1997/12/28 16:45
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #866
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 866
Today's Topics: Re: Women & sex & kundalini [ Ann Morrison Fisher ]
RE: Guys [ "Larry Schmitz" ] Re: Guys??/Gays [ Tantrika ]
Re: Guys??/Gays [ Tantrika ] [Fwd: Proof] [ Gloria Greco ]
unsubscribe [ Charles Michael Beaver ] Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:21:21 -0600
From: Ann Morrison Fisher To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Women & sex & kundalini Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Athena:
>I would love to get some information about material on Limiting >Decisions (scripting) and what to do about it.
I'll get some material put together and send it, probably tomorrow. Do you
have a method for getting answers from the body/subconscious, or should I include material on that?
>This almost sounds like
>it may be another part of NLP ?
There is a page from NLP in the book. It's on communication strategies: visual, auditory, kinesthetic, and gustatory. And the reading list gives 5
books on NLP by Bandler & Grinder.
This is where I'm weakest, I think. Maybe I'm using all of them, because they just don't seem very meaningful or important to me. I think I need to
read in this area before I start teaching the workshop.
Athena, did you get a copy of my last response at your email address? I've got a long notice here that says it couldn't be sent because your address
"had transient non-fatal errors," whatever that means!
Love, Ann
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 22:09:43 -0600 From: Ann Morrison Fisher
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Awakening/Higher Chakras.
Message-Id:
Hi Stephen:
>There is a book that works with the other higher centres, its by,
> Katrina Raphaell, Auroa Press, Po Box 573 Santa Fe N.M. 87504 (complete >catalog on request)
> >Ann, Ive just checked my bookcase and my copy is missing, but it is vol 2 of
>'Crystal Enlightment'
Thanks, I'll look for it!
> Also a very good book for balancing the chakras by >using crystals and gemstones. (I worked with pple in our group for 5 yrs or
>more with this )
I haven't done much with this, but recently I was moved to buy a piece of red jasper and am using it in my meditations. When you walk around the
grounds at Lynea's house, you see hunks of crystal and other stones here and there, under the shrubbery, among the flowers. It's a magical place!
> >We could pick up the chakras, as well as the higher ones with a crystal
>pendulum. ...
Wouldn't any pendulum work as well? I usually just use a key on a string.
>My own comments an 'kundalini raising'. As noted by past and present gurus, >it is fraught with danger.
Or maybe not, if you're ready and have relatively clear centers and good
guidance. Shakti tells me I'm okay, not to worry.
My biggest concern was my heart/ heart center. I was on a beta blocker for 3 years for arhythmic tachycardia - a fast heart I couldn't control. I was
able to slowly cut the medicine and finally get off it. But Shakti said to me, "You are safe if you love me." So I start every session by telling
Shakti, "I love you." Not that I think Shakti needs my assurance of love. I do think it's important what I'm doing with my heart center.
>However the present times call for an 'awakening'
>on a mass and individual level.
I think it's in process and probably unstoppable now. The appearance of angels all around us seems to me a wonderful sign at the turning of the age.
>If you could learn how to use a pendulum you could then read the open/closed
>degree of any chakra, where blockages are in the meridian lines and other >energy bodies and help clear and balance the chakras and meridian points.
Sounds good and some of this will be helpful to me in my work. But I doubt
I can take the place of my Jin Shin therapist, who uses no pendulum or muscle-testing, just feels with her hands and sees with her eyes.
> >We were able to pick up where blockages existed *between* the various
>chakras and clear these.
I'm sure you realize that some of the positions and strong movements in kundalini practice occur for this very purpose - Shakti knows how to
straighten/ strengthen/ open/ align the body. >
>Fel free to get back to me if you require further information.
Thanks, Stephen.
One tip that might be useful to you and others. At a recent class a student had a problem and Lynea was investigating what should be done. She was
sitting cross-legged in a big chair, consulting her guides, the "angelic kingdom."
"Oh," she said, "it's a matter of misalignment. And what should she do?"
Her legs came uncrossed, and the soles of her feet went together. "Oh," she said, "this aligns her? On what plane? Oh - on whatever plane she should be
on."
Try it : just sit on the floor - straight back, of course - and put the soles of your feet together. I don't think you have to keep that position
too long. Briefly should do it.
Love, Ann
> >>>> Please explain this to me! I've heard "the third eye" used as a term for
>>>> the ajna center in the forehead >>>
>>>GG This is correct, there are actually two other higher minor centers >>>above this, many don't even know they exist, they really connect up to
>>>the crown chakra more then to the third eye.... >>>There are various centers, but the three above the head actually are
>>>used to work with cosmic energies, in other words divine will manifests >>>through these frequencies.
>> >>AMF
>> Can you tell me where to read about this? >>
> >>
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 00:04:52 -0500 From: Mike Stickles
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: RE: Guys
Message-ID:
Tantrika wrote:
> I'm perplexed as to how someone on this > list could have such a bigotted and biased attitude
> about a natural tendency that all living creatures > have.
Well, a handful of thoughts:
1) Everyone is biased. That comes from being human. We all see life
through our own "filters". In this case, the homosexuals a psychologist would likely see with any regularity would be those who felt their
sexual orientation was a problem, thus making the psychologist more likely to view that as a problem ("Psychologist" can rebut me if this
appears to be in error).
2) All living creatures do *not* have this tendency. Hey, many are asexual, and many other species have no observed instances of homosexual
activities.
3) The "natural tendency" concept of homosexuality/bisexuality is a hotly debated concept. Expect this one to remain unresolved (i.e., no
general consensus among the populace) until either the Second Coming or the heat death of the universe, whichever comes first.
4) To someone who sees homosexuality as a problem to be cured rather
than a natural condition, the attitude is no more bigotry than to tell an alcoholic that he needs to be cured. If the person believed that
homosexuality was as natural or inborn as skin color (i.e., unchangeable) but still considered it wrong/evil/whatever, *that* would
be bigotry.
5) Where'd this topic come from, anyway? Was there some lead-up to it (maybe a question about homosexual tantra) that I missed?
- Mike
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 14:57:56 +0200 From: "Visic"
To: Subject: Re:guys
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01BD13A0.FB19A960"
Hi all :) The only reason that gays might be unhappy is because they can't walk on the street and hold hands without the probability of being gay-bashed (some ppl think this is the cure). With people constantly looking towards scientific figures like psychologists for the 'right' answer. I am gay and Im quite happy sure it took a while to accept myself but I wouldn't change myself. This is who I chose to be this lifetime and I must say without being gay I wouldnt have learnt some things which I now find invaluable emotional experiences.There is no curing homosexuality unless it was caused by abuse of a same sex parent. Which sometimes can cause homosexuality. I believe its in the genetics of a person. Dont know where I read this but there was a experiment with a group of high population rats and some of the rats became homosexual. So could gays be a sort of altruistic population control device? Love is love is love is love. No matter between who and what genders it is formed. Why can't we just accept people as they are? In different shapes,sizes,sexual orientation whatever. It takes alot of energy to hate why not use it to love instead and change this earth into the jewel of the universe that it is.
In Love and Light
Ivo Visic
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kundal64" Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 13:14:49 -0200
From: "Larry Schmitz" To:
Subject: RE: Guys Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hey Group!!!
I am using my parent's computer, since I am here in Brasil in a visit from the U.S.. I have been reading some of your group discussions and they seem
to be pretty interesting. This one, I have read a couple of things that somewhat, disturb me.
First of all, why do people care about who is gay? Are they bothering you?
Some of my best friends are gay...my girlfriend and I go to a gay bar all the time. They don't have some disease you can catch from the air that will
make you gay.
Why is it that people seem to be so worried about gay people? For the most part they don't make advances towards heterosexuals (and if they do, most
likely they will ask if you are gay...if you tell them "no," they will leave you alone). Here we have all these people who harass the opposite sex (and
even get very violent with them...as in cases of rape), we have people who have sex with animals, and all the people with different fetishes...why is
it that they are not bashed as the gay people are?
My theory on people no liking gays is...if you don't want to look at it, turn your head the other way.
Peace and Tchau,
Larry
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 08:53:56 PST From: "Gloria Lee"
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Guys??/Gays
Message-ID:
This appears to be another *planted flame*...BUT, I suppose if this
person sending it to the list may possibly be sincerely questioning this article or issue...one may as well answer it. Back in the early dark
ages of psychology, there were some experiments at "curing" what was later determined to be a non-existent illness. Homosexuality is NOT
considered a disorder in the DSMIII or IV. Gays, just like the rest of us, may suffer from any of the other recognized psychological problems
that ARE known. This idea presented of multiple personality is REALLY out there in La La Land...to use my best "professional terminolgy". From
what is understood of multiple personality...extreme abuse and horror is usually required to cause the disassociation and splitting off that
develops into MPD. To suggest that most gay people are actually MPD's..is so ridiculous...its as rare a disorder as the supposed
psychologist who esposes this wierd viewpoint. This is not mainstream thinking..which is not to defend the establishment point of view on
everything...the average psychologist may be clueless about Kundalini.. however, one may expect them to be a bit more open-minded than the
average person on the street. The real wonder to me is how healthy and happy most gays manage to be, considering the usual misunderstanding and
mistreatment they are given in society. PS..Why am I having deja vue as I end this?? Gloria LEE
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 09:22:07 -0800
From: Tantrika To: "Gloria Lee" , Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Guys??/Gays Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:53 AM 12/28/97 PST, Gloria Lee wrote: >This appears to be another *planted flame*...BUT, I suppose if this
>person sending it to the list may possibly be sincerely questioning this >article or issue...one may as well answer it. Back in the early dark
>ages of psychology, there were some experiments at "curing" what was >later determined to be a non-existent illness. Homosexuality is NOT
>considered a disorder in the DSMIII or IV.
Thank you Gloria, that is what I was going to say but I'm researching into it because someone told me it is classified under paraphilia and I'm not so
sure so wanted to do some checking first. Do you know anything about this? Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 09:26:08 -0800
From: Tantrika To: Tantrika , "Gloria Lee" ,
Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Guys??/Gays
Message-Id:
Never mind I just found out:
http://www.mhsource.com/edu/psytimes/p960627.html
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 10:39:24 +0100 From: Gloria Greco
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: [Fwd: Proof]
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7D4E3B6B707A"
For those of you still interested in this conversation on kundalini from
Gene...if not delete now. --
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/ &
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/ Hope you enjoy them!
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From: Gene Kieffer Subject: Proof
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Dear Viviane and Peggy,
Your email regarding possible ways to scientifically verify the existence
of Kundalini was most welcome. It was my great desire to spark interest in this all-important challenge, because once the mind dwells on scientific proof,
it cannot slump back to its former complacency.
Yes, any scientific investigation should definitely include scientists who will themselves undertake the practice of Yoga. But before we comment on
your other excellent suggestions, we would first like to bring up the problem of
verifying human evolution.
At the moment, Stephen Hawking and other theoretical physicists feel they are edging towards a solution to "Creation," as they try to
resolve the question of the Big Bang. A lot of media attention is given to the Big Bang and we often wonder why? Is it just another example of
throwing dust in the eyes of the crowds, or is it only to divert our attention away from the more important issues that science is unwilling
to face up to?
Does anyone agree with me when I suggest that the most important scientific question facing the human race is: "How does evolution work
in the human organism and can it be accelerated?"
If we all agree that the human brain is still in a state of organic evolution, and if we all agree to shun the worn-out, or should we say
hackneyed, phrase, "Cultural evolution"—a diversionary tactic--then we have little else left to talk about other than the brain itself.
So can we agree tehat the humanm brain is still evolving?
If it is, then there must be a biological mechanism responsible for
this evolution. If we cannot agree to designate Kundalini as this mechanism. then can we possibly think of another name for it?
If Kundalini is not the evolutionary mechanism responsible for the
brain´s evolution, can anyone suggest offer some other "mechanism?"
For the sake of discussion, then, can we then assume for a moment that Kundalini IS mechanism responsible for the brain´s evolution.
It is true that many of us like to think of Shaktipat as something of
extraordinary value almost akin to the miracle of birth itself. The Godmen of India, and elsewhere, who can bestow Shaktipat on their chelas or
disciples are therefore justifiable revered.
If they can cause the human organism—i.e., the brain, the nervous system, the vital organs—to actually undergo a biological change, then yes, by
all means, scientists should definitely find these gurus and enlist their help in this endeavor.
These same gurus, the ones who can bestow Shaktipat and activate the
evolutionary mechanism in their followers, should also be able raise those same followers from ordinary human beings to geniuses. Can there be any
question about that? It would seem to follow logically that IF Kundalini is the evolutionary mechanism, and if Shaktipat can activate this mechanism, then
there ought to be many thousands of new geniuses in America and Europe, because many hundreds of thousands of ordinary men and women have had their
Kundalini activated by Shaktipat. Of course, not all of these will become geniuses.
If we could advertise widely for these newly created geniuses to come
forward to give their testimony, that would be extremely helpful in convincing science of the tremendous value of Shaktipat and of Kundalini.
I am well aware that there are a great many Kundalini people who do
not believe that Kundalini is the evolutionary mechanism. Nor do they believe that Kundalini can raise an ordinary person to the level of a genius.
These disbelievers have every right to disbelieve. I am not arguing that point. This is a free country; nobody should have to believe anything he/she
does do not wish to believe.
That is why it would seem to be a good idea to scientifically verify the existence of Kundalini find out once and for all whether or not She can lead
to genius and Transcendence. Many people who do believe in Kundalini also believe that She can bestow Transcendence (though not genius).
The word transcendence implies something specific, namely that the human
mind has been transcended. Most geniuses are born that way. But those in whom Kundalini is activated can "Transcend" the normal limits of the mind
and rise even above the level of genius.
I think it would be helpful to dwell on these issues of Transcendence and Genius and how they relate to those in whom Kundalini has been awakened,
either by the grace of a guru, by the Grace of God, or by whatever other Grace there is.
Just a passing thought, but many schizophrenics exhibit signs of genius.
For that matter, even some of our most beloved gurus have exhibited signs of schizophrenia and eccentricity. All these things should figure into our
thinking as we contemplate the nature of Transcendence and its relationship to the brain and nervous system For the expression of a transcendent state
of Consciousness a highly developed body, a superior nervous system and brain are the prerequisites demanded by nature to effect the transformation.
This is a nutshell is the message of the Tantras and all the ancient
treatises dealing with Kundalini. This is the aim and object of every form of Yoga, and every religious discipline. The ultimate target of every
occult or religious practice is to bring the mind in tune with Cosmic Consciousness or the Infinite Universe of Life, hidden from the normal mind.
Supernormal psychic gifts, enhanced intellectual caliber, and literary talents invariably attend the crowing stages of the metamorphoses brought
about by Kundalini.
From the various comments on Urdhava-retas just recently received, it is clear that this phenomenon is not what is generally meant by the sublimation
of sexual energy. Many of the books cited by some of the K-people as explicitly referring to Urdhava-retas in actual fact only refer to
sublimation. Those who actually experience Urdhava-retas in its real sense know what it is and that it is not mere sublimation.
The book PANCHASTAVI (written by an anonymous Rishi about 1,000 years ago
in Kashmir), refers to genius bestowed by Kundalini in several passages, including this one:
"O Saraswati (Kundalini as the Goddess of learning), verily there pours
out from the lotus mouths of those devotees who contemplate thy entrancing resplendence, spotless like unto a heap of white lotuses, irradiating the
brain and dwelling in the forehead, akin to a stream of ambrosia, an uninterrupted flow of words, clear and full of deep meaning, like the
simmering, wavy luster of the milky way."
Can there be any branch of knowledge as deserving of the serious attention of scholars and scientists as that which can show the way to the
cultivation of this, i.e., one of the most precious ornaments of the human mind?
Shankaracharya, considered to be the author of Ananda-Lahari, devotes six
verses out of a total of 41, to Kundalini as the bestower of knowledge, intellectual preeminence and literary talent.
In the Sat-Cakra-Nirupan, quoted by Arthur Avalon in "The Serpent Power,"
there are no less than 10 verses the refer in unequivocal terms to the development of surpassing intellectual powers and literary talents in the
Yogi who successfully awakens Kundalini. "She (the Goddess Kundalini) is extremely subtle; the awakener of pure knowledge; the embodiment of all
bliss, whose true nature is pure Consciousness. . . . She is the carrier of the revelation of the ever-pure intelligence. . . . She produces melodious
poetry and Bandha and all other compositions in prose or verse in sequence or otherwise in Samskrta, Prakrta and other languages. . . . A man becomes
Lord of speech and king among men, and an Adept in all kinds of learning." Etc.
A man or woman in whom Kundalini has flooded the brain can quite easily become a polymath. If the K-list would concentrate its attention on the
possibilities of Transcendence and Genius, it would not be too long before scholars and scientists begin talking about the possibilities of scientific
verification.
Then once the knowledge of Kundalini becomes universal and is taught in all of our institutions of higher learning, it will quickly spread to the
masses and become a part of the curriculums in even our grade schools. The K-list is at the forefront of this knowledge.
Sincerely,
gene
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 10:42:42 +0100
From: Gloria Greco To: Visic
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: guys
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Visic wrote: >
> Hi all :) > The only reason that gays might be unhappy is because they can't walk
> on the street and hold hands without the probability of being > gay-bashed (some ppl think this is the cure). With people constantly
> looking towards scientific figures like psychologists for the 'right' > answer. I am gay and Im quite happy sure it took a while to accept
> myself but I wouldn't change myself. This is who I chose to be this > lifetime and I must say without being gay I wouldnt have learnt some
> things which I now find invaluable emotional experiences.There is no > curing homosexuality unless it was caused by abuse of a same sex
> parent. Which sometimes can cause homosexuality. I believe its in the > genetics of a person. Dont know where I read this but there was a
> experiment with a group of high population rats and some of the rats > became homosexual. So could gays be a sort of altruistic population
> control device? Love is love is love is love. No matter between who > and what genders it is formed. Why can't we just accept people as they
> are? In different shapes,sizes,sexual orientation whatever. It takes > alot of energy to hate why not use it to love instead and change this
> earth into the jewel of the universe that it is. >
> In Love and Light > Ivo Visic
Don't worry it is not an issue here. Gloria
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/ &
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/ Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 10:46:07 +0100 From: Gloria Greco
To: Mike Stickles CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Guys Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hey folks, somebody just pushed a button, just let it go. Gloria
Mike Stickles wrote: >
> Tantrika wrote: > > I'm perplexed as to how someone on this
> > list could have such a bigotted and biased attitude > > about a natural tendency that all living creatures
> > have. >
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 11:41:17 PST From: "Tom S"
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: ReGuys ??Gays
Message-ID:
People who dislike Homosexuals are people programmed to hate ,mostly
because of there belief systems. Tom S
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 20:45:30 -0600
From: Charles Michael Beaver To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: unsubscribe Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
unsubscribe yodaATnospamband1.bandwidth.net
tried this the way it is SUPPOSED to be done.
it didn't seem to succeeed. it worked on all the other lists
i wonder why it didn't on this one must be the K
Sincerely;
Mike Beaver yodaATnospamband1.bandwidth.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET ICQ. It's a great peer to peer (direct) communications package that lets you
talk directly to people. My # is 2994374. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checkout Mike Beaver's Hypnotherapy Home Page at http://www.bandwidth.net/yoda
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 12:42:57 -0800 From: iri
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Book of Psalms
Message-Id:
Also in Psalm 98 it mentions the mountains shouting with joy (or to that effect)
Is this a prediction of Volcanic Eruptions? So will 1998 be a year of Floods and Volcanoes?
DISCLAIMER!
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