1997/12/05 01:28
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #793
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 793
Today's Topics:
RE: dreams [ Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.co ]
Depression Month [ veroungerATnospamearthlink.net ]
depression, therapy, crisis et al [ "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhot ]
Council of Constantinople and reinca [ "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu> ]
fwd: Drunvalo Melchizedek [ "Kenneth J. Becker" <kjbeckerATnospamcais. ]
Re: The shakes [ DonBBenson <DonBBensonATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: What is going on? [ LibraKat11 <LibraKat11ATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Enlightenment [ Susanne Macrae <smacraeATnospamcamtech.net ]
Re: Enlightenment and the I [ Susanne Macrae <smacraeATnospamcamtech.net ]
Re: What is Going On? [ Susanne Macrae <smacraeATnospamcamtech.net ]
Re: Realization [ anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities. ]
Re: Depression Month [ Morgana Wyze <morganaATnospambest.com> ]
Re: bodily fluids - changed to Krsna [ anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities. ]
Re: Alignment of Planets [ anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities. ]
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:17:18 -0500
From: Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>
To: NancyATnospamwtp.net
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: RE: dreams
Message-ID: <B982B2DC7C0ED111804600805F850AB218D417ATnospamEX-DENVER-U1>
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Good question, Nancy -
>I am curious...how do others view dreams? I used
> to think that they represented my psychological
> work and processes. E.g., I am stressed so I
> dream of having to row a boat against a stream
> before I get pulled down a waterfall. <snip>
>Lately, I have concluded that I experience very real
> energetic interactions during my dreams. I am
> encountering the soul stuff of others and they are
> encountering my soul stuff. I have dreams where I
> encounter the energy of an event which has not yet
> happened.<snip>
You give three possible interpretations - a psychological
outlet or workspace, communication with other souls,
and precognitive. I would say dreams could be any of the
three (since I've personally encountered all three). One of
the challenges of dreamworking was figuring out which
was which. Sometimes they can even overlap - a friend
of mine and his wife shared a dream which symbolically
played out issues they needed to work through in their
relationship (it was wonderful to watch their growth in
understanding of spiritual things, as before this they had
not believed that sharing dreams was even possible -
too much like telepathy and "occult" stuff :-).
I usually assume first that a dream deals with something
inside myself (psychological). If that doesn't make sense,
I look at the other two as possibilities. It's different with
lucid dreams (dreams where you are aware you are in a
dream) - those are influenced greatly by what I am trying
to do in the dream, so I start with whichever form fits best
my dream intentions, but that usually makes them easier
to interpret (not always, though).
There is always a need to be careful when interpreting
dreams, since interpretations will be filtered through our
current belief systems. Let me give an example from my
own dreams (highly edited - it was very long and loaded
with meaning and symbolism, more so than any dream
I've had before or since):
The first part of my dream involved a long search for a
special sword, which for me represented Truth. One very
vivid scene in the second part involved me standing on a
knoll in a clearing in the middle of a forest holding this
sword, and at the edge of the trees hovered a flying snake
made of fire, whose body was twisted into a spiral (any
of you want to guess what that represented? :-) The snake
flew at me, and I struck at it with the sword but missed.
Turning, I saw it coming at me again, and again struck at
it and hit. The snake disappeared, and I felt something
which I didn't recognize and quickly forgot about. At the
time I was in a reactionary mode against occult stuff, so
I interpreted this as a call to a ministry opposing the
occult, in agreement with suggestions my pastor had
made to me not long before. Later, as my whole view of
God's purpose for me changed, I forgot about the dream.
Only recently (namely today when I read your message
and things clicked) did I remember the dream and realize
what that really meant. The sword was *Truth*. In striking
the snake (I recognized it as Kundalini) I was not really
"attacking" K. but holding it up in my own life to the light
of Truth. The first time I would fail (witness my incorrect
interpretation the first time), but the second time I would
succeed and K. would become a part of me - the feeling
was the fire entering my being and suffusing me with a -
what? I still can't describe it well. But I am completely
certain that right now I am experiencing the fulfillment of
the "second strike" in my dream.
Other things I interpreted correctly - the dream introduced
me to my wife six years before I met her, showed me some
misconceptions I had about God and my parents, and a
lot more - but I was not ready to see the truth about K in
my life, so correct interpretation of that part of the dream
had to wait while I grew in my understanding.
Hope that helps some. Happy dreaming!
- Mike Stickles
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:12:53 -0500
From: veroungerATnospamearthlink.net
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Depression Month
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19971204221253.0079a900ATnospamearthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I was reading through the kundalini-list and my eyes caught the subject
about the depression month. I dont think I have in my entire life
experienced a worsed month. Indeed, I have lost the trust and the
complicity of the most wonderful person this earth has ever known, I am
depressed indeed I have lost my soulmate.
You probably wonder how this can be possible, well it happens, since it has
just happened to me.
Recently, through my readings, I had learned that soulmates could have very
stormy relationships if they were to meet. Ours was the most beautiful
relationship, but the stormiest too. Our Love was bigger than the universe
and so strong nothing could have ever destroyed it, except us.
The fault is all mine, I was impatient, didn't understand the changes my
soulmate was going through, I was confused, and so attached to him.
I should have given him time, patience would have been wise, dettached
myself from him should have been done. If I had open the eyes of my heart,
maybe he would still care for me today.
It is too late now, tears roll down my face everyday, I could have killed
myself for having betrayed him. However, I have to live with it, and try to
find peace and answers to why, I had to finally found him to loose him
almost a year later.
God is Good and I have turned myself entire to "him", to find peace within me.
I know the healing process will seem to take forever, but it is the route I
have to follow in order to grow spiritually.
I am now in the hands of God and I am convinced that he will guide me and
give me answers to my prayers.
I know one thing though, my soulmate will never be replaced in my heart. I
will faithfully love him in silence FOR EVER.
Sorry for having written so much, but it has helped me ease the pain a little.
A depressed Soul
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 19:47:14 PST
From: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: depression, therapy, crisis et al
Message-ID: <19971205034714.10386.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear friends,
Since being on this list since spring, I watch a lot of
things/problems/joys cycle through here. The faces may change
but the stories are so very similar. Those of us who have been here
awhile can tell you that generally these problems are transient, to be
expected, and yes can be very painful. This is in no way meant to
diminish the experiences of us all.
Because of this I think it bears repeating that there are many
resources available for helping you/us thru K "crisis"...maybe some even
locally. Here is one you might check out with some great links.
It even helps you find therapists locally who are familiar with K
phenomenon.
Spiritual Emergence Network
http://elfnet1a.elfi.com/sen/
Blessings,
Susan
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:16:47 -0500
From: "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Council of Constantinople and reincarnation
Message-Id: <199712050426.XAA08506ATnospamhoboken>
Mike,
I wrote:
> It is my understanding that the Council of
>Constantinople deleted all references from the
>original bible to reincarnation.
Then you wrote:
>>Do you have a reference for that? I've heard that idea
mentioned a couple of times, but so far nobody I've
talked to seems to know where it came from, or to
have any idea what the "original references" actually
said (in quotes only because I haven't been able to
verify their existence - please don't take it as derisive).
I'd really like to find out what the basis is for that belief.>>
Here is a quote:
>From The Anathemas Against Origen (5th Ecumenical Council of
Constantinople, 553 AD.)
"If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert
the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema."
For more information, you might want to look at these two web sites:
http://www.teleport.com/~jhjensen/gnosis/sri/reincarn.htm
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/const2.html
Sharon
shawebbATnospamyhc.edu
A new fractal gallery was posted to this site on November 29th, '97:
http://home1.gte.net/itriazon/Sharon.htm
USA Today Hot Site; Cosmic Site of the Night: Cool Central Site of the Day;
ENC Digital Dozen for June '97; Enchantment Award; ArtSearch Featured Site;
NetTech NeatTech: Best of the Web in Educational Technology; Eye Candy
Honorable Mention
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:15:42 -0500
From: "Kenneth J. Becker" <kjbeckerATnospamcais.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: fwd: Drunvalo Melchizedek
Message-Id: <BeyondMail.3.0.8812949042kjbeckerATnospamcais.com>
Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary="BeyondBoundary_3_Thu_Dec_04_23:15:46_1997__18BE"
All Interested,
I just received this update regarding an interview of Drunvalo Melchizedek
on a Baltimore, Maryland radio station. Also see previous post by
CHBABAATnospamaol.com for station information.
Respectfully,
Ken Becker
---------- Original Text ----------
From: ZohandBobHATnospamaol.com, on 12/4/97 10:58 PM:
To: kjbeckerATnospamcais.com
Ken Becker,
Sorry to take a while to respond to your question. Hope this reaches you in
time. Drunvalo will be on air with The Zoh Show tomorrow December 5, 1997
from 10AM -11 AM Eastern time. If you miss it, however, you can order a tape
for $10.00 to Hieronimus & Co. POB 648 Owings Mills, MD 21117.
Sincerely,
Laura Cortner
Executive Producer
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X-BeyondMail: rtf1
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\Beyond1.rtf"
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:21:43 EST
From: DonBBenson <DonBBensonATnospamaol.com>
To: oriATnospameskimo.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: CRCrierATnospamaol.com
Subject: Re: The shakes
Message-ID: <2b8f25f.34878159ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 97-12-04 00:07:19 EST, oriATnospameskimo.com writes:
<< I am able to still the shaking when I need to-- when I'm walking
around at work for example, but as soon as I'm back in a quiet
private place the shaking starts again. It has never been this
steady before. It kind of took me by surprise.
>>
Friend, you're in good company. Not only individuals, but whole nations and
even the earth itself are said in Scripture to tremble, shake or quake before
the Lord. Any standard reference work on the Bible and religion or church
history will show that in every major revival or spiritual awakening in Jewish
and Christian history, many have experienced <<the shakes>>.
Why do you suppose members of the Society of Friends <<a mystical reform
movement in English Protestantism that grew out of the <Inner Light>
experiences and preaching of George Fox and other itinerant preachers in the
mid-seventeenth century>> were commonly called QUAKERS?
Following the First Great Awakening in the eighteenth century, the United
Society of Believers in Christ's Second Coming, or the Millennial Church,
became knowns as the Shaking QUAKERS, or the SHAKERS.
In the Second Great Awakening which began with the 1800 camp meeting revivals
of Gaspar River and Cane Ridge, Kentucky, many of the frontier men and women
who were baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire had prolonged and extensive
bouts of <<THE JERKS>>.
In the twentieth century, participants in the Pentecostal Holiness revival are
often described as <<HOLY ROLLERS>>.
Therefore, what you describe is a common manifiestation of baptism with the
Holy Spirit (aka K A) in individuals who have not been thoroughly prepared.
This process has accelerated (in fulfillment of Joel 2:28-29 and other
prophetic Scriptures) so that since 1967 tens of millions of people around the
world have been baptized with the Holy Spirit (in many cases, from the touch
of an anointed apostle, prophet, pastor or evangelist). Persons who are <born
again> in this way usually receive specific spiritual gifts such as the
ability to speak in other tongues (Acts 19:6). Temporary physical
manifestations may include <<THE SHAKES>>.
So you see, this strangeness is not just you and a few other special yogis and
yogins but is currently being endured by millions of born again Christians and
Hassidic Jews around the world. Rejoice!
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:01:11 EST
From: LibraKat11 <LibraKat11ATnospamaol.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: What is going on?
Message-ID: <871eb424.3487a6b9ATnospamaol.com>
Dear List:
Several have commented on the *energy* lately, so I'll try to tell you what
I've been seeing. I've not posted in a long time, so for those who don't know
me, since an NDE, I'm able to see energy that seems to be generated around the
planet. It's sort of like seeing things in the etheric before they manifest
in the physical.
We've been in a 4-part (so far!) process since August. It involves our
physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual aspects. Each aspect has lasted
about 4-6 weeks and we've been in the mental phase since late October. This
is a very complex process and involves the chakras (starting with the root, so
the mental phase corresponds with the solar plexus) and also with the the
etheric bodies surrounding us. Each phase doesn't just start and stop, but
rather is a base for the next phase.
A funny aside --- When I questioned why things seemed to be getting more
difficult, I was shown a stack of 4 pancakes (!!?) to illustrate the *phases*
and a bottle of syrup being poured over them and saturating them. Funny
image, but then guidance can be really humorous! I understood that it meant
the phases were *layered* on each other and that the energy involved was
flowing within, around, and through all 4 layers -- the phys., emot., ment.,
and spiritual.
The length of time for each phase seems to be somewhat personalized for each
individual, but for the spiritual phase, I received a date -- 12-15-1997.
This appears to be a date that we're now building up (as well as tearing down)
for. The whole process involves building our *structure*, our inner core and
tearing down the parts we no longer need. Many people I know (including
me!!!) have had lots of issues come up (including some with past life origins)
that relate to the different phases.
This whole thing seems to be an aid for what will be coming in mid January.
As always, It's an option to do the work, but I'm sure we'll be better off for
having done it when the new stuff starts. I'm not sure of an actual date on
that, but I do know it's January. I was shown a bridge which I assume leads
to the higher chakras and finer vibrations of the outer etheric bodies. If
anyone's interested, I can let you know when I get new info.
This was pretty much off topic, but Hope this helps some of you. Christmas
holidays should be very interesting!!
Enjoy your *pancakes*!
Love, Kat
<< >> Tim Duna wrote:
>>> > Does anyone know what's going on with the REALLY heavy energy days
today
>>> > and this past weekend? Yesterday, it felt like I was getting an
earthen
>>> > lightbody (crystalline body, not merkaba), coming from below instead of
>>> > from above. But also, I felt like I was getting another body coming
from
>>> > above, like a spiritual layer to the lightbody descending, or something
>>> > like that. Anyone else feel this, or have something to say about it?
>>>
>>> hmmm.. you said it pretty well my friend... I too have been getting all
>>> kinds of *strange* energy ...transformations...but mine seems o be
>>> manifesting through the heart chakra... and the solar plexus...
>>>
>>> Different strokes for different folks ???
>>
>>It really seems that way. I've been going through a difficult crisis
>>in the last few days, too. It's over now, but it wasn't very easy,
>>especially for my close ones, if you know what I mean. ;)
>>
>>**
>>* Vjera Lopina e-mail: vlopinaATnospamfilolog.hfi.hr *
>>* Slovenska 19 Vjera.LopinaATnospamffzg.hr *
>>* 10000 ZAGREB, Croatia IRCnick: Marsovac *
>>**
>Tim:
I second the question...just re-phrased a bit...
My personal "sign" of lower digestive tract distress triggered about a
week and a half ago, and broke last Wed/Thurs - this is normally a sign
of heavy energy to come.
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 17:45:35 +1030
From: Susanne Macrae <smacraeATnospamcamtech.net.au>
To: THOMAS SMITH <TDVW36AATnospamprodigy.com>
CC: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment
Message-ID: <3487AA17.3EEATnospamcamtech.net.au>
Thomas Smith wrote:
"The big picture is IN us all...... you need not go any further then
Within yourself......there you shall find all your answers.....
This is a good point. MY big picture is surely within me and I may find
MY answers within. For others, their answers aren't within me. Their
truth resides within them not within me. The big picture within me is
only a subjective reality as far as anyone else is concerned. When
either you or I start presupposing our answers are also the answers for
everyone else, then we are passing judgements about that which we have
no true knowledge. I see the collective big picture as something that we
don't have access to - only our own reality which is accessible by all
- within.
"The soul speaks to you in feelings. Listen to your feelings.
Follow your feelings. Honor your feelings."
Feelings are the main avenue of expression for the ego. "Don't trust
your feelings" is often more appropriate. If I have a feeling that is
anything but the expression of pure and absolute love, then I know it
comes from the ego.
The expression of feelings by the ego is to find gratification not to
find love.
Love sue
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 17:47:43 +1030
From: Susanne Macrae <smacraeATnospamcamtech.net.au>
To: "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospamresearch1.bryant.edu>
CC: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment and the I
Message-ID: <3487AA97.2839ATnospamcamtech.net.au>
Harsh Luthar wrote:
"Realized Sages do agree on the experience of the Self. It is what it
is, the very Core of Being."
The experience of the Self is not the exposition of the Spiritual Path.
Perhaps the experience of the Self is the goal or desire of many on the
spiritual path, but it isn't the path. The teacher or guru who advocates
a specific spiritual path or direction has only their experience or
learning to base their teachings upon.
The point of my previous post was to express that an individual
experience is not the sum of the whole, yet whole and complete within
itself. Regardless of whether it is a realized sage, a spiritual leader
of thousands or merely you or I, by advocating others follow our path I
believe we do them a dis-service.
This doesn't exclude us from sharing what we have discovered along the
path, including the personal discovery or experience of the Self.
Love sue
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 17:49:45 +1030
From: Susanne Macrae <smacraeATnospamcamtech.net.au>
To: lodpressATnospamintercomm.com
CC: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: What is Going On?
Message-ID: <3487AB11.446EATnospamcamtech.net.au>
Gloria wrote:
Sue,
what is going on in your life? Is it a difficult time for you
during
holidays, it is easy to get caught up in activity and thinking during
this time since it is so emotionally charged, maybe even some stress
from desire, habit, feelings of previous Christmas, etc.
Regardless, we live at a fantastic time, with great potential
for those
aware enough to develop through one pointedness the detachment for
change. Like to hear more from you. Gloria
--
Hi,
I love Christmas, the holidays, the hustle and bustle. Now is a
wonderful time in my life. I've been achieving my goals, having
emotional and spiritual fulfillment, being at peace. Living in the love
of God and my family.
The despair I have been feeling seems bigger than me. Like when my
husband died in '88, the grief I felt was bigger than just my grief.
He had chosen not to pass over but clung to my presence and poured his
pain out to me. Unsuspecting, I took it on board and grieved for us
both.
Maybe this despair is also an attachment?
Love sue
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 23:44:58 -0800
From: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
To: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Realization
Message-ID: <3487B0F8.5A51ATnospamgeocities.com>
Ruth Trimble wrote:
> ......... What I figure happens is that the
> individual soul is awakened to K. by initiation in past lives, and merely
> finishes up in the lifetime where enlightenment seems to happen without K.
> Awakening.. what do you think?
> Ruth
> *****
Hello Ruth and Harsh!
Even in the Bhagavad Gita it has been mentioned, each of the souls are
on the path of soul evolution (meaning realizing it , withinand
expanding). Each of us have gone through many such expanding cycles, due
to our own volition in those lives and even in this one. According to
the Bhagavad Gita, nothing is ever lost in the continuum. Each birth,
brings in the spiritual achievement one has already gone through in
previous ones, and carries it forward,towards full enlightenment.
It also mentions by virtue of one's will power and natural inclination,
one can have the full realization even in one life time, if one chooses,
and the level of expansion or realization the particular person has gone
through in previous life times, are all remembered, and takes it
forward.
So, Ruth , you are right in your perspective of this aspect, and I find
your understanding very clear.
Anandajyoti
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 23:45:37 -0800
From: Morgana Wyze <morganaATnospambest.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Depression Month
Message-ID: <3487B121.5294ATnospambest.com>
I can't share in the concensus around depression month. After my
experiences of the summer, anything would look great...but this IS a
truly great time in my life. I want to offer a differing reality so that
we all don't get invested in "hell month" as a reality.
I have also learned (both in pain and in joy) not to invest in
externals, so that even the divorce in my life became OK, and great joys
also became OK. I'm still the same person, no matter what the
circumstances are, and that person is by choice quietly serene and
happy.
Morgana
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 23:54:34 -0800
From: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
To: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: bodily fluids - changed to Krsna story
Message-ID: <3487B339.2790ATnospamgeocities.com>
Dieter Dambiec wrote:
>
> > >...... They say that tears of happiness flow from the outer parts of the
> > eyes
> > >and tears of sadness from the inner parts.
Dieter: So very true. About the story, the one which you have stated, is
the literal, meaning of it, and for many of us even this useful.
On the other hand the kauravas or pandavas are our own negatives and
positives within us.Gandhari is symbolic of our conscience, the silent
voice within, but sometimes it becomes manifest very strongly, and
Krishna, the Soul within, a part of the whole.
Anandajyoti
http://www.geocities.com/Atehns/Forum/6782
> >
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 00:08:43 -0800
From: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
CC: Richard Wentk <richardATnospamskydancer.com>
Subject: Re: Alignment of Planets
Message-ID: <3487B68B.3394ATnospamgeocities.com>
Richard Wentk wrote:
>
> At 23:15 03/12/97 -1000, Ruth wrote:
>
> >Dear Tim and Lorri:
> >
> >Lorri wrote:
>
>.....snipped> But the Sun, Pluto, Saturn and Chiron aren't anywhere near the alignment,
> and energetically it's really not that significant. It just makes
> birthcharts a little lopsided, is all. Astrology can be pretty damn good at
> predicting 'energy weather', and astrologically none of what's happening
> now is *that* rare or outstanding.
>
> Snippede>The May 5th occurrence doesn't have 'all the planets in a row.' Most will
> be spread out over Taurus and Gemini, while Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are
> dotted around the rest of zodiac.
>
> Snipped>There is a somewhat challenging energy connection between the Taurus clump
> and Uranus on that date.
Hello list!
I am sure there are people on this list who are astrogically inclined in
the spiritual sense. One name comes to mind is that "tgxxx". May be
tgxxx could enlighten us more on the topic.
The pole shifting, could it be attributed to the shifting of the left
and right brain
connections, in the human brain. There are more 4 million nerves which
connect the two halves, currently, and not even ten percent of them are
energized or working in the humans today. Could these planetary
lineations cite some light in this area, through tgxxx's spirtual
astrology? Just a thought.
Anandajyoti
http://www.geocities.com/Athen/Forum/6782
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