1998/01/10 00:27
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #25
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 25
Today's Topics:
Re: Faith/Religion [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistres ]
Re: KL: EGO [ David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net> ]
Re: Radiant Being [ David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net> ]
Re: Re. Summary [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Re: Meditation? [ David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net> ]
Slaves & the Divine [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
Re: HRTZEN: Verification [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
Re: HRTZEN: Verification [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
RE: Meditation? [ =?iso-8859-1?Q?Galv=E1n_Jim=E9nez_M ]
Scientific Wonders/Ruth/Jack [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: Shahanshah [ Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant ]
Re: Shahanshah [ DyngDogman <DyngDogmanATnospamaol.com> ]
Kundalini, Lucid Dreaming, OBE Artic [ Tom Hinshaw <tomATnospamdwxmail.com> ]
RE: Quick Question - " Rakim " [ sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack) ]
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 12:37:19
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>
Cc: AthenaATnospamreninet.com, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com,
hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu, anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com, NancyATnospamwtp.net
Subject: Re: Faith/Religion
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980109123719.4b271ba8ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:50 05/01/98 -0500, Gene Kieffer wrote:
>
>Dear Wilathi,<...>
> If we truly want to be fair-minded about this, then
>we must not exclude the "unawakened" from gathering the knowledge of
>Kundalini. Kundalini should be accessible to ALL. So, who's got a
>good name for our NEW RELIGION?
>
>Sincerely,
>gene
>
>
Oy.
These reminds me of my pagan friend telling me about trying to apply for
legal church status for his group. The questions had not been made to fit
his answers..
What God do you serve?"
Uh, any and all of them, depends on the choice of the individual.
Ultimately, we serve the God and Goddess within. Ourselves and each other.
What do you preach?
We don't preach, we think that everyone knows what is best for
themselves. After all, we are Gods.
Where is your temple?
We don't have one, we worship in Nature.
How do you convert new members?
We don't try to convert anyone, each path is right for the person who is
on it.
What is your bible or holy text?
Well, there isn't one, for the same reason. We each have our own favorites.
How do you worship, what is required of church membership?
WE believe that spiritual truths are universal, and no-one owns them, so
we don't believe in charging anything.. we worship by showing gratitude for
the gift of life, by enjoying it: so our rituals are feasting, music, art
and dancing to celebrate the joy of being alive, as we believe some
cultures did in ancient times.
You get the idea.. likewise, Kundalini is not a religion, and can never
be considered one, because the definitions of religion do not fit the
individual paths of Kundalini.
IMHO, anyone trying to tell you otherwise is selling "Snake oil".
Just my opinion.. like assholes, everybody's got one, and it is mostly
used to release shit.
Gene, when I was corresponding privately with you back in October, after
suggesting to you that the gathering of awakened folks that is the K-list
might be a useful online database group for researching K. .. I told you,
that your proposed research plan seemed so unrealistic, it frankly made me
wonder if you are nuts.
I know that that hurt your feelings, and I apologise.. perhaps that is
why you have not shared your plans with the list?
The explanation you sent helped not at all, to alter my opinion, and I
discontinued the correspondence, coz when I said nuts I was being kind.. my
actual thought was "con artist". That thought was distressing, as I do not
like to think badly of people. Especially someone who is in charge of an
organization I had always thought well of. I knew that the result of any
further correspondence on my part would be only more unkindness, I
stopped... but now you are a K.list member, so I am back wondering about
you again. Seems better for me to ask, than keep wondering.
Skimming thru the digests when I had time, last month, served to clarify
my perspective but not to really change it too much. You talk ion circles.
Thankyou for your generous gift of books: they are welcome additions to
my K.library. Perusal of them, tho, served only to reaffirm my previously
stated opinion of Gopi Krishna: that his own difficult awakening makes most
of his writing rather too alarmist to be the best source of information on
handling K. for the newly awakened. Not to detract from his Grace in any
way, indeed an enlightened being: but there have been many of those, and
each seeker finds the teacher they need.
We have nothing to fear but fear itself: I associate those who peddle
fear-visions with insurance salesman. My limiting predjudice, I know.. but
making Kundalini seem like insurance agaist Armageddon, would indeed make
it more like a religion. Rather at odds, tho, with your proposed goal of
proving K. to science?
Thankyou for persuading me you are not a con artist. A con artist would
make a lot more sense than you do, I figger.
Blessings, Mystress.
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 16:02:12 -0500
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: KL: EGO
Message-ID: <34B69054.496AATnospammail.snet.net>
John Living wrote:
> I have been concerned for some time over the expressed need to 'get rid of
> the ego' since it seemed to me that people devoid of ego would have little
> call to do anything - they would just sit around saying "what a good person
> I am", instead of making the effort to do good - as typified by gurus
> sitting on mountain tops squatting or in caves.
If that guru is aware of Love in his/her heart surely good is being
done.
This has far reaching effects, so far as to be limitless.
> I hope that this will be of help to those of you who have been wrestling
> with the same problem - and perhaps encourage those who sit back to start
> getting out to do good in the world !
Sometimes we are called to go within.
If you feel called to externalize what you feel, great!
I have noticed that often there is a going within phase interpolated
with externalizing.
Inevitably one realizes that inner and outer are not so far apart.
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 16:17:09 -0500
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Radiant Being
Message-ID: <34B693D5.B5FATnospammail.snet.net>
acarre wrote:
> There is a very thin line between enlightenment
> and psychosis.
This is good news to the "psychotic".
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 13:16:24 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: lconjarATnospamerols.com
CC: Daniel James Giszczak <danjgATnospamengin.umich.edu>, Afperry <AfperryATnospamaol.com>,
Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Re. Summary
Message-ID: <34B61512.61F2ATnospamintercomm.com>
Louis Conjar wrote:
List members, read Dan's story and I think you will understand where he
is coming from. He is really living through a nightmare, let's work
together to remove the static energy and give him the love he needs and
deserves. He went to great lengths to share his story that is on one of
his posts, before answering him...read the story. Gloria
Dan, my heart goes out to you, I will write more to you later. Gloria
>
> Daniel James Giszczak wrote:
> >
> > > Dan, that has to be the saddest statement I have heard from anybody for a very
> > > long time, whether referring to kundalini or anything else. Living is learning
> > > and loving. How can you ever stop learning unless you deliberately block
> > > yourself off?
> > > Open your mind, Dan, then your heart will follow!
> >
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 17:28:54 -0500
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Meditation?
Message-ID: <34B6A4A6.1A39ATnospammail.snet.net>
ori wrote:
> If list members are so inclined, perhaps some various meditation techniques
> could be shared here on the list.
Watch Everything.
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:37:43 -0600
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Slaves & the Divine
Message-Id: <l03010d00b0dc24302bd5ATnospam[207.71.50.193]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com> wrote:
>> Is it low self-esteem? ...
> Not really.. I've met some pretty proud and confident slaves. I have met
>some low self esteem ones, but usually it was because ...or because they
>were not fulfilled as
>slaves, coz they had not been claimed and collared.. similar to the effects
>of unemployment on self-esteem.
> Folks like to take pride in what they do: a slave wants to be a good
>slave....
>....How does it fit with
>>our knowledge of ourselves as divine?
> (Giggle) Most every path suggests that knowledge of the self as Divine,
>comes of a path of service and humility.
> Slaves will tell you, that it is when they are feeling most humbled, most
>selflessly in service, that is when they feel the most free.. it is
>trancendent. Thru learning to worship and serve the Divine within another
>human, they are brought nearer to the truth of Self. That is their path,
>whether they are aware of the sacredness of sexualty, or not.. the impulse
>to serve comes direct from Goddess, it's expressions are manifold.
>
>>What gratification is achieved?
> ... It is said in scriptures, that service is it's own reward. The pleasure
>of serving another, and seeing their happiness and gratitude.. for these
>folks, the pleasure of service and humiliation is also erotic....
>
> Yup.. the movers and shakers are often sexually submissive.. making
>decisions is probably the hardest work we do: not having to make any
>decisions, even for themselves, in one safe space with someone they trust,
>is a huge vacation that gives them balance.
> It is Archtypal, mythic.. the Prince and the Pauper.. the young King
>spends time completely humbled, to make him wiser. To be a good leader, it
>is helpful to remember how painful bad leadership can feel, and how
>trancendent good leadership can feel....
>
>"Movers and shakers", often get to that place of success by following
>intuition. They are successful beacuse they are not getting brought down
>with unfulfilled needs.. they are listening to the demands of the inner
>self, in their choice to experience submission.
> .... it is the tao of leadership: Leaders serve the needs of the people
>they lead. It's a service loop, not a clear hierachy of benefit.
>....the ecstatic potency of holy prescence you will
>feel, in response to your body/mind/spirit offering of adoration and
>worship, cannot be described....
> You cannot get a starving man to speak of anything but food.. give him
>what he needs, and then he has freedom and energy to apply to other things.
>Likewise, a successful slave personality recognizes their needs and gets
>them met in a safe and supportive place, so there is energy freed up for
>other things.. a repressed slave is denying the self, and they will find
>their slavery manifesting anyways, with the energy of the negativity
>attendant: slave-wage jobs, the humiliations of failure and the prisons of
>unfulfilling relationships.
There's deep wisdom in your words. I printed out your two letters on the
subject and gave them to my health/healing teacher, because she counsels
many people. These things are not easy to understand, no one speaks about
them - maybe few understand them.
I lean toward the masochistic side myself. When I went into the
unconscious, I found, among others, an Oriental Bride holding her wedding
gift from her husband - a large golden spoon that had no inscription. I
suspect this part of me comes from another life when I was a slave (well, I
lived in a harem) and loved my lord.
My Oriental Bride has never found fulfillment in this life, except for a
few fleeting moments. But when I read your words, I began to understand
that she is being fulfilled in Shakti. I asked Shakti, who said she/he
knew that all along and that I should be relaxed about it and allow the
Oriental Bride to find her fulfillment, that I will be stronger for it.
It's only been a few days, but already I have new energy and I'm getting so
much done! One example: in August I took the training to teach workshops
on finding and clearing limiting decisions (scripting) from the
body/subconscious, which frees people to create the lives they want. But
for one reason and another, I've been putting off teaching my first
workshop. Now I'm rarin' to go, and I'll be teaching soon!
I would never have understood the connection between these things except
for your words.
Thank you,
Ann
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:41:14 -0600
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Cc: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: Verification
Message-Id: <l03010d00b0dc4c9023abATnospam[207.71.50.193]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com> wrote:
> Ideally, we would want to have from one hundred to two hundred
>candidates who would dedicate themselves to awakening Kundalini on a
>full time basis, something like an ashram, but not an ashram. They
>would be under the guidance of experienced gurus and knowledgeable
>and SYPATHETIC scientists who have either awakened Kundalini themselves
>(you some scientists are just like us!) or would be attempting to do
>so. The goal would be to have one, two or three of the candidates
>awaken Kundalini spontaneously, at which time they would be monitored
>very carefully.
If you HAVE THEM AWAKEN KUNDALINI, that would NOT be spontaneous. Now if a
cook in the kitchen were to suddenly start performing kriyas, or if you
find a gardener standing on his head roaring like a tiger, THAT would be
spontaneous!!
Ann
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:40:45 -0600
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>
Cc: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: Verification
Message-Id: <l03010d01b0dc521c7166ATnospam[207.71.50.193]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com> wrote:
> You see, Viviane, these scientists would know all the available
>facts about Urdhava-retas.
In the interest of science I am providing these facts from Muktananda's
autobiography.
"...this prana ... pervades the individual body in five forms....
"5. Udana is that which carries upward. Udana is a great friend of the
sadhaka; through its force, a yogi maintains his celibacy, draws his sexual
fluid upward, and becomes an urdhvareta. The sexual fluid mingles with
prana and turns into prana, and from its strength, the yogi can acquire
complete victory over even a celestial dancer. The source of the power to
give Shaktipat is this urdhvaretas, the rising of the sexual fluid....
"Now I understood that the onset of sexual desire was connected with the
process of becoming an urdhvareta, from which one gets the power to give
Shaktipat. When the svadhishthana chakra is pierced, sexual desire becomes
very strong, but this happens so that the flow of sexual fluid may be
turned upward and the sadhaka's lust destroyed forever....
"When I asked him about my trouble with lust, he answered, 'Only with rare
aspirants does the generative organ erect itself and dig into the navel.
It is due to the extraordinary divine grace of yoga.... When it digs into
the navel and remains there for a length of time, all the seminal fluid in
the testicles starts to flow upward toward the heart. It is heated in the
gastric fire and passes right up to the brain, where it strengthens the
sensory nerves. By its strength, the yogi's memory and intelligence are
increased..' Then he went on, 'O Swami, such a man is called an
urdhvareta. You will become a Guru in the future and will be able to bless
others through this power. As a result of the process called vajroli,
which has happened to you, you will be able to store up the inner Shakti
and give the Shaktipat initiation."
Assuming that cameras are always at the ready, this phenomenon, should it
happen to a candidate in the laboratory, will not be difficult to
substantiate.
If you want to make certain that kundalini will awaken in your candidates,
obviously you will need one yogi or yogini who gives Shaktipat.
Ann
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:40:07 -0600
From: Galván Jiménez Marco Antonio
<GALVANMATnospamtelmex.net>
To: david.bozziATnospamsnet.net, Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: Meditation?
Message-Id: <199801092312.RAA06368ATnospama.mx.execpc.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD1D2A.BA693190"
Who is the seer? Who is the one who waches?, That´s the
clue
-----Mensaje original-----
De: David Bozzi
[SMTP:david.bozziATnospamsnet.net]
Enviado el: Viernes 9 de Enero de 1998 4:29
PM
Para: Kundalini
Asunto: Re: Meditation?
ori wrote:
> If list members are so inclined, perhaps some
various meditation techniques
> could be shared here on the list.
Watch Everything.
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kundal82"
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 18:21:14 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Scientific Wonders/Ruth/Jack
Message-ID: <19980110022115.564.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Ruth Trimble wrote:
>Sometime in my childhood I had a very traumatising experience that
>could have meant I would be abandoned or killed, and left without
>support. So I stuffed the memory of it and went on with my life. The
>memory of the past trauma came up into my mind and I refused to accept
>it. So I pushed it away.=20
>
>Well for 30 years this event which had taken a part of me.. like
>some of my soul... had been out forlorn, abandoned, lost and miserable
>far away from my conscious mind in darkness.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------Jack
writes:--=
>-------------------------------------------
>This strikes a deep nerve in me, Ruth. The empathic emotions I
>received from my twin are similar. A childhood trauma at 7 years old,
>betrayal and fear. She has locked her true heart away so deeply that
>she can't find it. Now, after 33 years of failed relationships she has
>reconciled herself to never finding the unconditional love she so
>desperately wants. Recently she has realized that some of her failures
>are her own doing, she plans her own failure, and when it happens
>tells herself, " I told you so." Her inability to love unconditionaly
>is sensed by those that love her. Unable to break through, to unlock
>her heart so to speak, they give up. She see's it as betrayal, expects
>it really.
>
>Gloria Lee writes:
You have both expressed so well this truism..whatever you push away and
deny..will, in fact run your life..tho from underground, subconsciously.
What appears to be her "planning her own failure" is just a re-enactment
of her original soul betrayal.. the wound she received in childhood. I
dunno how easily you can communicate this to your twin, Jack. Perhaps
giving her a book such as "Healing the Child Within"..several good ones
out there.. just to open her eyes to this need. What goes on now in her
life is like a hologram of the original
"piece" from her childhood. She lost the address to her heart back
there..soul retreival work is one way to go back and find it. Pray, and
give her books, and talk to her about yourself and what you have
learned...she may "hear" and resonate with your own experiences.
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 23:23:19 -0800
From: Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu>
To: Kirk Anderson <d242kaosATnospamgte.net>
Cc: "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>,
anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>,
Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com,
kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Shahanshah
Message-Id: <34B721E7.3A31ATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu>
Kirk Anderson wrote:
>
> The Magnanimous Harshster wrote:
> See you Later-Alligator. I guess:-).
> The compassionate but extremely funny Harsha.
>
> The Polite and Very Emotionally Supportive Kirk writes:
> I am being very very gracious in commenting to Harsha that he was, and is
> indeed, a very very humorous Manifestation. A Manifestation of What, we are
> not so sure....
>
> Our common elegance of expression enraptures me!
>
Harsha writes: Glad you enjoyed the post Kirk. I received many e-mails
from people claiming to be rolling with laughter on the floor. It is
reassuring that we are not mirth-deficient. Since you are starting out
and now becoming more serious in exploring the nature of spirituality, I
would suggest reading books describing conversations with the Great Sage
of Arunachala, Ramana Maharshi. Others who wish to learn meditation may
enjoy experimenting with the simple but unique method advocated by the
Master of Masters. Paul Brunton's Book written in 1935, "A Search in
Secret India" describes his meeting with Ramana and in general is a
fascinating account. I get my sense of humor and everything else from
the Sage of Arunachala. I have had other teachers whom I adored, whose
feet I touched with my forhead in the traditional Indian manner, who
were affectionate to me like older brothers or Fathers and who blessed
me in abundance. But my Heart connection is with Ramana. Even on someone
mentioning his name or reading a story about him, my body hair stand on
end, my eyes fill up, and I literally hear the divine rumble in my ears.
He is the Sage who guided me in my youth and finally showed me how the
Kundalini Shakti reveals the True nature of Reality and reaches its
final destination, where all doubts and thoughts come to an end. It was
He who with a single glance could make a person enter Samadhi. From Him
I get my sense of humor. It feels like I have been sitting at his feet
for an eternity.
Harsha
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:34:27 EST
From: DyngDogman <DyngDogmanATnospamaol.com>
To: peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Shahanshah
Message-ID: <e81fec88.34b70863ATnospamaol.com>
Greetings to everyone.
I am relatively new to the list and have for the last week simply been
watching the messages getting a feel for the group. I hope i have not
offended anyone by not being social from the beginning. I feel that you are
going to be a supportive and helpful group.
On reading Shahansha's message regarding Karmas, i have this question. How
does one find out if he has the "deep and dangerous" Karma?
I am glad to make the acquaintance of the group and look forward to a long and
productive friendship with the members.
Peace,
Mikey
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 23:28:04 -0600
From: Tom Hinshaw <tomATnospamdwxmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Kundalini, Lucid Dreaming, OBE Article
Message-Id: <199801100528.XAA21882ATnospamiac12.navix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I haven't read it, but thought I'd point out an article just seen....
Kundalini Manifestations, the Lucid-Dreaming, and Out-of-Body Experiences
by Sirley Marques Bonham, PhD
http://www.io.com/~sbonham/kundal.htm
--Tom
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 05:53:50 GMT
From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: Quick Question - " Rakim "
Message-ID: <34ba0c9e.60281982ATnospammailhost.worldnet.att.net>
Can anyone educate me as to the meaning of this ? Is it a what or a
who ?
Peace,
Jack
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