1997/11/10 03:10
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #742
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 742
Today's Topics:
Re: dantes?/Angelique-Help anyone?? [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistres ]
Re: GOD, XI -- XX [ Dennis Quinn <dquinnATnospamturbo.KEAN.EDU ]
Re: dantes?/Angelique-Help anyone?? [ Mary Ezzell <maryATnospamsonic.net> ]
Re: Thoughts free will [ "Rohit Mathur" <RohitATnospamboi.co.in> ]
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 20:06:02
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: Gloria <glorybeATnospamintrepid.net>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: dantes?/Angelique-Help anyone??
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971109200602.413f1e10ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Big stuff.. I'll give it my best shot.. fun, trying to bring concepts
down into words that make sense... I have this idea in my head that more
words works better.. ain't necessarily so.. but.. Hope it's worth the read..
At 11:46 09/11/97 -0500, Gloria wrote:
>>At 12:58 AM 11/8/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>>Angelique wrote:
>>>
>>>snip
>>>> Precisely so: it time and space do not exist, then how can there be any
>>>>thought of "progress?" There is no here or there to get to. All of
eternity
>>>>is in the Now. The Universe has already ended, you are already reunited
>>>>with Creator, and have never been separate. All paths must lead to
Goddess,
>>>>coz Goddess is All that is, and so how can we not go to Her?
>
>OK.. my question here is that even if this represents a truth about reality
>or I choose to believe it, to experience this eternal now simultaneously
>with whatever is your current expererience of reality in the so-called real
>world/or the maya of illusion(call it anything)...is THAT then sorta
>logically what is happpening/possible..???
Yes. this is enlightenment. seeing the big picture, not sweating the
"small stuff". First, in bits at a time, gradually, as a lens of constant
focus.
>since there is no
>seperation..just the perception of it?? How does one handle these sudden
>shifts of perception?? This is NOT a hypothetical question...I really need
>some help with this kind of experience.. see the end of the email for more
>about the difficulties.
One observes it, enjoys the view, then "chop wood carry water". Doing
dishes with the physical, while another part of the self is off stardancing
the cosmos. The dishes, too, are a sacred part of All that Is, one of the
miriad experiences of being. All of life becomes a meditation on the sacred.
>
>>>Indeed, but if this is accepted, then there is no way out of a radical
>>>acceptence of >all< experience, painful as well as pleasurable, as bliss.
>>>
Yup.
>Are you saying this is a logical consequence?? hypothetically true??
>Provable?? Experiencable??
Yup, yup, yup, and yes.
Please just explain a bit more..on what basis
>does one idea follow from the previous one. Explain how you mean there is
>no way out.. you say If this is true, then the next must be true...well ??
>IS it true??? This stuff is important...it matters.. you seem so close to
>the crux of the question....can *anyone* illuminate this in some
>understandable way?? please try to keep it simple as possible...
A story?
Many years ago, contemplating my past history of "painful lessons", and
wondering at my seeming need for them, to progress spiritually, and
knowing that it was somehow my own doing, that things had been like that
before.. I cried out with an "I Am" statement:
" I Am tired of learning from pain! I choose to learn from Joy, from
Happiness!" I felt the K. vibe resonance buzz of truth.. my prayer had been
heard..
Yet many negative experiences still came. I felt the truth of my option
to learn from joy, so why all this other stuff still happening?
I discovered more about myself, and found myself to be drawn to spending
time with Maschochists. There, I discovered the key to the puzzle I sought:
The truth of free will. Here where individuals, for whom the most painful
events of my past were sought after roleplay experiences to be accepted
with bliss and treasured!
The difference between pain and pleasure, seemed to be the attitude in
which they were percieved. I turned professional, it got even clearer. Some
folks were willing to pay good $$ to have experiences that often involved
the very events I had considered my most painful memories, of helplessness,
abuse and humiliation, often with a directive to push them to reach the
very limits of thier tolerance.. extreme. Not only did they actively seek
the experiences, they also blissed out on them, their energy grew like
crazy before my eyes, and they always left the Dungeon looking stronger and
more fulfilled than when they had arrived. New peace, behind thier eyes.
We can choose to dismiss these folks as sick or crazy.. but that does not
change the mirror they represent. In so doing, we dismiss what must be a
part of ourselves showing us a different truth. We choose, to experience
pain or pleasure in response to what occurs. No other makes these choices
for us.. tho they may be shaped by our personal history, creating
expectations.
Distilling the truth of these experiences, I discover that the key
attitudes for transformation of pain to bliss: Surrender, acceptance,
gratitude, absolute faith in a "higher power" of Any sort, trust trust
trust, and focusing on the moment where eternity Is.
I go deep into one polarity, to spring back stronger wiser toward the
other.. deep into the extremems of the BDSM world willingly challenging my
own limits/toleraton.. to come back to the "straight=vanilla" world with
new insights into the question I asked myself, back when I was a "vanilla
girl": How to choose to learn from happiness, joy, bliss?
Choose to find those elements in everything that occurs, thru trust,
gratitude, faith in the wisdom of a higher power to know what you need,
better than you do.
Put another way, "Be happy when it rains, if you are not happy.. it rains
anyways..
Being able to see the present moment from the perspective of
eternity+spirit, hearing the truth speaking from the Heart centre..
breathing gratitude for the gift of life into the power chakra.. Thankyou
God-dess ...focusing on breathing, keeps you in the present moment, and out
of the snare of responses based on past history, old news.. I Am spirit
having a human experience.
>
>>>Could one accept, say, a protracted bout with cancer as, not a lesson, but
>>>a perfectly fullfilled experience-in-itself? This would truely be
>>>practicing Tantra in a "cremation ground". Not for the squeamish!
Who has not had a bout with tragedy? Squeamish is a choice, too.. K.
awakening from NDE's and UFO abductions.. Clouds with silver linings. If
you don't believe in the silver linings of every Goddess blessing, you
won't go looking for them. So you don't find them, sit in the rain
complaining and eating worms, instead.
The image comes to mind, of the cobra spreading it's hood over the
Buddah, so the rain falling on his head, might not disturb his meditations.
My slave druid has a cold today.. it is the second message he has
recieved from his body: "Slow down!" ..slave ravin' has been getting k-fire
pains in her legs.. legs are associated emotionally, with moving forward..
she is struggling with growth issues. (I have also recommended calcium
supplements.)
The body is much, much wiser than the mind.. you have as many nuerons
firing in your mind, as there are stars in the known universe..yet the
information carried in the cells, in the dna and nerves of the body, is
estimated to be a trillion times that. Spirit's knowing, of course is
limitless.
We are not equipped mentally, to comprehend limitlessness.. but it can be
FELT as truth in enlightened moments.. There, are the hierarchies of
wisdom.. that the slow linear progression of brain logic, can never ever
hope to comprehend. It is therefore "rational", to listen to body, and
spirit, over tiny stupid limited logical rational mind.
The body communicates as it can, directing you towards the light, using
"ease" and "dis-ease" to send it's messages, and it will "speak" louder and
louder, until the message is heard.. even if that shouting match eventually
means the death of the body. The body, in it's greater wisdom, sees beyond
the moment, beyond the illusions of it's own death.. it knows itself to be
a vehicle for spirit. .. the manifestation of a choice to experience duality.
Spirit, cannot really comprehend our limited illusions of pain and
suffering.. Being and knowing itself to be All that Is, is knowing that the
endless variety of experiences, are simply Goddess knowing and Loving
Herself, through the vehicle of LIMITLESS MANIFESTATION in the eternity of
the present moment, in the vastness of All that is.
Yet, through the trick of free will, this vast creative power, and our
experiences, are manifested thru the vehicle of our words and thoughts.
Mind. To the degree it chooses to be separate, from the wisdom of body and
spirit, is the degree to which it will experience illusions of pain and fear.
Faith, not logic, produces miracles.
Logic tries to deny what it cannot comprehend.
>>>This is surely "how it works", but its not "what it is". Who is doing the
>>>choosing? If we all are the Goddess/Divine/whatchmacallit, then that
>>>Divinity is doing the choosing, and does not need to "learn" anything. But,
>>>in a sense, neither does it need to "experience" anything. It's
>>>Heidigger"s "Why is there something rather than nothing?"
Because it's FUN!!!
Hey, have you noticed that most of our entertainment is based on tales of
suffering for love, and status transactions? En-noblement and humiliation?
Relationships.
In the "Beginning" (Which is also the present moment) The One could not
know itself, being without a mirror of "Other" and having having no "Other"
to see Itself in. Being All, it could not be "other", so, it could not know
itself, explore it's limitlessness.. even tho it is limitless.
It created a mirror of Itself, giving itself a perfect illusion of
separation into "other", and seeing Itself, for the first time, the primal
energy of Love/gravity/attraction was manifested. First Relationship.
First orgasm. First manifestation. Yummy. She likes it. It is still
happenning..
No matter how many times you divide infinity, it is still infinity, eh?
No matter how many splinters of illusion of rock and slug and human and
molecule Goddess pretends to divide Herself into, in each of these things
is Goddess, All, Limitless. Each part in relationship with the other,
choosing to manifest love/unification or fear/separation in endless
variations of All that Is.
Goddess knows Herself, through the eyes of limitless manifestations of
the illusions of separation, each feeling a desire to be One Again. Each
having the choice to feel as separate as it chooses.
>>> But
>>>the bottom line is: we're all doing just want we want to be doing, always -
>>>no exceptions.
>>>
>ok... Maybe YOU are...but not even in my dreams am I close to *manifesting
>whatever I want to manifest*.
"Conversations with God" spelled this one out very well; recommended
reading.
I'll paraphrase. Cosmic promise: Unconditional love supports us, prayers
get answered.
Goddess knows our thoughts. Being limitless and outside of time and
space, she knows all of the limitless possibilities of our thoughts, and
gives us exactly what we expect.
The problem lies with how we think: we don't trust the promise, we don't
believe it, we contradict it with every thought. We don't feel
unconditionally loved, by a being that can give us anything we ask for..
this is our separation-stuff. If we really did trust the promise, we would
never think of wanting: we would KNOW that everything will be there for us
just as we need it. Faith. Trust that it will be, if it is in your higher
good, and be grateful.
Goddess filfills instantly: our thoughts of wanting, produce experiences
of wanting.. over and over we say "i wanna be", instead of "I Am".
Whereas our thoughts of having+trust+gratitude manifests miraculous
blessings, beyond mental expectations, into the realm of Spirit's greater
powers:co-creation.
We choose what we get, by choosing our thoughts. If our thoughts are a
tangled jumble of ideas of past limitations, Dis-ease and fears of wanting,
that becomes our new experience of the moment. That is where we are, where
we are choosing to be .. "sitting in a puddle eating worms, yum yum."
Grounded in the limitlessness of the present moment, and trust in
unconditional love, accesses the limitless powers of manifestation. It
comes down to free will of consciousness, choosing with every thought, to
surrender it's creative powers of fear and limits, to the vaster wisdom of
Bodymind, and spirit. Life becomes bliss.
>>>
>>>If all "incarnations" are simultaneous, then all choosing affects all of
>>>them, simultaneously. Its awesome!
>>>
>>>dante
>>>
>>
>okay...IF this, IF that...Having pondered the implications of these last
>two statements.. it's awesome! seems an understatement... now IF someone,
>anyone can dispose of those 2 pesky IFS....please write to me in some
>possibly understandable way.
Well, that is how I have satisfied them for the time being, in my own mind.
Re-training my thoughts, tho, is a lifetime task.. we have the power of
free will.. we must choose to surrender it to higher wisdom, over and over
again, in every moment. We co-create fear-challenges, and with each one
surfed by faith, we experience greater unity.
I get a cartoon image of demons driving folks towards heaven with a
pitchfork poking them inna butt.. "Get up there!" ... doing God's work..
there is no separation. All is a manifestation of Love, masquerading as
Other, looking for love.
> I do have some experience of sudden shifts of
>perception in space time reality and perception of eternal now...some
>simultaneous, even...but most of the time??? well, not yet. The intensity
>of just the idea that *all choosing affects all of them, simultaneously.*
>the implications, let alone the experience of this choosing..
You are a perfect mirror of All that Is. Everytime you change, the
reflection across the universe changes. You cannot comprehend all of the
effects.. you never can, you never will.. give up. Brains are limited.
Stop trying, that is not your job. That is the task of spirit, you are
the "ground crew". Goddess has it handled, perfectly. To worry is to doubt
Her capability.
Your job is to focus on loving whatever manifestation of Goddess is in
front of you, in the present moment. When you do that, all of the
reflections of you across the universe throughout time and space do so
also, and there is comsic mind love orgasm... a moment of unity in All That
Is, that is felt as expanded awareness. Not logically comprehended.
Fun, isn't it? Wanna change the world? Change your mind, the world changes.
Chop wood, carry water.. have a relationship with the water, and feel the
endless stories of it's travels from cloud to ocean along the way. Connect
with the unity of the wood, and hear it tell of it's experience as a tree,
and as an acorn before that, and it's possibility as fuel for fire..
transformation of the wheel, energy undergoing illusions of destruction,
transformation, rebirth.. relationships with other.
>I have no
>words...really, but will say that perhaps may be the end of the trail, who
>knows??
Who knows? Blessings, Mystress.
Mystress Angelique Serpent,
Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
:D ;) :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :D :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :)
Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at
different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing.
-- Clive James
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 01:23:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Dennis Quinn <dquinnATnospamturbo.KEAN.EDU>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: GOD, XI -- XX
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.971110002446.6389B-100000ATnospamturbo.kean.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
XI
Hearkening to the Name,
Man dives deep in an ocean of virtue;
Hearkening to the Name,
The seeker becomes an apostle,
A minister and ruler of souls.
Hearkening to the Name,
The blind find the path;
Hearkening to the Name,
Impassable streams are crossed.
Nanak says the saints are ever joyous;
Hearkening to the Name,
Sorrow and sin are extinct.
XII
For him with deep devotion to the Name,
Words fail to convey his condition;
He himself will come to regret
If he ever sought to describe it;
Neither pen nor paper nor literary skill
Can anywhere approach it.
Such is the potency of His pure Name.
He who truly avows It knows It.
XIII
Through faith in the Name,
The mind soars into sublime enlightenment.
The entire cosmos is self-disclosed.
Through inward faith in the Name,
One avoids foolish fumbling;
With the light of such faith,
Fear of death is dispelled.
Such is the potency of His pure Name.
He who truly avows It knows It.
XIV
Nothing can obstruct or obscure the path
Of those with deep devotion to the Name;
They depart with dignity,
They lose not the right direction.
The spirit of those suffused with faith
Is wedded to the revelation of truth.
Such is the potency of His pute Name.
He who truly avows It knows It.
XV
Those with deep devotion to the Name
Ever attain to emancipation;
Their kith and kin are also redeemed.
Guided by the Guru's light
The seeker moves safely,
And many more he redeems;
Those enriched with inward faith
Do not drift like beggars.
Such is the potency of His pure Name.
He who truly avows It know It.
XVI
His chosen are His saints, splendrous are they.
Esteemed are saints in the court of God;
Saints add lustre to the Lord's realm,
With minds focussed upon the Guru alone.
All they utter is wisdom, but by what measure
Can we count the Lord's works?
Dharma is the mythic bull: the progeny
of Compassion,
Which holds the thread that binds all creation.
Even meagre common sense makes one grasp this;
How could a bull's shoulders support the globe?
There are so many globes, planets galore,
What indeed bears these burdens?
One prodigal pen engraved the names
Of all creatures with varied forms and hues;
But who amongst us would inscribe that record,
Or if we could, how massive the scroll would be.
How can any convey Thy beauty and Thy
mighty works?
Who indeed has the power to recokon Thy bounty,
O Lord?
All creation issuing from Thy single Word
Flowing outward like myriad rivers.
How can a poor creature like myself
Convey the vastitude and glory of Thy creation?
I am too petty to offer anything to Thee;
I cannot even ever sacrifice unto Thee.
To obey Thy Will, O Formless One, is man's
greatest gift,
Thou who eternally reposed in Thy Peace.
XVII
There is no recokoning of the prayers of men,
There is no reckoning their modes of adoration.
Thy lovers are countless, O Lord;
Countless are they who intone the Vedas;
Countless are the Yogis who remain aloof from
this world.
Countless are Thy contemplating saints,
Thy graces and Thy wisdom;
Countless are the benevolent, lovers of their
fellowmen.
Countless Thy heroes and martyrs
Confronting the weapons of the hostile;
Countless are those who in stillness
Focus their deepest thought upon Thee.
How can a poor creature like myself
Convey the vastitude and glory of Thy Creation?
I am too petty to offer anything to Thee;
I cannot even ever sacrifice unto Thee.
To obey Thy Will, O Lord, is man's greatest gift,
Thou who eternally reposes in Thy Peace.
XVIII
There is no reckoning fools, the morally purblind;
No reckoning thieves and the crooked;
No reckoning the spillers of innocent blood;
No reckoning the sinners who keep sinning.
No reckoning the liars who revel in lies;
No reckoning the dirty wretches who live on dross;
No reckoning the traducers,
Whose heads are heaped with loads of sin.
Thus says Nanak, lowliest of the low:
I am too petty to offer anything Thee;
I cannot even ever sacrifice unto Thee.
To obey Thy Will, O Lord, is man's greatest gift,
Thou who eternally reposes in Thy Peace.
XIX
Countless are Thy Names and Thine abodes;
Wholly beyond the reach of the imagination
Are Thy prolific realms;
Even to call them prolific is presumptuous.
Yet by words and letters
Thy Name is uttered and Thy praise conveyed;
By words we extol Thee,
By words we chant Thy graces.
In the words we write and utter about Thee,
In words on the forehead of man,
Is inscribed the destiny of man;
Yet God who inscribes that destiny
Is free from the limits of language.
As God ordains, so man obtains.
His Word makes manifest all creation;
Without the Light of His Word
Nothing is possible.
How can a poor creature as I
Convey the vastitude and glory of Thy creation?
I am too petty to offer anything to Thee;
I cannot even ever sacrifice unto Thee.
To obey Thy Will, O Lord, is man's greatest gift,
Thou who eternally reposes in Thy Peace.
XX
When hands, feet and other limbs
Of the body are besmirched with filth,
They are purified by water;
When a garment is pollutted,
It is cleansed with soapsuds;
So when the mind is polluted with filth,
We must scrub it with love of the Name.
We do not become sinners or saints
Merely by making claims;
All actions are recorded;
As is the seed we sow, so is the fruit we reap.
By God's Will, O Nanak,
Man must be saved or suffer more births.
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 22:52:37 -0800
From: Mary Ezzell <maryATnospamsonic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: dantes?/Angelique-Help anyone??
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971109225232.00b35170ATnospampop.sonic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:06 PM 11/9/97, you wrote:
> Big stuff.. I'll give it my best shot.. fun, trying to bring concepts
>down into words that make sense... I have this idea in my head that more
>words works better.. ain't necessarily so.. but.. Hope it's worth the
read..
Thanks. It was great. Too much good to quote and snip.
Vision today in the grocery. Of ... this world being a place where heavenly
beings split up to have different kinds of love. Mother-daughter,
father-daughter.... Bond stretched, like taffy....
Lone woman buying groceries, comparing prices = love for family. EVerything
we do, done for love of someone or other. When someone is there, love is
play togehrter. When they're lost, love is rescue, seeking.
Like ice, snow, rain all being different forms of h2o. Love taking
different forms under different conditions.
Still, sorting it all out, progressing ... is another form of love.
Progressing to reunion...? Isn't that part of the fun too?
Mary
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 12:30:29 +0530
From: "Rohit Mathur" <RohitATnospamboi.co.in>
To: <BedawnedATnospamaol.com>, <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>,
<kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts free will
Message-Id: <9711100734.AA30775ATnospamdel2.vsnl.net.in>
Melissa wrote :
>He said he didn't want to get of the Wheel either, at least until
>suffering ceases in the universe. I was personally delighted by his
comment
>because I usually think of Buddhists as wanting to merge.
It is better to drive the wheel than be driven by it! That is the way of
the living Master. The Dalai Lama drives the wheel, but he would not say
it! The closer you are to perfection, the less you talk in terms of "I"
and "Mine". What he says will come to pass, very shortly.
Union with the Source is the Goal Of Perfection.
DISCLAIMER!
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