1997/12/31 00:02
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #872
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 872
Today's Topics: Kundalini as incidental (was RE: Gen [ Kurt Keutzer ]
Re: Gays [ "F. Drew " ] Re: Institutions [ "F. Drew " ]
RE: Gays [ Mike Stickles ] A Modest (email) Proposal [ "Sharon Webb" ]
Re: Institutions [ Gloria Greco ] Re: Kundalini & life [ David Bozzi ]
Re: Who Am I? [ David Bozzi ] Re: Science [ David Bozzi ]
Newy here [ Debbie Baldock To: "'Harsh Luthar'" ,
"lodpressATnospamintercomm.com"
Cc: Gene Kieffer , "heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com"
, "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com"
, "shalomATnospamcheerful.com"
Subject: Kundalini as incidental (was RE: Genius)
Message-ID:
Harsha says:
One thing caught my eye and so I will not resist (The Shakti makes me do it!). Gene said that the Self is a vague destination or a concept. I say
it is the clearest and the only destination for the Kundalini Shakti. Further I add that all the transcendental and transformational events
associated with the Kundalini Power are incidental and not essential to Self-Realization.
So why do you subscribe to a listsever devoted to a topic that is `` incidental and not essential to
Self-Realization''? Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:42:45 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer To: "'Ann Morrison Fisher'" ,
"kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com" Cc: "'berryATnospamcnwl.igs.net'"
Subject: RE: Kundalini & Bible Message-ID:
There is a book entitled ``Kundalini and the Bible'' if you can't find it I
will look up the reference.
I don't know where charismatic christianity fits into your program but someone took my kundalini FAQ and chopped it up to show that charismatic
x-ianity does the same thing. They don't view that favorably - but the comparisons are striking:
http://www.niksula.cs.hut.fi/~ahuima/toronto/kundalini.html
Kind Regards.
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:38:31 GMT From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Uranus Opposition
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I am Reading Barbara Hand Clow THE LIQUID LIGHT OF SEX and it is all about "KUNDALINI RISING AT MID-LIFE CRISIS" and she ties it into the
astrological aspects of life.. i.e. the Saturn Return.. the Uranus transits etc. all indicate major shifts in the life of a human being.
Page 17.." Mid-life crisis--the triggering of kundalini rising by the transits of Uranus--results in the erotic emergence of thedivine self
in preparation for the second half of life, when we become holistic beings. We give birth to ourselves for a new life."
I am not much into Astrology.. but she goes into this in detail. She then goes into the symptoms including "Hot Flashes(And it Isn't
Menopause)" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that was a real struggle for me. Awakening after a three year
period of depression, and a twin flame manifesting at the same time really threw me. I was sure all my symptoms were due to " mid-life
crisis " and one of the symptoms was a 47 year old man developing a "love jones" for someone because of a series of coincidences. If that
was the case, I could have done myself a favor and NOT picked this particular person to attach myself to. : )>
Developments since then, have sent the "mid-life crisis" theory into
the circular file. But that period of self-examination into motives, goals and fears was well worth the angst.
In addition to my depression having lifted completely I just returned
from having an EMG which showed that the peripheral neuropathy I had suffered from for over a year, has completely disappeared. Is that
cool.......... or what !
Now that things have calmed down for me, I'm into self-examination on a deeper level and I'm rather enjoying my K being stuck between the
Swadhisthana and the Manipura, those of you having experienced this will understand what I mean. : )>
I do see a serious problem arising. Deep down I have this powerful
need to validate my "twin flame" experience. This is not healthy for me but it is a continuous struggle. Anyone else struggle with a
similar problem and overcome it ?
What it is.
Jack
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 13:51:30 -0800 From: Kurt Keutzer
To: "'HJTA1342'" , "lodpressATnospamintercomm.com"
, "hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu"
Cc: "d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au"
, "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com"
Subject: RE: Another Perspective
Message-ID:
Perspective
Dieter Dambiec wrote: > >
> > (The trance/awareness of > > indeterminate absorption or total suspension of the
> > mind - Nirvikalpa Samadhi). Due to the absence of any binding principle
> > this state is called the > > state of Objectlessness. This state is verbally inexpressible
because.... > >
> > This state of objectlessness being beyond the orbit of mind, it is not > > mentally apprehensible. It is the Absolute Bliss where there is no
knower > > or known.
HJTIA1342 says: Dieter, purely on logical grounds, if there is no knower or known in
Nirvikalpa Samadhi, how can anyone claim (as you do), that it is the state of
Absolute Bliss . Without a knower present, it seems like complete guess work
as to what it is. On a rational basis alone, Harsha's explanation seems to make more sense.
> > Harsha answers: Dieter, your understanding is intellectual only.
> Nirvikalpa Samadhi is not a state where there is no knower and known. It > is a state where the KNOWER and the KNOWN are IDENTICAL. Nirvikalpa
> means without thought or doubt or mental modification. Absence of mental > modification in Nirvikalpa Samadhi allows for the Clear Recognition of
> the Self. Self is both the Knower and the Known without any duality. > Nirvikalpa Samadhi is the state of Full and Complete Consciousness. If
> it was a state that is beyond understanding, Sages such as Shankracharya > and Ramana Maharishi would not be able to speak of it. Such is not the
> case. The mind can continue to exist and function after Nirvikalpa > Samadhi. And through the existing mental functions, the Sage can teach
> and experience. The Sage may weep or laugh or eat or sleep or dream. All > those things are due to mental modifications. After Self-Realization,
> the mind is seen as existing but not separate from the Self. The Self > Knows Itself even though the mind still exists. It is due to the
> presence of the Mind, (until the departure from the body), that > Knowledge of the Self can be passed on by the Realized beings to others
> who seek such knowledge. >
> Harsha
Agree with Harsha, it is a state of union and being where there is only one view manifesting in the ongoing flow of life. Gloria
Seems like we're creating quite a tempest in a linguistic teapot. I don't
know whether the great sages of the past are all experiencing the same thing. But presuming, that they do experience the same thing, as I believe
Harsha says they do, then they have certainly spoken about it in different ways. Some have said that it is inexpressible. Some have spent volumes
describing it. Even within the same schools such as the Madhyamaka school of Mahayana Buddhism some have said that no positive attributes can be
applied to the ultimate reality experienced in the highest samadhis - they have argued that it can only be exposited by negation. Others within that
school have argued that no mere negation can ever capture the nature of the ultimate reality. I think that what Dieter has said is certainly within the
realm of the acceptable descriptions of the state. Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:37:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Gene Kieffer To: sashankaATnospamaismi.ais.it
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, gsdonneATnospamiinet.net.au, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com
Subject: New Millennium Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Ashanka,
Again, I was delighted to read all that you have written about the "unchanging world scene." I realize that the Hindu Tradition is more
or less emphatic about the cyclical nature of the world, the various Yugas, etc.
But there is one thing that we have today that was perhaps not
envisaged by even the highest rishis and sages of the past, and that is the all-powerful H-bomb, etc.
If we continue to move in the same materialistic direction we are
moving at present, then a nuclear war is inevitable. The industrial West cannot continue to have such a high standard of living while the
undeveloped nations struggle just to have enough food to prevent starvation. A nuclear arsenal is not such a difficuilt achievement
these days. If a nation has oil wealth, it can afford to buy the technology to build nuclear missiles.
So, there must be a change. I do not actually foresee such a change
occurring before there is a nuclear war, however. But I have high hopes that such a war will be "limited."
Of course, my thinking in this regard is the result of my discussions
with Gopi Krishna and reading his book, THE SHAPE OF EVENTS TO COME.
I don't say that his views of a nuclear war are correct. He could just as well be wrong. But anyone reading THE SHAPE OF EVENTS TO COME by shaken.
If anyone wishes to obtain a free copy of THE SHAPE OF EVENTS TO COME,
he or she need only let me know his or her mailing address. We will send a copy without charge. Or they can write to the K. R. F., at P. O. Box
2248, Darien, CT 06820. Friends have just printed 2,000 copies and are mailing them out to whoever might be interested in reading it.
With all best wishes,
gene Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:18:13 -0500
From: "F. Drew " To: "Mike Stickles" ,
Subject: Re: Gays Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
From: Mike Stickles
>I'll use myself as an example of the latter category. My >belief is that homosexuality is morally wrong, yet I've had three close
>acquaintances (or "casual friends," pick your term) who are/were >homosexuals.
What do you base that belief on ???? *
Drew " So Far; So Good "
leydaATnospamvalunet.com Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 12:01:46 -0500
From: "F. Drew " To: , "Gene Kieffer"
Cc: , , ,
Subject: Re: Institutions Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
From: Gene Kieffer >
>So Kundalini will be activated one way or the other, when the person >is predisposed to it. Of course, hereditary factors are a major
>consideration, *********
Really ! This is the first I heard of this. What hereditary factors affect
Kundalini activation ? *
Drew " So Far; So Good "
leydaATnospamvalunet.com Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:50:42 -0500
From: Mike Stickles To: "F. Drew "
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: RE: Gays
Message-ID:
F. Drew wrote:
From: Mike Stickles
>I'll use myself as an example of the latter category. My >belief is that homosexuality is morally wrong, yet I've had
three close >acquaintances (or "casual friends," pick your term) who
are/were >homosexuals.
What do you base that belief on ????
Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; Romans 1:27. My moral beliefs are based on the
teachings of the Bible. As I (1) do not believe that the Bible texts have been "doctored" since their original writing, and (2) do believe
that they were inspired by God, I will naturally interpret them more literally than many others here who would disagree with either or both
of those two points.
When there is no agreement on (1) and (2), I try not to get too deep into debate on morals - there's insufficient common ground. Morality, by
definition, deals with how we *ought* to behave; i.e., a standard of behavior. If the standard I refer to differs from yours, our sense of
right and wrong will inevitably differ to the extent that the standards, and especially our current understanding of them, differ.
Given the tone of our last major debate on the Bible, I sincerely hope
I'm not launching a new one...
- Mike Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:46:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Blythe To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: myrrhATnospamjb.com Subject: Re: Kundalini & life
Message-Id:
At 03:18 PM 12/30/97 -0600, you wrote:
>John Lounsberry wrote: >> Personal experiences with Kundalini and the reality of the world. I
>> have changed but the world has not. My prospective has changed and the way I >>deal with the world.
>Athena whispers: "You can only change YOU ... *never* anybody else
>But when you change yourself, watch how fast everybody else changes >
>And adds: "The way we choose to see the world creates the world we see "
My husband and I were talking about ourselves and others in terms of carrying brimful pails around. He and I have been so brimful of happiness
that it slops over onto everything around us. Other people and animals are happier when they are near us. Another friend slops pain and anger around,
and is hurt that people don't want to spend much time with her. Yet another friend slops peace around with a free hand, while someone we met recently is
very full of only himself and slops that all over everyone so that others are swallowed by him, or leave.
I like slopping love and happiness around me. Perhaps someday I'll get to slopping peace, too.
Blythe Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:56:26 -0500
From: "Sharon Webb" To:
Subject: A Modest (email) Proposal Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01BD155D.02F38EE0"
Hi Everyone,
Many of us like to create email folders to help sort our list mail from our personal and business mail. I'm one of those people---and I'd like request a little change in recent email addressing habits on this list.
When you mix kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com with other email addresses in the "To:" category, or in the Cc: category, all the resulting mail goes into everyone's "In Box" instead of to the appropriate folder. If you will let kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com stand alone---all by itself---either on the "To:" line, or on the "Cc:" line, this will not happen, and all the folder fanciers will be very happy and bless your bones. :-)
Thanks so much.
Sharon
shawebbATnospamyhc.edu A new fractal gallery was posted to this site on November 29th, '97:
http://home1.gte.net/itriazon/Sharon.htm USA Today Hot Site; Cosmic Site of the Night: Cool Central Site of the Day;
ENC Digital Dozen for June '97; Enchantment Award; ArtSearch Featured Site; NetTech NeatTech: Best of the Web in Educational Technology; Eye Candy
Honorable Mention
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kundal67"
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:30:11 +0100 From: Gloria Greco
To: "F. Drew" CC: at3ATnospamearthlink.net, Gene Kieffer ,
heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, kundalini-1ATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Institutions Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
F. Drew wrote:
> >
> Really ! This is the first I heard of this. What hereditary factors affect > Kundalini activation ?
Gloria:
I think everyone would be interested in Gopi's teaching on this. I can certainly see where my line came through in this regard but it is an
interesting aspect to discuss. > *
>
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher. Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
& http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them! Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:26:31 +0100
From: Gloria Greco To: Gene Kieffer
CC: sashankaATnospamaismi.ais.it, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, gsdonneATnospamiinet.net.au, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com
Subject: Re: New Millennium Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Gene Kieffer wrote:
> > If anyone wishes to obtain a free copy of THE SHAPE OF EVENTS TO COME,
> he or she need only let me know his or her mailing address. We will send > a copy without charge. Or they can write to the K. R. F., at P. O. Box
> 2248, Darien, CT 06820. Friends have just printed 2,000 copies and are > mailing them out to whoever might be interested in reading it.
> > With all best wishes,
> gene
Gene, I wonder did Gopi live to see the wall come down in Germany or the
collapse of communism? Gloria
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher. Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
& http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them! Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:13:08 -0500
From: David Bozzi To: Kundalini
Subject: Re: Science Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
freda wrote:
> yea.. WHAT IF. And what if the immense, intelligent power at work here
> sent a manual?
You have been supplied with something much better then a manual.
> OH, wait, yea, I think mine did.
"Your" immense, intelligent Power?
Who made whom here? Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:20:56 -0500
From: David Bozzi To: Kundalini
Subject: Re: Kundalini & life Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
John Lounsberry wrote:
>I carry such high ideals
You are torturing yourself.
> and feel the kundalini energy flowing
> in me, I find a few > cruel words form my boss can cause my heart chakra to close up.
First understand Shakti is bringing to light the whole issue of
your heart and the issue of allowing it to open.
The potential lies within you to allow your heart to open and stay open no matter what anyone says to you.
> What can I do? My dear wife said: "He can't keep being cruel > if all you are is
> nice".
He might. But pretend 'nice' does no one any good. If anything you are pressuring yourself by doing this.
> There has been many years of friction between us, I have been trying to
> fix it.
Might you be trying too hard? So hard you hurt yourself?
> My awakening and change does not mean the world around me has.
Pay attention to the unity between yourself and the world.
> This individual has control over me.
Not really.
Maybe with regard to what you do with your work.
But not over you.
Will you take a certain responsibility for how you choose to react to this experience?
Will you surrender your notion that you are controlled by someone else
to a Higher Source?
>(This is a major blockage in my growth.)
Yes it is. It is also the potential for a major breakthrough.
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:28:48 -0500 From: David Bozzi
To: Kundalini Subject: Re: Who Am I?
Message-ID:
Sen Ashanka wrote:
> nature of this universe is such that the populance will always remain in > the
> same turmoil as always. 5000 years of ancient Indian civilisation with 2000 > years of Christian civilisation up to date has not managed to make much of
> a > dent in the scheme of things.
Dear Sen Ashanka,
In the 'scheme of things' the time frames you've stated are nothing.
Consciousness evolves exponentially. I sense we are due for an "explosion".
Give it a chance.
The reflection will tune into a most beautiful depiction of the Source
before We let it go for the Source.
With Love, David
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:35:37 -0500 From: David Bozzi
To: Kundalini Subject: Re: Science
Message-ID:
Tantrika wrote:
> An analogy: if I have a lit candle, and a light another candle with it, > then another candle from the second, etc, etc....is the flame on the last
> candle I light the same flame i lit it from? no...
Well... assuming space/time is real, you would be correct.
> Thus is consciousness
Precisely.
> In Buddhism we say that only *nothing* is permanent...and question even > that ;}.... so no, I am not the same person I was 10 seconds ago, let alone
> 10 years ago.
The nothing in Buddhism is not the nothing we traditionally think of.
It is a NO thing.
That is, without form.
Just pure essence, energy, without containment.
Unity.
So the Buddhist is not really talking about nothing.
Or anything for that matter. : )
Regards,
David Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:47:22 +1100 (EST)
From: Debbie Baldock To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Newy here Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello I have been reading posts for several days now and have been searching on
the net for the last few months about the Kundalini... I was attuned to teacher level in Reiki a year and a half ago... and have
been finding extrodinary things happening after the attunements, now finding out they are related to the Kundalini... My sexual energy is very very high
after classes.. as I am celibate this was creating confusion as to why this was happening..(hehehehe was wondering if I was becoming a sex maniac)..
trying to find easily read information on the Kundalini has been a task in itself....
let alone the affects on the body as you awaken.. Now I had always believed that you had to be trained to have your Kundalini
awakened and that it should only be done by masters that had trained for many years.
I had always been aware of energy but even more so now..
How do you learn to control the enrgy? can it be controled?
the energy at times goes from very cold to hot, can anyone explain it for me please?
Energy rushes, its great when they are happening and I could climb
mountains, but....
I had a heart condition diagnosed several years ago when carrying second child.. where my heart races upto 160 beats per minute.. I am now wondering
if this is connected to the Kundalini?
I have always been aware of my guides and been able to share with them but the levels of communication have changed...
I would appreciate any information on the above..
Many many thanks
Debi
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