1998/01/07 18:11
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #14
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 14
Today's Topics:
Re: Religion??/Prozac?? [ "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.e ]
Chronic Fatigue [ Samuel Abebe <sabebeATnospamrtinews.com> ]
Re: Faith/Religion [ anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities. ]
Re: Urdhava-retas [ sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack) ]
Re: Religion?? [ sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack) ]
Radiant Being [ "Ed Arrons" <eeaATnospamaug.com> ]
Re: HRTZEN: Verification [ Richard Wentk <richardATnospamskydancer.co ]
Sarcasm/Jokes [ Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com> ]
Contradictions [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
Re: HRTZEN: Verification [ freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net> ]
Re: Verific/Humor(chat) [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Wisdom of the ages from the crown ch [ lvdsATnospamstdin.gatelink.fr.net (Laurent ]
Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource [ sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack) ]
Re: Religion?? [ sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack) ]
Re: Religion??/Prozac?? [ sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack) ]
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:47:55 -0500
From: "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
To: Gloria Lee <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
Cc: deliriumATnospamionet.net, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Religion??/Prozac??
Message-Id: <34B3F80B.181BATnospamacad.bryant.edu>
Harsha writes: What Gloria Lee writes reflects true wisdom. If one
feels healthy, there is no need to take medicine. But when one does not
feel well, and medicine is available, and it will help, there is no harm
in taking it. One must use common sense. Those who look down upon others
and feel a sense of superiority due to differences in the body do not
know the Truth of the Self. A primary emphasis on human biology as a
basis for spirituality is misguided and reveals sheer ignorance.
Harsha
Gloria Lee wrote:
>
>> Gloria Lee here:
> Bless you, indeed, Delirium. As a therapist, I have mixed feelings about
> drugs... perhaps mostly a concern for those who only take the drug and
> do not examine their feelings in any other way. But drugs are so often
> helpful just to restore one to *normality*..then able to tackle any
> other life issues. However, I do wonder what is behind Jack's original
> question. Is Kundalini meant to be a cure-all for whatever else ails
> anyone..body or mind?? We partake of the frailties..all the human race
> is prone to...even the suggestion of the previous thread re: high IQ and
> genius tends also to suggest some form of natural superiority in
> selection..a super race?? a new breed of evolved humanity?? Just because
> some paranormal seeming states may also happen along with Kundalini? I,
> for one, think it is important to resist this sort of elitist
> propaganda..nor do I feel it is accurate in any way. Considering how
> often it has been viewed as a sign of mental and physical
> disturbance..the whole clarification of what may be fairly attributed to
> kundalini deserves deeper consideration than Jack's assumption here...no
> such easy generalizations are possible. I applaud Delirum's courage..let
> us not be in any way *exclusive*..ego will not serve our spiritual
> growth.
>
> ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:17:47 -0500
From: Samuel Abebe <sabebeATnospamrtinews.com>
To: "'heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com'" <heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com>
Cc: "'Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com'" <Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Chronic Fatigue
Message-ID: <01BD1B87.CD33C960ATnospamsabebe>
A friend of mine who have had her K active for about a year has started experiencing chronic fatigue. Does anyone have suggestion?
Please e-mail to sabebeATnospamrtinews.com
Thanks
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 13:41:19 -0800
From: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
To: hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu
CC: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com,
"Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>,
Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>, AthenaATnospamreninet.com, NancyATnospamwtp.net
Subject: Re: Faith/Religion
Message-ID: <34B3F678.57460DAATnospamgeocities.com>
"Harsh Luthar wrote:
> Dear Anandajyoti,
> The only thing I would say is that
> there is no clear line of demarcation between what is objectively
> perceived and what is subjectively perceived. In all cases, the mind
> remains the instrument of perception.
>
> Perhaps the things you say will be helpful to Gene. Best wishes.
>
> Harsha"
Dear Harsha !
What you say which I have quoted above, is very true. Yes, in the non dualistic
state of consciousness, the subject, the object and the medium of transference of
the information all merge into one.
Yes, the mind is the instrument of perception whether subjective or objective.
The mind can be considered as a lake on which all the information received by us
are reflected, whether from within or without.
Many may not agree to what I state here, and there comes the question of
individual/personal experience. When one has that experience, what you stated
would also be appreciated by them. But not till, that personal experience happens
to the individual.
That is why, I think Paramahamsa Ramakrishna had stated, " As many perceptions, so
are there various paths." All rivers merge in the sea , whatever the routes they
may have.
So, personally, I do not find any difficulty with people having different
understandings or perceptions, for they also will in time experience the same, if
they are up to it.
With Warm regards,
Anandajyoti
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 21:58:34 GMT
From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Urdhava-retas
Message-ID: <34c8fa82.24073074ATnospammailhost.worldnet.att.net>
I earned a master of divinity and served for several
years as a local pastor in United Methodist churches until the
Pharisees and Sadducees decided to exclude me both from further
consideration for ordination and from further appointment.
A rather telling and long sentence, Don.
Chill out, brother.
Jack
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 21:58:39 GMT
From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Religion??
Message-ID: <34c9fa89.24079846ATnospammailhost.worldnet.att.net>
Only one person answered my query that thought Melatonin had any
effect on K, so maybe there is no connection.
Hillary
I'm not sure of the relationship of melatonin to seratonin but I
believe most anti-depressants raise seratonin levels. Be that as it
may, I'll take awakening over any drug but having suffered from major
depression for three years, it was the AD's that kept me going until
awakening. Now I'm free of both the drugs and the depression.
Now if I can just get this puppy moving, been stuck in the old
Manipura for awhile and the vibrations are beginning to take their
toll.
Jack
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:22:56 -0500
From: "Ed Arrons" <eeaATnospamaug.com>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Radiant Being
Message-Id: <199801072228.RAA09068ATnospamsandia.aug.com>
A mini-thesis...extension of etheric and light body subject.
In attaining a stabile, 'radiant self', I am best able to meet my needs
for commonality with others, a sense of community, and an expanding
consciousness...coinciding with the ultimate goal of K.A.
This aim is motivated by past and present conditioning of a fragmentary
nature which creates instability in the self.
So what is meant by the 'radiant self' and how is it attained?
I am only beginning to identify/understand this phenomenon. I sense
that the radiant self results from the flow of bio-electric currents -which
is transmuted energy of the 'Supreme Essence'. These currents produce
a bio-magnetic field that radiates when sufficient energy from the
Supreme Essence is absorbed and balanced in the energy centers of the
physical body. When the influx of Supreme Essence is consistent it creates
a stabile, radiant (or enlightened?) self.
I sense that this process, the radiant self, can be facilitated by a meditative
focus on the bio-magnetic field which permeates the whole physical self.
Experience or concepts that validate or negate this thesis would be of
great value.
-Ed
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 22:54:45 +0000
From: Richard Wentk <richardATnospamskydancer.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: Verification
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980107214939.008c6470ATnospammail.which.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 14:37 07/01/98 EST, VBrisson wrote:
>In a message dated 1/4/98 5:18:55 PM EST, gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com writes:
>
><< So those who KNOW they are Enlightened, or whatever, might
> feel that it wouldn't be such a bad idea if the scientific community
> were to verify the existence of Kundalini.
> >>
>If the scientific community were to verify some physical evidence in the
>awakening of K, they could classify it as a disorder of the same type of,
say,
>schizophrenia, as a type of chemical imbalance or other of the brain. What's
>genius for some is madness to others. How do you address that?
Not neccessarily.
Would we all have been better off if Lee Sanella's book had never been
written?
As a related case in point, here in the UK acupuncture was The Devil's Own
work 20 years ago as far as the medics were concerned, and now it's
available free as part of the National Health Service.
If no one makes an effort to demystify these experiences they remain
mysterious and frightening. I don't see how this does anyone any favours.
It's true that many doctors and scientists are knee-jerk sceptics, but a
significant proportion have more open minds. Should we ignore the latter
just because the former make the most noise?
R.
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:06:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>
To: lodpressATnospamintercomm.com
Cc: AthenaATnospamreninet.com, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com,
hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu, anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com, NancyATnospamwtp.net
Subject: Sarcasm/Jokes
Message-Id: <199801072306.SAA21900ATnospamdavinci.netaxis.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Gloria,
Your suggestion regarding my sarcasm and jokes has been taken to
heart, and I will endeavor, hence forth, to modulate my tone and
refine my humor.
Good news! Ever-increasing numbers of K-people have been leaving
their mailing addresses for the free book and articles. So far, I
think we've topped 36, and we may only have scratched the surface.
For nearly 30 years, I've been licking stamps, typing addresses,
trekking to the post office, and living next to my photocopy machine,
all in an effort to get out the information on Kundalini. Now I feel
that a new phase of the work is just beginning.
Only a few of the articles are ABOUT Kundalini, but all are the
RESULT of Kundalini. What I mean is this: Gopi Krishna was of average
intelligence when he began meditating in earnest at the age of 17. He
had only gone to a rural school in his native Kashmir.
Then, at the age of 34, he awakened Kundalini. But it was not until
he reached the age of 50, or 16 years after the awakening, that he began
to write. Prior to that, he was incapable of writing anything more than
a simple letter.
So it was only after the Kundalini had worked in his brain and nervous
system for 16 years that he felt the urge to write. Here's the way he
explains it:
"The lines occurred one after the other, as if dropped into
the three-dimensionl field of my consciousness by another source
of condensed knowledge within me. They started from the glowing
recesses of my being, developing suddenly into fully formed couplets
like falling snowflakes which, from tiny specks high up, became
clear-cut, regularly shaped crystals when nearing the eye, and
vanished so suddenly as to leave me hardly any time to retain
them in my memory. They came fully formed, complete with
language, rhyme, and meter, finished products originating as it
seemed from the surrounding intelligence to pass before my internal
eye for expression."
After receiving these first verses in Kashmiri, his native tongue, other
material came to him in English, Punjabi and Persian, languages with
which he was familiar to a more or less degree. But within a month,
he was astonished when he began to receive verses in German, a language
he had never learned nor seen written, nor. to hnbis knowledge, ever
heard spoken in his presence. This was followed shortly thereafter by
poetry in French and Italian, again languages with which he was not
familiar.
THE SHAPE OF EVENTS TO COME, which we are sending along with the
articles, was also written in verse--in English. Most everything he
wrote after the age of 65 was in English.
As mentioned, he did write about Kundalini all the time. But
everything he did write was the result of his awakening. His greatest
concern was for world peace. That is why he wrote "The Shape of Events
to Come." And that is why his friends are now sending the book to the
media and to diplomats around the world.
Thanks again for your kind suggestions. And for introducing me to
the K-list.
All the best,
gene
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:31:16 -0600
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>
Cc: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Contradictions
Message-Id: <l03010d0cb0d9beed7124ATnospam[207.71.51.17]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Gene:
You've been making such contradictory statements, I don't know how you can
believe all of them. Are you just being sarcastic? Maybe people who know
you understand what you're doing, but people who don't know you have to
take your words as literal - and they certainly look confused.
Ann
>But K-people
>have their own religion which cannot be "known" by anybody else because
>nobody else will understand. We alone are different, unique, honored,
>delighted with ourselves, take no notice of others, feel blessed, live
>outside the norm, and in every way stand above the herd. We ARE
>special. Don't let science in on our little secret!
-----------------
>It is very rare for an ordinary
>awakening to blossom into genius or Transcendence. VERY, VERY RARE!
>
> Many of us will live long enough, and if we stay in touch with
>one another, we will see that our "Kundalini Experiences" were just
>that!
------------------
>All we K-people have to do is act normal, if we can, and let Kundalini
>pervade the universe as She will, whether we like it or not. We do not
>own Kundalini just because we've "experienced" Kundalini. She is not
>our exclusive property to be shared only with our chat group friends.
>
> Kundalini is and always has been, and always will be, Universal.
-------------------
>We K-people, generally
>speaking, want our "K-experiences" to be classified as a religion.
>Fine. But I think honesty and integrity demands that we select a
>name for our religion, one that is not generic. A generic name, such
>as Kundalini, cannot be patented, trademarked or copyrighted. So if
>we wish to remain exclusive, above the crowd, it would be best if we
>picked a new name and let science deal with Kundalini with an open,
>objective mind. If we truly want to be fair-minded about this, then
>we must not exclude the "unawakened" from gathering the knowledge of
>Kundalini. Kundalini should be accessible to ALL. So, who's got a
>good name for our NEW RELIGION?
-------------------
>What we K-people
>should try to do, little by little, is expand our view of the world.
>We tend to be egocentric, and that's perfectly understandable. But
>after a few years of talking about "our experiences," as though we were
>in some way special or unique, begins to become weary.
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 15:34:42 -0800
From: freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net>
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: Verification
Message-ID: <34B41112.6E8EATnospamblarg.net>
Viviane ASKS:
> >If the scientific community were to verify some physical evidence in the
> >awakening of K, they could classify it as a disorder of the same type of, say,
> >schizophrenia, as a type of chemical imbalance or other of the brain. What's
> >genius for some is madness to others. How do you address that?
> >
> >
Gene Responds:
> Dear Viviane,
> We should not assume, automatically, that these scientists will be
> dummies. They will know everything we know and maybe a lot more. We have gone
> over this question a hundred times and have written very extensively about it.
>That is why we assume that many of the K-people would have thought about it
>and learned a lot over the years.
................................
<<<<<<WARNING --- INCOMING - HUMOR>>>>>>
What were we learning? A lot of what? ....
>>>We should not assume, automatically,
>>>that these scientists
>>>will be dummies.
>>>They will know everything we know and maybe a lot more.
.................duh,......
What were we learnin' again?
:) :) heheheheh, [pre] K-humor. :)
well, it was funny here.
<<<<<<<END HUMOR>>>>>>>
........................
Seriously, Gene,
I would also be interested in HOW you intend to address this issue.
How will you distunquish between the "mad" and the "enlightened?"
If this is in your offered material then send me a copy...
freda.
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:02:33 PST
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: fredaATnospamblarg.net
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Verific/Humor(chat)
Message-ID: <19980108000234.18267.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>
>Viviane ASKS:
>> >If the scientific community were to verify some physical evidence
in the
>> >awakening of K, they could classify it as a disorder of the same
type of, say,
>> >schizophrenia, as a type of chemical imbalance or other of the
brain. What's
>> >genius for some is madness to others. How do you address that?
>> >
>> >
>Gene Responds:
>> Dear Viviane,
>> We should not assume, automatically, that these scientists will be
>> dummies. They will know everything we know and maybe a lot more. We
have gone
>> over this question a hundred times and have written very extensively
about it.
>>That is why we assume that many of the K-people would have thought
about it
>>and learned a lot over the years.
>................................
><<<<<<WARNING --- INCOMING - HUMOR>>>>>>
>
>What were we learning? A lot of what? ....
>
>>>>We should not assume, automatically,
>>>>that these scientists
>>>>will be dummies.
>>>>They will know everything we know and maybe a lot more.
>
>.................duh,......
>What were we learnin' again?
>
>:) :) heheheheh, [pre] K-humor. :)
>
>well, it was funny here.
><<<<<<<END HUMOR>>>>>>>
>........................
>
>Seriously, Gene,
>I would also be interested in HOW you intend to address this issue.
>How will you distunquish between the "mad" and the "enlightened?"
>If this is in your offered material then send me a copy...
>
>freda.
>
>Gloria LEE smiling here:
May I suggest a politically-correct term?? We can refer to the "mad" as
merely "karmacially-challenged"...however, the "enlightened" will need
to pass several scientifically proven tests before being deemed as
"certifiable"....
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 01:16:11 +0100
From: lvdsATnospamstdin.gatelink.fr.net (Laurent Cas)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Wisdom of the ages from the crown chakra
Message-Id: <01.08.98.01.16.11.upcomATnospamstdin.gatelink.fr.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello,
[Message sent to the list and in Email to Kurt]
In Kundalini mail list, keutzerATnospamsynopsys.com wrote:
> Secondly, regarding the descent of the spirit and the crown cakra. I have
> two different experiences. One is of a wonderful loving compassionate
> energy. As soon as I am in tune with it I feel more open and kind. The
> other experience is harder to define. The energy is associated with the
> crown but the closest feeling I can relate it to is a kind of partriarchal
> power. I remember in Pentecostal Church as a child the elder men used to
> gather - they all had this energy. It was not negative in any way but it
> was not especially compassionate. It has a kind of ``wisdom of the ages
> certainty'' about it. Can anyone explain the nature of this second energy.
- Dad Creator?
- Yes?
- I see the world, and mine brothers and sisters. Every Creature is your
child. I see the world and how much humans hurts it and each others. Oh
Dad, i feel so sad about all this, it makes me cry. I wish we all could
live in your Love. And i know you suffers with each of your Creatures
suffering. Oh Dad, can't we release this? You are the All Powerful, why
don't you do something?
- Sit down my Child, next to me to my right, and watch. I am working at
this yet. Look at the world, at your brothers and sisters.
- ...Yes. There is a lot of work to do. So it takes a long time.
- It's a long process yes, but things changes.
- Dad, can't we speed up things, even just a little?
- My Son, how many time did it took you to understand and change? Your
brothers and sisters needs time too to understand. ...If we turn the owen
too warm, the cake will burn. We need to have the right temperature for
the right time, and the cake will be the best. I am everywhere in
every Ones. Everything is working.
- Dad, i am where you tell me to be. I work for you at any time i breathe,
and yet each of my breathes are for you. But i feel i could do more.
Dad, tell me what could i do while the cake is in the owen?
- You need to think about the cake. Love it. Love it while it is changing
as you changed. It is a tuff and hard process. The cake needs support
during this time, just as you needed. Love the cake and encourage it.
Sit down and sing while watching at the cake in the owen. The cake will
be even better because it will be full of Love. Love the cake while it
is changing just as much as I Loved (and still Loves) you while you
were changing because I knew how good you will be. Love your brothers
and sisters, support them.
- Dad?
- Yes?
- I LOVE YOU. Your Love have never failed. And each and every time i need
You, You have always helped me and supported me. ...Tell me Dad, me, as
a cake, am i a good cake for you?
- The best cakes are the ones eatens with friends. Anyway, you are not
a cake... If you did forget stop meditating for a while ;-) ...and
anyway you need a little more cushion :-))
- You are my Creator and my best friend Dad!
- You, Childs, are mine best friends,
(all together: )
- ...and friends of my friends are my friends! :-))
- Dad?
- Yes?
- Nothing. I just love to ask and listen You always answers me. ;-)
- ;-)
Kurt, isn't this "Love in brotherhood", compassion?
Namaste',
Laurent.
ps: if you reply, please send me an email copy as i am late at reading
the mail list.
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 15:01:25 GMT
From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: GANDM.WAINDATnospamSYMPATICO.CA
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-ID: <34bd97da.48794697ATnospammailhost.worldnet.att.net>
HAS ANYONE EVER HEARD OF "MZNA BA N ZI JI?" OR "RE AN O?"
I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM ANYONE WHO IS INVOLVED WITH SIMILAR
EXPERIENCES TO MINE. PERHAPS WE COULD BE OF GREAT ASSISTANCE TO EACH
OTHER'S GROWTH.
If I'm not mistaken someone else posted over the weekend a similar if
not exact description of this same language. anyone remember who
posted ? I think it was a newbie.
Jack
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 15:05:35 GMT
From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
To: Lorianna Burkes <lady_enchantmentATnospamyahoo.com>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Religion??
Message-ID: <34be9900.49088977ATnospammailhost.worldnet.att.net>
In case there was any misconception, I just wanted to make sure you
realized that only the second paragraph is mine, I was using anothers
post and left out the header. I have no doubts. A valid question
though.
Jack
I for one am not on any drugs...i dont even take asprin....my
kundalini awakening is real...not a delusion...and my spirituality is
real....just wanted to put my two cents worth in on this poll of
yours..
Lorianna
> Now this brings up another question: How can one know whether
> his/her Kundalini is genuine or a delusion? We all know what
hypnosis can do, andwe all know that a lot of people these days are
> self-deluded about a lotof things. Is there any objective way to
know who's deluded when it comes to our favorite subject?
>
> I for one, would like to take a confidential poll as to how many of
us are on any kind of medications, especially anti-depressants or
painkillers. I think not many.
>
>
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 23:05:02 GMT
From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Religion??/Prozac??
Message-ID: <34ce0a0e.28053069ATnospammailhost.worldnet.att.net>
the whole clarification of what may be fairly attributed to
kundalini deserves deeper consideration than Jack's assumption
here...no such easy generalizations are possible.
Please Gloria,
Don't put words in my mouth or assign assumptions to me. I
asked a simple question and gave my opinion that probably not many of
us used any medications. No generalizations were implied. So far today
from the private email responses and those to the list it looks like a
60/40 proposition. So what ? Doesn't make anything less valid.
Regards,
Jack
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