1997/12/13 07:44
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #824
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 824
Today's Topics: Re: Emotional Plague [ valerian ]
Re: Unidentified subject! [ valerian ] RE: Bible slamming [ Richard Wentk ]
Re: Thirty Three [ Nancy ] Listen....... [ TDVW36AATnospamprodigy.com ( THOMAS SMITH) ]
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:32:00 -0800 From: valerian
To: Joseph Miller CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Emotional Plague Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> >>java joe: Have no fear logic is almost gone from modern society. Feelings rule! > >> May God have mercy on us.
> > >v: hey there! i finally found your post about the Nazis & all, & i must
> >comment that i find your constructs as to what feelings are to be very > >different from my own.
> > OK, what are feelings to you?
v: i must admit, as i bore even deeper into my personal insights, that
after nearly dying 3 times, still functioning with a 102-stitch concussion on the right side of my head, full hearing after having my
left ear torn off & sewn back on, & some faction of *thoracic outlet syndrome* after having been rear-ended recently by a speeding lumber
truck while pregnant, & 2 more consecutive but equally surprising rear-end collisions (in other words, chronic physical pain & overcoming
violent traumas, my good person), that i am now operating & healing myself by denying the *reality* of negative feelings. i do not even CARE
if they are *real* anymore; if i disbelieve in them, they stay away from me, & i have not had even one unfortunate fatality (for real, people
dying) or accident since my conscious mind *gave up* giving any credibility to negative feelings.
surround the corporate entity with *light* are not just more empty words...
to me, negativivity is a whole entire demonic *concept* to be denied validity in our waking behaviour. sure, negative thoughts occur, but
when one clings to & is totally dependent upon the *light*, more & more they are seen as illusions, rather like a mirage, or having night
blindness & *seeing things* from personal 'projections' one too many times til one just says, "ah...that can't be real..." & really really
*believing it*. i do not wish to give space & credibility to the negative in my life
anymore; there has simply been too much of it. along the lines when the very *real* negative emotion like a snake rears
it's ugly head in my lower chakras & attempts to elevate & take over my consciousness, the only thing one can do is to nip it ASAP.
i really do not think people who have indulged themselves in their *negative feelings* & gone on to commit major atrocities are proof of
the predominance of the existance of *negative feelings*. like mosquitos which may carry disease, the *negative feelings* are worthy to be
exterminated. in fact, i have to wonder that i give them the power of the written word
- i.e. - *negative feelings*. this only empowers their existance. it may be that they exist *now*, as they have all along, but i pray that
the more people that totally deny the existance of that very base level of awareness, & refuse to indulge themselves to entertain it, the less
power *negative feelings* will hold sway on the 'collective conscious' & a new level of definitions for *feelings* may be found worthy to be made
manifest. *let us pray...*
-- http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7982/index.html
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:55:20 -0800 From: valerian
To: Thumper CC: Kundalini Group
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> > v: i do not agree that the Nazis were operating from feelings,
> but the > >opposite thereof; a devious & calculating greed &
> self-righteousness > >which belies total lack of concern for others. if they had had
> any > >feelings of note, they could not have cold-heartedly &
> systematically > >been about mass genocide for the aryan superiority cause.
> >thumper: I disagree with this statement wholeheartedly. Humans, no matter
> who they are or what they are engaged in, can only manifest their > thoughts once they are "felt". We function by our 5 senses. We
> have a thought; that thought is felt; the feeling is created or > manifested in one way or another..
> What seemed cold-hearted & systematic was the manifestation of a > deeply felt desire. *I am purposely not getting into a discussion
> of my feelings around the history of the Nazi regime* A desire is > a feeling, whether we deem it moral or immoral.
v: thoughts manifest as *things*, whether *felt* or not. one can feel
*desire* & translate that *desire* in any way one wants, but in order to transcend to the next
level, one must choose NOT to indulge in any *negative thoughts*, & instead transmute those same *feelings* into a higher translation; if
only yearning & prayer for that higher level. mind over matter; it's simple!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When you're seeing things that are affecting not only people you know,
but people you DON'T know, & on a planetary scale...seeing things...it acts as an incredible responsibility, unless you try to go into denial,
which I did for a couple of years. But once you look at this, you have a choice.You can probably go into drinking or go into drugs...do whatever
you can to STOP these events." Gordon Michael Scallion Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:13:58 +0000
From: Richard Wentk To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: RE: Bible slamming Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:02 12/12/97 -1000, Ruth Trimble wrote:
>Keep your mind open... I knew few could accept it, but the more I have >contemplated this concept and had some very real experiences about it, the
>more I see it as a sort of oppressive regime... How could a God do things >like be jealous? The God that is the K. force in us.. could not have such
>ridiculous nature. What else would have such a nature?
Well, for me that particular old grouch was originally a personification of a certain rather crude form of tribal consciousness.
And still is for some people. :-)
(Actually I think the Bible is *really* just a publisher's plot to make
lots of money without having to pay any author's royalties. Hmmmm... :-) )
>Zechariah Sitchin is WELL known for his work on the early history of man. >His books are delegated to the UFO Wierdo.. type section at Borders..
>which is a crime, but when did a bookstore clerk know much! His texts >come in something called the Earth Chronicles.. and the best one to start
>with in my opinion is "12th Planet" about Nibiru. He has more about the >Bible but as you can tell that is not my thing.
Sitchin and Nibiru have been quite thoroughly torn to shreds in various
places. Personally I think his ideas are *very* flaky, and for me it makes no more sense to me to believe in them than it does to believe in the Bible
as the 'received word of God.' One's an ancient myth, the other is a modern myth. An interesting process, watching these myths happen... :-)
Yeah, there are books that support these ideas. There are books that
support the Bible too. The evidence for both looks scanty if you give it a thorough look.
Nibiru, for example, is an astronomical impossibility. Ain't no such
animal. If there were we'd have seen it by now. Sorry. :-)
Something similar goes for Mr Icke, by the way. I've met the guy, done some work with him, and know his former mentor. She used to live near here and
is not, I have to say, the most grounded person I've ever met. When that comet was slamming into Jupiter she was busy telling people round here that
they should wear dark glasses to 'avoid the negative vibrations.' Oh my! 'Nuff said, I think. :-)
While I think the earlier books were worthwhile, he seems to have lost the
plot in The Robot's Rebellion. Surely no one in their right mind takes that stuff about the Protocols of the Elders of Zion seriously any more?!
As for chips and the Mark of the Beast and Revelation - why do we even care
what Revelation says now? I mean - really? Isn't it time to grow beyond that particular example of religious foolishness and get on with something
a little more creative and interesting? Or are we going to waste the *next* two thousand years quaking in our shoes waiting for the End Times again?
Bah!
Wouldn't it be interesting if suddenly everyone woke up and realised *we
have a clear run at the future*. It's ours. We can do whatever we want with it. Ain't no grouchy old psychotic deitity (of whatever gender) going to
get in the way or call out 'Game over!'... Especially not with a whole load of tacky cosmic special effects and colourful characters that wouldn't look
out of place at a stadium Heavy Metal gig.
Waaaay too much drug-taking going on back in those biblical prophet days, I'd say. :-)
>The answers can unpeel thousands of years of domination and deprivation.
Well, it's true, I do occasionally wonder why things seem to be as
unpleasant and uncivilised as they are round here.
But it could just be growing pains. Kids in spiritual kindergarten are unlikely to be kind to each other. Just like real kids in the real thing,
who are far more likely to whack each other over the head with their toys than to practice understanding, compassion and forgiveness and all those
other things that us adults do so well.
Sometimes, anyway. :-)
>In my opinion...
Yeah - me too. :-))
R. Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:09:51 PST
From: "Roberto Gonzales del Valle" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Ayahuasca Experiences Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear Michael and Wonderful people form the list:
To start I must say that Ayahuasca here in Perú is legal but very hard to find in the mayor cities.
The first time I took the brew (which is extracted from a mixture principally from the Ayahuasca root that looks like a robe or, more
exctly, like two serpents rolled around each other endlessly) was in 1996. A friend lived in the house of a lady artist who has connections
with shamans from the amazon and had a lot of it for her and friends.
I knew we were dealing with something strong but beningnand good (I was taking LSD back then and a psycho analist told me that if I wanted
to experiment Ayahuasca or San Pedro were the best things to do it "they are inocuous", he told me) but you can never tell about the power of
the brew untill you actualy take it.
I knew Ayahuasca was strong enough to turn, for instance sounds into images and figured out that It makes you enough slow to reach (or
almost) the level in which all the senses converge, being all the same. But the intensity of the trip showed me a whole new renage of
perspectives. It was so powerfull and extraordinary that when I came back I said: "This is the difference between life and death".
At first I began to percieve the difference in speeds happening at
the same time: The unniverse has the same structure and laws of an atom, but the atom, being just an instant in the universe, is much faster. So
the universe can be said to be slow in comparison to us whose material life is like the blink of an eye in time.
I started noticing my whole self was turning very slow untill the point i couldn´t move anymore. But something inside me told me to let go
and so I did. The loneliness felt alfetr that is unexplainable. It was too much
untill the point of horror. It was me all black and the Universe so black, without stars, or life at all but mine, now that I look back it
makes me wonder about the moment of creation and the lonelyness that must have been felt to have to create all of this. Well, at the point
the lonelyness and the horror became unbearable, then began the LIGHT, a wonderfull white light that conforted me and gave me welcome to a
whole new world of sensations being the first what I called the "hug of the universe" In which I felt protected and covered. Oh my, Freud would
have a logicall explanation for this. I wonder I he could carry the wight of all that lonelyness. Now I know that the more lonelyness and
horror you can deal with the more rewarding, warm, and protective the light will be. Being good that the light is the finall part of the trip
and that is what go return with.
But that is no even the half of it! In my 3 Ayahusca experiences I have been transported to placed I would never imagine I´ll be. I has
nothing to do with outher space, being all things the same in those terms. Ayahuasca goes straigt to DNA levels, DNA is the molecule of
life, a few changes in it´s structure can be the difference between a man and a stone, It´s what makes us and what makes everything else, so
if you are slow enough to catch one single molecule of DNA you are able to be in the WHOLE because the part and the whole are made the same way
os the same "material" to call it somehow.
The strange thing is the analogy it has with the serpent, there are always visions of snakes, and those visions have been found in many
cultures, even in places like Siberia, where you can´t easyly find snakes. Other impressive thing is the shape of the Ayahuasca root, it
looks like to sanakes one around the other forever, the Ying, Yang simbol is just the same, beeing seen from the top! And the DNA strain
looks just lie two snakes one oround the other forever! Now, in some shamanic cultures such as the Aztecs of México, the word, Coatl means
snake and twin at the same time! Coincidence, I don´t think so.
Well, I´ve been, taking the bre and participating of the ritual, taken to places in the earth I could never imagine, Once I was in the center
os a tree. But I remember something above all, the vital energy, that that akes you move your hand anytime you want to, goes and belongs to
the person in your right and the person in your leftgives you theirs, and so on with all the circle of people in the ritual. That really gives
you the belonging in the world sensation. AND THE FEELING THAT NOW IS THE RIGHT TIME TO START THAT THING YOU HAVE BEEN HOLDING INSIDE FOR SO
LONG BECAUSE NOW IS GOING ON FOREVER.
I thank a lot to god for giving me the oportunity to have this experience and saher it with you. There`s plenty more to tell but I
don´t want to bore you. Anyway I would gladly respond any cuenstions or comments.
My best wisshes. It´s time for us to SHINE.
Love makes the world go around. Let it happen!
Roberto.
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:31:03 PST
From: "Roberto Gonzales del Valle" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Ayahuasca Experiences Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear Michael and Wonderful people form the list:
To start I must say that Ayahuasca here in Perú is legal but very hard to find in the mayor cities.
The first time I took the brew (which is extracted from a mixture principally from the Ayahuasca root that looks like a robe or, more
exctly, like two serpents rolled around each other endlessly) was in 1996. A friend lived in the house of a lady artist who has connections
with shamans from the amazon and had a lot of it for her and friends.
I knew we were dealing with something strong but beningnand good (I was taking LSD back then and a psycho analist told me that if I wanted
to experiment Ayahuasca or San Pedro were the best things to do it "they are inocuous", he told me) but you can never tell about the power of
the brew untill you actualy take it.
I knew Ayahuasca was strong enough to turn, for instance sounds into images and figured out that It makes you enough slow to reach (or
almost) the level in which all the senses converge, being all the same. But the intensity of the trip showed me a whole new renage of
perspectives. It was so powerfull and extraordinary that when I came back I said: "This is the difference between life and death".
At first I began to percieve the difference in speeds happening at
the same time: The unniverse has the same structure and laws of an atom, but the atom, being just an instant in the universe, is much faster. So
the universe can be said to be slow in comparison to us whose material life is like the blink of an eye in time.
I started noticing my whole self was turning very slow untill the point i couldn´t move anymore. But something inside me told me to let go
and so I did. The loneliness felt alfetr that is unexplainable. It was too much
untill the point of horror. It was me all black and the Universe so black, without stars, or life at all but mine, now that I look back it
makes me wonder about the moment of creation and the lonelyness that must have been felt to have to create all of this. Well, at the point
the lonelyness and the horror became unbearable, then began the LIGHT, a wonderfull white light that conforted me and gave me welcome to a
whole new world of sensations being the first what I called the "hug of the universe" In which I felt protected and covered. Oh my, Freud would
have a logicall explanation for this. I wonder I he could carry the wight of all that lonelyness. Now I know that the more lonelyness and
horror you can deal with the more rewarding, warm, and protective the light will be. Being good that the light is the finall part of the trip
and that is what go return with.
But that is no even the half of it! In my 3 Ayahusca experiences I have been transported to placed I would never imagine I´ll be. I has
nothing to do with outher space, being all things the same in those terms. Ayahuasca goes straigt to DNA levels, DNA is the molecule of
life, a few changes in it´s structure can be the difference between a man and a stone, It´s what makes us and what makes everything else, so
if you are slow enough to catch one single molecule of DNA you are able to be in the WHOLE because the part and the whole are made the same way
os the same "material" to call it somehow.
The strange thing is the analogy it has with the serpent, there are always visions of snakes, and those visions have been found in many
cultures, even in places like Siberia, where you can´t easyly find snakes. Other impressive thing is the shape of the Ayahuasca root, it
looks like to sanakes one around the other forever, the Ying, Yang simbol is just the same, beeing seen from the top! And the DNA strain
looks just lie two snakes one oround the other forever! Now, in some shamanic cultures such as the Aztecs of México, the word, Coatl means
snake and twin at the same time! Coincidence, I don´t think so.
Well, I´ve been, taking the bre and participating of the ritual, taken to places in the earth I could never imagine, Once I was in the center
os a tree. But I remember something above all, the vital energy, that that akes you move your hand anytime you want to, goes and belongs to
the person in your right and the person in your leftgives you theirs, and so on with all the circle of people in the ritual. That really gives
you the belonging in the world sensation. AND THE FEELING THAT NOW IS THE RIGHT TIME TO START THAT THING YOU HAVE BEEN HOLDING INSIDE FOR SO
LONG BECAUSE NOW IS GOING ON FOREVER.
I thank a lot to god for giving me the oportunity to have this experience and saher it with you. There`s plenty more to tell but I
don´t want to bore you. Anyway I would gladly respond any cuenstions or comments.
My best wisshes. It´s time for us to SHINE.
Love makes the world go around. Let it happen!
Roberto.
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:18:45 PST
From: "Roberto Gonzales del Valle" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Ayahuasca Experiences Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear Michael and Wonderful people form the list:
To start I must say that Ayahuasca here in Perú is legal but very hard to find in the mayor cities.> The first time I took the brew
(which is extracted from a mixture >principally from the Ayahuasca root that looks like a robe or, more
exctly, like two serpents rolled around each other endlessly) was in 1996. A friend lived in the house of a lady artist who has connections
with shamans from the amazon and had a lot of it for her and friends.
I knew we were dealing with something strong but beningnand good (I >was taking LSD back then and a psycho analist told me that if I wanted
to experiment Ayahuasca or San Pedro were the best things to do it "they are inocuous", he told me) but you can never tell about the power of
the brew untill you actualy take it.
I knew Ayahuasca was strong enough to turn, for instance sounds into images and figured out that It makes you enough slow to reach (or
almost) the level in which all the senses converge, being all the same. But the intensity of the trip showed me a whole new renage of
perspectives. It was so powerfull and extraordinary that when I came back I said: "This is the difference between life and death".
At first I began to percieve the difference in speeds happening at
the same time: The unniverse has the same structure and laws of an atom, but the atom, being just an instant in the universe, is much faster. So
the universe can be said to be slow in comparison to us whose material life is like the blink of an eye in time.
I started noticing my whole self was turning very slow untill the point i couldn´t move anymore. But something inside me told me to let go
and so I did. The loneliness felt alfetr that is unexplainable. It was too much
untill the point of horror. It was me all black and the Universe so black, without stars, or life at all but mine, now that I look back it
makes me wonder about the moment of creation and the lonelyness that must have been felt to have to create all of this. Well, at the point
the lonelyness and the horror became unbearable, then began the LIGHT, a wonderfull white light that conforted me and gave me welcome to a
whole new world of sensations being the first what I called the "hug of the universe" In which I felt protected and covered. Oh my, Freud would
have a logicall explanation for this. I wonder I he could carry the wight of all that lonelyness. Now I know that the more lonelyness and
horror you can deal with the more rewarding, warm, and protective the light will be. Being good that the light is the finall part of the trip
>and that is what go return with.
But that is no even the half of it! In my 3 Ayahusca experiences I have been transported to placed I would never imagine I´ll be. I has
nothing to do with outher space, being all things the same in those terms. Ayahuasca goes straigt to DNA levels, DNA is the molecule of
life, a few changes in it´s structure can be the difference between a man and a stone, It´s what makes us and what makes everything else, so
if you are slow enough to catch one single molecule of DNA you are able to be in the WHOLE because the part and the whole are made the same way
, as the same "material" to call it somehow.
The strange thing is the analogy it has with the serpent, there are always visions of snakes, and those visions have been found in many
cultures, even in places like Siberia, where you can´t easyly find snakes. Other impressive thing is the shape of the Ayahuasca root, it
looks like to sanakes one around the other forever, the Ying, Yang simbol is just the same, beeing seen from the top! And the DNA strain
looks just lie two snakes one oround the other forever! Now, in some shamanic cultures such as the Aztecs of México, the word, Coatl means
snake and twin at the same time! Coincidence, I don´t think so.
Well, I´ve been, taking the bre and participating of the ritual, taken to places in the earth I could never imagine, Once I was in the center
os a tree. But I remember something above all, the vital energy, that that akes you move your hand anytime you want to, goes and belongs to
the person in your right and the person in your leftgives you theirs, and so on with all the circle of people in the ritual. That really gives
you the belonging in the world sensation. AND THE FEELING THAT NOW IS THE RIGHT TIME TO START THAT THING YOU HAVE BEEN HOLDING INSIDE FOR SO
LONG BECAUSE NOW IS GOING ON FOREVER.
I thank a lot to god for giving me the oportunity to have this experience and saher it with you. There`s plenty more to tell but I
don´t want to bore you. Anyway I would gladly respond any cuenstions or comments.
My best wishes. It´s time for us to SHINE.
Love makes the world go around. Let it happen!
Roberto. Lima-Perú.
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:22:00 +0800
From: amycATnospampacific.net.ph (Amelia Dolores Cavosora) To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: DouglasMF MeadowartATnospamaol.com Subject: Re: Intolerance versus Unconditional Love
Message-Id:
Dear K list
As a newbie who's only into her second week with the list... what I like about this list so far is that we have one common experience: K, and
various backgrounds and viewpoints. How boring this list would be if only one kind of background and viewpoint prevailed regarding a most wonderful
and awe-inspiring experience as K. May I quote from a document written by a group in 1965 as their
Declaration on Religious Liberty (updated for gender-sensitivity): >Truth can impose itself on the mind of man/woman only in virtue
of its own truth, which wins over the mind with both gentleness and power.>
I say: K is a true experience for each one of us...however we may choose
to explain it, interpret it or deal with it, let its Truth win us all gently but powerfully.
Also from the same Declaration
>...the right to religious freedom is based on the very dignity of the >human person as known through the revealed word of God and by reason
>itself>
I say: This is assuming that K is experienced within a "religious" or a faith experience, where we become aware of the transcendent realm. Our
k-bliss is a taste of the divine realm, and is a gift from above. And if you have something against the Bible, listen to reason
itself. We are each free to believe in the divine and its manifestations, including K itself, and Unconditional love, because, from the same
declaration:
>It is in accordance with their dignity that all men/women, because they >are persons, that is, beings endowed with reason and free will and and
>therefore bearing personal responsibility, are both impelled by their >nature and bound by a moral obligation to seek the truth, especially
>religious truth. They are also bound to adhere to the truth *once they >come to know it* and direct their whole lives in accordance with the
>demands of the truth.>
I say: May we all come to know Truth and be faithful to it...
AS DouglasMF wrote Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:52:56 EST >We all have these wonderful expereinces, dreams, vision, and what ever you
>want to call them. They should be shared discussed, and most importantly >encouraged with open minds and hearts.
Incidentally, this Declaration on religious freedom was written by a group
of Christian leaders, Catholic and Protestant, at the second ecumenical Vatican Council. I hope their statements are not invalidated just because
they belong to a faith tradition which may or may not have been started by an ET in the fourth dimension. My heart says that for all its foibles,
faults and mistakes...the Christian church is one way for God to be known and manifest, and that does not invalidate the existence of Hinduism,
Buddhism, etc. even atheism.
Thanks to those in the k-list for all the talk about unconditional love, it has helped to balance the hostility and agression posted in the list...
May our sorespots be sources of each other's healing and not hurting...
Bliss to all...
Amy
With love >From Manila, Philippines
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:38:27 +0100 From: "H. Mensing"
To: Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01EC_01BD07C4.0275C920"
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kundal51" Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 07:31:24 +0000
From: Nancy To: kundalini-1
Subject: Re: Thirty Three Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Thirty-two was a year of death for me. The old life I had set up and
perpetuated needed to ripped away from my soul and thrown away. Who I was died at 32.
I am finding 33 to be a time of rebirth, greater intuition and insight.
I have found one of the projects I am spiritually contracted to work on. I have discovered my twin flame. I am able to find peace amidst the
chaos of the world around me.
Overall, 33 is a very good year.
Nancy Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:38:50, -0500
From: TDVW36AATnospamprodigy.com ( THOMAS SMITH) To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Listen....... Message-Id:
*let us pray...*
================= let us Listen....
____
God Loves You Forever Tom
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.