1997/12/06 18:34
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #799
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 799
Today's Topics:
Re: Soul Mates [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
revelation [ "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu> ]
Be here NOW [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Re: soul mates and Karma [ "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhot ]
Re: Enlightenment [ Gloria <glorybeATnospamintrepid.net> ]
Re: Soul Mates [ freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net> ]
Re: About reincarnation [ Susanne Macrae <smacraeATnospamcamtech.net ]
Re: The shakes [ "F. Drew " <leydaATnospamvalunet.com> ]
Re: Some stupid questions about term [ "F. Drew " <leydaATnospamvalunet.com> ]
Re: chakras and Mahabharata-Krsna [ Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.c ]
Re: Council of Constantinople and re [ "F. Drew " <leydaATnospamvalunet.com> ]
Re: soul mates and Karma [ anon-17706ATnospamanon.twwells.com (Croato ]
Re: Council of Constantinople and re [ Charles Michael Beaver <yodaATnospamband1. ]
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:27:57 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, veroungerATnospamearthlink.net
Subject: Re: Soul Mates
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971206074621.27700A-100000ATnospamuhunix4>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi M: Your story about your soul friend is most moving to me... >>I just
had to let him go right then and there. I mean we always said we loved
each other. It was suddenly obvious that I wasn't being very loving.
That night I was awakened by him. He stood at the end of the bed we had
sometimes shared. He was mostly light, but all him. He thanked me so
very deeply . . .(There was more too.) It was the most profound
experience of my life for about 10 years. It was years before I could or
did share it with anyone. >>>
This is such a powerful understanding. When you can go beyond your
personal needs and lift yourself into the domain of the sacred, the
highest good for the beloved becomes the highest goodfor ALL. It is the
true meaning of love.
I have just had to learn another lesson about unconditional love with my
teacher. I was being harrassed by a very powerful man from many past
lives. When he came into my life I was expecting a tidal wave.. and it was
him. He had been trained in the CIA and knew every mind-control trick in
the book, and he decided to take me away from my spiritual affiliation and
take over my entire life and he set about doing this. It was oppressive
and dark in every way and I felt trapped. I went to my teacher's ashram to
escape and I got sent back to this situation with him with the message,
"You can handle it!" I felt totally betrayed. I went into deep
depression.
BUT I never gave up, struggling to overcome this oppression. Then
one day I noticed that where he had been a junk food eater and a
smoker, where he had been a money-grabbing advertising co. chief always
looking out to make not just 10%, but 200% profit on all his projects,
he had slowly become a vegetarian, and as a billionaire owner he had
ruled all his employees world wide to do the same. He was suddenly
supporting causes for orphans,elephants, tigers and dolphins etc. and he
was taking off to the forest with his fax/modem/voice-activated/
satellite-hook-up computer and delegating his work to subordinates. He won
a major humanitarian award for his social projects. And Ican tell you that
the reason the elephant situation has improved in the last five years is
because of him... that is how powerful he is.
And it struck me that it was because I had been influencing HIM...he was
the one who was being transformed!!
With the help of a good therapist and some loyal friends, I gradually
found my power to limit his control..(I hope this encourages anyone
who is suffering a similar fate from controlling people. ) and I had
learned some valuable methods of dealing with this type of being...I had
found my OWN power... and I have been able to help others because of this.
There is also one less money-grabbing tycoon sucking the life out of the
planet!
It is all so complex, but the bottom line
is-- my teacher was right. I could handle it. It took me 8 years!! BUT
Had my teacher rescued me, I should not have found my own power and
learned a lot about dealing with dark forces. My teacher trusted in me and
with unconditional love sent me back to grow and prosper. I look back now
and realize that hers was the most loving act for me...even though at the
time it seemed like betrayal. I have since found the courage to do this
for my daughter in her adventures into life.. So M. you got me thinking
about unconditional love.. and how it works.
Thanks.
*****
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:38:17 -0500
From: "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: revelation
Message-Id: <199712061848.NAA02836ATnospamhoboken>
Hi,
I had a personal revelation today while I was taking a shower. (For
some reason, most of my revelations take place in the shower.) I realize
that my little revelations may be old hat to many of you, but I wanted to
share this one because just writing it down drives the point home to me
more.
For years, I have felt that our expectations of one another are the most
damaging thing in interpersonal relationships---a parent's expectations of
a child, a child's of the parents; the expectations of a spouse or lover,
or a friend or neighbor. For years, I have worked on this trait in myself,
and slowly I seemed to make progress.
I realized quite some time ago that I can't change others, but only myself.
I've
prayed about this tendency in myself and have tried to release all
expectations, and leave room only for unconditional love. Not easy to do.
I thought that I had reached the non-expectation stage long ago in my
dealings with a male relative. I had accepted that he was not going to
change, but was going to continue to repeat certain negative patterns
because that was the way of things.
Then, today, the revelation: I realized that I had not reached that stage
with him at all, but only altered it. All this time, I had been expecting
him
NOT to change. I had frozen him within my perceptions. I began to
wonder then how often I had done this, how often I had *expected* no change
and made room for none in my judgment. Pretty often, I'm sorry to say.
Perhaps we hinder people just as much by expecting negative patterns to
continue as by holding them to the impossible goals we often set by
expecting positive change.
Trying to set my expectations to neutral....
Love,
Sharon
shawebbATnospamyhc.edu
A new fractal gallery was posted to this site on November 29th, '97:
http://home1.gte.net/itriazon/Sharon.htm
USA Today Hot Site; Cosmic Site of the Night: Cool Central Site of the Day;
ENC Digital Dozen for June '97; Enchantment Award; ArtSearch Featured Site;
NetTech NeatTech: Best of the Web in Educational Technology; Eye Candy
Honorable Mention
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:57:50 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamEXECPC.COM
Subject: Be here NOW
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971206085036.27700E-100000ATnospamuhunix4>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Someone on another list found this little nugget.
>>>known as Von Neumann's Proof, developed by Hungarian-born
> physicist Janus Eric Von Neumann and published in the 1930's in
> his book The Mathematical Foundations of Quantum Physics, known
> even today as "the bible" among quantum physicists. (More about
> Von Neumann later.) Other developments have demonstrated that
> time as it is commonly conceived of, a linear progression from
> past to present to future, does not ultimately exist.
>
> Experiments conducted at Columbia University in the early 1970s
> proved that a decision made by an observer/researcher which
> determines whether or not a photon has traveled as a wave or a
> particle (by either causing or not causing wave interference),
> and which is made after the photon is emitted into a multi-
> mirrored device (which considerably delays its journey), will
> also determine the state of that photon at the time it is
> emitted -- showing that the present does affect the past and
> thus the future can affect the present. Therefore all time is
> in actuality simultaneous; what we call past and future exist
> "now".
-------------------
This is totally empowering. Yes there is reincarnation but in the body
form.. in the physical, but does it alter the fact that going far enough
into the center of ourselves we find we are timeless and infinite? No!
So the answer to whether such a thing as reincarnation exists surely must
be YES and NO!
It is empowering because we can shape the past.. we are not bound to
repeat it. If we can enter that place where it is eternally NOW, we can
influence what we were in our imaginary past and what we will become in
our imaginary future .(English is very limited in this arena..!)
This is to me the AGE of AQUARIUS.. the age where we find ourselves in
this multidimensional realm which is our true inheritance...somehow
snatched from us in the Fall from grace.
I have news.. GRACE IS BACK!
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:01:37 PST
From: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, jaxxATnospamihug.co.nz
Subject: Re: soul mates and Karma
Message-Id: <199712062001.MAA14833ATnospamf85.hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hello,
You wrote:
snip
>the reason I am writing now and not doing my usual lurking thing is
that
>this passage hit me quite hard and I dont know how to deal with what is
>going on.
snip
if from the perspectiveif someone loved me enough to play the part of
>>tormentor in this life so i may grow to know what it is to extend
>>unconditional love and forgiveness to them and myself [and so heal
>>myself]...
>I have a friendship with a man snip ... at other
>times he has been abusive, aggressive, and really hurt me and destroyed
the
>trust that was between us.
snip
I am/have
>been fearful around some sexual matters and am unorgasmic... something
I
>took to be 'just bad luck' - one of the few percentile of woman like
this...
>I have since questioned why I should accept this as being so...
>
>My question to the list is what to do about getting over this... the
above
>caption brought tears to my eyes... I dont know how to react to this
man...
>I dont believe it to be fair to him to punish him or lash out hurt
because
>of what he did in a different time, <indeed he may be trapped into
repeating
>old patterns too>, I dont know how to forgive and 'respect that fact he
has
>chosen to torment he in this life so I may get over things'
>I dont know what to do...
I want to say to you up front first that I can only speak to you out of
my own experiences, my own feelings of what I have discovered about this
for me. It may serve you or it may not.
Regardless of the origin, the etiology of abuse, there is no
justification for it in any form...whether its because of something from
centuries ago (or whatever the explanation for reincarnation is these
days) or something that happened 1o minutes ago. This includes all
forms of psycho-spiritual-emotional-physical-social or self abuse.
It stops NOW. In looking at my own life I have discovered that wisdom
erases karma...or in lay terms...understanding begins the stopping of
the cycle.
And in my experience, knowing is just the first step in breaking free.
Knowing there has been a problem and realizing this is not what you want
in your life is a powerful first step. Congratulations...many people
never get even to that level of awareness, they just know they are
miserable.
I wish I could tell you that every time knowledge comes, the veil is
lifted and we are set free from what binds us. Doesn't seem to happen
to me very often. I have to practice a new way of seeing of my self and
of others, every day. I have to practice a new way of living every
moment. Some day I hope my life will be effortless flow..but not there
yet. :-)
[I want you to know that as I write these words, every word returns to
pierce my heart, wounding me, revealing unhealed parts within still, its
how my feelings tell me what is so].
The first thing I would do...if I were you and I know you aren't :-)...
is say no to all the abuse. Being a martyr to help someone else sucks
the big one. It only invites more people who like to be persecutors
into your life to perpetuate the cycle. [I feel you want to
transcend/transform this cycle into something better...I could be wrong
though.] There is always a better way...than owing karmic debts to the
1st bank of Life. I would also do this...see where I perpetuate this
pattern with everyone I have a relationship with too...not in just this
one.
Secondly, because I know now what I don't want its time for me to
understand what it is I do want. The reason why I can have what I want
are varied...I find different ones every time I look. Mainly, its
because I am worth it and I can. And sometimes I dont feel that way and
yet I now know 'being worth it' and 'I can' are true...a place where my
feelings are not always trustworthy..[but in that sadness a sign post
can be found to examine deeper where those feelings come from.]
And I do know now I dont have to know where all these feelings come
from...to peel the onion down to the primary hurt, layer after layer
before I can move forward and begin to experience joy today.
If this is a severe problem in your life, I would seek outside help at
first until you can take steps on your own, especially if the only steps
you can take right now are baby steps. It is easy to push babies down
when they are beginning to learn to walk. I know this from my own
experience. I needed strong structure around me while a new paradigm
was being built into my body and life...I would call it hard wire
rewiring and the flow of k is excellent for this.
You also asked about forgiveness. In my own experience, forgiving
myself for what I felt, thought, said or did in this situation would be
one of the primary things to do first and give yourself permission to
love yourself enough to have what you really wanted in the first place,
to love and be loved. I would forgive myself by actually standing in
front of a mirror and saying 'I forgive you Jacqueline for.....' When
the feelings and maybe even tears come up...dont push them down or try
to analyze it. Feelings are just another terminology for energy.
Feeling those feelings is really feeling the energy flow being released
in your body from the blocks which reside within. These energetic blocks
manifest themselves as things we dont want in our lives.
This is why people show up, IMO, to show us where those blocks are.
They are our mirror so we can look within and let things go, blessing
those blocks as they dissolve, knowing the release brings us into a
higher awareness, a sweeter experience of the Divine...and my life
starts to work better.
When feelings/energy starts to move often times fear comes with it. Just
notice the fear and keep breathing. If you stop breathing the fear may
get stuck around the block and it may be awhile before you can access it
again. Fear is an energy pattern too.
When a person stops breathing during an energy flow [and everybody holds
their breath when they get scared], its because of fear of something
that is in the past or in the future to come. Becoming conscious of our
breathing in the present time of now, brings us/me to the power point of
conscious choosing. Standing in the Now, all things are possible.
Remaining in the Now as you move thru these experiences will empower you
beyond belief cause it is in that place that powerful life changing
choices are made. And truthfully, the Now is the only time/place there
really is.
Conscious breathing always brings people into the present time of Now.
It keeps the energy moving. And honestly, from my own experiences, I get
scared just from feeling the power of that energy sometimes and yet that
fear is also the same energy as excitement. It just depends
on our perspective. Something new is coming my/our way...a new way of
seeing, feeling, experiencing. The newness threatens old survival
programs. What is new is unfamiliar and therefore scary and could hurt
me bad [my little ego self tells me]. And just by breathing we can ease
ourself into the newness of these new energy patterns coming in and
forming to serve us in a better way.
I would also write down your experiences as soon as possible and
discover what new choices you are making for your self and remind your
self of these new choices. Do state them in the positive as in I choose
to have loving partners in my life...rather than I choose to not be
abused any more. The mind only hears things spoken in an affirmation
..so what it hears is :'I choose to be abused any more'.
kinda scary what we do unconsciously to ourselves I think...no wonder
self sabotage is so common.
I would keep a journal...write down your new choices in it. Then make
concrete descriptions about what those new conscious choices are going
to look like in your every day life. It makes a map for the
subconscious to follow.
And like everything else...this takes practice and practice and
practice. Just make sure you practice perfect. And some days you are
going to screw up and want to give up. Just keep on going anyway, taking
your steps..getting closer and closer to what you want...and farther and
farther away from what you don't want.
And you may discover...as I have about myself...that healing begins to
happen in those around me without me intervening in their lives at all.
One last thing....if I were you...I would practice seeing the Divine and
only the Divine in your friend no matter what comes up. This is a very
hard/difficult spiritual practice. Sounds simple but it doesn't seem to
be very easy for me, at least in the beginning. This is the essence of
the word Namaste. I have discovered people throw the word Namaste around
and never really practice what it means...if I/we did it would truly
transform the world IMHO.
Oh, one more thing, I promise, see if there are any breathworkers where
you live...such as rebirthers (Leonard Orr's methodology) or holotropic
breathwork (Stanislov Grov's methodology). I personally am much more
familiar with rebirthing and it s simple power to promote self healing
and both methods are very popular.
you will find pages about these types of breathing on the web.
If you have any more questions or concerns...feel free to ask me and
remember your Higher Self will never let you experience anything that
you cant handle.
Much love,
Susan
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 15:51:25 -0500
From: Gloria <glorybeATnospamintrepid.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971206155125.00713ffcATnospamintrepid.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:37 PM 12/5/97 -0800, you wrote:M wrote
>
>
>
> "The thing you are looking for is what is looking."
>
> St. Francis (I think)
>
>
>
>M
>
>Gloria Lee here..
Maybe St. Francis did also..but there is a Rumi quote like this too.
Do not look for God
Look for the one looking for God.
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 14:26:18 -0800
From: freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net>
To: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
CC: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com,
veroungerATnospamearthlink.net
Subject: Re: Soul Mates
Message-ID: <3489D10A.B52ATnospamblarg.net>
So, Ruth...
Having found such wisdom for yourself, I would expect that when you say:
> I have since found the courage to do this for my daughter in her
adventures into life..
that you did as your teacher did and sent her back to her situation with
with the message, "You can handle it!"
--
Freda ~ BE-IS-AM
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/01rg/hm/frhm.htm
ICQ # 4323543
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 09:30:59 +1030
From: Susanne Macrae <smacraeATnospamcamtech.net.au>
To: DonBBenson <DonBBensonATnospamaol.com>
CC: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: About reincarnation
Message-ID: <3489D92B.7BFFATnospamcamtech.net.au>
DonBBenson wrote:
>
> we walk around in just four dimensions - three dimensions of space (height,
> width, and depth) and one dimension of time (linear, historical time). But in
> three dimensions of time - which we can experience in heightened K
> consciousness - the entire 10-20 billion years of astrophysical history and
> the entire 6171 years of human history since Adam and Eve can be seen Right
> Now.
>
The dimensions I'm in, in heightened K consciousness, show me a lot more
than 6171 years of human history.
Love sue
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:03:03 -0800
From: "F. Drew " <leydaATnospamvalunet.com>
To: "DonBBenson" <DonBBensonATnospamaol.com>, <oriATnospameskimo.com>,
<kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Cc: <CRCrierATnospamaol.com>
Subject: Re: The shakes
Message-Id: <01bd02bc$a22542a0$d2061aceATnospamdefault.valunet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
From: DonBBenson <DonBBensonATnospamaol.com>
>Friend, you're in good company. Not only individuals, but whole nations
and
>even the earth itself are said in Scripture to tremble, shake or quake
before
>the Lord. Any standard reference work on the Bible and religion or church
>history will show that in every major revival or spiritual awakening in
Jewish
>and Christian history, many have experienced <<the shakes>>.
**********************
And many other people too !
*
Drew
" So Far; So Good "
leydaATnospamvalunet.com
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:06:54 -0800
From: "F. Drew " <leydaATnospamvalunet.com>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>, <ks-listATnospamnbn.com>,
"Mystress Angelique Serpent" <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Subject: Re: Some stupid questions about terminology and progress.
Message-Id: <01bd02bd$2c33aae0$d2061aceATnospamdefault.valunet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
> Full enlightenment, for instance.. is that the whole deal where you walk
>on water and stuff, or do some folks attain full enlightenment without
>miracles
******
No, You have to walk on water. hehehehehehehe
*
Drew
" So Far; So Good "
leydaATnospamvalunet.com
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:23:25 +1100 (EDT)
From: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: chakras and Mahabharata-Krsna
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.971207112208.24423B-100000ATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, anandajyoti wrote:
> Paramahamsa Yogananda, has written on the Bhgavad Gita on similar lines.
> Yogananda's Commentary on the Gita was published by SRF just last year.
> Have you seen it? Yogananda had written before he breathed his last. Yet
No haven't seen it - any electronic copy available (that about all I read
these days).
dd
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:20:47 -0800
From: "F. Drew " <leydaATnospamvalunet.com>
To: "DonBBenson" <DonBBensonATnospamaol.com>, <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>,
<kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Council of Constantinople and reincarnation
Message-Id: <01bd02bf$1c723de0$d2061aceATnospamdefault.valunet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
From: DonBBenson <DonBBensonATnospamaol.com>
>I think we can all agree that the doctrine of reincarnation has been around
a
>long time. When Adam and Eve died after the serpent said to the woman,
"You
>will not surely die." you don't suppose the serpent repented and stopped
>lying, do you? Doesn't the record show that he kept right on lying to
cover
>up his original lie? The doctrine of reincarnation is a pack of lies
designed
>to muddy the waters and obscure the facts regarding life and death;
>resurrection and judgment; heaven and hell.
*****
I do not understand the logic of this paragraph. How do you get from Eve to
reincarnation ? Through the Serpent ? I think you are comparing apples to
oranges.
*
Drew
" So Far; So Good "
leydaATnospamvalunet.com
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 00:25:57 GMT
From: anon-17706ATnospamanon.twwells.com (Croaton)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: jaxxATnospamihug.co.nz
Subject: Re: soul mates and Karma
Message-ID: <348fed10.29436994ATnospammailhost.worldnet.att.net>
at other times he has been abusive, aggressive, and really hurt me
and destroyed the trust that was between us.
Advice and comments welcome...
...jacqueline
I would go with the previous poster's advice. There is no reason or
excuse for abuse of any kind.
Jack
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 04:40:58 -0600
From: Charles Michael Beaver <yodaATnospamband1.bandwidth.net>
To: Sharon Webb <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Council of Constantinople and reincarnation---errata
Message-Id: <34892BBA.2FA1AEA5ATnospamband1.bandwidth.net>
Dear Everyone Interested:
Try http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/const2.html
If you know of a better link than this on the subject or any info. relating to
actual church documents
on this subject please let me know.
Sharon Webb wrote:
> Don,
>
> I should have taken the time to proof read my letter to this list. It
> contained three typos/errors. Here it is again corrected:
>
> I wrote to Mike:
> > << From The Anathemas Against Origen (5th Ecumenical Council of
> > Constantinople, 553 AD.)
> >
> > "If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert
> > the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema."
>
> And you wrote to me:
> You have provided
> > evidence of their mighty struggles to distinguish truth from error. But
> where
> > is your evidence that God ever taught or approved the teaching of
> > reincarnation?
>
> I'm afraid you missed the point of my post. Mike asked if I could provide
> a reference to reincarnation from the 5th Ecumenical Council of
> Constantinople. I did.
>
> The point of the letter was to show that reincarnation was an accepted
> belief in the Christian millieu until 553 years after the birth of Jesus.
>
> You also wrote:
> > It was no easy task for the early church councils (1) to make clear
> > distinctions between (a) what is true according to the word of God and
> (b)
> > what is false and (2) to build the church on truth.
>
> I read quite a bit of the text of the 5th Ecumenical Council and found
> little of the "word of God," but quite a bit of the word of the Emperor
> Justinian I.
>
> I also found this reference:
> --------------------------------
> In AD 548, Empress Theodora had about 500 former acquaintances executed to
> hide the embarrassing fact that she had been a very prominent and brazen
> prostitute. In denial over having to face karma for her actions, she
> pressed on Emperor Justinian to demand of the church that it ban the
> doctrine of reincarnation, which at that time was very popular.
> --------------------------------
> And this page called Scriptural Support For Reincarnation:
>
> http://www.iloveusa.com/Secrets/origen3.html
>
> BTW, this reference is of interest. Comments in brackets are mine:
> --------------------------------
> It [the council] was presided over by the incumbent patriarch of
> Constantinople, Eutychius, with the presence of 165 bishops. Pope Vigilius
> [the titular head of the church] had been summoned by the Emperor, but he
> opposed the council and took refuge in a church in Constantinople. He was
> not present at the deliberations, nor was he represented.
> --------------------------------
>
> Don, you can make anything you want of these references. And so can I. I
> have no interest in entering into further exchanges about this.
>
> I have no interest in what you believe, nor do I have any desire to change
> it. In my opinion, proselytising does not belong on this list, if indeed
> it belongs anywhere at all. We each have our own path, and yours
> (although you would undoubtedly deny this) is no more sacred than anyone
> else's.
>
> Love, really....
> Sharon
> shawebbATnospamyhc.edu
> A new fractal gallery was posted to this site on November 29th, '97:
> http://home1.gte.net/itriazon/Sharon.htm
> USA Today Hot Site; Cosmic Site of the Night: Cool Central Site of the Day;
> ENC Digital Dozen for June '97; Enchantment Award; ArtSearch Featured Site;
> NetTech NeatTech: Best of the Web in Educational Technology; Eye Candy
> Honorable Mention
--
Sincerely;
Mike Beaver
yodaATnospamband1.bandwidth.net
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GET ICQ. It's a great peer to peer (direct) communications package that lets
you
talk directly to people. My # is 2994374.
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http://www.bandwidth.net/yoda
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