1998/01/06 15:02
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #10
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 10
Today's Topics:
Posture-Self Realization [ Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant ]
Re: Help - Moral Dilemma? Off subjec [ Nancy <NancyATnospamwtp.net> ]
Announcement [ Robert Bristow <robertATnospambristow.demo ]
Boiling water analogy/Initiation [ ori <oriATnospameskimo.com> ]
Re: K or vivid imagination? [ John Halonen <halonenATnospamflash.net> ]
Re: Faith/Religion [ "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.e ]
Yogi Bhajan/Kundalini-yoga [ mraft <at3ATnospamearthlink.net> ]
Re: Transcendent...can't get enough [ tgxxxATnospamjuno.com (tg langston) ]
Re: Benefits of Kundalini [ sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack) ]
Re: Sadism *also* female Pheromones [ sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack) ]
Re: Outside circumstances/awakened K [ Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com> ]
sadism, masochism...slavery??? [ iri <iriATnospamivyrealty.com> ]
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 07:05:12 -0800
From: Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu>
To: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, Afperry <AfperryATnospamaol.com>
Subject: Posture-Self Realization
Message-Id: <34B24828.3C9FATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu>
On the path of Kundalini Yoga, discipline, practice and moral purity
play a larger role than many people imagine. Self-awareness is critical
on all paths. Comments were made about what the appropriate posture is.
Lying down and meditating is fine. I realized the Self lying down. In my
early 20s, it was my habit to sit for hours on end even when my back got
tired. One day I had been sitting for about 4 hours in meditation and
experiencing different Superconscious states. I opened my eyes, got up
and lay down on the floor in Savasana on a rug where I used to sleep. I
was tired and my back was tired. Then I became still. The Shakti arose
to the Crown center and rested there in the brain. This I was quite used
to. Then by the Grace of the Sage of Arunachala, it went further and
with unerring accuracy found the Heart, the very Core of Being, the
Self-Existent Reality, and became That. It was only then that I
understood why the Self is described as Sat-Chit-Ananda and why it is
known as Nityam (eternal) and Poornum (complete, whole or non-dual).
This is why I say, beyond the Superconscious and visionary states,
beyond the celestial planes, and beyond all the glamor and lights of
Kundalini Yoga, there is only One Reality. Call it what you want and
give it any name. It is only your own True Nature and you are never
separate from it. Even Now!
Harsha
Ann Morrison Fisher wrote:
>
> Afperry <AfperryATnospamaol.com> wrote:
>
> >The great problem with kundalini awakening is that you've now got rocket-power
> >in all aspects of your life - the lower as well as the higher - hence the
> >importance of not awakening kundalini prematurely....
>
> When I was younger, I was careful to avoid overt manifestations of K. But
> when my guides led me into K. work, it seemed to me that since I was 60
> years old, had been into meditation for at least 40 years, and had taught
> raja yoga since 1970, I was sufficiently mature. What do you think? Is
> this premature?
>
> >It is also crucial to
> >channel kundalini once awakened - kundalini must be used correctly i.e. for
> >your spiritual transformation initially and then for the benefit of others.
> >This is what spiritual sadhana is all about. For the average spiritual
> >aspirant, sadhana is an option: for the kundalini-kid, it's a necessity!
>
> My sadhana began many years ago. I have now added the K. work.
>
> >If the energy is left to 'do is own thing', it will inevitably gravitate
> >to your
> >base desires.
>
> Base? You're showing your prejudice.
>
> Like Muktananda, I put my trust in Shiva/Shakti. She is well able to
> direct all the energies of the body.
>
> >2. Have you read Irina Tweedie's autobiographical account of her 5 year spell
> >with a Sufi master, called 'Chasm of Fire'? She gives a very valuable insight
> >into the nature of her kundalini sadhana and experiences, including the sexual
> >aspects. As with Muktananda, the kundalini was purging her in a short, sharp
> >way: but both these two were being guided by their gurus under ashram
> >conditions. The average lay person could not sustain such an onslaught, which
> >is why the sexual purging occurs more gently over a long period of time
> >instead.
>
> Fortunately, I am being guided by my gurus, though they are not incarnate.
> Chief among them for this work is, of course, Shakti herself.
>
> >4. This whole sexual aspect is fascinating. My own guru once explained to me:
> >"When the kundalini rises, everything else rises with it!", and he made a
> >discreet but graphic sign to ensure I understood his meaning. I did, since I
> >had experienced just that. But this is the secret of Tantric sex, is it not?
> >Awaken the energy by sexual arousal, then lead it up and in rather than down
> >and out.
>
> You are missing the mark here. It is not just awakening sexual energy and
> leading it up, over and over and over. The sexual process itself is
> transformed so that your body reacts to and processes sexual energy in a
> different way. You have also ignored the profound experience of oneself
> and the partner as Shiva/Shakti.
>
> > A dirty and dangerous path in my view
>
> Your prejudice. I do not find sex dirty or dangerous.
>
> >5. Meditating while lying down tends to inhibit the optimum flow of energy in
> >your body, particularly if you are lying on your back i.e. spine. Ann, this
> >ain't good for anyone, especially a kundalini-kid!
>
> I learned to meditate while lying down, and I have done it for many years.
> I do not think it has impeded my progress. I also sit when I feel the
> need, always when meditating with a group.
>
> There is also the fact that I have a spinal curvature caused, I'm told, by
> an undiagnosed case of polio. For me to sit straight takes constant muscle
> exertion. When I lie down on a hard mattress or on the floor, my spine is
> relatively straight and also relaxed, which makes it easier for my gurus to
> manipulate it.
>
> However, I just consulted my gurus about your objection. They agree that
> it is fine for me to lie down for meditation. Shakti says: "When I want
> you to sit, I will make you aware of it."
>
> >Also, I feel that the flow
> >of energy is different in a spine that is axial to the Earth's energies
> >(perhaps that's why dogs don't meditate?).
>
> Need I point out why dogs don't meditate?
>
> >Ten years ago, I used to visit a
> >Sufi group that allowed people to meditate lying down.
>
> Ah, good to know somebody else besides some Tibetan lamas and I are doing it.
>
> >I found the snoring
> >very distracting.
>
> Then don't meditate with them.
>
> The meditation yoga I learned and that I teach is to put the body,
> emotions, and intellect to sleep while remaining centered in the head and
> fully conscious. When I do that, my body is indeed asleep, though I am
> not. Perhaps those Sufis were also fully conscious.
>
> But for K. meditation, I do not put the body to sleep. I rise above
> emotions and intellect but stay in touch with the body.
>
> Ann
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 06:19:42 +0000
From: Nancy <NancyATnospamwtp.net>
To: Danielle R Dumont <jacinthaATnospamjuno.com>
CC: kundalini-1 <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Help - Moral Dilemma? Off subject-long
Message-ID: <34B1CCFC.2337ATnospamwtp.net>
Danielle R Dumont wrote:
> DILEMMA - is it wrong then to continue to press charges and go after him
> for theft if we get back the important stuff? My husband thinks if I
> keep this alive and make him pay for his crime it will bring me to his
> level. Should I let the universe take care of it or
> risk a karma payback? He didn't take anything we cant replace and have
> replaced most of it (except for the files and artwork).
I don't think pressing charges on your ex-partner is wrong. But does it
serve you? That's the question I would ask you or myself in the same
situation.
Don't worry about "karma." Look to yourself to see who you wish to be in
relation to this situation. Do you want to be forgiving? Do you want to
be a proponent of justice? Do you want to be a victim? All these and
more are options for you.
When we act consciously in our choices, knowing that our responses are
up to us, it does make us feel a sense of internal power. At least
that's my experience.
Anyway, I would be surprised if the police would take your charges
seriously since he returned the equipment. My ex-partner stole money
from our bank account. No one would press charges because his name was
still on the account even though he had resigned from the business. I
have never gotten the money back. So count yourself lucky!
Nancy
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:30:55 +0000
From: Robert Bristow <robertATnospambristow.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Announcement
Message-Id: <v03110701b0d7db999ed2ATnospam[158.152.60.1]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Announcement:
Project for a spiritual centre in South Bohemia, Czech Republic
SkyDancing UK (Teachers of Tantra in the UK) want to buy a castle in the
Czech Republic to set up a centre for tantra and related matters.
They would like to ask for help and support from anyone who is excited by
this idea.
Check out
http://www.seagreen.co.uk/tantra/project.html
for more details.
Best wishes
Robert
-------------------------------------------------------------
SeaGreen Consultancy - Web, Macintosh and ISDN
Robert Bristow - 45 Queen Street, Exeter. EX4 3SR
+44 (0) 1392 43 44 41 - Voice +44 (0) 1392 250153 - Fax
robertATnospambristow.demon.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 05:48:20 -0800
From: ori <oriATnospameskimo.com>
To: Kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Boiling water analogy/Initiation
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980106054820.007d7490ATnospammail.eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
There was a bit more to this boiling water analogy...
Decided to repost it with a few more excerpts from the conversation
I had on IRC with my friend Auran. He had once again suggested that
I read "Autobiography of a yogi" and finally I am reading it. And from
this book is where I received the image/vision of the saints meditating
high in the caves of the Himalayan Mountains.
<Auran> I was boiling water for tea
and then some thought appeared to my mind
that meditation is like boiling this water
unless you dont give constant heat - the water will not boil
the real change only occurs after passing the boiling point
and even if hot water is not like cold water...
you have to cross that limit
in most traditions it is said for several exercises the results
occur after any time from 40-180 days
there might occur lesser phenomenons in between as well...
just as the water gets hot
but i saw a lot of people stuck with these lesser
phenomenons before reaching the critical point
<oridev> how does one pass through the resistance which seems to
accompany the move toward the "boiling point"
<Auran> the only solution is to proceed.
<oridev> how does one know when they reach boiling? ;)
<Auran> well, reaching this point indicates a real change.
<Auran> e.g. when you fully charged one of your chakras, it is
going to open fully giving you an extraordinary experience of
yang energy - bright white light and it is going to stay
as long as you keep your exercises going
maybe not the first time, but in the end it will be a permanent status
<oridev> like a .... signal that the current is connected
<Auran> of course when you decharge your chakras, it will leave again
the usual procedure is after opening one chakra to maintain two points
1) not letting the chakra go out of control because of energy overload
2) proceeding with the next chakra in order
<oridev> what is the next chakra after 7?
<Auran> 6
<oridev> ahhh, bring it up and bring it down
<Auran> there are several approaches. You can start from top,from middle
or down. anywhere. i started with 4th - heart chakra
<oridev> well it has jumped around actually, more like it is working me
never have had 7th chakra stirrings like this before
and suddenly the "idea" to gaze upward out the crown of my head
and also to focus looking out both eyes... not at one central point
<Auran> this are indications for the raising energy. It will become constant
and strong once it is fully activated.
<oridev> I like your boiling water analogy
<Auran> it does not seem to be mine :-) I often wonder about things
I said :-) but there's a lot of inspiration in my communcations
<oridev> why does he [Yogananda] talk a lot about being initiated into
Kriya yoga
<Auran> because the kriya is an extremly powerful technique -
once aquired it is your fast track to self realization
The initiation creates a connection between the initiator
and the student. These techniques are very difficult and require
delicate handling - because you can do a lot of things wrong when
high energy is involved. The initiation process creates the
"supervision connection" that will guide the student properly
<oridev> I wonder though does it differ that much from Kundalini yoga?
the opening chant links us into the connection with "the teacher"
<Auran> generally spoken, kriya yoga is also some kind of kundalini yoga
because it aims at awakening the chakras and the kundalani force
plus evolvement of brain and spinal cellular material, physical and
energetically. But there comes a point when i see
that it is nearly
impossible to get through a fast evolving process without
having a responsible guide
<oridev> is not the guide within us?
<Auran> for some it is, but can you listen to it in all situations?
and your inner guidance is not going to save you when you made a
real mistake, sometimes it is required to have a helping hand
watching. Denying this is like doing difficult sport exercises
without the watchful eyes of an instructor that might be seriously
dangerous
<oridev> does that helping hand need to be in a body?
<Auran> no. a guru can be in spirit, and you can also receive the initiation
from spirit, there is really not need to have it in physical
<oridev> part of me would like to have a guru, and part of me says no...
go it alone... just another entrapment
End of #Center buffer Sun Jan 04 09:21:14 1998
Just sharing part of my own process here...
ori
ori oriATnospameskimo.com
http://www.eskimo.com/~ori/ori.html
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 08:58:33 -0800
From: John Halonen <halonenATnospamflash.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: K or vivid imagination?
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980106085832.007a7680ATnospampop.flash.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
ori wrote:
>Had a talk with a friend on IRC who uttered these words:
>
><Auran> I was boiling water for tea
> and then some thought appeared to my mind
> that meditation is like boiling this water
> unless you don't give constant heat - the water will not boil
> the real change only occurs after passing the boiling point
>
> in most traditions it is said for several exercises
> the results occur after any time from 40-180 days
>
>
>>From his analogy I see the practices of meditation and yoga as the heat
>which can raise the energy to boiling point.
>
>Raising the heat,
>ori
>
I have read this before somewhere.
When you raise your energy up from the first chakra to the heart,
The third chakra's energy becomes the heat, or the boiling pot to
convert your new fourth chakra energy.
I like the analogy your friend brings.
When I read it, it seemed to apply more to our beings rather than
just energy or kundalini.
Blessings,
John Halonen
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 12:50:11 -0500
From: "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
To: Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>
Cc: AthenaATnospamreninet.com, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com,
hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu, anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com, NancyATnospamwtp.net
Subject: Re: Faith/Religion
Message-Id: <34B26ED3.3065ATnospamacad.bryant.edu>
>> Gene Kieffer wrote:
> Dear Wilathi,
>
snip....
>
> we wish to remain exclusive, above the crowd, it would be best if we
> picked a new name and let science deal with Kundalini with an open
> objective mind. snip...,> Sincerely,
> gene
Harsha writes: Dear Gene, you seem to buy into the common notion
accepted by many people; i.e. if someone says something is "Scientific",
it means that it is "Objective" and therefore it has more credence. As a
student of Philosophy of Science and as a research methodologist I would
have to tell you that things are not always what they seem, not even in
Science. You may not be aware that there has been considerable debate
among scientists and scholars regarding the true "Objectivity" of
Science. It is quite well established that the "business" of Science is
as political, value laden and subjective as the "business" of religion
and spirituality. Since you love reading books, you will be happy to
know that there are many books and papers on this topic. One of my
favorite books, which I read as a Ph.D. student some years ago is
called, "The Science Game: An Introduction to Research in the Social
Sciences" by Agnew, N.M. & Pyke, S.W., 1986. Gene, I would really like
you to consider what is meant by "Objectivity" and what is meant by
"Subjectivity" and what role our definitions of these terms play in how
we perceive and experience Reality.
Harsha
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:24:11 -0800
From: mraft <at3ATnospamearthlink.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Yogi Bhajan/Kundalini-yoga
Message-ID: <34B268BA.DC3585FAATnospamearthlink.net>
Dear List,
I am considering going to a Kundalini-yoga class that I just located right
here in my neighborhood of Haight/Ashbury, San Francisco. In fact, the center
is only one block from my house. I feel very fortunate they are so close, but
I am curious if anyone on the list is familiar with Yogi Bhajan and his style
of K-practice? I remember many years ago going to one of his classes in
Brooklyn and feeling like I was floating on the sidewalk while walking back to
the subway. But then I started Zen style meditation and never practice K-yoga
again. What I remember was a very rigorous "workout" type of practice. Is this
typical of K-yoga practice? I have, perhaps, become too accustomed to quiet
and long periods of sitting and am wondering how I may respond to this
specific style.
I would gratefully appreciat any information on Yogi Bhagan style or any other
ways to practicing K-yoga.
Thank you,
Mike
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:17:13 -0500
From: tgxxxATnospamjuno.com (tg langston)
To: deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Transcendent...can't get enough of it! (RAMBLING)
Message-ID: <19980106.123053.20902.3.tgxxxATnospamjuno.com>
Kathy wrote: <<<<Okay, now the "blue funks" between getting energy
surges seem to be happening to me...or is it just "mundane reality"
hitting me between the eyes?
Re-read my post of a few days back and realized it was really nice "up
there" and now I'm feeling odd and off balance again and hoping for more
experiences...>>
As I was reading your letter, what occurred to me was that these ups and
downs are coming closer and closer in your reality..... which is most
wonderful! I see it much like giving birth of the Christ within, and
these ups/downs are like contractions/expansions we have during labor.
Not quite sure what you are giving birth to - it may be an idea you've
had, or some internal or external changes going on -- hey, we need a
sonogram here to find out if it is male/female! LOL Whatever it is
though, I am sure it will be such a blessing.
Try and watch (observe) these pendulum swings of feelings to see if they
truly are getting closer together. I think you'll find it quite
interesting!
I discovered during my funk/contraction times, it didn't matter what I
tried, I couldn't focus or meditate or study. So what I say now, is
'don't bother!' Most likely by now, you know of going with the flow, all
the wonderful cliche's (and this, too, shall pass; focusing on the big
picture; etc. etc.), so those will get you thru the funk times. These
down times are an excellent time to just observe - during the good times,
I love to get involved!
Enjoyed your rambling.... Take care.
Love,
xxxtg
* If someone is shocked from sleep by a bowl of pasta, I wonder ...
would that qualify as a "Canneloni Awakening" ?? *
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html <~~~~~~ on the web now!
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 17:34:08 GMT
From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Benefits of Kundalini
Message-ID: <34b26b09.1051021ATnospammailhost.worldnet.att.net>
Would someone please explain what clairsentience is? I've heard it
defined in different ways, so I'm not clear on what the word means.
The ability to read minds. But, only of people named Claire. : )>
Jack
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 17:34:22 GMT
From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com
Subject: Re: Sadism *also* female Pheromones and K.
Message-ID: <34b36b13.1061392ATnospammailhost.worldnet.att.net>
the smell of the awakened ones has been commented on in many ancient
texts, eh? The scent of roses mysteriously wafting from
This intrigues me. The Scent of Roses plays a big part in my
experiences. Everytime my energy rises and I experience an empathic
connection, there is the scent, always roses and lasts the whole
expereince through.
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:46:43 EST
From: Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com>
To: RadiantTchATnospamaol.com, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Outside circumstances/awakened K [Triggers]
Message-ID: <836549ae.34b28a25ATnospamaol.com>
Dear Barbara Ellen,
My triggers seemed to be
1. Hatha Yoga exercises
2. Love
3. Melatonin ???
Has anyone else suspected a melatonin connection? or is it just coincidence.
Just read in John Whites *Kundalini evolution and Enlightenment* Philip
Lansky's Neurochemistry and the awakening of K mentioning that melatonin can
cyclize to a potent hallucinogenic.
Love, Hillary
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 11:49:31 -0800
From: iri <iriATnospamivyrealty.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: sadism, masochism...slavery???
Message-Id: <199801062048.OAA25443ATnospamsmtp1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #4
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 06:28:29 PST
From: "mohamed omar" <yogi_artATnospamhotmail.com>
Subject: Sadism
Anybody knows about Sadism?
I know a girl now , she likes to be bitten up during sex.
She side she likes the feeling of being slave!
Anybody knows what is the pleasure of being slave?
Is this a psychologic disease ?
I am wondering if I can have any information about sadism..
-----------------------------------------------------------
Sadism??? Why would someone inflict harm another person?
Masochism??? Why would someone inflict harm on oneself?
Slavery??? Is the slave a willing or non-willing participants is the first
question?
What purpose is served?
Slavery in Egypt (and in more modern times slavery in the USA) was bad but
what about slavery to your work? Is that any better?
What's it like to be a slave?
Why would someone want to enslave another?
Why would someone want to be enslaved?
These are the start of many other questions that are likely to be generated
Yet, there is something to be said for the concept of a hard working
individual suddenly giving herself or himself over to another...along with
that goes the decision making process and perhaps it forms a type of mental
relaxation as in the mindset that thinks something like...I dont have to
think, I only have to do as I'm told....Whew, what a relief!
I'm not sure about the reasoning for the query (I assume there is more to
the query than that which is posted) but the topic(s) are not easy ones to
brush aside. Nor am I sure if Kundalini can be explained as the source of,
or the methodology of dealing with, such topics...but then what do I
know...I'm inexperienced in matters of Kundalini and such topics are
unfamiliar to me on a personal level. Now if only I could find a way to
escape from my workload and the pressures it brings to bear...will Kundalini
help me with that...I dont know but I sure hope so! Will somebody please
tell me what to do. And oh yes, I'm overworked, and underpaid...Poor me!
Alas! Woe is me! Do you see me wringing my hands?
One thing though, I doubt sadism, masochism, and slavery are symptomatic of
a disease of any kind, but I am not a doctor...
As for information about sadism, Check with the local library...possibly in
the reference section for psychology and/or psychiatry. There should be some
material on the topic available there. If your local library doesnt have
adequate information to answer your query, perhaps a local college or
university library can be of help to you, and of course another option is
that you can always pay a professional consultant to discuss your concerns.
Maybe you will get more out of that because you can discuss the particulars
and get more detailed and better explained answers...maybe...One other
thought, maybe you can ask at your local hospital if they can provide you
with the name of a discussion group or research group for the topic...there
seems to be a group for nearly everything imaginable these days.
Best Wishes for 1998 and hoping you get the answers you are looking for
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