1997/12/12 16:05
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #821
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 821
Today's Topics:
Re: HRTZEN: Re: Enlightenment & Pier [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
the Way and the Calves [ Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com> ]
Re: Unidentified subject! [ Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com> ]
RE: Bible slamming [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Dreaming [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Twin Flame [ Susanne Macrae <smacraeATnospamcamtech.net ]
Re: HRTZEN: Re: Enlightenment & Pier [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospamsynopsys.com> ]
Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #820 [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:48:23 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
CC: "heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com" <heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com>,
"kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
Susanne Macrae <smacraeATnospamcamtech.net.au>,
Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospamsynopsys.com>,
"'Harsh K. Luthar' gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com rebirthATnospamsan.rr.com normdonATnospamuic.edu" <hlutharATnospambryant1.bryant.edu>
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: Re: Enlightenment & Piercing Knots.Long
Message-ID: <34912483.2536ATnospamintercomm.com>
Gloria responce: Meet Gene, Norm and George my soul/spirit friends...
Anandajyoti, thanks for your wonderful insight. It is a real gift to me
to have people with Eastern consciousness explain the way words are used
and understood from that perspective. My whole awakening is simply that
of experience, words are scrambled for to identify the experience and
sometimes they just aren't the right words for what I am saying. In
those circumstances I've been known to create ones to work. This is a
powerful discussion that I put out to several people I met at the
kundalini conference, Gene Kieffer who I met over the net and worked
directly with Gopi Krishna for many years, George Tompkins who I met
through Gene at the conference. And, Norm Don, a scientist from the
university in Chicago, who I also met at the conference. Norm has done
some interesting studies on consciousness and kundalini and plans to
continue with that in the future.
anandajyoti wrote:
>
> Gloria Greco wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Kurt Keutzer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > There are those who feel that enlightenment occurs precisely from
> > > the penetration of the three knots (or granthas) .........
> > > that kundalini plays a role in enlightenment but not an ultimate role.
>
> Anandajyoti>
> Enlightenment is an inner process, whether one believes in Kundalini or granthis
> or not.
> It is also true that when enlightenment descends from the Universe through the
> grace. the physical aspects of Kundalini and the piercing of the Granthis etc.,
> happens automatically. From an Eastern Perspective, such souls while embodied are
> called Nitya Siddhas. Like Babaji , who is mentioned by Yogananda, Trailanga
> Swami, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, and Kabir, the sufi mystic in India. All others
> had to go through the process, by virtue of their own determination and working
> through inner guidance. In the Western perspective, I can only assign, through my
> understanding, that Jesus was a Nitya Siddha too.
>
> > >
> > > It is my understanding and experience that enlightenment does not occur
> > > merely from the penetration of the 3 granthis. My belief is that
> > > Kundalini has the potential to complete a purification process of the
> > > physical and subtle bodies, of which the piercing of the knots is part.
> > > When the purification is complete, the energy which is known as the Holy
> > > Spirit can enter in totality and remain in its full manifestation and
> > > enlightenment ensues.
> >
> > Gloria adds to the conversation>
> > It is also my experience that enlightenment happens in the brain, in
> > truth the brain is alive, moving and creating directly from the will and
> > purpose of that ongoing movment.
>
> Anandajyoti> The state of enlightenment is perceived through physical brain, no
> doubt,but I would consider it to be state of consciousness, of knowing.
>
> > Gloria>
> > The word enlightenment and God Realization to me go hand in hand. How
> > does one become enlightened without knowing himself?
>
> Anandajyoti>Knowing oneself, is the result of enlightenment or God realization,
> and vice versa.
> It is remembrance of our essence, and knowing, feeling of it as such.
>
> > Gloria>
> > That inner knowing and absolute commitment has to be brought
> > into the soul/spirit awareness in such a way that there is literally
> > nothing else before it. Duality or the feeling of being two different parts
> > doesn't leave until that moment to moment experience of being manifests.
>
> Anandajyoti>Very True, Gloria. Commitment has a vital role , even in our daily
> lives.
>
> >
> > Gloria>
> > > Some people experience the downward movement of the Holy Spirit without
> > > the prior purification of Kundalini. It is my experience that when this
> > > occurs it doesn't usually lead to a permanent residence of the energy,
> > > merely fleeting visitations.
>
> Anandajyoti> Gloria, this is also my understanding. More on this is found in the
> Integral Yoga process of Sri Aurobindo. He called it the descent of the Divine.
> But when the body and mind are made capable to hold it in, that energy does
> reside in the body and mind, although, not in its full measure. Otherwise, the
> person would not be able to function in the relative world. But the knowing and
> the remembrance of that experience remains for the life time of the person.
>
> >
> >
> > > Kurt said:
> > > My viewpoint, which is not really worth a great deal,
> > >
> > > Your viewpoint Kurt has equal validity with every other viewpoint on
> > > this list (and elsewhere for that matter). ...... It is the sum of
> > > your current thinking, searching and realising. Don't invalidate it.
> > >
> > > Love, sue
>
> Anandajyoti>
> Infinite are the ways the Divine manifest in different persons, for its own
> reasons.
> Sue is right , that Kurt's view is not to be invalidated.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Gloria notes; this is a long discussion and quite detailed, if you
> > aren't interested just clip out.
> >
> > Kurt Keutzer wrote:
> > >
> > > Susan Macrae responds:
> > > >It is my understanding and experience that enlightenment does not occur
> > > >merely from the penetration of the 3 granthis.
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > Harsh writes:
> > > ''When the Kundalini has broken all three granthis and one enters
> > > different Samadhis through the Sahashara, the central practice needed is
> > > that of cultivating an attitude of indifference towards psychic
> > > abilities and various states of consciousness and remaining aware.
>
> Anandajyoti>Those that are so inclined may choose the route which Harsh detailed
> here.
>
> > Gloria enters the conversation:
> >
> > First there is a huge difference between the nice elating pranic or
> > kundalini movement that flows up the spine to just kiss the chakra's...
> > and what I call a full out eruption.
> > I consider normal kundalini movement pretty much preparation work
> > for what must actually manifest in its due course.
>
> Anandajyoti> Right, The movements of the Kundalini, only give us an inkling, it
> is not the end. In reality, the mind, the attitudes, the responses, the physical
> actions, perspectives, all need to be looked at inwardly, for the experience to
> be fully beneficial, and its application in our lives, also go a long way for
> the benefits to work their way thorough.
>
> > Gloria> I've never heard of the distinction between prana and kundalini,
>
> > Anandajyoti>
>
> Kundalini is also the prana but at a much higher frequency.
>
> > >
> > > Kurt responds:
> > >
> > > ..... what is implied by kundalini piercing a cakra.
>
> Anandajyoti>The force of Prana, (awakens the Kundalini), so the prana is
> transformed, into higher frequency. When prana is at the higher frequency , it is
> called the Kundalini. The transformation of the prana at the point of
> transformation of its frequency is called the awakening of the Kundalini.
> The three and half coils is symbolic of the of the energy being able to express
> in three ways, i.e.. Tamas or the inertia or darkness, Rajas or the Creative
> activity or Passion, and Sattva , the refinement of all senses, perspectives,
> knowledge, etc.
> so at each chakra the opposites play a role, but when the Kundalini rises to the
> crown, all duality is gone, the opposites are gone too. When the Kundalini ,
> pierces the Granthis at the Base, the heart and the center of Christ
> consciousness or the third eye, both aspects of the positive and negatives, in
> our subconscious, surface to our conscious mind. Then through understanding, and
> knowledge of it, a person is able to make the choices, and move onward.
>
> > Kurt:
> > Tibetan yogins that I have encountered
> > > consider the activation of prana (Tibetan: rlung) as merely a
> > > prerequisite for the activation of kundalini (Tibetan: gTummo).
>
> > If the consciousness that experiences > the pranic activity is seated
>
> > within the spine (or more correctly, the> central channel, known as the
>
> > sushumna), then the experience is felt > much more powerfully.
>
> Ananadajyoti>
> I find Kurt's understanding is very correctly put.
>
> >
> >
> > Gloria:
> > I do agree that kundalini or prana is not what is important in this
> > activity, it is what it does to consciousness or the brain that is
> > important. ...... This is all about connecting, balancing, activiating on
>
> > so many different levels, this then must be brought into working capacity both
> > in and out of the body.
>
> > The brain is the instrument of power here, but remember you are
> > building a light body on several levels for true cosmic work. ...
> > With the brain in transformation, each individual chakra becomes an
> > aspect of awareness which helps to bring the soul/spirit into direct
> > awareness of itself......
> > There comes a time when there
> > is no longer two things happening inside of ones consciousness, (
> > duality.) It is essential that full union manifests, which means there
> > is only one thing left and no thought manifests from this.
> > Anandajyoti> Very true , Gloria.
> > > <br>Kurt:
> > > The third opinion, espoused by the modern hatha yogin, Desikacar, is
> > > that pranic awakening is the true experience to be aimed for and
> > > kundalini is actually an obstruction. Desikacar sees the kundalini as a
> > > block in the central channel and thus the kundalini must be ``killed''
> > > to make way for the prana. This is the most unusual view of the three. ''
>
> Anandajyoti>The whole purpose of the Kundalini, is to make us aware of what we
> are, why are we here, what is our purpose on this earth plane, and by Divine
> Guidance then come what work we are sent to fulfill, in this life. Desikcar's
> view , I find it difficult to accept.
>
> > Gloria:
> > Take it a step further, it is not just the piercing but the total
> > balancing and tuning of the chakra to the higher frequency in the brain,
> > and then to the overall picture as purpose through Divine Will.
>
> Anandajyoti> Beautifully put , Gloria.
>
> > Kurt:
> > I think most..... So what is a piercing? I believe a piercing is when
> > > there is a permanent elimination of the knot at a cakra.
>
> Anandajyoti> The piercing though literally spoken of as a physical thing for
> matters of comprehension, is in fact the psychological transformations one has to
> go through, when the subconscious surfaces on the conscious plane. Our responses
> and reactions to the resultant transformation, and further, how we use it in our
> daily lives. I think, is the real aspect to consider for each of us.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > > Kurt:
> > > What is to be done after that? Quoting Harsh again
> > > ``the central practice needed is
> > > that of cultivating an attitude of indifference towards psychic
> > > abilities and various states of consciousness and remaining aware. At
> > > this stage celibacy is very helpful.
>
> Gloria:
> The individual must know the difference between psychic energy and that
> of spiritual power. .... And the other is total union withDivine Will. And in
> this the duality dissolves.Anandajyoti>Harsh and Gloria are right for many, but
> there are also many who take on the psychic scenic route, and choose to stay
> there, for whatever their reasons may be. It all depends, how one chooses, to
> live the balance of their life in the body.As Jesus said: As you sow , so shall
> you reap. So Karma comes in again.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Gloria:>
> > Divine Will is that manifest reality that transcends space and time.
> > So, in order to live in Samadhi one must live in Divine Will.
>
> Anandajyoti>This perspective in Eastern Mysticism is known as "Saranagati" total
> Self Abnegation.
> This is when "THY WILL BE DONE" truly becomes a way of life. Many I have seen
> take it as being a Martyr.
>
> > Kurt>
> > ........so if someone can tell me what I am missing I am very willing
> > > to listen, but what I hear people describing sounds to me like the various
> > > movements of prana.
>
> Anandajyoti>
> Each of us is unique, for a definite purpose have taken this earthly sojourn.
> There is no high or low here. Sounds do emanate when prana moves, but not all of
> us audio sensitive, some are sight sensitive, and others yet have other senses,
> to be predominant.
> So, in your own way, of mental understanding, I feel your mind is more sensitive
> than your body. That is also right. There is nothing wrong with that. In India
> such people who operate more on mental levels, take the path of Jnana Yoga, for
> Feelers, there is Bhakti Yoga. For those who are able to combine all , for them ,
> Karma, Jnana, Bhakti, Raja, yoga, are the ways, and Kriya Yoga is also the same.
> One can achieve the same state through either one of these or through a
> combination of all. But when achieves that state, by whatever means or path, then
> one intuitively knows the components of all paths.
>
> >
> >
> > > Harsh says:
> > > ``The debates and explanations are endless. There are countless Samadhis
> > > and Superconscious states but only a few reveal the nature of the Self.''
>
> Aanandajyoti>
> All debates and arguments cease with the knowledge, feeling and living through
> the consciousness of all.
>
> Thanks to Kurt, Harsh, Gloria and Sue in your wonderful sharing. On the piercing
> experiences and the enlightenment post.
> My bows to you all.
> All the best of the Christmas Spirit and the good wishes for the New Year.
> Ananadajyoti
> http://www.geocities.com./Athens/Forum/6782
>
> >
> >
> >
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:41:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: wolfATnospammedfordnet.com, vivienneATnospammind.net
Subject: the Way and the Calves
Message-Id: <199712122141.NAA19372ATnospampnn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Last night the calves didn't come down to the barn for supper. I'd
let them into a new stretch of pasture that afternoon, and thought perhaps
they couldn't find the gate in the dark.
When the sun rose, I walked up toward the back of the barn - their
part - calling them: "Tanpopo, Sayonara, breakfast! Cow, cow, cow!" Two
little heads popped out of the brush high up on the oak hill, bellowing.
They came bucking and racing and skidding down the hill, and ran right past
the open gate to where they obviously thought the gate ought to be. Then
they stood facing that particular stretch of fence and bawled some more.
They ran up and around.. past the gate again, to another corner, and bawled
their helplessness.
I finally went to the gate, and through the gate, calling them. They
watched with suspicion. I went back through the gate toward the barn. They
stared, then turned back to where they thought the gate ought to be, and
resumed bawling. After another 10 minutes had gone by, the youngest one made
his way along the fence - about 25 ft - very cautiously to the gate, stuck
his head through the opening, and with a joyful crow hop of enlightenment,
ran to the barn and breakfast. The 6 month old watched skeptically until her
belly overcame her reservations and she galloped home, too.
Reminds me of a lot of us, and of myself, as we go about this whole
business of following our Way.
Blythe
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:57:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!
Message-Id: <199712122157.NAA19816ATnospampnn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:57 AM 12/12/97 -0500, Thumper wrote:
>
>I disagree with this statement wholeheartedly. Humans, no matter
>who they are or what they are engaged in, can only manifest their
>thoughts once they are "felt". We function by our 5 senses. We
>have a thought; that thought is felt; the feeling is created or
>manifested in one way or another..
The last clay demo I did, occured at a time when I was extremely open to
anyone around me. Every person who approached to watch or speak or question,
approached in a cloud of emotions. Then one person came up to me, and other
than a sense of underlying hapiness, all he had around him were images of
the things he spoke about: giraffes and acacia trees and cryptogramic soils
and ants and moonlight. It was so incredibly refreshing to have him 'in
range', that I wished I could ground tie him so he'd stay, and his images
would keep away the swamps most others carried around.
B
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:02:21 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: RE: Bible slamming
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971212114722.19285B-100000ATnospamuhunix5>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Ah... That clarifies things. Thanks. I disagree, rather
> strongly in fact, but that just goes with the territory.
Ofcourse.. you have the neural programming.
> The historical data I've read says just the opposite to
> me - that especially in the New Testament, the Bible
> books are indeed the writings of eyewitnesses to the
> events they are describing (some Old Testament
> histories do seem to be later compilations of oral
> traditions about Israel's history - and Genesis must
> have been written later also). At least one text of one
Well judging by the reports of what happened in just one car accident from
several witnesses, I think you already understand my point about the
stories and it really doesn't matter... the point I was making is why do
so many people think they are reading THE words of God? It is highly
illogical and there are plenty more that do it better and are more
contemporary or written in the hand of living god realized beings!
> 4th dimensional ET?!? For now, I'll shave that one off
> with Occam's Razor - it seems totally unnecessary
> to go that far to account for the evidence we have. I'm
> open to seeing where that idea comes from, but it's
> new to my ears.
Keep your mind open... I knew few could accept it, but the more I have
contemplated this concept and had some very real experiences about it, the
more I see it as a sort of oppressive regime... How could a God do things
like be jealous? The God that is the K. force in us.. could not have such
ridiculous nature. What else would have such a nature? If it were 3 D we
could see it and relate to it.. if it were 5th dimn. it would not be
having jealous thoughts, thus it has to be at the 4th dimension... That is
how I see it and there are plenty of books to support this idea..
Zechariah Sitchin is WELL known for his work on the early history of man.
His books are delegated to the UFO Wierdo.. type section at Borders..
which is a crime, but when did a bookstore clerk know much! His texts
come in something called the Earth Chronicles.. and the best one to start
with in my opinion is "12th Planet" about Nibiru. He has more about the
Bible but as you can tell that is not my thing.
> can anyone made in the image of God feel themselves
> to be small? If the Spirit of God is inside you, and you
> know the God who made you, how can you allow
> someone else to control you? I answer to Him, not to
Well that is the question... are you controlled by your spirit of God or
by the dogma and conditioning of living on this planet under some
entity's control? These are questions I have wrestled with and maybe we
should all be asking questions... we are all here waking up.. to our
multidimensional nature which ahs been hidden from us.. Are we asking
why we had to be kicked out of the Garden of Eden.. who could be mad
with us and put us into such a dire strait? Who calls it love to kick
us out like that? Not any thing I call God... so check out that Bible
with a new flag in your head. If this were your father would you like
him? AND if he is your father, where has your mother been all this time?
These are not intended to be flippant questions.. I am seriously asking
you.
The answers can unpeel thousands of years of domination and deprivation.
In my opinion... Ruth
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:28:05 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Dreaming
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971212122449.19285F-100000ATnospamuhunix5>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I wish I had dreams... does anyone else not have them...? I just go off
and do all kinds of running around while I sleep,(busy little tasks to
clear up things around the planet etc. ) but I cannot call it
dreams and when I occasionally do wake up realizing I was having a sort of
dream, I know that I was watching myself have the dream and it is not
quite the same fun that way! No one believes me when I say I don't
dream... but I really do not. ... unless you call sitting in the movie
theatre watching the movie the same as being in the movie!
Ruth
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:03:19 +1030
From: Susanne Macrae <smacraeATnospamcamtech.net.au>
To: acarre <acarreATnospamconcentric.net>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Twin Flame
Message-ID: <3491BBAF.1A59ATnospamcamtech.net.au>
Antoine,
I loved your analogy with the elements.
Because we are also made up of elements, maybe the instinctive tendency
of the elements is what guides us????
Perhaps there is a NaCl personality type? Would a H2O personality be
a drip?
I'm going to work on increasing my Au elements!
I love it. Seriously though, I think there is something in this!
Love, sue
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 14:22:08 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospamsynopsys.com>
To: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>,
"heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com" <heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com>,
"kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Cc: Susanne Macrae <smacraeATnospamcamtech.net.au>,
Gloria Joy Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>,
"'Harsh K. Luthar'" <hlutharATnospambryant1.bryant.edu>,
gkieffer%netaxis.com.rebirth%san.rr.com.normdonATnospamuic.edu,
keutzerATnospamsynopsys.com
Subject: Re: HRTZEN: Re: Enlightenment & Piercing Knots.Long
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971212142207.0076268cATnospampcpo-1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
<lots of snips in here>
>> Gloria said:
>
>> > Some people experience the downward movement of the Holy Spirit without
>> > the prior purification of Kundalini. It is my experience that when this
>> > occurs it doesn't usually lead to a permanent residence of the energy,
>> > merely fleeting visitations.
>
>Anandajyoti replied:
> Gloria, this is also my understanding. More on this is found in the
>Integral Yoga process of Sri Aurobindo. He called it the descent of the
Divine.
>But when the body and mind are made capable to hold it in, that energy does
>reside in the body and mind, although, not in its full measure. Otherwise,
the
>person would not be able to function in the relative world. But the
knowing and
>the remembrance of that experience remains for the life time of the person.
>
I wonder if any of you could clarify a couple things for me. The first is
simply a reference. I have read a few writings of Aurobindo, each giving
some inkling of his experience of the descent of the Divine but I never
found one that really went into depth. Some were simply assemblages of
letters to his students. Can you recommend a reference here?
Secondly, regarding the descent of the spirit and the crown cakra. I have
two different experiences. One is of a wonderful loving compassionate
energy. As soon as I am in tune with it I feel more open and kind. The
other experience is harder to define. The energy is associated with the
crown but the closest feeling I can relate it to is a kind of partriarchal
power. I remember in Pentecostal Church as a child the elder men used to
gather - they all had this energy. It was not negative in any way but it
was not especially compassionate. It has a kind of ``wisdom of the ages
certainty'' about it. Can anyone explain the nature of this second energy.
>Anandajyoti> Right, The movements of the Kundalini, only give us an
inkling, it
>is not the end. In reality, the mind, the attitudes, the responses, the
physical
>actions, perspectives, all need to be looked at inwardly, for the
experience to
>be fully beneficial, and its application in our lives, also go a long way
for
>the benefits to work their way thorough.
>
>> Gloria> I've never heard of the distinction between prana and
kundalini,
>
>> Anandajyoti>
>
>Kundalini is also the prana but at a much higher frequency.
>
>> >
>> > Kurt responds:
>> >
>> > ..... what is implied by kundalini piercing a cakra.
>
>Anandajyoti>The force of Prana, (awakens the Kundalini), so the prana is
>transformed, into higher frequency. When prana is at the higher frequency
, it is
>called the Kundalini. The transformation of the prana at the point of
>transformation of its frequency is called the awakening of the Kundalini.
>The three and half coils is symbolic of the of the energy being able to
express
>in three ways, i.e.. Tamas or the inertia or darkness, Rajas or the Creative
>activity or Passion, and Sattva , the refinement of all senses,
perspectives,
>knowledge, etc.
>so at each chakra the opposites play a role, but when the Kundalini rises
to the
>crown, all duality is gone, the opposites are gone too. When the Kundalini ,
>pierces the Granthis at the Base, the heart and the center of Christ
>consciousness or the third eye, both aspects of the positive and
negatives, in
>our subconscious, surface to our conscious mind. Then through
understanding, and
>knowledge of it, a person is able to make the choices, and move onward.
Thank you for bringing another perspective to the relationship between
prana and kundalini. I hope that others in the group will take the time to
give their perspectives as well.
Your web page is also helpful because it helps one understand your path and
how you've arrived at the perspective. Creating a broader context deepens
our understanding and appreciation of your view.
>> Kurt>
>> ........so if someone can tell me what I am missing I am very willing
>> > to listen, but what I hear people describing sounds to me like the
various
>> > movements of prana.
>
>Anandajyoti>
>Each of us is unique, for a definite purpose have taken this earthly sojourn.
>There is no high or low here.
Kurt:
I can see how it seemed like I was trying to make a high and low - sorry
about that. What I hope to do in this discussion is draw on a wide variety
of experiences and traditions, like your own, to better understand the wide
variety of spiritual experiences that go under the name of kundalini. It is
something of a scientific enterprise - to make distinctions and thereby to
build models but to (try to) do so without judgement.
>> > Harsh says:
>> > ``The debates and explanations are endless. There are countless Samadhis
>> > and Superconscious states but only a few reveal the nature of the Self.''
>
>Aanandajyoti>
>All debates and arguments cease with the knowledge, feeling and living
through
>the consciousness of all.
Kurt: I suppose any reasonable person would just serve their teachers,
meditate, study, reflect, be kind to others and silently reqoice in
whatever personal realization they might have. But just as an artist must
sing or paint there is something in me (I won't call it an ``I'' anymore)
that must still enquire and understand.
May all find comfort and joy!
Kurt
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:54:48 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #820
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971212124412.19285H-100000ATnospamuhunix5>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Joe Miller:
' you write >>>
I don't know what you're smoking or snorting, but maybe you should give
it a break. When reality has become a stranger it is time to step back
and make it your friend.
The chip thing is not now technically possible and likely won't be for
some time. It would have to tie into too many different nerves in the
body and the brain to be of any value to a controlling authority.>>>
I would advise you to read the David Icke site at www.davidicke.org from
the UK and see what he says before you start flinging your comments about.
The chip thing is very much HERE and my cats have them implanted in their
shoulders. One got lost and a week later I got a call from the Humane
Society to say they had found her and she was identified mine from her
implant. Such implants are being used on people.. you can believe it. I
know of people who have had them removed. Whitley Streiber has many
documented cases of this in his book and a specialist in this very field
who has removed many of them from lots of people whom the government would
like to keep tabs on.
You can live in denial if you choose, but I know that such things exist
and are being used malefically to control people.
Wish I didn't. Ruth
*****
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