1997/12/09 11:02
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #806
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 806
Today's Topics:
AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Cen [ Amy Caryn Johnson <amyjATnospamhaag.la.col ]
Re: Emotional Plague [ SchrLL <SchrLLATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Be here NOW [ SchrLL <SchrLLATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Enlightenment [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Re: Emotional Plague [ Lorianna Burkes <lady_enchantmentATnospamy ]
Christmas humor from Diana! (fwd) [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
A splash before meditation [ Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.c ]
Re: Emotional Plague [ tgxxxATnospamjuno.com (tg langston) ]
AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Cen [ mike walton <mushmushATnospamwebtv.net> ]
Re: Emotional Plague [ hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Ba ]
Re: Krsna & banana skins [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
Re: Enlightenment [ "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospamresearch ]
Re: new subscriber [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
RE: Da Virus thing [ Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.co ]
At 33 [ "S. Hustead" <shedATnospammagick.net> ]
Re: ego or Ego [ DonBBenson <DonBBensonATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Thirty Three [ DonBBenson <DonBBensonATnospamaol.com> ]
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:36:52 -1000 (HST)
From: Amy Caryn Johnson <amyjATnospamhaag.la.colostate.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id: <199712090236.QAA09213ATnospamhaleakala.aloha.net>
A friend of mine recently performed raike on me. I have spoken to this
same friend over the past several months about spiritual issues,
including kundalini. In response to a recent discussion he gave me the
address to Mistress Angelique's website. That night, after the raike
experience, I performed her grounding visualization. I then received a
warm sensation in my lower back. Over the next few days it rose all the
way up my back to my head, and the sensation is becoming more frequent.
I feel I was prepared for this, and my friend is certainly a help, but
I would welcome thoughts on where to go from here.
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:44:44 EST
From: SchrLL <SchrLLATnospamaol.com>
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Emotional Plague
Message-ID: <4bf2c249.348cb3f7ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 97-12-08 19:50:12 EST, you write:
> Just happened to pick up a book "Your Erroneous Zones" (oldie but goodie)
> by Dr. Wayne Dyer, with an excellent last chapter called "Portrait of a
> Person Who Has Eliminated All Erroneous Zones."
>
ATnospam->->--
I cannot imagine anyone who would want to elimainate any feelings zones. Is
this part of the conspiracy to outlaw all senses and feelings in human
civilization? Are we all to become senseless, feelingless and utimately
valueless? Talk about 'The Emotonal Plague'. How are we to be capable of
values without feelings?
L0VE and Light, Linda
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:47:25 EST
From: SchrLL <SchrLLATnospamaol.com>
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Be here NOW
Message-ID: <2c033ca.348cb280ATnospamaol.com>
This is my favorite book and has been since it was printed. I highly recommend
it. Love and LIght, Linda
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 19:46:35 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: smacraeATnospamcamtech.net.au
CC: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospamsynopsys.com>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com,
heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment
Message-ID: <348C4088.3642ATnospamintercomm.com>
>
> Kurt Keutzer wrote:
> >
> > There are those who feel that enlightenment occurs precisely from
> the penetration of the three knots (or granthas) and those who do not.
> Those who do not believe that kundalini plays any role in enlightenment
> are
> of less interest here. The most interesting group are those who believe
> that kundalini plays a role in enlightenment but not an ultimate role.
>
> It is my understanding and experience that enlightenment does not occur
> merely from the penetration of the 3 granthis. My belief is that
> Kundalini has the potential to complete a purification process of the
> physical and subtle bodies, of which the piercing of the knots is part.
> When the purification is complete, the energy which is known as the Holy
> Spirit can enter in totality and remain in its full manifestation and
> enlightenment ensues.
Gloria adds to the conversation:
It is my experience that kundalini raises the frequency so that the
universal force or Maha kundalini, what we call Holy Spirit then takes
over by uniting with it to take it the rest of the way. One must become
so aware of that inner process that the natural movement is always to
divine will. The Crown Chakra appears to open like a large fan and then
goes into its perfect placement working each lower center almost as
though it was tuning each note of a piano, this is a refined process
working above and below together. This also releases energy into the
brain, brain stem and communicates it directly to other centers.
It is also my experience that enlightenment happens in the brain, in
truth the brain is alive, moving and creating directly from the will and
purpose of that ongoing movment.
The word enlightenment and God Realization to me go hand in hand. How
does one become enlightened without knowing himself? To do the work of
the I Am requires not only an elightened spirit, and body, it requires
the mastering of each of those lower centers which are then integrated
into the over all work of the God realized purpose as it is manifesting.
I agree that kundalini by itself will not lead to total purificiation
by itself. That inner knowing and absolute commitment has to be brought
into the soul/spirit awareness in such a way that there is literally
nothing else before it. This realizing God...becoming God is the
movement that naturally takes one into the full blown awareness of God
and the total union. Duality or the feeling of being two different parts
doesn't leave until that moment to moment experience of being manifests.
This manifests through being absorbed into the whole, it is not
something you do, it is something you experience through grace. This
awareness creates that total letting go, acceptance, and realization of
being, that being manifest through the Holy Spirit, now the big bang can
continue.
>
> Some people experience the downward movement of the Holy Spirit without
> the prior purification of Kundalini. It is my experience that when this
> occurs it doesn't usually lead to a permanent residence of the energy,
> merely fleeting visitations.
>
> Kundalini doesn't always lead to total purification in one lifetime. It
> is necessary for us to totally surrender to her to allow her to fulfil
> her destiny. I believe the total purification process only really kicks
> in after the Shakti/Shiva union is accomplished. Kundalini may cleanse
> and clear on her initial upward rise but it is the focus of Kundalini
> with the marriage of consciousness that does the heavy work.
>
> Kurt said:
> My viewpoint, which is not really worth a great deal,
>
> Your viewpoint Kurt has equal validity with every other viewpoint on
> this list (and elsewhere for that matter). It is part of what is making
> you reach out and achieve your highest potential. It doesn't matter
> whether it is synonymous with any other viewpoint. It is the sum of
> your current thinking, searching and realising. Don't invalidate it.
>
> Love, sue
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:05:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Lorianna Burkes <lady_enchantmentATnospamyahoo.com>
To: SchrLL <SchrLLATnospamaol.com>, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Emotional Plague
Message-ID: <19971209070547.26050.rocketmailATnospamsend1b.yahoomail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have to agree with Linda...i would hate to think what this world
would be like if people totally release their ability to feel any
emotions...it would be a robot world if we did so.
I personally love to be emotional...the good and the bad...makes me
grow and learn...which is always great...
Love and Light
Lorianna
> I cannot imagine anyone who would want to elimainate any feelings
zones. Is
> this part of the conspiracy to outlaw all senses and feelings in human
> civilization? Are we all to become senseless, feelingless and
utimately
> valueless? Talk about 'The Emotonal Plague'. How are we to be
capable of
> values without feelings?
> L0VE and Light, Linda
>
>
_________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free ATnospamyahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:25:21 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: LightWork-L email list <LIGHTWORK-LATnospamMB.PROTREE.COM>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Christmas humor from Diana! (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971209002425.9186A-100000ATnospamuhunix4>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Beware of fowl... foul language!
Forwarded from Sue:
December 14th
Dearest John:
I went to the door today and the postman delivered a partridge in a
pear tree. What a delightful gift. I couldn't have been more surprised.
With dearest love and affection, Agnes
--------------------------------------
December 15th
Dearest John:
Today the postman brought your very sweet gift. Just imagine, two turtle
doves.... I'm just delighted at your very thoughtful gift. They are just
adorable.
All my love, Agnes
------------------
December 16th
Dear John:
Oh, aren't you the extravagant one! Now I must protest. I don't deserve
such generosity. Three french hens. They are just darling but I must
insist.... you're just too kind.
Love Agnes
---------
December 17th
Today the postman delivered four calling birds. Now really! They are
beautiful, but don't you think enough is enough? You're being too
romantic.
Affectionately, Agnes
---------------------
December 18th
Dearest John:
What a surprise! Today the postman delivered five golden rings. One for
each finger. You're just impossible, but I love it. Frankly, John, all
those squawking birds were beginning to get on my nerves.
All my love, Agnes
------------------
December 19th
Dear John:
When I opened the door there were actually six geese a-laying on my
front
steps. So you're back to the birds again, huh? Those geese are huge.
Where
will I ever keep them? The neighbors are complaining and I can't sleep
through the racket. PLEASE STOP!
Cordially, Agnes
----------------
December 20th
John:
What's with you and those fucking birds???? Seven swans a-swimming. What
kind of goddam joke is this? There's bird shit all over the house and
they
never stop the racket. I'm a nervous wreck and I can't sleep all night.
IT'S NOT FUNNY.......So stop with those fucking birds.
Sincerely, Agnes
----------------
December 21st
OK Buster:
I think I prefer the birds. What the hell am I going to do with eight
maids
a-milking? It's not enough with all those birds and eight maids
a-milking,
but they had to bring their own goddam cows. There is shit all over the
lawn and I can't move into my own house. Just lay off me. SMART ASS.
Ag
----------------
December 22nd
Hey Shithead:
What are you? Some kind of sadist? Now there's nine pipers playing. And
Christ - do they play. They never stopped chasing those maids since they
got here yesterday morning. The cows are upset are stepping all over
those screeching birds. No wonder they screeh. What am I going to do?
The neighbors have started a petetion to evict me. You'll get yours.
Bye, Ag
----------------
December 23rd
You Rotten Prick:
Now there's ten ladies dancing - I don't know why I call those sluts
ladies. They've been balling those nine pipers all night long. Now the
cows can't sleep and they've got diarrhea. My living room is a river of
shit. The commisioner of buildings has subpoenaed me to give cause why
the building shouldn't be condemned. I'm sicking the police on you.
One who means it, Ag
--------------------
December 24th
Listen Fuckhead:
What's with the eleven lords a-leaping on those maids and aforementioned
"ladies"? Some of those broads will never walk again. Those pipers ran
through the maids and have been commiting sodomy with the cows. All 234
of
the birds are dead. They have been trampled to death in the orgy. I hope
you're satisfied, you rotten swine.
Your sworn enemy, Miss Agnes McCallister
--------------------------------------
December 25th (From the law offices Taeker, Spredar, and Baegar)
Dear Sir:
This is to acknowledge your latest gift of tweleve fiddlers fiddling,
which
you have seen fit to inflict on our client, Miss Agnes McCallister. The
destruction, of course, was total. All correspondence should come to our
attention. If you should attempt to reach Miss McCallister at Happy Dale
Sanitarium, the attendants have instructions to shoot you on sight. With
this letter, please find attached a warrant for your arrest.
>
^
^
^
^
^
^^
^
^
>
> =============
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 00:18:56 +1100 (EDT)
From: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
cc: Kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: A splash before meditation
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.971210000833.2581A-100000ATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Just a little practice to calm the mind before meditation.
Splash water in the eyes (open) say 12 times - excellent for vitality.
Pass water up the nostrils so as to let it go out of the mouth, ie don't
swallow and don't choke:). Gets easy after a while. do 3 times.
Excellent for cleaning the nose and clear breathing and maintaining
harmony between left and right nostril.
put water in mouth and rub tongue with middle finger (right hand
seems easier) to clean tongue - could use tongue cleaner also. I also find
it useful to clean teeth quickly before meditation as bits in between the
teeth seem to bother.
splash water behind both ears to cool down back of head
splash water behind neck also
Splash water from elbows downward and from knees downwards - quite
relaxing and make the knees supple and easier to sit.
Splash water in genital areas to cool down (eg someone told me in France
this is common after going to toilet and indeed is very healthy practice
to ensure all wastes are expelled - quite interesting how much urine
remains which should be thoroughly expelled and which gets expelled by
water over that area - try it and see).
----
This also quite good before sleep, upon waking and anytime on a hot day.
dieter
PS try it for a 2 weeks and notice the difference - I'd be interested in
empirical fact finding evidence
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:40:03 -0500
From: tgxxxATnospamjuno.com (tg langston)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Emotional Plague
Message-ID: <19971209.084018.17518.1.tgxxxATnospamjuno.com>
>ATnospam->->-- Linda wrote:
>I cannot imagine anyone who would want to elimainate any feelings
>zones. Is >this part of the conspiracy to outlaw all senses and feelings
in human >civilization? Are we all to become senseless, feelingless and
>utimately >valueless? Talk about 'The Emotonal Plague'. How are we to be
capable >of>values without feelings?
Hey Linda....
I didn't get that perception from the article at all. What I read was
that once you let your attachments to people, situations, and things of
this world go, what you have left, is a very happy and joyful person -
one that realizes there is no problem that cannot be solved, one that
allows another and themselves to take responsibility for their own
actions, one that sees the world through the eyes of love. From what I
read this person loves life and doesn't worry about what the world thinks
of him/her - that they have become happy with who they are. They are no
longer emotional plagues to themselves and the world -- their anger,
worries, and frustrations (what I see as emotional plagues that tend to
keep us in an unbalanced state) have been let go off because they are
not attached. I read that this person is interested in learning and
growth and has a real thirst for those things.
I find it so fasinating how people differ so in their perceptions! The
one thing I really got from this chapter was that this was an extremely
feeling person - one filled with laughter, joy, and love for self,
others, and the world.
Love,
xxxtg
" I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe."
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html <~~~~~~ on the web now!
tg wrote...
>> Just happened to pick up a book "Your Erroneous Zones" (oldie but
>goodie)>> by Dr. Wayne Dyer, with an excellent last chapter called
"Portrait >of a>> Person Who Has Eliminated All Erroneous Zones."
>>
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 03:52:18 -1000 (HST)
From: mike walton <mushmushATnospamwebtv.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id: <199712091352.DAA15449ATnospamhaleakala.aloha.net>
I erased my messages by accident!!!!!!!!!!
IS there a Sue Carlson who posted a message here yesterday?? Did she train with Dr. Glenn Morris?
IF so, would you E-mail me please? thank you
M. Walton
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:00:28 -0600 (CST)
From: hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Emotional Plague
Message-Id: <199712091500.JAA00327ATnospamdfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com>
Somebody -- I wish now I could remember who it was, maybe Georg
Feuerstein? -- wrote about the distinction between emotion and feeling.
I thought it a bit forced but it can be useful to remember that we are
feeling creatures, just like all animals, because we have bodies and
are subject to fear, joy, sadness, etc. Emotions have more to do with
the dominance of the aware ego. Or maybe I've got it backwards.
Anyway, my model is to feel the way a cat or a baby does: swiftly,
spontaneously, wholely, like changing weather patterns. But also to
observe and not get stuck. The unpleasant feelings that pass through
my body are as much god as the bliss. Holly
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:19:57 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Krsna & banana skins
Message-ID: <1330463268-2922711ATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dieter told us a story:
<snip>
>his wife, fully absorbed in feelings, feeding him the skins of the bananas
>instead of the bananas. The Lord also was eating so happily that it seemed as
>if he had not tasted a more delicious food ever before.
<snip>
This reminds me of the story of Jesus, Mary and Martha. Mary sits in rapt
attention listening to Jesus while Martha prepares food. Soon Martha stamps
out to reprimand Mary for just laying around and not helping her in the
kitchen!
In both cases we have two people in blissfull connection when a third
arrives to whine about petty, mundane concerns. I see parallels in my own
life as well. At work I will be deep into learning something new in
multimedia, when my boss will come by to whine that the monitors need
dusting! Arggggghhhhhh!
Precious and few are those who understand what is really valuable in life.
Everything else is just "ashes to ashes and dust to dust." Dust will always
re-settle, but things like love, knowledge, and wisdom are forever. (at
least until the Alzheimer's sets in...)
What a delightful story! There is also a saying about beggar's scraps eaten
in good company is more nourishing than a feast with the king... or
something like that.
More posts like this please :-),
amckeon
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 11:06:52 -0500
From: "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospamresearch1.bryant.edu>
To: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospamsynopsys.com>
CC: "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment
Message-ID: <348D6C9C.7E34ATnospamacad.bryant.edu>
> Kurt asks:
> What kind of practices do you advocate at this point?
>
When the Kundalini has broken all three granthis and one enters
different Samadhis through the Sahashara, the central practice needed is
that of cultivating an attitude of indifference towards psychic
abilities and various states of consciousness and remaining aware. At
this stage celibacy is very helpful. It allows one to retain the
Kundalini at the Sahashara and stay in Samadhi for a longer period. If
one is completely calm and detached *before* going into meditation and
the Shakti rises spontaneously and reaches the Sahashara, then through
divine grace, it will enter the Amrita Nadi, also called the Para Nadi,
which links the Sahashara with the Hridayam, and Kevala Nirvikalpa
Samadhi will result.
You may want to read chapter 14 on Samadhis of the book "Be As You are",
The Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharishi, edited by David Godman. The word
Kevala, Kevali, Kaivalya have the same origin and similar meanings.
Kevala means either "Only" or "Isolated" (from Karmas) or "Alone". In
Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi, the Self Alone Remains. The Body is
immobilized and there is no trace of body or mind consciousness.
Therefore, due to the absence of thought and mind there is a dynamic
stillness which is pure intensity of knowledge, and hence the Self is
clearly Recognized as Self-Existent and Pure and Eternal Being. Kevala
Jnana refers to Self-Realization along with the state of Omniscience in
the Jaina tradition. Kaivalya also means Liberation as the Self is
Alone, One without a Second. All duality has vanished.
The debates and explanations are endless. There are countless Samadhis
and Superconscious states but only a few reveal the nature of the Self.
Harsh
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:30:23 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: new subscriber
Message-ID: <1330462642-2960371ATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sue H. wrote:
<snip>
>I went - didn't sleep for two
>weeks as a cleanse ensued
<snip>
Whoa! Three days without sleep spins me into the ozone. You are a stronger
woman than I, Gunga Din.
<snip>
>volunteer my time in the area
>of domestic violence and rape
<snip>
I was a volunteer rape counselor for three years. Between the internal
politics and the sad stories, three years was all I could take.
Welcome to the list!
amckeon
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:25:25 -0500
From: Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: RE: Da Virus thing
Message-ID: <B982B2DC7C0ED111804600805F850AB219B5C2ATnospamEX-DENVER-U1>
Content-Type: text/plain
I'll have to jump in with a disagreement on this one. Paul
in no way contradicts Jesus' teachings. He simply has a
different approach. Remember, Jesus preached to the
Jews, and Peter and the other apostles spent most of
their time in Jerusalem teaching the Jews, who were of
a more Eastern mind than the Greek-influenced Gentiles
around them. Paul preached to the Gentiles, so obviously
his teachings would seem more "mental" as this was the
way they understood the world. I have to use the same
style if I share my Christian faith with scientists, though
it would usually be out-of-place here (that's a benefit of
living in "multiple worlds" - being able to speak in a more-
or-less appropriate language for each).
I won't say much about "too anti-women" except to note
that many women (including my wife) disagree with that
characterization, and see freedom instead of bondage in
his teaching on the role of women in the church. I'm not at
all sure what you mean by "too social" so I'll pass on that.
As for the Roman church under the rule of the Popes being
the Beast, I might not agree that they were *the* Beast, but
otherwise that's a pretty good characterization of their state
during the medieval times. I wouldn't place the blame on Paul,
though - the church ruling the state doesn't seem consistent
with anything Paul wrote.
>Reading the Bible and going to church once a week
>have never been the be all and end all method of
>reaching God... yet we still get people thinking that
>they are "all set" and on the road to salvation because
>they do this...
Yep - and Paul would have said the same. Salvation is "by
grace through faith" not "by attendance through reading." I
spent several years reading the Bible and going to church
every week, yet knew that something was missing - God
wasn't real to me. Now I still read the Bible and go to church
every week - but it's *because* God is real to me, and I want
to learn more about Him and fellowship with others who share
my faith. Too many people have the "cart leading the horse"
on that one.
Finally, in general let's not be too quick in looking only to the
heart for Truth and ignoring the head. The Bible says "the
heart is deceitful above all things; who can understand it?"
I don't recall a Scripture about the mind being deceitful, but
we all know that it can be as well. And while the Spirit of God
will not deceive us, the Spirit speaks softly to our spirit - its
voice can be drowned out by the clamor of heart and head. I
am not comfortable with a belief unless my head, my spirit
and my heart are all in agreement. If I have to supress part of
myself (be it head, heart or spirit) to believe something, then
I have a problem.
Gotta go - water break's over (actually a coffee break but I
can't stand coffee :-) - God bless -
- Mike
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:00:50 -0800
From: "S. Hustead" <shedATnospammagick.net>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: At 33
Message-Id: <199712091813.KAA28128ATnospamusers.wizzards.net>
ShedATnospamMagick.net
When I was 33 back in 1978 I was at a place of wanting to find more to life
or check out of it. There was a popular song by Peggy Lee called "Is that
all there is" which summed up my attitude at that time. There had to be
more to life than I was in contact with or what was the point of this
shallow meaningless existence. I came in contact with the EST training and
did that which opened another level of life for me. I played in the
network doing seminars and eventually went on staff for a short while and
then went to Australia to reconnect with my roots.
Looking from here now - that seems like 2 lifetimes back.
Sue Hustead
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:45:32 EST
From: DonBBenson <DonBBensonATnospamaol.com>
To: TDVW36AATnospamPRODIGY.COM
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: ego or Ego
Message-ID: <7e6b3bb2.348d83beATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 97-12-08 23:56:37 EST, you write:
<< There is a verse in the Bible which speaks on lower self and Higher
Self.
(if anyone knows which chapter it is in, please let me know)
>>
Tom, The lower self and Higher Self terminology doesn't click, but if we
think <above and below> then John 8:23 and Colossians 3:1-4 come to mind.
This speaks to the basic character of your identity -- whether the *old man*
self (taking, defensive, carnal) or the *new man* self (giving, loving,
heavenly) is in control - and how you go about walking as a citizen of heaven
(Philippians 3:20) among the citizens of earth. Don
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:45:13 EST
From: DonBBenson <DonBBensonATnospamaol.com>
To: divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, reasonsATnospamreasons.org
Subject: Re: Thirty Three
Message-ID: <2cbd02b2.348d83abATnospamaol.com>
Wow, Susan, that's beautiful - about how the Holy Spirit came to you and began
moving in you and through you as a gentle subtle breeze. Hellelujah!
Your account of your intense struggles at age 33 with the doctrines and
experiences of hell brings forth several reflections in no particular order.
First, I notice that the rational human mind boggles at the thought of hell as
if hovering on the brink of insanity. Denial that a loving God could possibly
send anyone to hell is a founding principle of many home-grown religions in
America -- Universalism, Christian Science, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses,
etc. - and is now widespread in most of the older established denominations.
Indeed, the dark underworld (which serves as a holding area for unrepentant
evil doers until the day of judgment and fire) was not made for human beings
but for rebellious angels, to protect God's people from them. Unfortunately,
many people seem determined to go along with the rebellious angels. I am glad
to know you want to be with God. Some others on the K-list are sending mixed
messages.
Second, what makes it so hard is the fact that, as Paul said, <what I hate is
what I do.> Every person born of a man and a woman (Jesus was born of the
Holy Spirit and a woman) in the last 6171 years has inherited a sin nature,
and it is impossible for a sinner to enter the kingdom of heaven, <but with
God all things are possible.>
Third, now that the issue of hell has been resolved for you personally on a
subjective basis, I wonder if you may be ready to consider the subject
objectively. The best logical, objective and scientific discussion I've seen
so far can be found in Chapter 16 of Beyond the Cosmos by Hugh Ross (Navpress,
1996).
In a message dated 97-12-08 21:57:59 EST, you write:
<< Paradoxically, I could not relax totally into it for this intense
purity made me feel unclean and I could not totally accept it because I
could not accept myself. I had to ask it to stop for the intensity of
the energy was so painful to my little self. >>
This reminds me of my experience (on a more childish level) at age eight in
January 1953. You have felt the fire part of <He will baptize you with the
Holy Spirit and fire.> It is found as well in Old Testament accounts of
encounters with the Holy One of Israel. I'm sure you remember the classic
example in Isaiah 6, where Isaiah said, <Woe is me, for I am undone! Because
I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean
lips; For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.> Then fire was taken
from the altar, and his iniquity was taken away, and his sin purged.
You're smokin', Baby! Keep up the good work. Love, Don
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