1997/12/20 20:19
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #848
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 848
Today's Topics:
Re: Miscellaneous [ Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant ]
Re: Miscellaneous [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 20:49:16 -0800
From: Harsh Luthar <hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu>
To: lodpressATnospamintercomm.com
Cc: Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com,
kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Miscellaneous
Message-Id: <349C9FCC.693DATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu>
Gene Kieffer earlier wrote me a personal post with a copy going to Kurt
Keutzer. Ethically bound, I responded to that post only to him with a
copy going to Kurt. Later I received a note from Gloria Greco that Gene
had forwarded his post to me to Gloria (without my knowledge). However,
he did not forward my response to him to Gloria Greco. This is creating
some confusion. Perhaps he did not have time to do it. Gene should feel
free to distribute my response to the list. That would be the honest and
the courageous thing to do. There is no need for any secrecy.
Harsha
Gloria Greco wrote:
>
> Gene Kieffer wrote:
> >
> >
> > Therefore, I am simply copying what I wrote to him--unnamed--and if
> > you think it has any relevance to your K-list members, please pass it
> > on.
> > ----------------------------------
> >
> > Here, then, is my letter of Dec. 17, to the Buddhist:
> >
> > Dear Friend,
> >
> > Considering what you have written, we can now see yet another reason
> > why a scientific investigation of Kundalini would be beneficial to all
> > concerned. In my many decades of tracking this phenomenon, I have come
> > across a wide variance of opinions as to the efficacy of practices and
> > and the results they produce.
> >
> > If one has a strong interest--curiosity--in our point of view, the
> > book, KUNDALINI FOR THE NEW AGE, or the later edition, KUNDALINI--EMPOWERING
> > HUMAN EVOLUTION, gives a fairly thorough explanation of what happens and
> > why. And then, of course, there are more books. The point is that
> > achieving Illumination is more difficult and fraught with more hazards
> > than training for and actually walking on the moon.
> >
> > If Enlightenment, i.e., achieving spiritual genius, were relatively
> > easy, there would be hundreds of Illuminated men and women in the
> > United States. But so far as I am aware, not a single man or woman
> > has laid claim to such a state of consciousness over the past many
> > decades. Disciples of famous gurus, such as Swami Muktananda, are
> > quick to point to their Masters as Enlightened, but a study of their
> > lives, their rise and fall, their sins, crimes, passions and behavior,
> > all of which have been widely reported in the press and not once con-
> > tradicted, would lead us to believe that there has not been none.
> >
> > Be that as it may, when we consider what Illumination entails, it
> > is not difficult to imagine what must be accomplished by God or the
> > Divine Presence in order to transform an ordinary human being into
> > a genius in a single lifetime. The brain and nervous system must be
> > completely overhauled from within. The prana--Chi, Life-Energy, etc.,--
> > which is Super Intelligent, must set about to invade every cell of the
> > body and brain and raise it to a higher level of performance.
> >
> > It is now widely recognized that the brain of a genius is not the
> > same as the brain of an ordinary person. Imagine, then, what would
> > be required to transform an ordinary person into a spiritual genius,
> > which is one step higher on the ladder of evolution than that of a
> > genius. In the future, men and women who undergo such a transformation
> > will become polymaths, able to write and speak in many languages, paint,
> > compose music, become great physicists, etc.
> >
> > It has been said that if a dog were to awaken from sleep and find
> > itself in possession of the brain of a human being, it would almost
> > certainly go crazy. Suddenly it would be aware of not only being in
> > the home of its master, but in the city of Danbury, but more than
> > that, it would be in the county of such and such, in the state of
> > Connecticut, in the country of the United States, on the American
> > Continent, on the planet Earth, in the Solar System of the Milky
> > Way Galaxy. We could go on and on, but this is an accurate analogy
> > of what happens when a man or woman suddenly achieves Cosmic Consciousness.
> > It is such a tremendous leap in awareness that no one has ever been able
> > to describe it. The common term is "Neti, Neti," meaning it isn't like
> > this, nor is it like that. It is indescrible.
> >
> > Whenever a person describes his or her visionary experiences, we can
> > be certain that it is not Cosmic Consciousness. Why? Because Cosmic
> > Consciousness cannot be described. Yes, Gopi Krishna was able to describe
> > a great deal of what happened to him physically and emotionally. His
> > autobiography, KUNDALINI, THE EVOLUTIONARY ENERGY IN MAN, or the expanded
> > edition, LIVING WITH KUNDALINI, are now considered classics because of
> > his detailed descriptions of the Higher States of Consciosness, but still,
> > he could only express what he felt and observed.
> >
> > Just as it is essentially for a pilot of a boat or plane to know
> > precisely where he is attempting to go--his destination--so is it even
> > more important for the meditator to know as much as possible what he is
> > attempting to achieve. The first thing we are taught when we begin a
> > spiritual practice is that we must be wary of falling into self-delusion.
> > I am continually confronted by people who have visionary experiences.
> > Invariably they are caused by self-hypnosis. We chant mantras in order
> > to by-pass the objective mind, and often we then fall prey to delusionary
> > states which we take to be marks of success in our spiritual journey.
> >
> > Therefore, it is important to read the autobiographies of men and women
> > who have been accepted by highly respected and learned men and women as
> > those who have achieved genuine Enlightenment or Cosmic Consciousness.
> >
> > Enlightenment is no longer a precise word. It has come to be accepted
> > as anyone who has more or less awakened to religious or spiritual truths
> > and sentiments. Werner Erhard (EST) convinced hundreds of thousands of
> > young men and women two decades ago that taking his weekend intensives
> > invariably resulted in ones achieving enlightenment. But actually, these
> > people were coached into believing something that wasn't true.
> >
> > It really does not matter what ones religious predisposition might be
> > when it comes to Kundalini. Kundalini is a physical/spiritual organ implanted
> > in every human being. Proper preperation can definitely improve ones chances
> > of awakening Kundalini in a benign way so as to greatly lessen any possible
> > detrimental effects. It was common in India in the past that disciples
> > were first required to spend five years purifying themselves both mentally
> > and physically, to never tell a falsehood, to render selfless service,etc.
> > Then, after five years, the guru would allow the disciple to begin certain
> > meditation practices.
> >
> > Today, false gurus from India start the untutored and ill-prepared
> > public on meditation on their first visit to their ashrams. This is usually
> > done for money. Many of the gurus from India have contempt for Americans and
> > care nothing for their souls. But that's another story.
> >
> > What I have tried to do here is to present Enlightenment in a little
> > different light, that it is both a spiritual achievement and a physical
> > achievement. The other day as an experiment, I told a chat group on
> > the Internet to try to think of the best way science could set about
> > to verify the existence of Kundalini.
> >
> > Some in the group said it was impossible, that Kundalini was spiritual
> > and could never be verified. Few if any had ever thought that Kundalini
> > could lead to genius. Then one in the group asked me for my views.
> >
> > I said that the best and easiest way to verify the existence of
> > Kundalini was by observing the phenomenon of Urdhava-retas in one in whom
> > the Power had just been awakened in a forceful and full manner. I said
> > that the K.R.F. has been "preaching" this for thirty years, but so far
> > as we knew, not a single New Age writer has ever mentioned Urdhava-retas.
> >
> > Two days later, one in the group said that he had been waiting quitely
> > for such a statement to be made. Urdhava-retas is no secret, he said.
> > "It has been known in India for thousands of years. Every advanced student
> > of Yoga is told about Urdhava-retas, etc."
> >
> > I then said that all this was true, that every advanced student of Yoga
> > is told about Urdhava-retas, and that in India it has been well known
> > for thousands of years. Then I added. I will say something else: This
> > man who has just said that Urdhava-retas is well known should now
> > enlighten us by telling the group the name of one New Age writer, one
> > book, or one publisher, so that all of us can read about it for ourselves.
> > I then went on to say that this man would not be able to give the name
> > of a single book New Age book nor a single New Age author.
> >
> > Two days later, this same man came back on the Internet with a short
> > note that he had awakened Kundalini at the age of 6 and that he had
> > seen his future and his past. End of message. He did not offer the
> > name of a single writer or book that expounded on Urdhava-retas. But
> > he did seem to allude to the fact that he was from India.
> >
> > All I wish to say is that Urdhava-retas is not common. In all the
> > years that I've been corresponding with people about Kundalini, only
> > a few dozen have reported their experiences in this regard. The problem
> > is that when a person is not prepared for a forceful awakening, he or
> > she may be so driven by erotic desire as to indulge in sex to an
> > inordinate degree and thus risk insanity. You see, the brain then
> > demands the "nourishment" of the reproductive essences, and when the
> > person masturbates or has sexual intercourse, these essences are
> > not available.
> >
> > If psychiatrists would study the sexual behavior of schizophrenics and
> > manic-depressives committed to mental institutions, they would learn
> > a lot. But so far as I know, they have not done this.
> >
> > I have interviewed a number of schizophrenics and manic-depressives,
> > all of whom were at one time in mental institutions, and every one said
> > that they had never been quizzed about their sexual behavior. All of
> > them admitted to having masturbated to an inordinate degree. I do not
> > say that masturbation causes schizophrenia. It does not! I merely
> > point out that schizophrenics often deplete their reserves of sexual
> > energy, which contributes to their mental problem.
> >
> > Now you may ask, what does schizophrenia have to do with Enlightenment.
> > A lot. An enlightened person sees effulgent lights, hears celestial music,
> > sees heavenly scenes, etc., because the nerve energy feeding the brain is
> > pure. A schizophrenic hears maddening noise, sees agonizing light, and
> > terrifying scenes. The reason is because the latter's nerve energy is
> > impure. We talk about sins causing a blotch on the soul. Now think in
> > terms of "sins" being weaknesses and impurities in the blood, etc., and
> > you will begin to see how old-fashioned religious notions take on new
> > meaning when applied to Kundalini and Enlightenment.
> >
> > When I attended Catholic grade school, the nuns and priests told us that
> > masturbation caused insanity. This is not true, of course, but we can be
> > certain that during the period from the age of 8 to 25, one should be very
> > moderate in the frequency of masturbation. The reason is that in that period
> > the brain and nervous system is developing very rapidly and requires
> > that the reproductive system not be depleted of its essences. No studies
> > have been made, of course, but when they are made, they will show that
> > moderation in ones sexual practices, especially in those formative years
> > is of the utmost importance.
> >
> > Many of the people who have come to us because of difficulties with
> > Kundalini never heard of Kundalini before nor had they ever practiced
> > any form of meditation or spiritual discipline. One can awaken Kundalini
> > in many different ways. Concentration of any kind is the most effective
> > lever for activating the power. It all depends on ones predisposition.
> > If one is extremely bright, with high I.Q., and the child of parents
> > of similar mental qualities, high talent, genius, etc., and in possession
> > of other heridtary traits, etc., then there is very likelihood that extreme
> > concentration can bring about an awakening.
> >
> > When you read about sexual crimes, serial killers, geniuses--like
> > Truman Capote, etc.--try to look further into their lives and backgrounds.
> > Often you will find evidence to support all that we have said above.
> > A genius must be extremely regulated in his lifestyle in order to
> > avoid mental distress in later life. This is also true of mystics.
> >
> > Read the lives of great mystics and great geniuses and you will find
> > so much to corroborate everything that we say about Urdhava-retas and
> > mental illness. Example, Isaac Newton never consumated his marriage.
> > Why? Because he was a born genius with Urdhava-retas a normal part of
> > his life. He simply did not care about having sex. All of his sexual
> > energy was being transmuted from early on and being utilized by his
> > brain and nervous system. Other geniuses, perhaps even Picasso, may have
> > indulged in a lot of sexual activity. This is not a simple thing to
> > explain in a single email letter, but I would only say that our sexual
> > equipment is what Nature has provided to carry the race onward and
> > upward. It serves us in procreation and also in evolution to higher
> > states of consciousness.
> >
> > When scientific research is done, all this will be borne out and
> > humanity will set a new course for a future of infinite spiritual
> > and material progress. I hope this has helped to clarify some of
> > what we discussed earlier.
> >
> > All the best,
> > Gene
>
> --
>
> Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
> Gloria Joy Greco
> e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
> http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
> &
> http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
> Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 18:20:35 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: hlutharATnospamkeynes.bryant.edu
CC: Gene Kieffer <gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com>, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com,
kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Miscellaneous
Message-ID: <349BFE5F.3960ATnospamintercomm.com>
Gene Kieffer wrote:
> > >
> > > All I wish to say is that Urdhava-retas is not common. In all the
> > > years that I've been corresponding with people about Kundalini, only
> > > a few dozen have reported their experiences in this regard. The problem
> > > is that when a person is not prepared for a forceful awakening, he or
> > > she may be so driven by erotic desire as to indulge in sex to an
> > > inordinate degree and thus risk insanity. You see, the brain then
> > > demands the "nourishment" of the reproductive essences, and when the
> > > person masturbates or has sexual intercourse, these essences are
> > > not available.
Gloria:
I agree with what Gene wrote here, there is no doubt that kundalini and
Urdhava-retas is directly connected to sexual energy. When one has lived
with this experience for a life time as I have, I can look at different
periods of my life and could see how I was being prepared for this all
along. I do have Udhava-retas, it changes the frequency of the entire
body and is very different then kundalini by itself or even working with
Holy Spirit frequencies coming down from the crown. This literally moves
up from the second chakra and pretty much envelopes the body in waves
until it has purified everything, it also creates the silvery light in
the head and seems to change the frequency of the Crown energy
drastically.
I can't see how one could experience this if sexual energy had been
released in any form. I have told Gene I would add a chapter in my new
book on it, I had never had a name for it before and really couldn't
describe it to anyone. So, I'm glad that the discussion has come about
since as usual for me the experience comes first and then the name or
description comes later.
> > >
> > > If psychiatrists would study the sexual behavior of schizophrenics and
> > > manic-depressives committed to mental institutions, they would learn
> > > a lot. But so far as I know, they have not done this.
> > >
> > > I have interviewed a number of schizophrenics and manic-depressives,
> > > all of whom were at one time in mental institutions, and every one said
> > > that they had never been quizzed about their sexual behavior. All of
> > > them admitted to having masturbated to an inordinate degree. I do not
> > > say that masturbation causes schizophrenia. It does not! I merely
> > > point out that schizophrenics often deplete their reserves of sexual
> > > energy, which contributes to their mental problem.
> > >
> > > Now you may ask, what does schizophrenia have to do with Enlightenment.
> > > A lot. An enlightened person sees effulgent lights, hears celestial music,
> > > sees heavenly scenes, etc., because the nerve energy feeding the brain is
> > > pure. A schizophrenic hears maddening noise, sees agonizing light, and
> > > terrifying scenes. The reason is because the latter's nerve energy is
> > > impure. We talk about sins causing a blotch on the soul. Now think in
> > > terms of "sins" being weaknesses and impurities in the blood, etc., and
> > > you will begin to see how old-fashioned religious notions take on new
> > > meaning when applied to Kundalini and Enlightenment.
> > >
> > > When I attended Catholic grade school, the nuns and priests told us that
> > > masturbation caused insanity. This is not true, of course, but we can be
> > > certain that during the period from the age of 8 to 25, one should be very
> > > moderate in the frequency of masturbation. The reason is that in that period
> > > the brain and nervous system is developing very rapidly and requires
> > > that the reproductive system not be depleted of its essences. No studies
> > > have been made, of course, but when they are made, they will show that
> > > moderation in ones sexual practices, especially in those formative years
> > > is of the utmost importance.
> > >
> > > Many of the people who have come to us because of difficulties with
> > > Kundalini never heard of Kundalini before nor had they ever practiced
> > > any form of meditation or spiritual discipline. One can awaken Kundalini
> > > in many different ways. Concentration of any kind is the most effective
> > > lever for activating the power. It all depends on ones predisposition.
> > > If one is extremely bright, with high I.Q., and the child of parents
> > > of similar mental qualities, high talent, genius, etc., and in possession
> > > of other heridtary traits, etc., then there is very likelihood that extreme
> > > concentration can bring about an awakening.
> > >
> > > When you read about sexual crimes, serial killers, geniuses--like
> > > Truman Capote, etc.--try to look further into their lives and backgrounds.
> > > Often you will find evidence to support all that we have said above.
> > > A genius must be extremely regulated in his lifestyle in order to
> > > avoid mental distress in later life. This is also true of mystics.
> > >
> > > Read the lives of great mystics and great geniuses and you will find
> > > so much to corroborate everything that we say about Urdhava-retas and
> > > mental illness. Example, Isaac Newton never consumated his marriage.
> > > Why? Because he was a born genius with Urdhava-retas a normal part of
> > > his life. He simply did not care about having sex. All of his sexual
> > > energy was being transmuted from early on and being utilized by his
> > > brain and nervous system. Other geniuses, perhaps even Picasso, may have
> > > indulged in a lot of sexual activity. This is not a simple thing to
> > > explain in a single email letter, but I would only say that our sexual
> > > equipment is what Nature has provided to carry the race onward and
> > > upward. It serves us in procreation and also in evolution to higher
> > > states of consciousness.
> > >
> > > When scientific research is done, all this will be borne out and
> > > humanity will set a new course for a future of infinite spiritual
> > > and material progress. I hope this has helped to clarify some of
> > > what we discussed earlier.
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > > Gene
> >
> > --
> >
> > Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
> > Gloria Joy Greco
> > e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
> > http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
> > &
> > http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
> > Hope you enjoy them!
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.