1997/12/12 10:10
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #819
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 819
Today's Topics: Re: Twin Flame [ Susanne Macrae ]
Re: Emotional Plague [ valerian ] Breath of fire [ ori^ ]
Re: 3 Piercings (was Re: Enlightenme [ Qwartz ] Re: awakening through abuse [ Qwartz ]
unsubscribe [ "Scrumpyhead" ] Unidentified subject! [ "Thumper" ]
RE: Bible slamming [ Mike Stickles ] Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:42:15 +1030
From: Susanne Macrae To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Twin Flame Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello,
When I think of the terms twin flames or twin souls, they seem to elicit
a wonderful sense of unification. We are not really alone.
Most of us came into creation in groups. Other members of those groups reincarnate with us and because we have known them since the beginning,
we feel a strong sense of bonding with them. Recognition may feel like the "twin" concept.
I think the desire to find a twin flame or twin soul is the desire to
find the Self. We aren't really part of a pair. Some groups began with as little as 3 souls, others thousands.
I used to think of my partner as my "twin flame". We have had many
lives together as twins (and as siamese twins). In the process of my growth and evolving, I have discovered a non-attachment to the concept
of him as my "twin flame" and developed a deeper relationship with mySelf, replacing the need for him to somehow complete me. My love for
him has strengthened as a part of the process.
To me it was a wonderful, romantic, desirable idea, the twin flames. Like when I was little and waited for Christmas morning to see what
Santa had brought me. Expectancy and dreams. Ummmmm yeah!
love, sue Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:30:51 -0800
From: valerian To: "Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D."
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: using feelings to avoid feelings
Message-ID:
Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D. wrote: >
> Joseph wrote about Nazism being a feeling-based movement and about our > own culture's obsession with instant gratification. I would argue that
> both self-righteousness and greed aren't really feelings at all but > defenses against feeling what is really there -- ways of regulating
> comfort. What might be really there? Disappointment? Utter > aloneness? Loss? Terror? These realms are, of course, exactly where
> kundalini prods us to look. We can't get to the joy till we do. Holly v: okay, i guess i missed it. what was it the Nazi's were *feeling*?
more to the point, i wonder what the Jews were *feeling*? seems to me people in the American culture who have *feelings* are
treated like crackpots & put on medication! --
*stop making sense* http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7982/index.html
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:28:03 -0800 From: valerian
To: Joseph Miller CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, SchrLLATnospamaol.com
Subject: Re: Emotional Plague Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Have no fear logic is almost gone from modern society. Feelings rule! > May God have mercy on us.
v: hey there! i finally found your post about the Nazis & all, & i must comment that i find your constructs as to what feelings are to be very
different from my own. i do not agree that the Nazis were operating from feelings, but the
opposite thereof; a devious & calculating greed & self-righteousness which belies total lack of concern for others. if they had had any
feelings of note, they could not have cold-heartedly & systematically been about mass genocide for the aryan superiority cause.
yes, fat people eat to mask feelings; it is an unhealthy response. but, it is also feelings that cause the stressed & forlorn to get out &
exercise, or meditate, or pursue *truth* to alleviate the very same feelings of alienation & suffering.
this society is currently engaged in mass welfare reforms, & putting even more people out on the street, or beholden to *charities*. it is
done by passing 'mass judgements' in the forms of litigation, & is an almost entirely logical process.
and, i know the computers in anchorage will process my bank transactions as coldly & logically as any unfeeling computer can be. if
i have $564.00 in my account & a check comes in for $574.65, it is returned & my account is charged 20 bucks. Back when the credit union
was locally owned, the gals would call me & give me warning, & i never had this problem, because humans have feelings, & a society run by
computers has no feelings, & is entirely dependent on logic. sure, if you take those kida in the ghettos in gangs & random
drive-by shootings, they are based on untransmuted negative energy. but, this is an extreme example. crime is often passion based, except for
the one's logically premeditated. but, you cannot base a sampling of a whole society on it's *worse common denominators*, i.e. fat people,
abusive people, drunks & drug addicts. i think when you take in the *bigger picture* you will see that the forces in control in this society
are entirely logical, with no compassion nor empathy whatsoever. --
*stop making sense* http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7982/index.html
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 02:54:52 -0800 From: ori^
To: Kundalini-l Subject: Breath of fire
Message-Id:
One of the breaths used in Kundalini Yoga:
Sit comfortably with a straight spine. Rest your hands on your
knees, palms up, with your fingers in gyan mudra (touching the tips of the index fingers to the tips of the thumbs). Breathe
fairly rapidly (about 2 or 3 breaths per second) through your nose, while you pump your navel point and abdomen-- pulling
them sharply inward on the exhale, and pushing them out during the inhale. Your chest should be relaxed. When you're finished,
inhale deeply and hold the breath while you pull the energy up into your higher centers. Then exhale and relax.
This is a balanced breath with no emphasis on either the inhale
or the exhale. Try thinking of it as one continuous breath being pulled in and out. You won't hyperventilate if you don't
breathe through your mouth. Start practicing breath of fire for no more than three minutes at a time and work up to 31 minutes
or more.
--Tantric numerology by Dr. Guruchander Singh Khalsa, D.C. p. 121
In service to the process of awakening, ori^
oriATnospameskimo.com ICQ: 2918880
http://www.eskimo.com/~ori/ori.html
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:33:17 EST From: Qwartz
To: jaxxATnospamihug.co.nz, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: 3 Piercings (was Re: Enlightenment)
Message-ID:
In a message dated 97-12-11 09:34:45 EST, you write:
< Its nice to have confirmation of the different forces that Kundalini uses with different people. Since reading this list I have had the belief that
to have Kundalini at work that it must be like a vengeful raging torrent that wrecks havoc on your life. So I have doubted my own process... Now I
am getting confirmation that the gentleness that is changing my life is kundalini. >>
I've been feeling the same lately and asking the same questions about the real existance of K in my life. I'm so very thankful for the posts from others who
have shed some very comforting light on this!
And I'm learning that if you're patient enough, all your answers will come. And that's a hard one for me, cause I'm most impatient! I was on the verge of
posting a question here about my uncetainties of K because of the lack of extreme symptoms, when Sue (smacrae) posted her ideas and that answered my
question most beautifully.
Blessings Pam
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:48:07 EST From: Qwartz
To: keutzerATnospamsynopsys.com, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: awakening through abuse
Message-ID:
In a message dated 97-12-11 09:46:40 EST, you (kurt)write:
I read Barbara Brennan's ``Hands of Light'' a while back. She has a kind of physical typology (similar to that used in Reichian therapy). She mentioned
in there that many victims of childhood abuse are quite spiritual. Her model is that the soul slowly descends and resonates with the body as the
body develops in childhood. This makes a good deal of sense to me. Those who have abusive childhoods never really make it fully into their body.
They tend to stay in the upper chakras etc. After reading this I began to ask particular ``energetic types'' about their childhoods and I found that
what Barbara Brennan was saying was true. The additional challenge for such individuals(as though such a life wasn't challenging enough) is to gain the
ability to re-integrate with your body and to heal the places where the unconscious experiences have accumulated.
Kind REgards Kurt >>
What a fascinating concept, and I can see where this could be true. I, for
one, can be added to the list of people who grew up in an abusive home, and it's that very existance of experience that sparked my intense desire for
spirituality.
I first turned to the church for comfort and love. I knew that Jesus would love me even if it felt like no one else did. I knew somehow he would comfort
me when I was feeling so emotionally bruised. And even though the church turned out to not be "the" path for me, it gave me a foundation upon which
I've built a more loving and true connection with God. It put a bandaid on my wounds and then, once I was an adult, I was able to find a way (thru
meditation and much pleading w/God!) to forgive and to love and to release those wounds and those who wounded me. And you're so right Kurt, it's a
challenge of a lifetime!
Thanks for sharing that. I've got to get that book!
Blessings Pam
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:06:18 -0000 From: "Scrumpyhead"
To: Subject: unsubscribe
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Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kundal46" Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:56:32 +0800
From: GSDonne To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: *Lord Matraiya* Message-Id:
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At 01:28 AM 12/10/97 EST, Don B wrote:
> *Lord Matraiya* -- the buddha >prophesied to rule over the paradise of the future. What I have been thinking
>all these years is that Hopis, Buddhists, Jews, Christians, and others are all >awaiting the same One in different translations of the Name and different
>cultural traditions. What do you think?
this 'second coming' sounds like the second birth. the awakening of one's christ nature. then can i ask, 'where is christ's second coming'?
> As Deborah rightly points out, the second coming is really the birth of
the Christ, or Allah, or (insert yr favoutite Diety here) within our own hearts/mind.(hsin)
People are still looking outside of themselves for Christ, etc, instead of within. Didnt Jesus say 'the Kingdom of Heaven is within you'?
Yet they still expect Jesus to arrive on a fleet of clouds, (or spaceships according to some New Agers) and smite the unbelievers, who are also waiting
for their respective Deity to arrive and also smite the unbelievers hip and thigh.
The greater masses need an outside focus for their belief to give them hope and faith in a spiritual reality until their own spiritual awakening.
Geting caught up in the 'My god is better than yr god ' syndrome only leads to social and personal disaster, as history shows and this list reflects.
Once pple realize that these historical spiritual figures represent, in a distorted fashion, their own higher self, we may have a truer understanding
of religions, their similarities and their inconsequential differences. So yes Don, I agree with you there, to a certain extent, but not to
Christ, Maitreya, Krishna, etc, whoever, coming down and saying 'Im it, all those who followed 'Me' in this guise are right, all others are wrong".
Its really not important what guise or mask of the One we follow or believe in, just as long as we can accept that others are doing the same
thing with just as much religious, cultural and personal integrity as ourselves, (we hope).
Stephen
"Imagine there's no heaven, and no religion too, Imagine all the pple living Life in Peace"
John Lennon.
>
> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:57:44 -0500
From: "Thumper" To: "Kundalini Group"
Subject: Unidentified subject! Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
valerian writes: > i do not agree that the Nazis were operating from feelings,
but the >opposite thereof; a devious & calculating greed &
self-righteousness >which belies total lack of concern for others. if they had had
any >feelings of note, they could not have cold-heartedly &
systematically >been about mass genocide for the aryan superiority cause.
I disagree with this statement wholeheartedly. Humans, no matter
who they are or what they are engaged in, can only manifest their thoughts once they are "felt". We function by our 5 senses. We
have a thought; that thought is felt; the feeling is created or manifested in one way or another..
What seemed cold-hearted & systematic was the manifestation of a deeply felt desire. *I am purposely not getting into a discussion
of my feelings around the history of the Nazi regime* A desire is a feeling, whether we deem it moral or immoral.
> this society is currently engaged in mass welfare reforms, &
putting >even more people out on the street, or beholden to *charities*.
it is >done by passing 'mass judgements' in the forms of litigation, &
is an >almost entirely logical process.
What is your definition of logic here? That which 'we" (society)
have defined it as? I see judgments based on feelings everyday. As a matter of fact, without the passion felt behind one's truth,
judgment of another would not be possible..
>... crime is often passion based, except for >the one's logically premeditated.
EVERY decision we make; every action we take; every scheme we
devise, whether deemed moral or immoral; is based on feeling. We can only function on this plane through our senses. To say that a
"logically premediated" crime is commited without a feeling enhanced thought creating it, is impossible. Give an example of
ANY action taken that does not have a feeling involved. If one really looks at themselves, one would find that it is our
thoughts followed by our passions that make us who we are..Feelings are given to us for a reason..It is impossible to
seperate us from feelings, as it is to seperate us from thought..
>i think when you take in the >*bigger picture* you will see that the forces in control in this
society >are entirely logical, with no compassion nor empathy whatsoever.
Compassion and empathy are felt by everyone, including those you
listed as our *worst common denominator*...They at least feel compassion and empathy for those they feel think and take similar
actions to themselves. These feelings of compassion and empathy for negativity are exactly those manifesting in our society and
creating the conditions we are seeing in our overly populated cities.
Logic is soley a word to describe man's interpretation of his ego
manifesting itself. Had society not grown past the age when it was believed the earth to be the center of the Universe, that
would still be a logical thought today..To an objectivist, logic dictates there is NO God..To a Christian, logic dictates Jesus is
the Messiah..Logic, in my belief system can feed ego to the point where it stops our growth of finding who and what we really are..
Namaste...
Talus Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:37:34 -0500
From: Mike Stickles To: Ruth Trimble
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: RE: Bible slamming
Message-ID:
Ah... That clarifies things. Thanks. I disagree, rather
strongly in fact, but that just goes with the territory. The historical data I've read says just the opposite to
me - that especially in the New Testament, the Bible books are indeed the writings of eyewitnesses to the
events they are describing (some Old Testament histories do seem to be later compilations of oral
traditions about Israel's history - and Genesis must have been written later also). At least one text of one
of the Gospels has been found which dates to the late first century - probably a first-generation copy of
the original manuscript. Others are dated slightly later - second and third century - with more copies of
the texts found than for any other ancient manuscript.
4th dimensional ET?!? For now, I'll shave that one off with Occam's Razor - it seems totally unnecessary
to go that far to account for the evidence we have. I'm open to seeing where that idea comes from, but it's
new to my ears.
Interesting, the view that the Bible is part of some kind of propaganda story to make man feel small - for me,
the Bible has given me a broader view of myself. How can anyone made in the image of God feel themselves
to be small? If the Spirit of God is inside you, and you know the God who made you, how can you allow
someone else to control you? I answer to Him, not to them. In fact, the denominations or pseudo-Christian
cults which exercise the most control over members are usually characterized by one of two things - either
they discourage or forbid their members to read the Bible (as the Roman Catholic church did in the Dark
Ages), or they issue their own "interpretations" which are treated as more authoritative than the Bible itself
(as with the Jehovah's Witneses). Other groups like the Moral Majority seem to make use of the fact that
lots of people would rather have somebody else think for them since thinking for yourself is such hard work.
BTW - who the heck is Sitchin? When I was doing
some deep research into where the Bible came from, I found a lot of pro and con writers, but I've never
heard of him (her?).
In Christ, - Mike
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:18:56 -0500 From: "Harsh K. Luthar"
To: lodpressATnospamintercomm.com CC: Kurt Keutzer , smacraeATnospamcamtech.net.au,
kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, gkiefferATnospamnetaxis.com
Subject: Re: 3 Piercings (was Re: Enlightenment) Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have had many personal posts requesting explanations of the Sanskrit
terminology relating to Nadis and Samadhis and so on. Please forgive me as I am unable to respond to all the posts at this time. I have a full
time job as a Professor and this is grading time at the end of the semester. I typically do not use any technical language in my
communications. However, some of the points raised by Kurt were such that I had to; and Kurt seemed to be able to follow the terminology,
having a background in these matters.
The paper that I have on the Web (Ori's, Freda's, and Kundalini-l home pages) about the Kundalini awakening and Tantra yoga avoids the use of
too many Sanskrit terms and should be more easily understood. How do I get that paper on the Kundalini Resource Center run by Bill Peay? I
wrote him a note but got no response. Does anyone know?
I enjoyed reading Gloria's and Anandajyoti's recent posts. In fact I have enjoyed reading all the posts and do not mind answering questions
or giving my views. I feel only great love in my heart continuously pouring out and so no one should think they have offended me in any way
or that I find them confrontational. We have many wise and good people here on the list and I respect them.
God bless everyone with all that is best in life. May this whole
Universe prosper and let all living beings be engaged in each other's welfare.
Harsh
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:51:57 -0600 From: Kathy
To: The List Subject: Things and Stuff...(LONG)
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
All the emotions that have been racing through me this past two weeks!
It's traceable to the experience that I mentioned in my first post here, this flood...
And I am very glad to be here, that's for sure.
All those who responded to my post concerning my reactions to a certain
brand of fundamentalism, thanks...all the different points of view are helping me to see where I mirror (and where I *don't)...and I think some
more blocks are breaking up. In fact, last night I believe I was trying to go out of body (have never knowingly done that)...or perhaps it was
out of mind?
The dream recounted below seems to be a K-symbolic sorta thing...I had to write it down in as much detail as possible because it seemed very
strong to me. I have vivid dreams anyway, but this one was more so than usual...I'm going to put the entire transcript in so that I don't
re-color anything by editing...so if there's undecipherable stuff here, keep that in mind...
dreams last night...the night of December 11, 1997
being at friends´ houses...sleeping on beds...having hands and feet cut
off...willingly? waking but finding that I wasn´t really awake, thinking that Ivy (our schnauzer) was wanting on the bed and thinking I woke up
and put her on the bed...seeing Bash (my husband) walk out of the bedroom to get something but he was still in bed...the bottom half of
his “shadow” walking back into the bedroom (shades of Wallace &Gromit´s techno-trousers)...but it was dark scary and creepy somehow not
funny...the feeling that a presence was in the house...something going on that felt like nearly out of body (I jokingly referred to it as out
of mind) experience...
At the friends´ house, two houses...was it my folks´ house again? the night before dreaming about being at the folks´ house and having six
weeks of sex...and my mother was a younger woman and very beautiful but with a strange one-sided smile (not stroke one-sided, sardonic
one-sided)...the dream at “hand” bad pun...my right hand I had Bash cut off, he tried at first perhaps with an exacto knive but it was too slow
and painful so there was a contraption that I set my forearms into and it was a quick “guillotine” action...Bash didn´t do this part, the
friends at this house did it...this was like two dreams in one, in one of them I was "intact” extremity-wise...didn´t bleed much if at
all...then the feet...sort of the same...a creepy sensation typing this even though I know it was only a dream and...hmm...if it were reality I
couldn´t be typing this, could i? (I find that blackly funny myself)...
(the cd I chose this morning was “a kiss in the dreamhouse” ironically enough)...
There was a sex thing going on, the identities of the people in the
house were unclear...they were friends, all women, they were somehow connected to each other, in fact one of them was talking about another
woman as her wife...I remember one of them called herself Trevor (like mike palin´s contact in SF...on Castro street)...and her wife was...I
don´t remember her name...anyway there were at least three women in this dream and I think i was attracted to one of them...slept in a guest
house near the house and the doors were not locked...the porch steps were carved out of salt...the friends were asleep inside in various
places, I started to go into one of the bedrooms but stopped myself I didn´t want to invade their privacy or was it their nudity...and...back
to the hands and feet thing...i was trying to figure out how I could get into a tall vehicle...a truck or a bus (shades of the other dream of the
bus hijacking...?)...anyway...without any way to grasp things...something was strange but appealing to me about this but i
don´t know why or what...
(I must be cracking up? Naah...just weird dreams...I *did* have stilton cheese on my bagel last night, and not too long before bed)
Anyway...the sex at friends dream ended. A group, some children, some
adults (not clear how many or their identities, except for me...and Schwartz (our other dog, reminds me of "Gromit") ...and a horse...we
were walking along a road headed south and came to a crossroads, where we turned left, heading east...the road was narrow and on both sides
fenced with three-strand barbed wire...in the field to our right (the south) there were birds...and they were flightless birds, a couple funny
white chickens (the kind that look all windblown and downy...) and a bunch of “emperor”(?) penguins...gray and large, not like the peng. in
W&G...real penguins and docile...there were a couple of them near the fence on the other side of the road...it was sort of a desert area but
obviously a wildlife reserve of sorts...on the North side of the road were cattle, wildebeests and some other reddish brown ox like creatures,
some with one horn on a hump on their foreheads, not unicornlike but menacing in a way...we tried not to stir up these beasts...as we left
the wildlife reserve area we found a cabin/store/some sort of structure in the middle of the road area, fenced in but open...we went through
this (except for our horse who was led around)...it was deserted but had toilets that worked...I advised our party to use them now...and I also
turned off a running tap...as we left the building I was waiting for the horse (a "Chigger" type chestnut quarter horse) to come around the
building, and Schwartz the dog was hiding in a hose container on the wall of the building, because there were aborigines on the other side of
the house...we didn´t know if they had followed us or were dangerous but we didn´t want to chance it and were afraid of them ... we hurried on, I
called Schwartz out of the hose box and he came quickly...I heard a motor start and two of the aborigines came around the North edge of the
building in a small ATV...they went past us, then two came through the buikling carrying blue bows and arrows, they also passed us...I was
afraid they were going to want our horse, possibly for food. (hey, this was a dream...)...anyway we went on quickly, then the road became a
path, and went steeply down a hill, the soil was pale, nearly white, and the edges were surrounded by tall green grass like you find near the
seashore...I could see the sea farther east, and there was also a village or a city but I couldn´t make it out yet...I just knew it was
there but didn´t know anything about it...the slope was nearly vertical by this time and the path had blue rope staked into the north edge and
white rope staked into the south edge, it was only wide enough for one or two ... I made my way down holding the safety ropes which had knots
along their length and were staked so they wouldn´t come loose and so that you didn´t lose control and just go sliding quickly down...this was
a very long incline and then at the bottom it changed into an iron plate that was essentially a slide...not quite as steep and we slid the rest
of the way down...all of us got to the bottom of the mountain and walked on for a while, there were plowed fields on the north side of us at
first, then on both sides...signs of people working, machinery in the fields, and we could see one or two people standing around
working...nobody paid attention to us as we walked further east into more structures...I turned around and looked back, surprised that the
steep slope of the mountain we had come down was not as visible from where we were now...the horse was left in a pasture with some other
horses, because we could no longer keep it with us, the path was too narrow or something...we were walking between rows and rows of cages and
stands with all sorts of birds all over them...they were exotic colored birds and all varieties...further on there was a field with corn and a
machine automatically going through and harvesting the corn...further on we went through some mazelike structures, with more stuff --animals,
foods, fields--either side...until we finally reached a structure (they seemed to all be connected) that was quite “metropolitan” and was a
restaurant or a train or a combination...and we asked if pets were allowed, the fellow we saw said yes, we came inside...a little bit of
time passed and I asked if our horse would be okay where we left him...the fellow said the horses were used for food...I was concerned
but told him that this horse was old, the man said then perhaps he would be okay...at this point there were trains going off different ways...red
black and white, mostly white...and I had sort of lost the “train of thought” on where the dream goal was...in fact I don´t recall that there
*was* a goal except to go...that direction... and the dream ended...
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