au>
Is there a support group or list of members that you know of in
Australia ; people who have also experienced a kundalini enlightenment
and are putting it to use in their lives and for the service of others.
Please feel fre to forward any similar inquires to us
Many thanks Jen and Gerard Chaplin
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:45:40 -0600
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Awakening
Message-Id: <l03010d02b0de1bc1bc69ATnospam[207.71.51.86]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Daniel James Giszczak <danjgATnospamengin.umich.edu> wrote:
> I have advice. I was "forced" to take pills for awhile....
>.... The most important
>thing in controlling autonomic processes is confidence. If you believe
>you can slow your heart and your breathing, you will succeed. ... If you
>still fail, consult a physician for biofeedback
>equipment or give up and use a medicine, it can't hurt that much can it?
>If you really really can't do anything else to solve your problem,
>alternate between reading this email message and the side-effects on the
>bottles of medication that you are taking until you no longer care what
>they say. At this point, you will probably be bored enough that your
>heart rate is low. Sweet dreams.
Wonderful advice, Dan! I can see that one result of your present problems
will be that you'll be able to help many other people because of your own
experience.
I'm sorry I've been so busy this week that I didn't see your letters. But
tonight I've read through the whole thread, including your story called "My
Awakening."
It was really heart-wrenching to read of how alone you felt in the
hospitals and of the fear you and your family still have of a recurrence.
I think your problem was brought on by your rigorous practice of yogic
methods at a young age and without a teacher. You pushed way too hard
without realizing it could be dangerous, and sometimes you misunderstood.
Lucid dreaming is not what you were doing - it's being aware that you're
dreaming and becoming more and more conscious in the dream state. I think
you'll be all right if you give up all such practices now and allow your
body and brain to rest and recover.
Of course, I don't know what predisposition there may have been, whether
you had any similar experiences when you were younger.
> Since a young age, I have been able to speed the heart, I believe,
>through the volitional release of adrenaline. I have been able to
>sustain it at 170 for long enough to take a pulse in Meijers. I have
>somewhat less control in slowing the heart. While in the hospital, when
>in a humorous mood, I slowed it to 47. The hospital stopped taking my
>pulse.
This sounds to me like memories (just under the surface) from another life.
If you were a hatha yogi in another life and learned to control your heart,
that would explain how you were able to do this at a young age. Perhaps
you had real problems in that life due to not having such good control over
slowing the heart - that would explain some of your fears re. your heart
and perhaps why you feel such a need for control.
If the bipolar depression (or manic depression) does start to come back,
there is good treatment. Most people can control this with lithium or with
another element (forget the name) which is similar and is used for people
who lean more to the manic side. Lots of manic/depressive people are
leading good and useful lives with the aid of these medications (which are
simple elements and therefore cheap). Patty Duke, for instance, wrote a
book about her experiences. She once woke up after a very manicy night and
found herself married to a stranger! But with lithium she has been fine.
A young man I know - I'll call him Pete - had a breakdown in his late
teens. The psychiatrist diagnosed the problem as bipolar depression with
psychotic episodes. She said she had committed people who weren't as sick
as he was, but she didn't commit him because she was certain that he would
never commit suicide. She put him on drugs, including an anti-psychotic, I
think.
The problem was triggered, the doctor said, by Pete's problems with his
father after a divorce. But Pete's mother had taken speed during her
pregnancy - in those days it was prescribed as medicine. The doctor
thought that might have been the first cause of his problem. As a toddler
he named his teddy bear "Drastic," and he was always a drastic person - if
he was unhappy it was tragic, and if he was happy, it was a joy to be near
him. Was this related to his problem? Who knows? People are so different
- I'm glad there are people like him in the world.
What the psychiatrist didn't know was that he had been with an older crowd
of people who had studied huna and such disciplines. They would engage in
psychic/spiritual pursuits and "trips" as a kind of play, without thinking
that a younger person might be unprepared for it. When he broke down, he
was "channeling" messages and drinking to help him do it - the messages
seemed pretty clearly to come from parts of himself.
Pete dropped these practices and tried to live a normal life. There were
some ups and downs, and sometimes the medicines were changed. After almost
three years, the doctor tried lithium but gave up on it after two months
(from my reading I think that wasn't long enough). She then changed her
diagnosis, saying that it must not be bipolar depression.
At that time Pete proclaimed that he was sick and tired of taking medicine
and he wasn't going to take any more. He quit the medicine, and he's been
fine ever since. Did the lithium work? Who knows? He's now 35 and has
had no recurrence, although he's still a drastic person. Now his
psychic/spiritual side is back again, but he's not pushing it.
The son of Kurt Vonnegut (science fiction writer) was hospitalized for
three years with schizophrenia and later wrote a book about his
experiences. He said that as far as he could see, many patients got well
after two or three years, whether they were on medication or not. So he
thought that the purpose of medication was to maintain them until they got
well. He said what people need in those circumstances is care - a place to
live, food, medicine if they need it, etc. - for a few years until they're
well.
You're fortunate to have your parents, even though I know their fears make
you uncomfortable. I can see why you'd rather not live there. The idea
about the commune sounds interesting, but it's awfully far from your
parents, isn't it? And I think wherever you go, for a while you need
someone with you who knows about what happened and can provide a "reality
check."
And you do need to stay away from yogic practices and all such things.
It's not just because you "went off." It's also because you've probably
sustained damage in the physical body, including the brain, and you need
rest and time to recuperate. Just recently a friend of mine got into
"spiritual development" with marked kundalini symptoms and really overdid
it - wouldn't listen to anybody. Eventually she got far enough away from
"reality" that she had to be committed to protect her and her child. A
mutual friend who is a Jin Shin Jyutsu therapist (works with centers and
sees their operation) said she would need to stay away from all such
pursuits and people involved in them "for a LONG time."
Try to just relax and lead an ordinary life for a while. Learn to enjoy
other things besides mental pursuits. Lie in the grass, smell the roses,
sing and dance, get close to animals and plants. And learn to laugh!
Bring funny books home from the library, watch funny videos. Did you ever
hear someone spontaneously give a big belly laugh? When you can do that,
easily and spontaneously, I'll bet your problems will be in the past.
And I hope you'll discover that all that tight mental control isn't
necessary. You thought you were following a yogic path, and you worked
hard at it, but that isn't the way it's done! When you play with animals
and watch funny videos and one day find yourself living more spontaneously
and not watching your mind all the time, you'll be better off.
And some day - years away - when you want to get into the spiritual path
again, look for a good teacher. Some ways of meditation are meant to lead
to the overt kundalini process, and others are not. So decide which way
you want, and find out what the teacher teaches, before you commit yourself.
This list is good for you, because the people here are understanding and
sympathetic - there's a lot of love here! But as you spend more time with
other friends and make a new life, it would probably be better to give up
the list - at least for a while - along with other yogic pursuits.
I'll be thinking of you.
Love,
Ann
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:02:15 -0600
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!
Message-Id: <l03010d00b0de478805e3ATnospam[207.71.50.113]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Barbara Millikan <millikanATnospampnn.com> wrote:
>I am a 50 year old Oregon massage therapist who continues to expand the
>amount of kundalini energy I run. I have been running it in fits and starts
>for years. I am finally learning to trust myself and energy enough to allow
>it to run.
>
Welcome!
My Jin Shin Jyutsu therapist told me, "You can't GET too much kundalini if
your centers are open." I go to her periodically because she's able to
check out my centers and body in general. Sounds like you're old enough
and experienced enough - do you know someone who can check out the centers?
>It often has a very strong senual [sexual?] feel in me. Does that happen
>to everyone?
I'm told not, but it does to me!
>This last week I felt myself finally step through a
>lifelong set of insecurities into a place where I absolutely love myself,
>and will not sacrifice me to others needs/desires.
A friend of mine says the "Silver Rule" is: Do not allow others to do to
you what you would not do to them."
Ann
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:05:28 -0600
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Drug Poll
Message-Id: <l03010d01b0de496d77c5ATnospam[207.71.50.113]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Linda <SchrLLATnospamaol.com> wrote:
Would
you believe I have been working on a binary body language to communicate with
Spirit?
Too Much Fun!
I want to hear about this! If your answer is too long for the list, you
can send it to me.
Ann
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:10:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Millikan <millikanATnospampnn.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: pun
Message-Id: <199801111210.EAA17914ATnospampnn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Oh, David, Duh.
Of course I intended to say asshole as in agravating jerk. Sort of like God's
Clowns, only worse. I thought of that as the first meaning.
Barbara
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:49:23 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
To: "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
Cc: kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Illusion
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.980111204518.11809C-100000ATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Harsh K. Luthar wrote:
> Dear Peswani,
> The desire to be this and that (Shahanashah or something else and shout
> it to the world) itself is the root of illusion. In whatever way and by
> whatever meditation method one can still the mind that is good. Even
> the desire for liberation ultimately becomes a hinderance as it is only
> a concept. Words may be eloquent, concepts may be beautiful, abstract
> and complex, but what is the use of holding on to them. They only
> prolong the delusion. We want to be this and we want to be that, but
> giving up this and that we realize We ARE. No need to make it more
> complex.
>
> Harsha
>
>
Shahanshah...When a person elects to move towards Nirvana instead of
Moksh, ego is very much present. Like I said ....
Our universe is filled with spirits and sentients. Many of them try to
avoid taking birth in human life as life is generally painful due to
ignorance. But only with human life can they opt for Moksh or Nirvan or
growth, otherwise they are stagnent. No one
wants to be stagnent for long. Some of these spirits opt to enter a
living human by mutual consent (merge).
Every day higher intelligence selects a suitable and ready spirit to enter
my body. This is happening with me. Because I have a desire to be
Bodhisattva, I accept the spirit. I take up its ego and emotions. Everyday
I purify their emotions by suniata med itation and when I am partly empty
I accept next spirit. My acceptance is because of my seed of ego. I cannot
surrender my ego to still higher ego at present because of the strength of
my seed of ego. I have to grow till my ego is dissolved and then will i
opt to merge in other life otherwise i will continue to take births and
grow.
This purifying action results in increase of divine energy(Shakti) in this
body of mine strengthening the bond between Shakti and my ego. Today my
ego is very weak compared to this Shakti. This bond has grown very strong.
Harhsa... Beautiful words cause more illusion and make things complex
Shahanshah.. But that is the only we can communicate with each other .
Direct experience is only possible by meditation or surrender or probably
by personal contact.
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:57:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>
To: annfisherATnospammail.stic.net
Cc: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Cameras
Message-Id: <199801111657.LAA19207ATnospamdavinci.netaxis.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Ann,
Thanks very much for that highly relevant quotation from Swami Muktananda's
autobiography, regarding Urdhvaretas. I'm very glad to see that you posted it
to both the K-lists. Of course, Swami Muktananda would, of necessity, mentioned
it prominently in his autobiography, because that is exactly what Kundalini is
all about.
And that is why I have made such a big deal out of it. Without Urdhvaretas,
there can be no Enlightenment, Cosmic Consciousness, Illumination, etc.
Now, it is very true that many K-people have awakened Kundalini and do not
feel the upward flow of the seminal essence. That's okay. Nobody should be
anxious about anything. Whether one becomes Enlightened or not, the important
thing is that he/she become transformed in personality and ideals.
When one finds that he/she has become more interested in God, in serving
humanity, in being kind, compassionate, loving and honest, that is the first
sign of a genuine awakening. It does not matter whether he/she feels the
upward flow, or anything else. The only thing that matters is that one changes
from an ego-centric person to one who feels strongly about the welfare of
others. Then the whole world becomes his/her concern, and the mind loses
its attachment to personal problems and becomes engaged in doing the Will of
the Creator.
As for using cameras to record Urdhvaretas, that's not a bad idea at all.
There would certainly be some extremely interesting (to say the least) phenomena
to record. That's what will set the scientific world on its ear!
But I must hasten to add that it does not require shaktipat to bring about
Urdhvaretas. It can very well occur to anyone whether he/she has or has not
received shaktipat. The transmission of shaktipat (which I received long, long
ago) is not a requirement at all.
I've mentioned this a dozen times: If one were to count up all the Americans
who have received shaktipat since 1070, the number might exceed half a million.
Add to this the number of people who have been practicing Kundalini Yoga as
taught by Yogi Bhajan; and then add up all those who have been seriously
practicing various forms of Yoga, whether Hatha, Jnana, Karma,etc. and the
total number might be well over two million over the past three decades.
Out of those three million, how many would you say have achieved
Enlightenment?
How many would you say are self-deluded?
Nobody has yet come up with an response to my question of a week ago,
which is this: "How can one determine whether he/she is self-deluded or
has actually experienced a genuine awakening?"
Thanks again for that quotation from Swami Muktananda. It's great!
Sincerely,
gene
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:47:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: shaktipat, obligations, connections
Message-Id: <199801111847.KAA22818ATnospampnn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Good morning list. I have some questions to lay before all of you. What are
the implications of receiving shaktipat from someone? What obligations are
accepted by the person receiving shaktipat? Do they differ according to what
the giver and the receiver expect?
It seems like there might be a difference between the ripple effect of
shaktipat received when I read the Mystress's grounding meditation, or when
my 'loose cannon' friend touched my forehead during meditation and I was
almost knocked off the chair, and a more formal initiation of the sort
offered by some Hindu traditions. I am pulled toward accepting such an
initiation, but not if it means giving up where I walk in order to walk
where someone else feels it is appropriate. I don't hear anyone involved
saying this will happen, but I will then be connected to a particular
lineage, and I don't know what all that means.
With the energy gifts from the Mystress, it means that I can reach out and
say 'hello' to her spirit and feel the connection made. With the energy gift
from my friend, it means that I have to stay very grounded and guarded when
I am near him, or all sorts of out of whack things occur, with no sense of
of it being safe.
I hope I've stated this clearly enough.
Thank you for your input.
blessings and questions,
Blythe
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