1997/12/01 23:03
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #779
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 779
Today's Topics:
Re: Fw: Warning - Internet Virus Ale [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
Re: Virus Hoaxes [ "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu> ]
RE: Warning - Internet Virus Alert!! [ Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.co ]
Not ALL just MINE! [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Re: tantric schools (was Urddhavaret [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospamsynopsys.com> ]
Re: tantric schools (was Urddhavaret [ "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospamresearch ]
comment on DA FREE John [ =?iso-8859-1?Q?Galv=E1n_Jim=E9nez_M ]
Re: tantric schools (was Urddhavaret [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospamsynopsys.com> ]
Re: loving one another [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Re: Teacher [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:20:50 -0600 (CST)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: THOMAS SMITH <TDVW36AATnospamprodigy.com>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Warning - Internet Virus Alert!!
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971201162031.6664C-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Um...
i've seen that warning around for 2 years now at least.....
take care,
--debora a. orf
--dorf01ATnospammail.win.org
"do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never
withdraw yourself from them"--Zen saying
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:56:28 -0500
From: "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Virus Hoaxes
Message-Id: <199712012307.SAA08291ATnospamhoboken>
Thomas Smith wrote:
>This is NO JOKE!
Yes, it is and the joke's on you.
Here is a URL that will help set you straight. Please go to it and pay
particular attention to the section titled "Virus Hoaxes." And after this,
please check with antivirus web sites before you go spamming everybody
again.
http://www.mcafee.com/support/techdocs/vinfo/default.asp
Sharon
shawebbATnospamyhc.edu
A new fractal gallery was posted to this site on November 29th, '97:
http://home1.gte.net/itriazon/Sharon.htm
USA Today Hot Site; Cosmic Site of the Night: Cool Central Site of the Day;
ENC Digital Dozen for June '97; Enchantment Award; ArtSearch Featured Site;
NetTech NeatTech: Best of the Web in Educational Technology; Eye Candy
Honorable Mention
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:57:34 -0500
From: Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>
To: TDVW36AATnospamprodigy.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: Warning - Internet Virus Alert!!
Message-ID: <B982B2DC7C0ED111804600805F850AB217AA09ATnospamEX-DENVER-U1>
Content-Type: text/plain
I'm going to keep a copy of this handy for reply
purposes. Here we go again....
Please review the information at:
http://www.av.ibm.com/BreakingNews/HypeAlert/
This is the IBM AntiVirus Research Center. They have
identified a number of "viruses" to be hoaxes. Please
remember that simply opening an email does not
launch an attached executable, and a virus cannot be
launched via email text alone - only through an
attachment or encoded inclusion which is then run or
opened explicitly by the reader.
The link above is a great resource for real and "fake"
viruses around the world.
The "big 3" virus hoaxes I've seen so far are the
"Penpal Greetings" hoax (around since at least
December 19, 1996), the "Join The Crew" hoax
(around since at least May 20, 1997), and the
"Returned or Unable to Deliver" hoax (around
since at least June 4, 1997).
- Mike Stickles
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TDVW36AATnospamprodigy.com [SMTP:TDVW36AATnospamprodigy.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 30, 1997 5:00 PM
> To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
> Subject: Fw: Warning - Internet Virus Alert!!
>
> This is NO JOKE!
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> << Start of Forwarded message via Prodigy Mail >>
-----<BIG SNIP>-----
> Subject: Warning - Internet Virus Alert!!
>
> ***********************
> Beware!!
> Important!!
> This information was received this morning from IBM, please share it
> with
> anyone that might access the Internet: If anyone receives e-mail
> entitled
> "PENPAL GREETINGS!" please delete it WHITOUT READING IT!!!.
> This is a warning for all Internet users, there is a dangerous
> virus
> propagating
> across the Internet through an e-mail message entitled "PENPAL>
> GRETINGS!".
> DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY MESSAGE ENTITLED 'PENPAL GREETINGS!!".
> This message appears to be friendly letter asking you if you are
> interested in a penpal, but by the time you read the letter, it is
> too
> late.
> The "TROJAN HORSE" virus will have already infected the boot sector
> of your
> hard drive, destroying all of the data present. It is a self-
> replicating
> virus, and
> once the message is read, it will AUTOMATICALLY forward itself to
> anyone
> whose e-mail adress is present in YOUR mailbox!. This virus will
> DESTROY
> YOUR HARD DRIVE, and holds the potential to DESTROY the hard drive
> of
> anyone whose mail is in your IN BOX, and whose mail is in their in
> box and
> so
> on. If this virus keeps getting passed, it has the potential to do a
> great
> deal of damage to computer networks worldwide!!!!.
> Please, delete the message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" AS SOON AS
> YOU
> SEE IT!.
> Pass this message along to all of your friends and other readers of
> the
> newsgroups and mailing lists wich you are on so that they are not
> hurt by
> this
> DANGEROUS VIRUS!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> << End of Forwarded message >>
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:00:28 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Not ALL just MINE!
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971201124459.25759D-100000ATnospamuhunix4>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Antoine: See what I mean about misunderstanding: REad again what I
said: >>In MY experience, I have rarely ever found an American who > has
a > clue about this power. I have found men from other countries almost >
al > seem to know about it... and treat this behavior as the "norm"....
This does not INCLUDE ALL MEN... heaven forfend girl!**** Just the men I
have met since about 1980.... I have travelled and I also live in a
multi-ethnic island... lucky me! I have no rules about any of this sex
business.. contrary to what so many of you assumed. I write to put out
information for those who are unaware. I believe from the responses I got
that I did actually enlighten a few people. That was the intended
audience, and thus it served a purpose. The rest of you just got your
buttons pushed.****
I enjoyed all the responses.. THanks! It has been quite fun, entertaining
and a little bit like the Oprah show...
*****
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:44:25 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospamsynopsys.com>
To: hlutharATnospamresearch1.bryant.edu, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Cc: keutzerATnospamsynopsys.com
Subject: Re: tantric schools (was Urddhavareta)
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971201154423.00f316d8ATnospampcpo-1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Harsh states:
>You are right of course in virtually everything you stated. But you did
>not take into account the last paragraph of my note that you referred
>to. The gist of that last paragraph was "that great saints have arisen
>in all of these schools" and therefore I do not make particular
>distinctions.
So you're making differences (the three schools) without distinctions? :-)
Not to belabor the issue, but the point I was questioning was your the
assertion that:
> In the Kaula School,
>the focus shifts to acquiring material and psychic powers.
Now you may feel ``that great saints arise in every religion and tradition
and therefore I do not make particular distinctions'' but you nevertheless
made a statement about the Kaula school that is not consistent with my
understanding of it. So I offered an alternative view.
Anyway, I read your paper on the web. Are you in the lineage of Swami
Satyananda Saraswati or Swami Janakananda?
Kind Regards, Kurt
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 21:25:26 -0500
From: "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospamresearch1.bryant.edu>
To: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospamsynopsys.com>
CC: hlutharATnospambryant.edu, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: tantric schools (was Urddhavareta)
Message-ID: <34837195.5053ATnospamacad.bryant.edu>
The differences in approach and practice between the Samaya and Kaula
schools is well known and is historically established. I simply stated
that difference which has been amply noted by others. Still, I hold that
great saints may arise on any path. So again you are quite right. I
recognize the difference but do not make distinctions.
There are many good books on the topic (although not in the popular
literature). I mentioned "The Tantric Tradition" by Swami Agehananda
Bharati in my paper on the web. However, it is a scholarly work and only
useful for those who are already quite advanced in their knowledge.
Book knowledge is useful but Yoga and Tantra demands practical
experience. For that one has to get the proper instruction, regulate
one's conduct and meditate on the energy centers. Hatha Yoga, pranayama
and mantra meditation play a key role in Tantra for awakening the
Kundalini energy and leading her upwards.
Harsh
Kurt Keutzer wrote:
>
> Harsh states:
> >You are right of course in virtually everything you stated. But you did
> >not take into account the last paragraph of my note that you referred
> >to. The gist of that last paragraph was "that great saints have arisen
> >in all of these schools" and therefore I do not make particular
> >distinctions.
>
> So you're making differences (the three schools) without distinctions? :-)
>
> Not to belabor the issue, but the point I was questioning was your the
> assertion that:
> > In the Kaula School,
> >the focus shifts to acquiring material and psychic powers.
>
> Now you may feel ``that great saints arise in every religion and tradition
> and therefore I do not make particular distinctions'' but you nevertheless
> made a statement about the Kaula school that is not consistent with my
> understanding of it. So I offered an alternative view.
>
> Anyway, I read your paper on the web. Are you in the lineage of Swami
> Satyananda Saraswati or Swami Janakananda?
>
> Kind Regards, Kurt
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:27:32 -0600
From: Galván Jiménez Marco Antonio
<GALVANMATnospamtelmex.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: comment on DA FREE John
Message-Id: <199712020145.TAA03955ATnospama.mx.execpc.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCFEA1.D97F2730"
Colud anybody comment on DA FREE John, Adidam?
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\kundal36"
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 18:54:52 -0800
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospamsynopsys.com>
To: "Harsh K. Luthar" <hlutharATnospamresearch1.bryant.edu>
Cc: hlutharATnospambryant.edu, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: tantric schools (was Urddhavareta)
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971201185451.00f3d01cATnospampcpo-1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:25 PM 12/1/97 -0500, Harsh K. Luthar wrote:
>The differences in approach and practice between the Samaya and Kaula
>schools is well known and is historically established. I simply stated
>that difference which has been amply noted by others.
And I questioned the difference that you made and kindly asked you to tell
me on what basis were you making your assertions. If you do not wish to do
this then we should not further trouble this listserver with our email on
the topic.
Still, I hold that
>great saints may arise on any path. So again you are quite right. I
>recognize the difference but do not make distinctions.
>
>There are many good books on the topic (although not in the popular
>literature). I mentioned "The Tantric Tradition" by Swami Agehananda
>Bharati in my paper on the web. However, it is a scholarly work and only
>useful for those who are already quite advanced in their knowledge.
It's an interesting work by a more interesting character - Swami turned
anthropologist and college professor. He was involved with the Tibet
Society for a number of years and through friends there I understand that
he had more direct experience of the tantra tradition than he alludes to in
his books. Personally, I would prefer either works within the traditions
(e.g. Saundaryalahari or Kularnava Tantra) or works by contemporary
scholars such as Brooks or Muller-Ortega.
>
>Book knowledge is useful but Yoga and Tantra demands practical
>experience. For that one has to get the proper instruction, regulate
>one's conduct and meditate on the energy centers. Hatha Yoga, pranayama
>and mantra meditation play a key role in Tantra for awakening the
>Kundalini energy and leading her upwards.
There are a variety of means for awakening kundalini and I have tried to
detail most of them in the FAQ's which are available from the gateway
website. I would enjoy your comments on the FAQ's as I am always interested
in broadening my knowledge. I believe that any one of:
mantra yoga
hatha yoga (which subsumes pranayama) or
laya yoga
would be adequate to awaken kundalini and I do not feel that they need to
be practiced together to initiate the awakening. There is a tradition in
Siddha Mahayoga that these are different phases of the kundalini awakening
- but in that tradition there is no volitional attempt to engage in these
practices.
But I'm curious as to why you bring this up at this time. I've never quite
understood the tendency to transition any ``academic'' discussion with the
conclusion that practice and experience is what is really important. This
is my turn to ``whole-heartedly agree'' but did you think I would do
otherwise? Does an interest in scholarship in kundalini preclude an
interest in practice?
Mangalam
Kurt
PS Since in your writings you note that you have achieved kevalya
nirvikalpa samadhi I wonder if you could clarify something for me. Did this
realization occur with the penetration of the vishnu grantha or the rudra
grantha? I would very much like to be enlightened on this matter.
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 19:46:33 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: Mike Stickles <msticklesATnospamantalys.com>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: loving one another
Message-ID: <34830608.2F4EATnospamintercomm.com>
Gloria Greco wrote:
>
> Mike Stickles wrote:
> >
> > My two cents on the topic...
> >
> > As a wag once said, "All generalizations are in some
> > degree wrong, including this one." It is dangerous to
> > generalize too much about what men and women want
> > in sex and affection (or any other area for that matter).
> >
> > Before we married, my wife and I read stuff that talked
> > about how men and women relate to each other, then
> > tried to apply it to our relationship and went splat. Some
> > stuff applied, some didn't. So we have essentially just
> > tossed the books aside and concentrated on keeping
> > a continuous open dialog going. In only seven years
> > together our needs and wants have undergone quite a
> > bit of change, and "keeping the lines open" is the only
> > way we stay on the same page. It took about five years
> > to "synchronize" our sexual needs so that we didn't
> > have the "I want to, she doesn't" problem or (rarely)
> > vice versa.
>
> Gloria contributes:
> Mike, it sounds like you and your wife have learned to work the process
> of allowing transformation to work for you. This is wonderful in any
> relationship, when it is a married couple and they allow themselves the
> ability to really come together in co-operation, it really is a wonder
> to behold.
> My husband and I have been together 34 years and it is better today
> then it was as kids, I married at 17 and he was 21. It only gets better
> when there is deep love, compassion, tolerance and sensitivity, and
> above all giving that partner space to grow. We have never dealt with
> the hard issues because we knew from the start we were brought together
> by the Holy Spirit. So, our life has been filled with adventure, living
> in the moment, and always, giving that other person respect, and
> whatever was needed. This flows both ways. I don't think we ever thought
> in term of being obedient or sacrificing, although it has certainly been
> there, instead we constantly have given thanks for our ability to
> communicate and go with the flow. Besides that, how can you be negative
> to a man who's favorite song is 'kiss and angel good morning and tell
> her that you love her when you get back home.' This is the philosophy he
> lives by, he has taught it to many people, most really smile but they
> observe him and it is exactly the way he feels. This is a man that met
> me when I was 9, asked me to marry him when I was 14, I said no, and
> came back when I was 16, this time he told me I was to marry him. I
> guess he wasn't taking any chances.
> >
>
> --
>
> Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
> Gloria Joy Greco
> e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
> http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
> &
> http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
> Hope you enjoy them!
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:27:13 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: Bud Space <budspaceATnospamhotmail.com>
CC: heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Teacher
Message-ID: <34830F8D.6DFDATnospamintercomm.com>
Gloria Greco wrote:
>
> Bud Space wrote:
> >
> > Hello Gloria
> >
> > In the classic kundalini/Hatha Yoga scripture Hatha Yoga Pradipika it
> > says in the beginning (verse 14) "Seated in such a place, the yogi
> > should free his mind from all distracting thoughts and practice yoga as
> > instructed by his Guru".
> >
> > In the book Kundalini yoga for the west by Swami Sivananda Radha it is
> > stated in a footnote (on page 318 in my edition): "(Advanced exercises
> > for the attainment of the powers of the chakras can only be given after
> > the foundation has been laid and through personal instruction.)"
> >
> > Both books has been mentioned on the kundalini list.
> >
> > Many other teachers have pointed out the need for a proper guide on a
> > advanced spiritual path to make it more safe.
> >
> > Some references says that the main risk that the practitioner should be
> > guarded from is when the basic kundalini (in the body) goes downwards
> > instead of upwards. (lesser prana-streams is always circulating) Gopi
> > Krishna talks about uneven distribution between Ida and Pingala nadis as
> > a problem as well. To this comes the release of karmas from the inner of
> > the spine, that should not come all of it at once. There are probably
> > other risks also.
>
> > In Europe some people independent of each other are collecting cases
> > where kundalini awakening (or eastern meditation techniques or Qi-Gong)
> > has resulted in severe mental illness. It seems to me that these cases
> > has been without a proper (inner) teacher. The people I have heard of
> > collecting this material are those who have lost someone into a mental
> > institution due to kundalini awakening, and not fundamentalist
> > Christians.
> >
> > When reading about classical saints or mystics or more contemporary
> > people with cosmic consciousness, I have taken some time to read what
> > they themselves say about how they have reached their spiritual states.
> > Almost all gives credit of their states to some guru or spiritual
> > teacher, including Jesus and others.
> >
> > Therefore I am happy reading your charing on your web-site about your
> > contact with Mary and Jesus. I do not know if you has discussed this in
> > the kundalini list, but if you think that the risk with kundalini rising
> > is much less if one is in contact with a true teacher, maybe you could
> > consider telling the k-list so. (If the teacher is an aspect of one's
> > higher self or not I do not care much)
> >
> >
> > Greetings, Bud
>
> Dear Bud,
> Gloria responds:
> Actually, it is wise to have a teacher since so much can happen in this
> awakening process. There are rare cases, like mine where from a previous
> time one has earned the grace... I haven't had direct contact in body
> with a teacher, but previous lifetimes have come forward to explain
> this. I am not comfortable talking about this, so please don't ask me to
> go into it further. But, I have certainly maintained the connection out
> of the body in the dream/vision states, not once but many, many times
> each time an initiation manifest.
> Even though it has been out of body, I have indeed had direct contact
> with perfect masters or even perfect masters in body who came to me. Sai
> Baba, considered an avatar, and I have maintained our connection since
> 1968. Recently I have see him often. If you are interested in him go any
> search engine and it will come up. HIs work in S. India is nothing short
> of incredible.
> My spiritual foundation is with Christ, Jesus... and Mother Mary, this
> comes from Christian roots, like I said, I had been with them before,
> and over lives of training worked with that frequency. In this life I
> have been trained specifically for a specific work, in part, it was to
> manifest kundalini and integrate Eastern Teachings.
> Sai Baba came to me in a vision in 1968, in that experience he gave me
> an assignment, and that came on right after several direct experiences
> from Christ, and another who is the Ancient of Days. So, in rare
> circumstances it is handled in this manner. Do I think everyone will
> have the same experience?
> No, not in the least. I have made my self available to those on the
> list as simply a participant, those who have inquired further have
> directly received from our connection. I am in no way looking for people
> to follow me, on the other hand, I am happy to help when spirit
> manifests the connection. The connection alone can be of great service
> since people seldom have the understanding of what kundalini is for, in
> the overall sense of the experience. I have always worked with the
> people brought to me to make that interior connection with God in the
> heart.
> This is so your higher self becomes the Guru, and that you look always
> within for answers. For the first ten years of being with people, I
> wouldn't even let them look to me as their teacher. I have course been
> their as the teacher, but I insisted they go within and not use me as a
> crutch. So, even in being with a teacher it is very important to develop
> that interior knowing that carries you forever inward and higher in
> frequency. I do not relate in the standard way as the guru, I am not
> eastern in that respect, however, I understand the purpose behind this.
> I figure God knew what he/she was doing in developing me along certain
> specific lines, it has been successful and that is all that is
> important.
> We live at a great time of change, rules are changing along with
> everything else. With mass frequency changes, those who are in body
> living in silence as natural consequence of living out of the crown
> chakra, yes, must come forward. I have put on my homepage a very simple
> meditation that is safe because you make it your first and formost goal
> to connect up to the God Within with the focus always on the heart
> center. This process has been very successful working with seekers
> brought to me for over 30 years. Once you are safely going into that
> heart center, not as something you try, but as something you naturally
> do, kundalini will not be a problem. This has been my training and I am
> passing it on. People here in the west, can take their understanding of
> God from traditional Christian roots and simply focus on specific areas
> in the awakening process, doing this, they can easily be introduced into
> the Eastern teachings without problems. God is God, east or west, it is
> all the same.
> In addition to your meditation practice, I highly recommend you
> seriously learn to understand your dream formula, this is your direct
> mirror inside which will reflect to you exactly what is on target and
> what isn't. I can easily assist with dreams to get you plugged into
> this, several people from all over the world have made connections while
> out of the body and are using the list as a support group in the
> interior process. I hope this will help for those who are not able to
> find assistance. Gloria
> >
> >
> > ______________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> --
>
> Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
> Gloria Joy Greco
> e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
> http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
> &
> http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
> Hope you enjoy them!
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
DISCLAIMER!
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