1997/12/22 18:55
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #853
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 853
Today's Topics:
Female Urddhvaretas [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Winter Solstice [ MsSheWolf <MsSheWolfATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Female Urddhvaretas [ freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net> ]
Re: Urdhava-retas [ "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.e ]
Re: Urdhava-retas [ Tantrika <hummer13ATnospamearthlink.net> ]
Re: Female Urddhvaretas [ "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.e ]
Kundalini bleedings (wasRe: kundalin [ Bohemial <BohemialATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Urdhava-retas [ mraft <at3ATnospamearthlink.net> ]
Re: Urdhava-retas [ freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net> ]
Re: Urdhava-retas/opps [ freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net> ]
Re: Twin Flames [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
RE: Hi, I'm new... [ Paul Fallon <pawlATnospamfirstnet.co.uk> ]
Re: Urdhava-retas/opps [ Tantrika <hummer13ATnospamearthlink.net> ]
[CHAT] Emotional people [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
Snowcrash [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
Re: Snowcrash - Twin Flames [ sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack) ]
Re: Urdhava-retas/opps [ sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack) ]
Testing.. _X-mas is Pagan.. [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistres ]
Re: Urdhava-retas [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:37:13 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Female Urddhvaretas
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971222080856.18315A-100000ATnospamuhunix4>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
It seems there is a mystery in the ancient texts about women an their
biological changes from the K. I am female and had my experiences which
seem to be very similar to the male accounts... except there is no
physical "semen" per se as Don had.. that goes up into the shushumna.
I have a very hard time believing that the physical semen goes into the
shushumna as the K. energy is pure light... and science has a hard enough
time with finding the chi currents for acupuncture, let alone trying to
find this.. the idea of science finding such a thing at this stage seems
comic. However, if they can get instruments to detect subtle energies
there may be some possibility of finding changes. I would highly doubt any
physical symptoms as Don proposes.
In my experiences of this upward movement of K., I
would feel intense arousal, and felt strong need to relieve
this, but it would seem to come while meditating.. so I just remained in
my posture (asan) and then I would feel it like a little silver snake of
bliss, moving upwards and suffusing my whole being with rapture. Thus I
could stay in meditation for hours it seems, savoring this wonderful
state. I was able to actually detect its upward movement and I
would emerge intoxicated with trouble keeping my eyes from rolling upwards
into my head. I know some yoginis would completely stop their menstrual
cycles when they got the K. awaken. My cycles were definitely disturbed
by the K. the more this upward movement, the more irregular they became.
I wonder if there isany account of the female's changes in any books. It
seemed to me that the yoginis who stopped their cycles completely, were
able to sustain their advanced states of awareness ONLY as long as their
menstruation was stopped.. but when the menses came back, they just seemed
to be like other people..
There was definitely a pull upwards very
strongly that I felt... I know one thing too, I was not interested in
having any more children after this happened to me..and up until then,
that had been a biological need I had felt quite strongly.
I have seen several accountsof the fact that women do not have the same
expenditure of life-force in this process as men do, but the texts always
say "It is different in women." and that is that. I am venturing to
propose that it is in the ripening of a new egg each month that the energy
is taken for the upward movement of K.
This will not stop menstruation, but does disturb the cycle. Any
comments?
*****
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:37:50 EST
From: MsSheWolf <MsSheWolfATnospamaol.com>
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Winter Solstice
Message-ID: <28d065cb.349eb381ATnospamaol.com>
Here're some thoughts to take with us as we follow the lead of dear Great
Mother Earth as She turns her energies inward. It's easy to love the light.
Let us explore being grateful for the darkness.
Deep love,
Cher
THE FIVE FREEDOMS
To see and hear
what is here
instead of what should be,
was, or will be.
To say
what one feels,
instead of what one should.
To feel
what one feels,
instead of what one ought.
To ask
for what one wants,
instead of always waiting
for permission.
To take risks
in one's own behalf,
instead of choosing to be
only "secure",
and rocking the boat.
(this was hand written on a piece of paper taped to the wall of a healing
school classroom, source unknown)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:06:18 -0800
From: freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net>
To: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Female Urddhvaretas
Message-ID: <349EBA2A.5CC8ATnospamblarg.net>
Ruth writes:
<snip>
> I have seen several accounts of the fact that women do not have the same
> expenditure of life-force in this process as men do, but the texts always
> say "It is different in women." and that is that. I am venturing to
> propose that it is in the ripening of a new egg each month that the energy
> is taken for the upward movement of K.
> This will not stop menstruation, but does disturb the cycle. Any
> comments?
Freda here:
Oh my goodness!! Well here is a puzzle.
I was 32 when I had a hysterectomy, only partial however [my ovaries
were left intact so I do not require hormone replacement treatments] It
was soon after this surgery that I developed breast cancer. I was fed
up!! I refused treatment and had resigned myself to just dying -
I of course did not die and that is another story, which ends happily
becasue I learned to love who I was even if I were a woman!
Back to my ponderings....
I was almost 33 when I first began experiencing K. Could this be BECAUSE
I was no longer feeling like I needed to produce children? I know I felt
no loss of that particuar chore, I had four daughters already and my
husband had sworn he would try until he had a son! (as a side note: I
beleive I GAVE myself cancer in order to die, and once I realized this,
and changed my attitude~the breast cancer WENT AWAY without treatment.
Yes, I saw more than one doctor to diagnois both the cancer AND its
healing!)
I am rambling here... but I wonder, was it K that lead me to heal
myself? I know that my life has never been the same in other ways sence
my MIND and BODY took off on its own quest! Could the freedom from
childbearing and the new found love of self that activated the K
experience?
questioning.... and wondering..
..freda..
BE-IS-AM ...manifesting again...
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/01rg/hm/frhm.htm
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:25:34 -0500
From: "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
To: mraft <at3ATnospamearthlink.net>
Cc: "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>, lodpressATnospamintercomm.com,
Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>, trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu,
heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Urdhava-retas
Message-Id: <349ECCBE.4BD4ATnospamacad.bryant.edu>
Dear Mike,
This a very complex question and I could write volumes on it. However, I
have addressed some of these issues in my short paper on Kundalini and
Tantra which is on the Web at the Kundalini-l list homepage website
(European mirror site). The URL for that paper has been given several
times on this list and many people have read the paper.
Harsha
mraft wrote:
>
> Harsha said:
> > Having said all this, I assure you that the concept of Urdhva Retas
> > pre-dates Gopi Krishna by several thousand years. It is a natural
> > process experienced by individuals on the spiritual path.
>
> Dear Harsha,
>
> Do you then concur that celibacy is a requirement for this process to occur?
> Or can one do both, meditation and sexual practices?
>
> Mike
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:54:08 -0800
From: Tantrika <hummer13ATnospamearthlink.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Urdhava-retas
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971222115359.0087b100ATnospamearthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
hmmm would someone please direct me to an URL that explains the
urdhava-retas, I'm new and am rather lost....
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:52:49 -0500
From: "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
To: fredaATnospamblarg.net
Cc: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Female Urddhvaretas
Message-Id: <349ED321.159EATnospamacad.bryant.edu>
Dear Freda and Ruth:
The Ancient and Modern Kundalini literature (up to 1950s) is mostly
silent on Female processes. This is a great tragedy and reveals sexism
which has absolutely no place in spirituality. The fact is that there
have been many great women saints and Yoginis. One of the Jain
Tirthankaras (their major Saints) was a female and she was reputed to be
Omniscient like all other male Tirthankras. I continue to think that an
overemphasis on the physical manifestations of Shakti misses the real
point of its nature which is that of consciousness.
By the way, I forgot to mention that my paper on Kundalini and Tantra is
also on Freda's and perhaps Ori's home page (maybe not on Ori's as she
may have linked with Frans). I wish to express gratitude to Frans, Freda
and Ori for their help.
Harsha
> Ruth writes:
> <snip>
> > I have seen several accounts of the fact that women do not have the same
> > expenditure of life-force in this process as men do, but the texts always
> > say "It is different in women." and that is that. I am venturing to
> > propose that it is in the ripening of a new egg each month that the energy
> > is taken for the upward movement of K.
> > This will not stop menstruation, but does disturb the cycle. Any
> > comments?
>
> Freda here:
> Oh my goodness!! Well here is a puzzle.
> I was 32 when I had a hysterectomy, only partial however [my ovaries
> were left intact so I do not require hormone replacement treatments] It
> was soon after this surgery that I developed breast cancer. I was fed
> up!! I refused treatment and had resigned myself to just dying -
> I of course did not die and that is another story, which ends happily
> becasue I learned to love who I was even if I were a woman!
> Back to my ponderings....
> I was almost 33 when I first began experiencing K. Could this be BECAUSE
> I was no longer feeling like I needed to produce children? I know I felt
> no loss of that particuar chore, I had four daughters already and my
> husband had sworn he would try until he had a son! (as a side note: I
> beleive I GAVE myself cancer in order to die, and once I realized this,
> and changed my attitude~the breast cancer WENT AWAY without treatment.
> Yes, I saw more than one doctor to diagnois both the cancer AND its
> healing!)
> I am rambling here... but I wonder, was it K that lead me to heal
> myself? I know that my life has never been the same in other ways sence
> my MIND and BODY took off on its own quest! Could the freedom from
> childbearing and the new found love of self that activated the K
> experience?
>
> questioning.... and wondering..
> ..freda..
> BE-IS-AM ...manifesting again...
> http://www.blarg.net/~freda/01rg/hm/frhm.htm
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:56:39 EST
From: Bohemial <BohemialATnospamaol.com>
To: berryATnospamcnwl.igs.net, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Cc: BohemialATnospamaol.com
Subject: Kundalini bleedings (wasRe: kundalini)
Message-ID: <4b06720b.349ec5f9ATnospamaol.com>
Hello,
I was wondering if any of you throughout your every day lives have random
kundalini stirings -- like in the middle of a psychology lecture or something
as odd. It's kind of normal for me now.
And Is it detrimental to leave kundalini in any one specific chakra ? I have
the
tendency to leave her in my crown chakra. I am also aware that once Shakti
and Shiva are united in the crown, that Shiva should be called down back to
earth -- for healing among other things. I would be interested in reading
about
kundalini healings.
Another thing too, this may sound very strange. But I was brushing up on some
alchemic texts when I read that " Bleeding out of the anus is a symptom of
the awakened kundalini. I have had a few occurences of this. I am not being
the least bit funny. This really happened -- and I am in great shape and I
consider
myself a pretty healthy guy.
Any body with similar experiences please speak up. There is a great book
out called " Kundalini, Psychosis or Trancendence " which really helped me
in a time of questioning.
peace,
Bohemial
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:08:26 -0800
From: mraft <at3ATnospamearthlink.net>
To: Tantrika <hummer13ATnospamearthlink.net>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Urdhava-retas
Message-ID: <349EC8BB.A67E8FE4ATnospamearthlink.net>
Tantrika wrote:
>
> hmmm would someone please direct me to an URL that explains the
> urdhava-retas, I'm new and am rather lost....
Yes, could someone please send the URL for explaination on the urdhava-retas,
particularly Harsha's paper.
Thank you,
Mike
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:11:38 -0800
From: freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net>
To: mraft <at3ATnospamearthlink.net>
CC: Tantrika <hummer13ATnospamearthlink.net>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Urdhava-retas
Message-ID: <349EC97A.43ABATnospamblarg.net>
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/(c)/hm/harsh.htm
--
..freda..
BE-IS-AM ...manifesting again...
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/01rg/hm/frhm.htm
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:13:55 -0800
From: freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net>
To: mraft <at3ATnospamearthlink.net>, Tantrika <hummer13ATnospamearthlink.net>,
kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Urdhava-retas/opps
Message-ID: <349ECA03.2938ATnospamblarg.net>
sorry hit the wrong button:
Harsha's paper can be found at:
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/(c)/hm/harsh.htm
you might want to copy and paste it yourself into the brower
as the whole thing isn't linking from my mail program.
--
..freda..
BE-IS-AM ...manifesting again...
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/01rg/hm/frhm.htm
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:32:40 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Twin Flames
Message-ID: <1329321350-15620927ATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The Lesser Half wrote:
<many snips>
>Twin recognition may also be subtle and slow. A dawning of awareness
>as the veil is gently lifted.
>... patience may be necessary for the
>one who sees first.
>
>You may be awakenened... by a look,
>...by the touch of his
>hands or ... and your soul is jolted back to life.
This is the way it was for me and my second husband. He recognized me
first. He told me he loved me on, like, our second date. Yikes! There was a
total "veil" on my side. After awhile, I started liking him as a friend.
The first time we hugged, he said he felt an overwhelming glow of light and
warmth and energy, like when the alien woman hugged the human man in the
movie "Cocoon".
Then one day we were watching a cult film and laughing uproariously in a
room full of other people (my future in-laws) who were "not getting the
joke." He reached over and patted my hand. I looked over at him and saw the
twinkle in his eyes, and realized suddenly that I loved him!
I am so thankfull that he had the patience to wait for me.
The point being that I hope those of you questioning this concept do not
expect that it will always be that "meeting a stranger's eyes across a
crowded room" thing. Sometimes it's the "guy/gal next door" who's just
hoping that some day you will look his/her way and recognize what he/she
already knows.
apologies for being "behind the curve" on this thread,
amckeon
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 20:33:22 -0000
From: Paul Fallon <pawlATnospamfirstnet.co.uk>
To: "'Tantrika'" <hummer13ATnospamearthlink.net>,
"kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com"
<kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: Hi, I'm new...
Message-ID: <01BD0F18.E671EEA0ATnospamghost4.legend.co.uk>
Hi Joy, nice to have you on the list.
I think that you will enjoy the companionship provided here. I find it hard to keep up with (I mean respond to) the volume of mail, but again and again the best and - sometimes the seldom discussed and least used - values in me are reaffirmed.
I'm Paul, 33, from UK. Hello....
Bye....
not end[PARA][PARA]pawlATnospamfirstnet.co.uk not even beginning end[PARA][PARA]tel 0113 225 9374 end of beginning?[PARA][PARA]5 norville tce, leeds[PARA]LS6 1BS, UK
-----Original Message-----
From: Tantrika [SMTP:hummer13ATnospamearthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, December 22, 1997 6:58 AM
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Hi, I'm new...
Hi my name is Joy Williams and i'm just recently having the kundalini
energy not exactly *awaken* for the first time, but rather energized to a
degree that I've not encountered before.
I'm 35, living in Santa Cruz, CA. I really can't say when I first became
aware of the energy....it's been something i've felt off and on all my
life, but didn't have a name for. However this experience happened about 3
weeks ago when a lover was visiting me and we went on a trip up the coast
and during intense lovemaking it was energized in such a way that literally
stunned me. (and no I hadn't planned on it) Since then I've been feeling
it course through my body at various times and it's filled me with
awareness, much deeper intuitive abilities, and I lost 15 lbs though my
eating patterns haven't changed. I'm also riding a course of LOVE, which
seems to keep it stimulated immensely. The relationship I had with that
lover had been before then relatively relaxed and playful, but something
happened during the trip and our relationship deepened to a degree I
haven't experienced in a long while, nor was expecting it to.
As to practices that are useful I'm just learning, thus I'm here.
I am involved in service to the Earth/Gaia.
I am hoping to get out of this list insights and understandings of this
tremendously powerful energy.
Thanks for hearing me and happy Yule.
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:39:47 -0800
From: Tantrika <hummer13ATnospamearthlink.net>
To: fredaATnospamblarg.net, mraft <at3ATnospamearthlink.net>,
Tantrika <hummer13ATnospamearthlink.net>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Urdhava-retas/opps
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971222123936.008b9210ATnospamearthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
ok got it, read it, in the process of grokking it but nowhere describe what
urdhava-retas means....I don't even see that in the text anywhere...what am
i missing here?
Also I'm bound to apart from my lover that revitalized my shakti, he's on
the East Coast, I the west, though I have a loving husband as well, and we
are practicing some tantric techniques (going slow though) -- don't worry
this relationship is open and honest. what are some suggestions for
keeping the Kundalini vital but not so overpowering as it seem to have been
lately! It's really amazing!
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:48:32 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: [CHAT] Emotional people
Message-ID: <1329316789-15894474ATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Blythe wrote:
<snipped>
>Every person who approached to watch or speak or question,
>approached in a cloud of emotions. Then one person came up to me, and other
>than a sense of underlying hapiness, all he had around him were images of
>the things he spoke about: giraffes and acacia trees and cryptogramic soils
>and ants and moonlight. It was so incredibly refreshing...
I suspect that you were in a place where you were able to experience this.
In other words, your own emotions weren't being projected all over the
place, either.
This has never happened to me. As often as I like to think that I am not an
emotional person, I realize that my definition of an emotional person is
"one who cries easily," which is not the same thing (all of you can say
"duh" now). There is too often a passion and force behind my communications
that may get in the way of the messages being sent and received. Your post
itself was refreshing. Something new to think about (which is more fun than
feeling, any day :).
thanks,
amckeon
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 15:48:38 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Snowcrash
Message-ID: <1329316783-15894858ATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jack recommmended "Snowcrash" by Neal Stephenson as a source for
substantiating the history of female-based religion. Guess I don't remember
that part of it very well; it's been a couple of years since I've read it.
BUT, it is a most *excellent* novel, and a very enjoyable read. One of my
favorite books of all time. The author's style is humorous and fast-paced.
You will not be bored!
JMHO,
amckeon
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:20:44 GMT
From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
To: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Snowcrash - Twin Flames
Message-ID: <34b2e7ba.21167152ATnospammailhost.worldnet.att.net>
Jack recommmended "Snowcrash" by Neal Stephenson as a source for
substantiating the history of female-based religion
A slight correction. It was while reading this novel that I found the
other non-fiction works on the subject. " Snowcrash " spurred me to
further research.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
like when the alien woman hugged the human man in the
movie "Cocoon".
This is the exact reference I got when I realized my twin for the
first time. It was the only analogy I could come up with that came
close to describing the experience. This was from a photograph
however. I've never met my twin " in person ".
Jack
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:20:39 GMT
From: sassiATnospamworldnet.att.net (Jack)
To: Tantrika <hummer13ATnospamearthlink.net>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Urdhava-retas/opps
Message-ID: <34b1e7b3.21160108ATnospammailhost.worldnet.att.net>
Heres a reference http://www.blarg.net/~freda/01rg/hm/frhm.htm
BTW I find your user name and email address hysterical. Is this on
purpose ?
Jack
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:51:42
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Testing.. _X-mas is Pagan..
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971222165142.39c778acATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Went to a wonderful solstice celebration this weekend.. the carolers sang
a very funny song I thought I'd share, since I need to send a test post to
check the bounce files anyway..
Christmas Time is Pagan.
(sung to the tune of "Angels We Have Heard on High.)
Christmas time is here again.
Decorations everywhere.
Christmas carols ringing out.
Gentle Pagans, we don't care.
Chorus: Glorious!
Christmas Time is Pagan.
Glorious!
Christmas Time is Pagan.
Let them have their Christams trees,
Decked with red and green and blue..
We rejoice at every one.
Christmas trees are pagan too.
Chorus:
Glorious!
Christmas Time is Pagan.
Glorious!
Christmas Time is Pagan.
Bowls of bubbly christmas cheer,
fill your cup and quench your thirst.
they think the tradition's theris:
Wassail bowls were Pagan first.
Chorus
Every door and window bears
Wreaths of Holly, Wreaths of pine.
Circles represent the Sun,
Every wreath is Yours and Mine.
Chorus
Christmas lights on Christmas trees,
Candle flames burn higher and higher.
And we giggle joyfully
As they light their yuletide fire.
Chorus:
Glorious!
Christmas Time is Pagan.
Glorious!
Christmas Time is Pagan.
If you need more info, feel free to write to me at
kundalini-l-ownerATnospamexecpc.com
Love and electric blue K. fire, List Mystress.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Website <http://www.execpc.com/~libra/kund/kundgate.htm>
in europe <http://www.telebyte.nl/~frans/kundalini/>
To leave the list send a post with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject header to
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Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:58:27 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
cc: Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com,
kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Urdhava-retas
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971222083946.18315B-100000ATnospamuhunix4>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear List Gloria and Gene:
I am posting my reply to everyone as it has come to me through Gloria who
seems to be the middle man here between her list and the K.list and Gene.
I feel that there is some energy in this involvement Gloria which you are
producing that should make you ask, "Why am I fomenting this debate?"
Mr. Kieffer has already expressed his disdain and impatience to Harsha,
and now you would like him to turn his attentions to me.
I consider this a form of communicating "Through" others and inciting
people's emotions that is akin to something witches are prone to do.. i.e.
sending their energies through others to get revenge etc. but appear to be
innocent. There is a story of karma where a sadhu was accused of raping a
wife and he was innocent, but had his arm cut off. When he asked his guru
why did this happen, he found in a past life he had pointed the way for a
butcher to catch a cow and the cow had been slain....the wife wasthe cow
and the husband was the butcher in this life. I would say be careful of
what you are doing.
Mr. Gene writes to me:
> > You have written an interesting letter but it lacks specifics.
> > I have written many, many hundreds of words about Urdhava-retas,
> > etc., so I do not know to which words you are referring, specifically.
> > I think it would be educational to all concerned if you were to be
> > more specific. Please do us the courtesy to itemize your complaints
> > for the benefit of all. I would be very happy to respond to each
> > and every one.
There is one question I clearly asked and you have not chosen to answer it
very significantly. Have you yourself ever had the
Kundalini awaken in you? If you cannot answer this simply then there is
no point in writing more words. I wrote what I wrote. I do not have to do
anything for your pleasure or convenience. My letter was to Harsha, not
you. If you received a copy then
take this matter up with Gloria. I have no interest in feeding your mind
and your imagination. I have no interest in having what I know of the K.
to be used by you for your personal gain. You have insulted my teacher in
your letter, and thus haveput yourself into a category of persons with
whom I cannot debate, for just as you do not respect Harsha and
Muktananda, so I do not respect you for such opinions and attitudes. I am
shocked that someone who is leading this research would have so little
understanding of ethics and values, of humility and respect.
I have purchased your books and I shall now use them in my own book with
much reservation. For this your letter was enlightening. However, for
further interaction with you, it is not serving me to do this.
> > I used rather challenging language in writing to Dr. Luther because
> > he specifically stated that there are many books, etc., on Urdhava-
> > retas, and I wished very much to know the names of these books. I
> > have a fairly large library on Yoga, and I would like to add to it.
> > But if Dr. Luther does not provide the names of the books, authors,
> etc., I would have no way of finding them.
What you in your arrogance do not understand is that he does not have to
feed your mind any more than I do. He has no obligation to serve you.
> > It is obvious that you are knowledgeable about this subject, so
> > it would be valuable to me and those with whom I correspond if you
> > would be so kind as to add to our knowledge of Urdhava-retas. I
I do not have to share anything and will do so only as I choose.
I am not obliged to write nor share. If anything of my writing appears in
your books I shall be obliged to claim that you did not have the
permission of the author to use it. Imagine the "Goddess Kali" and think
of me!
Ruth
******
Love allows freedom. Drop the idea that attachment and love are the same
thing. They are enemies. It is attachment that destroys love. (Osho)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ruth Trimble email:<trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
http://166.122.32.61/trimble/
*****
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