1997/12/12 14:38
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #820
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 820
Today's Topics:
WAS Unidentified/Logic&emotion [ Gloria Lee <glorybeATnospamintrepid.net> ]
RE: Bible slam dunking. [ Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.co ]
Re: Text on screen [ Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com> ]
Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #816 [ "Joseph Miller" <joemillerATnospamhotmail. ]
Re: Twin Flame/Soul Mates [ Athena <starwindATnospamgte.net> ]
Re: Text on screen [ "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhot ]
RE: WAS Unidentified/Logic&emotion [ Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.co ]
Re: Twin Flame [ acarre <acarreATnospamconcentric.net> ]
Re: Text on screen [ acarre <acarreATnospamconcentric.net> ]
AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Cen [ Laurie Capps <LrcappsATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Twin Souls and attachement [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:16:11 -0500
From: Gloria Lee <glorybeATnospamintrepid.net>
To: "Thumper" <thumperATnospamnetquarters.net>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: WAS Unidentified/Logic&emotion
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971212121611.0072046cATnospamintrepid.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:57 AM 12/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>valerian writes:
>> i do not agree that the Nazis were operating from feelings,
>but the
>>opposite thereof; a devious & calculating greed &
>self-righteousness
>>which belies total lack of concern for others. if they had had
>any
>>feelings of note, they could not have cold-heartedly &
>systematically
>>been about mass genocide for the aryan superiority cause.
>Talus wrote:
>I disagree with this statement wholeheartedly. Humans, no matter
>who they are or what they are engaged in, can only manifest their
>thoughts once they are "felt". We function by our 5 senses. We
>have a thought; that thought is felt; the feeling is created or
>manifested in one way or another..
>What seemed cold-hearted & systematic was the manifestation of a
>deeply felt desire. *I am purposely not getting into a discussion
>of my feelings around the history of the Nazi regime* A desire is
>a feeling, whether we deem it moral or immoral.
>
Gloria LEE adds:
Yes, lets please not get off into analyzing the horrors of Nazi's.
However, I believe this whole discussion arises simply from the fact that
we separate words standing for concepts..when in fact, a human being is not
so easily divided. Duality really is an illusion. Thoughts will cause
feelings to arise and vice versa. For any given situation, one may appear
to dominate over the other..but those that solidify into attitudes and
predjudices
towards whole groups of people are rather complex. If you then consider
the causes of war..we could be writing books here. It sound like the "lack
of feeling" valerian
was referring to was that lack of compassion for seeing another human being
as
another like oneself..equally deserving of the golden rule.
<snip>or as Talus put it..
>.Feelings are given to us for a reason..It is impossible to
>seperate us from feelings, as it is to seperate us from thought..
>
><snip>
>
Talus is right here.. sorta for most people..just pointing out that logical
conclusions depend entirely
on what PREMISES such are based on...as she points out the belief system is
primary.
What enables most people to function is a consenus reality, culturally
conditioned,
Every religious group exists to support that particular consenus reality.
The ego comes into play when people feel the need to defend that. Even this
list is a type of support
for such a reality...(consensus.. and/or support ..tho, threatened by
*some*??) Logic is hardly the villian here tho. It is so easy to assume
that ego IS the villian, but I question that even...Besides seeing the
futility of challenging an entire belief system - what other reason would
an "enlightened person" have for either pursuing or walking away from any
*arguement* or discussion of truth. Is it just a lack of ego?? I do
believe these questions may be of some value to the list..as our exchange
of opinions involves these same issues. All of philosophy was an
examination of such premises...not to get off on such a huge topic..but it
seems obvious to me when people are reaching *conclusions* about others on
the list...one can work backward to see the premises.
How *logical* this process is..is kinda up for grabs, tho. Do we challenge
conclusions here AND premises??? Or is each entitled to his/her own?? Just
asking to provoke some
thoughts AND feelings. Gloria LEE
>Logic is soley a word to describe man's interpretation of his ego
>manifesting itself. Had society not grown past the age when it
>was believed the earth to be the center of the Universe, that
>would still be a logical thought today..To an objectivist, logic
>dictates there is NO God..To a Christian, logic dictates Jesus is
>the Messiah..Logic, in my belief system can feed ego to the point
>where it stops our growth of finding who and what we really are..
>
>Namaste...
>Talus
>
>
>
>
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:19:23 -0500
From: Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>
To: GSDonne <gsdonneATnospamiinet.net.au>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: RE: Bible slam dunking.
Message-ID: <B982B2DC7C0ED111804600805F850AB21A8EF3ATnospamEX-DENVER-U1>
Content-Type: text/plain
> Zecharia Sitchin, author of, "When Time Began',
> 'The 12th Planet", "The Stairway to heaven',
> "The wars of gods and man', "The Lost Realms".
> "Genesis Revisited"
Thanks - hopefully a local library has one or more of
these books so I can see where he's coming from.
> I presume you have come across the genesis story
> as an early Sumerian story?
I have, but the theory that the Genesis accounts were
"stolen" from Sumerian and/or Babylonian creation and/or
flood myths is less than convincing. The diferences are as
significant as the similarities, and indicate to me that all
probably drew on oral traditions about the same events,
rather than any being directly based on another.
> Have you read the book on 'The Bible Code" yet?
> Interesting.
Not yet - I've read both skeptical and supportive reviews
and comments on it, but none of them say enough for me
to take even a tentative position on it. My book budget is
low, so I'm waiting for one of the local libraries (I have five
library cards) to get it in so I can look it over.
- Mike
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:40:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Text on screen
Message-Id: <199712121740.JAA13561ATnospampnn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Athena wrote:
>
>> " DO NOT FEAR... text on a screen CANNOT hurt
>> you
>
Text on screen can hurt, literally. I was psychically whacked by a
strong wielder of power whom I'd aggravated. S/He'd packed an email to me
with a strong enough wallop that I was vomitting. The words weren't
particularly negative. The wallop was. A friend, next day, saw me and said
my aura was crushed into my torso in front. {She pulled it out and I felt
fine.}
Frost and blessings and cold fingers,
Blythe
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:11:32 PST
From: "Joseph Miller" <joemillerATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #816
Message-ID: <19971212181133.2602.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
In Reply to:
- ----------------------------
>From: dcondreaATnospampcnet.pcnet.ro (Blizzard)
>Subject: Chip
>>I was wondering if anyone would know about an information device
>>that will be implanted in the skin of the human body in the
>>future.There has been some information from UFO,NewAge,and Biblical
>>accounts on this.Is there anything positive on this or the typical
>>negativity.
>
>I heard it's some of New World Order Project directed by freemasons,
>masons. They practice black magic, and this is bad. Read
>
>-Jan van Helsing 'Secret organisation and the power in the XX
>century' or something like this and
>-David Icke have some about.
I don't know what you're smoking or snorting, but maybe you should give
it a break. When reality has become a stranger it is time to step back
and make it your friend.
The chip thing is not now technically possible and likely won't be for
some time. It would have to tie into too many different nerves in the
body and the brain to be of any value to a controlling authority. The
Freemasons have been root of almost every crackpot conspiricy theory the
wackos of the world could dream up for the last couple of centuries.
(Well the ones that weren't caused by the Jews or the Vatican or the
greatest laugh of all the ones lead by the Jews, Vatican, and Freemasons
all working together, as if the Vatican would deal with the condemed
Jews or Freemasons.) Of course it was was the Masons own fault, if they
had just said "We have no rights to meet and practice our rituals in
private, we shouldn't expect to be given the freedoms people have died
for since the dawn of time and are the law in most of the western
world," they wouldn't have these problems with everyone thinking they
are at the root of all these non-existant problems.
Namaste,
Joe
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:29:45 -0600
From: Athena <starwindATnospamgte.net>
To: veroungerATnospamearthlink.net
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Twin Flame/Soul Mates
Message-ID: <34918298.11F5ATnospamgte.net>
veroungerATnospamearthlink.net wrote:
>
> Hello to all of you,
>
> I would be also interested in getting the answers for the origins of the
> concept of the Twin Flames.
>From *my* truth..what I have learned...
The concept of *Twin Flame* has its basis in many myths of many
countries, which, imho, is a racial memory, over many millenia, that is
then written down as a *story*...
In the Judeo/Christian writings known as the *Bible* KJV < Gen 1:27 > it
says "...male and female created he them...". This same text is
translated as "..male/female created he them.. " in other versions.. <
ie. Coptic texts, and others > ... I believe this to be a reflection and
genesis of the Twin Flame concept... *if* God created souls male/female
... and at some time later they split ...to go on learning their own
lessons... makes sense to me that at some point they would be re-united
...
On the other hand < she adds with a rabbinical twist *grin* > this
*could* refer to the male/female characteristics that are within each
one of us...
Both of these concepts are saying the same thing...depends on your
perception which makes more sense to you <s>
> Also, I would like to know, if this is the samething as a Soulmate.
Again in *my truth* , a *soulmate* is someone from your *soulgroup* who
lovingly incarnates in your time/space to help you with a *lesson*
Since Love is all there is, All Lessons are Lessons of LOVE...
*Soulmates* can be varied and many ... male or female.. younger or
older...racially divergent... culturally different... after all *they*
also incarnate for their own reason, their own lessons...and when the
time is right, you *meet* ... play out your psycho-drama.. either learn
or don't learn the lesson of love... and then part...
We tend to call these people *friends* or *enemies* ...some call them
*mirrors* ....and in *my* experience, they tend to fall away when the
lesson is either
1. Learned ... we go on to different phases of the lesson... with
different soulmates/teachers
2. Not learned...sometimes the lessons are too painful...and we are
not ready to face them...or handle them...Your soul knows these
issues must be resolved...so different *mirrors* pop up.. different
names,different faces... same lessons
Lessons are given... Learning optional
And in the final analysis there is a *test*...with a pass/fail
*grade*... yet another *mirror* pops up... presenting the same issues...
if you have internalized the *truth* of that lesson of love... your
relationship will go smoothly.. the deep un-conditional love will bond
you...through all kinds of surface ripples...
> A definition would be welcome.
Athena now puts her soapbox away *giggle* ... till some other question
resonates to her truth...her perceptions...
In cosmic laughter we share the Joy of our being
Athena
>
> Thank you,
>
> Veronique
--
Love and Light unto your Path...THERE IS ONLY ONE OF US...Athena
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:25:00 PST
From: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, merlinATnospampnn.com
Subject: Re: Text on screen
Message-ID: <19971212182501.24900.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hello,
You wrote:
> Text on screen can hurt, literally.
And text on screen can be deeply healing. In my experiences on the net,
the energy in words, is amplified by the net.
Words are only a template for energy...and also people who spend time
contemplating their emails before they send them off can 'inject' their
essence in to the words. That is why something that looks so innocuous
on the screen can have a tremendous whallop later.
Regarding the k list itself, some emails, innocuous as they may seem
are dripping with a luscious, juicy k energy. I love reading these
people's email even if they were just sharing a recipe.
Some emails I can feel the deep peace within the writer and some i feel
the turmoil and pain, regardless of what they are writing about.
I have received reiki attunements just by reading about the process on
the net. I have been shaktizapped by reading some emails written by very
potent people.
Angleique's grounding page is showing how powerful that concept is.
The net is a perfect place to feel the intimate exchange of energies.
This is way I am always examining my intent, to make sure my heart is
clean before I write. Sometimes I may be writing something that seems
harsh and yet I know in examining myself (in my own perceptions of
course) my intent is clean (the best I know how at time. If I waited
till i was perfect...I would never communicate with people. :>)
In talking with some of my other empathic friends on the net...we find
it a good thing to not be on the net right before we go to bed. Leave a
couple of hours leeway. For me, I tend to take other people's stuff
into me and do clearing work on it in my body and dreams.
I also find just the act of taking a shower helps so much, watching the
water drain away all the cares of the day.
I do think it is important to be mindful of the text we place on the
screen and our heart's intent. Only we/I know for sure that my/our
heart is clean...although there have been times I have been wrong.
Then I call for a reality check. I say to my friends and peers,'hey,
have I been acting like a real jerk? Am i projecting? You know me,
what do you think?' I am fortunate; i have a few, intimate friends on
the k list who know me as a physical person.
If I have the least bit of pride in what I write, red flag for me...I am
not doing it out of a heart of service.
These are just some of my thoughts.
Blessings,
Susan
PS BTW...I do not practice 'shielding' by conscious choice...I want to
be open to the world. Just for me 'shielding' broadcast that I am
vulnerable to attack...a place of weakness in me.
I practice a kind of aikido, you would call it. The energy of attack
comes to me and I learn to flow with the energy and it is transformed.
Still a daily practice to do that.
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:26:32 -0500
From: Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: WAS Unidentified/Logic&emotion
Message-ID: <B982B2DC7C0ED111804600805F850AB21AC0AFATnospamEX-DENVER-U1>
Content-Type: text/plain
Gloria wrote:
>Do we challenge conclusions here AND premises???
>Or is each entitled to his/her own??
Yes to both :-).
Back to some other points in that wonderful response...
>I believe this whole discussion arises simply from the
>fact that we separate words standing for concepts..
>when in fact, a human being is not so easily divided.
Toss this in with the facts that (a) we don't always make
the same divisions and (b) we often use the same words
with different intended meanings and the stage is wide
open for misunderstanding. On a personal note, over 90%
of the arguments my wife and I had early in our marriage
were a result of different meanings for the same words -
half the time we were actually agreeing with each other
and didn't know it.
>Duality really is an illusion. Thoughts will cause
>feelings to arise and vice versa. For any given
>situation, one may appear to dominate over the
>other..but those that solidify into attitudes and
>predjudices towards whole groups of people are
>rather complex.
Can't expand on that - wonderfully put - except to say
that I see duality more as an oversimplification than an
illusion most of the time.
>just pointing out that logical conclusions depend
>entirely on what PREMISES such are based on...as
>she points out the belief system is primary.
I wish more people understood this. The Socratic method
starts with securing agreement upon premises before any
arguments towards the conclusion are put forward. If you
don't agree upon premises, logical argument is futile.
>Do we challenge conclusions here AND premises???
>Or is each entitled to his/her own??
Yes to both :-).
Some final notes on Talus' last points:
>Logic is soley a word to describe man's interpretation
>of his ego manifesting itself.
Logic is actually a highly limited way of relating propositions
to each other and drawing conclusions from them. It is a way
of "mapping" reality, so to speak. When its limitations are
kept in view, it has nothing to do with ego.
>Had society not grown past the age when it was
>believed the earth to be the center of the Universe, that
>would still be a logical thought today..
>To an objectivist, logic dictates there is NO God..To a
>Christian, logic dictates Jesus is the Messiah..Logic, in
>my belief system can feed ego to the point where it stops
>our growth of finding who and what we really are..
In each of these cases, it is important to note that premises
drive the conclusions; logic is just the means. Christians and
objectivists would make different logical conclusions about
God because we bring different premises to the table. Ego is
fed only when we forget that, and neglect examination of our
premises. We can start to feel superior to others because they
don't see what we see as obvious, where in reality they have
merely settled upon different life premises (and may be just as
smug about our blindness :-). Understanding of the differing
premises we all bring to the table is a great first step in coming
to terms with our differences.
- Mike
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:00:27 -0500
From: acarre <acarreATnospamconcentric.net>
To: smacraeATnospamcamtech.net.au
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Twin Flame
Message-ID: <349197DA.F440F533ATnospamconcentric.net>
Sear Susanne,
> I think the desire to find a twin flame or twin
> soul is the desire to
> find the Self. We aren't really part of a pair.
> Some groups began with
> as little as 3 souls, others thousands.
So very true, i think, Susanne. I loved your post.
We all start our ascension from a point to arrive
at a unknown and infinite destination. At first,
some need to travel in groups, religious
organizations, other find for a time a way to
advance in their path in a sacred couple relation.
Others do the trip alone.
In the end we finally come to see we are alone
with the Self, and can finally focus in being
fully there in our relation to this world.
But the engineer in me is curious, as playing a
game, like a child. To find out more, about those
rules behind the association of souls on the
beginning of their ascending path. And also on the
descending path to this plane.
Even if you don't associate yourself with your
body, the me reading you at my desk, have created
a flow of "something" when we fix our
consciousness from this plane to observe it. This
flow is an act of creation, here on this plane.
I like sometimes to observe them, in my best of
capabilities.
To take an analogy for the twin flame effect you
talked about, I'll use the table of element, you
know the one you hated studying in chemistry
class. Their is poetry in there also...
You have nobles elements likes Helium, Barium,
etc.. who do not interact in chemical reaction
with others elements. They could represent
enlighten beings, or the energy field such beings.
Other elements in nature only want one thing when
they form molecules, become like them, at
electronic level.
You have the nice couples, like salt (NaCl). Where
the yang atom NA by ejaculating away is electron
to the attractive yin Cl atom, lets both element
reach an electronic state of the closet nobles
element to each. This energy exchange is special
love, that we could compare to twin flame love.
You also have group interacting element like Fe
and Carbon. I could go one like that.
So what i wanted to say is that on the energetic
level of perceiving our soul, they may be patterns
of interest to discover on the path of
enlightenment. Archetypes to find, that could help
us to create a better religion that would help
people more in finding the path that is fit for
them.
I know this is only a tool, not the real thing.
Just as the Bible is only a book not the real
thing. But it may help people to perfect the tools
as evolution of the species goes, until one comes
to find out he does not need anymore those tool,
to simply be.
Love
Antoine
--
"Bless all of your learning experiences. Your
lessons teach you to choose and behave even more
wisely next time."
>From "The Enchantment of Opposites" by Patricia
Huntington Taylor
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:13:23 -0500
From: acarre <acarreATnospamconcentric.net>
To: Blythe <merlinATnospampnn.com>,
"Mailing list (Kundalini)" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Text on screen
Message-ID: <34919AE2.BFF1C938ATnospamconcentric.net>
Dear Blythe,
> Text on screen can hurt, literally. I
> was psychically whacked by a
> strong wielder of power whom I'd aggravated.
> S/He'd packed an email to me
> with a strong enough wallop that I was
> vomitting. The words weren't
> particularly negative. The wallop was. A friend,
> next day, saw me and said
> my aura was crushed into my torso in front. {She
> pulled it out and I felt
> fine.}
A long term advice you must already know about,
Just i case you don't.
The more attached to the light one is the greather
is shadow (yin and yang)
So after that experince you know, that in you you
have still have hidden fears that she could touch.
I find that when someone can touch me this way, it
only means i have to seek deeper my fears. For it
not to happen again. If i clean the energy to fast
the opportunity of seeing and facing that fear it
points to in me, will only vanish. And next time,
i'll still be vulnerable to it.
But balance must be maintained also, as you must
know also. One cannot work on herself or himself
to face those fears, if he is to much under the
influences of them.
Do as you which with my advice,
In love
Antoine
--
"Bless all of your learning experiences. Your
lessons teach you to choose and behave even more
wisely next time."
>From "The Enchantment of Opposites" by Patricia
Huntington Taylor
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:22:44 -1000 (HST)
From: Laurie Capps <LrcappsATnospamaol.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id: <199712122122.LAA06107ATnospamhaleakala.aloha.net>
In the past six years, I have undergone a variety of life-jarring experiences: My mother died after a long battle with cancer, I was diagnosed with a brain tumor two weeks before my marriage, I moved to California and had surgery and radiation there, I moved back to Virginia and had a beautiful daughter who initially had some health problems (and she may have more in the future), and my oldest girlfriend died of leukemia after just a week of illness.
Lately in therapy, I've been having muscle spams around my diaphragm and in describing them to my therapist I said that they reming me of account I've read of Kundalini Awakening (in the book, The Call of Spiritual Emergency). But I couldn't be having that because I haven't ever been in deep spiritual practice.
My therapist told me that that may be what is happening after all. It seems to be true, but I'm really not sure.
I have lots of questions
Thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer.
Laurie
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:27:03 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: veroungerATnospamearthlink.net
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Twin Souls and attachement
Message-ID: <34911F84.522AATnospamintercomm.com>
veroungerATnospamearthlink.net wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> First of all, I would like to thank the person who had the idea of the
> kundalini list. I have started reading it faithfully every day in the past
> 2 weeks and it has helped me tremendously and informed as well.
HI, I forwarded your post to Richard Satin, he started the list and
contacted me right when he was putting it together to see if I would
participate. He ran it for almost a year when Mystress took it over.So,
it has gone through the process to get here. Richard is a wonderful
young man that I have stayed connected to, he might write back to the
list, if not I will relay his message. Gloria
>
>
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