1997/11/08 09:23
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #737
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 737
Today's Topics:
Re: Thoughts [ BedawnedATnospamaol.com ]
Re: departure reckons the tally [ FIute <FIuteATnospamPRODIGY.NET> ]
Re: Thoughts. [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistres ]
Re: Re: Thoughts [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistres ]
RE: piercing the rudra knot [ Paul Fallon <pawlATnospamfirstnet.co.uk> ]
RE: Re: Thoughts [ Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.c ]
RE: Karma was: Re: Re: Thoughts. [ Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.c ]
Re: Thoughts. [ elaine backal <glenda7ATnospamairmail.net> ]
Re: Re: Thoughts (Angelique) [ dante rosati <danteATnospampop.interport.n ]
New to list.... [ "Tucker" <4tuckerATnospamusa.net> ]
Re: Thoughts [ "N. Eckert" <watrfallATnospamniagara.com> ]
RE: Karma was: Re: Re: Thoughts. [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 17:23:52 -0500 (EST)
From: BedawnedATnospamaol.com
To: shawebbATnospamyhc.edu, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Thoughts
Message-ID: <971107172351_258390135ATnospammrin40.mail.aol.com>
Hi, Sharon;
One of my pet ideas, Sharon. I'm pre-determined to jump in :)
<< CGIAJW wrote: >>If someone suffers, that is why they reincarnated, and
they are learning their important lessons, if someone helps them, that was
already
planned too, and that is part of the lesson.>>
<<SW- This notion seems to preclude free will, doesn't it? And if we throw
out free will, then it seems to follow that any lesson "learned" was
predetermined; therefore, nothing was learned at all. >>
It depends how "free" we really are. All are pre-determinedly blessed and
cursed by the genetic contributions of our parents. No one is completely
free. But suffering and giving compassion (at point X or Y in one's 15th
lifetime :) may have been freely and willfully agreed to either prior to our
present life in a spiritual existence OR freely and willfully subconsciously
agreed to in (Joseph Campbell's) web of present day life.
"My freedom is killing me." --George Sand :)
yours, Melissa
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 16:55:46 -0600
From: FIute <FIuteATnospamPRODIGY.NET>
To: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
CC: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: departure reckons the tally
Message-ID: <34639C72.D95ATnospamprodigy.net>
Debora A. Orf wrote:
>
> departure reckons the talley
AWESOME!!!!!!! Applause.. I love it.. we will post it in our poetry
section..
http://www.create.org
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 16:59:34
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: SchrLLATnospamaol.com
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Thoughts.
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971107165934.4db79a52ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>In a message dated 97-11-05 10:19:24 EST, you write:
>ATnospam->->--
Physically, I put myself farther away. Mentally, I
>am closer than even others would want. People do not like those of us who
>know their very thoughts to be too close. This is a different reality! Love
>and Light, Linda
>
>
Hmmmm ... makes me think of high school, esp blasting and me too naiive
to not talk about it.. the reactions were diverse. Fear, denial, comfort,
scorn..
Most folks keep the privacy of their head, like a shameful secret..
certain if anyone could see what was in there, they'd run away screaming in
horror.
When they realize you are looking seeing, understanding, and are still
there loving them anyway, there is a deep sigh of relief.. healing. They
have been seen naked in thier private self, and still considered worthy of
love and acceptance.
If they are still unable to accept themselves, likely they will reject
you, instead..
Most folks want to be really seen, and loved for who they really are, but
the fear of the fragile inner self being rejected, keeps them wearing
masks. Someone who has the power to look behind the mask, is someone to be
feared for the possible power of rejection they may hold.
I always "look", it is natural to me, to reach out for the communication
behind the communication. I will not always share what I see, sometimes it
is kinder to deal with people as they present themselves. Hallow'een party
rules. Who are you being today?
Other times, it is clear I see, to share my seeing, and help them find
more clarity about who they are, and what they are up to. Games people
play... without realizing they are playing them. Old tapes running.
If I am feeling resistant to being around someone who is blasting strong
emotions, I try to remember that my resistance is my own, and let the
blasts pass harmlessly thru my branches, while I focus on my strong roots
going to the center of the Earth.
Willow trees are not judgemental of the wind that shapes them.
Feeling irritated, tells me I need to change attitude, from, "Whoa yucky
negative stuff, run away!!" which gets me caught up in the negativity I am
fleeing.. my own resistance to the mirror of all that Is.
(Where ever you go, there you are.. are you having fun, where you are at?)
Attitude adjustment 180 degrees, to "Hmmmm... interesting growth event,
how entertaining. I must be here to snack on the energy for lunch and
transform it into light and wisdom. The truth makes you laugh, so where is
the humor in this?"
My personal motto: "Life Continues To Be Amusing!",
Jackie Gleason based his comedy career, partly on the fact that folks
found his temper tantrums funny... not threatening, and learned from them.
"The Honeymooners" is in reruns, forever.
So I give it the attention of a good video, support by listening. When I
see the "moral of the story", I wait for a pause in their expression, to
speak it out without emotional coloring, as a neutral observation.
Sometimes it will come out as an observation from a similar event in my own
life, and how I resolved it. Not even about them... but there is only One
of Us.
Blessings, Mystress.
Mystress Angelique Serpent,
Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
:D ;) :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :D :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :)
Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at
different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing.
-- Clive James
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 17:49:20
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
Cc: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971107174920.4db79606ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:48 07/11/97 -0500, Sharon Webb wrote:
>Hi Everybody,
>This notion seems to preclude free will, doesn't it? And if we throw out
>free will, then it seems to follow that any lesson "learned" was
>predetermined; therefore, nothing was learned at all.
>
>Sharon
>shawebbATnospamyhc.edu
Precisely so: it time and space do not exist, then how can there be any
thought of "progress?" There is no here or there to get to. All of eternity
is in the Now. The Universe has already ended, you are already reunited
with Creator, and have never been separate. All paths must lead to Goddess,
coz Goddess is All that is, and so how can we not go to Her?
Perhaps there is none, only the soul experiencing, not for lessons
already learned, but simply for the joy of being, in the infinite
multiplicity of the present moment.
When we seek an orgasm, or a perfect ripe peach, we do not go looking for
lessons, but experiences. Yet in the fullness of the experience, we may
connect more deeply with Goddess than in the self doubt of introspection,
prayers of penance.
Yet throwing out the search for lessons in favor of the search for
experiences, does not preclude free will. We choose our experiences, many
before birth, co creating each moment. We choose how we feel about our
experiences, which shapes them by our free will.
If time and space do not exist, then the moments of choosing, before
birth are also in the power of the present moment. It's never too late to
have a happy childhood.. :)
Blessings, Mystress.
Mystress Angelique Serpent,
Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
:D ;) :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :D :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :)
Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at
different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing.
-- Clive James
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 20:36:27 -0000
From: Paul Fallon <pawlATnospamfirstnet.co.uk>
To: "'SchrLLATnospamaol.com'" <SchrLLATnospamaol.com>, "'k-list'" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: piercing the rudra knot
Message-ID: <01BCEBEB.6D3282C0ATnospamjota3.legend.co.uk>
Thanks so much for your reply. It helps. It makes sense that a blockage in the throat is literally about freeing up your voice. So simple....
More recently (since the 14 years ago that I had this experience, age 18), no dramatic experiences for me (ie. no conscious awareness of arousal from the base chakra upwards and through each) but I'm am getting pretty regular activity, a focussed pressure in centre of forehead, and the odd fluttering at the base.
You said> I do not analyze so much, I
just know that I am getting feedback about the situation. I do not take it
personally.<
My instinct also is not to analyse these feelings or - since then - pursue them. I guess I think I'm on a mission with everyday life now. Someday I guess I will sit down to it again when I feel ready. For now, I take these stirrings/feelings as a small occasional affirmations. It brings consciousness of the vast connectedness of myself with magical/mysterious life, the universe and everything. Which is something to bear in mind when in conversation or washing up or responding to your e-mail.
Thanks again.
This is not the end: it is not even the beginning of the end. It is perhaps the end of the beginning.
-----Original Message-----
From: SchrLLATnospamaol.com [SMTP:SchrLLATnospamaol.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 1997 2:11 AM
To: pawlATnospamfirstnet.co.uk
Subject: Re: piercing the rudra knot
In a message dated 97-11-04 11:44:52 EST, you write:
> And, at last, I have a question. Can you set me straight....
> *Questions*: What is the significance of the throat blockage that was /
> maybe still is? Although it's not so dramatic and pronounced, it's still
> working away within me, no?
ATnospam->->--The throat area is, according to yoga, the area of joy/sorrow. In
bioeneretics is can be blocked and the voice will be too, or open and
expression if freed up.
My experience has been unusual in the throat area. Here I feel a fluttering
when there is truth, love, and joy. It is the place where one feels
constriction when one is sad and wants to cry.
Your blockage is simply an expression of your feelings of blockage. It could
come and go. Learn to be friends with it and listen to what you are teling
yourself.
Love and Light, Linda
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 12:59:25 +1100
From: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
To: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Thoughts
Message-ID: <01BCEC49.D99ACD60ATnospampppclient5.canberra.edu.au>
-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Webb [SMTP:shawebbATnospamyhc.edu]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 1997 2:49 AM
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts
Hi Everybody,
CGIAJW wrote:
>>If someone suffers, that is why they reincarnated, and they are
learning their important lessons, if someone helps them, that was already
planned too, and that is part of the lesson.>>
[>] Does this presume one reincarnates only as a human being? If so what basis exists for that conclusion.
Rebirth is the transmigration of the soul. The soul in a human structure may move to a cow structure, to a camel structure, to a jaguar structure. The soul moves but where to - whose rebirth is it to be? It is one's reactive momenta that determines the situation - the shape that one's mind takes through one's actions giving rise to the requisite reaction. Naturally if one focuses one's mind on the highest attainment the scope of reactive momenta driving the mind to lower desires is considerably weakened.
As long as the I-feeling exists there is the possibility of rebirth. But when the waves of vitality and the psychic waves become parallel with the state of Cosmic pause no more rebirth is required to perpetuate the I-feeling.
[>]
seems to preclude free will, doesn't it? And if we throw out
free will, then it seems to follow that any lesson "learned" was
predetermined; therefore, nothing was learned at all.
[>] The consequence or the reaction of what a person did according to one's expressed direct free will is simply converted into their indirect will today and for the experience of reaction, one's indirect will forces a person to do the work mechanically. That is, your previous action created a particular situation in the universe and now in order to restore normalacy you are compelled to act. In an action of this nature, individuals have no free will. You are then only a slave to the dictates of your indirect will.
Suppose a person committed a theft. While stealing, the independent will of that person worked and now that will ultimately results in actual theft. As long as the reaction is not expressed, their independent will which was responsible for the original action remains in seed form, converted into reactive momenta. The moment the indirect will gets a congenial environment, the person will either be arrested by the police or they will undergo some other negative implication, punishment or humiliation and thus they will have to reap the consequences of their actions.
In the same way, good reactions of good actions are also, experienced by individuals. Until one's reactive momenta (colloquially called 'karma; by most) are totally exhausted, one will either have a blessed life due to one's virtuous deeds or one will be called a sufferer due to one's non-virtous deeds. Once all the good and bad reactions are undergone, they are beyond the bondage of vice and virtue.
All actions, whether crude, physical, extroversial or subtle are sure to remain with the individual in the potential form of seeds of reaction. These potential reactions, with the help of indirect will, get expressed in the external world. Suppose you do harm to a person, then the reaction of your action will lie in potential form. At a proper time and environment, you will have to experience the reaction. And again, even if you actually do not harm anyone but you mentally think of doing harm, accordingly the corresponding reactive momenta will remain with you. Whatever may be your feelings towards a person, whether good or bad, there is sure to be reaction and that reaction remains in potential form in your subtle mental sphere. This is the reason why intelligent people look upon this universe with an attitude of equanimity and pray for the welfare of all.
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 13:14:34 +1100
From: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Cc: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: Karma was: Re: Re: Thoughts.
Message-ID: <01BCEC49.DC064F20ATnospampppclient5.canberra.edu.au>
-----Original Message-----
From: Debora A. Orf [SMTP:dorf01ATnospammail.win.org]
On Fri, 7 Nov 1997 CGIAJWATnospamaol.com wrote:
What about all the monks and yogis from
> almost all religions which take vows of silence and hermitages and
> seclutions?
To be indifferent to mundane duties or to fly this world with a stoic detachment is but a mental disease. Those who want to give themselves up to divine contemplation in the caves of the Himalayas, leaving their hearths and homes, are mostly wrong in doing so. How can one dedicate oneself for the attainment of good there?. When Supreme Consciousness is everything, where is the justification for leaving one place for another? To be forgetful about family and society is completely contrary to Divine Contemplation.
Nobody can live in seclusion. The hermits who lived in caves in the Himalayas in the ancient and medieval ages should have lived in society and served the society. They failed to do so because they were guided by a sort of befooling dogma.
How is it possible to make a proper adjustment among the different spheres of existence through this means - other aspects of life would be neglected.
There is no person placing blame and directing punishment. Suffering is a
natural part of this existence according to Buddhist thought.
[>] Buddha clearly and firmly supported the doctrine of the rebirth. In fact, no doctrine before him had placed as much stress on the theory of rebirth as he did. One who accepts the theory of rebirth is bound to accept the existence of atman/soul also. If the atman is non-existent, then who will take rebirth?
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 23:00:20 -0600
From: elaine backal <glenda7ATnospamairmail.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Thoughts.
Message-ID: <3463F1E4.6F04ATnospamairmail.net>
Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
>
> >At 06:30 PM 11/6/97 -0600, Debora A. Orf wrote:
> >
> > Vacuuming is mindless
> >enough i can make a meditation of it if i'm in the right mode and you'd be
> >surprised how quickly it gets done. Ever try to just really VACUUM?
> >
> True enough.. Zen and housework, the right focus/non focus and I am a
> white tornado, I get it all done so amazingly fast and well.. it
> embarrasses my slaves.. hatred of housework is the reason I started
> collecting them in the first place.. now they are there and I don't have to
> do it, I don't mind it so much. Less resistance = greater efficiency.
> It is the best excercise for my body type, and more interesting/useful
> than working out.
> I put my mind on something else, and let my body do it.. since the body
> is a trillion times more intelligent than the mind, it is more efficient,
> too.. there is no wasted movement.
> Ask someone to hold their arm straight out and keep it there in a normal
> state, and they will get tired soon. Hypnotise someone and suggest that
> their arm can float, is floating up by itself, and they can hold it up
> there limp all day and not feel the weight. Thier muscles are acting in
> perfect balance. Effortless.
> The fatigue, comes from resistance.. limiting beliefs causing the muscles
> to pull against each other unequally. Body/mind fighting itself!
> Under hypnosis, belief is aligned, limitations are suspended, and holding
> the wieght becomes effortless. No resistance.
> Under stress, a mother lifts a huge truck off her child.. she did not
> stop to consider her limiting beliefs, she simply acted without thought of
> failure.
>
> Funny, the things one does instinctively. Last night I had a man standing
> a few feet in front of me, as I sat. We were looking at each other. On
> impulse, I drew a power breath and gently blew it at him. He slowly began
> to topple over backwards.. the expression on his face as I reached out and
> pulled him back to vertical vas priceless..
> Cool stuff. Blessings, Mystress.
>
>
> Mystress Angelique Serpent,
> Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
> Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
> :D ;) :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :D :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :)
> Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at
> different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing.
> -- Clive James
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Hello Mystress....my name is Elaine and I am born psychic that has just
opened to Kundalini, telepathy, psychic healing, pregognition...I have
held everything back up until 1 year ago thinking I was weird or it
really wasn't possible...a dear friend of mine of 10 years that has
worked with psychics for many years has been helping me...upon my Mater
Teachers attunement in Reiki and living through cancer, I opened to my
gifts and found a whole new world waiting for me...I have never been
this happy in my life...I work in a drs. office with about 8 woman and
girls and they will stop and ask where someone is in the building or to
look for an answer to a questions about someone and I just plug into the
universe and go for it...I guess if I could sum it up to all the
wonderfully gifted people out there I would say not to wait until you
almost die to live. we are not the strange ones for living with our
gifts, the rest of the world is wierd for not using theirs...I will love
and thank my friend for all the lives we have shred including this one,
from the bottom of my heart...
I deeply enjoy your postings Mystress...Love and light...
Elaine
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 00:58:52 -0500
From: dante rosati <danteATnospampop.interport.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Re: Thoughts (Angelique)
Message-Id: <l03110700b089a3dd3a90ATnospam[204.74.5.151]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Angelique wrote:
(I don't think I wanna call you "Mystress". I worship women, but as equals,
not dominants. :-)
I believe it says somewhere in the Tantras:
The man sees the woman as a goddess,
the woman sees the man as a god.
By uniting the diamond septer and the lotus,
they should make offerings to each other.
There is no form of worship beyond this.)
anyway, getting back to your excellent post:
> Precisely so: it time and space do not exist, then how can there be any
>thought of "progress?" There is no here or there to get to. All of eternity
>is in the Now. The Universe has already ended, you are already reunited
>with Creator, and have never been separate. All paths must lead to Goddess,
>coz Goddess is All that is, and so how can we not go to Her?
> Perhaps there is none, only the soul experiencing, not for lessons
>already learned, but simply for the joy of being, in the infinite
>multiplicity of the present moment.
Indeed, but if this is accepted, then there is no way out of a radical
acceptence of >all< experience, painful as well as pleasurable, as bliss.
> When we seek an orgasm, or a perfect ripe peach, we do not go looking for
>lessons, but experiences. Yet in the fullness of the experience, we may
>connect more deeply with Goddess than in the self doubt of introspection,
>prayers of penance.
You used two examples of things greatly pleasurable, which are easily seen
as desireable experiences without needing a "lesson" attached. Is it
possible to accept this with things not usually experienced as pleasurable?
Could one accept, say, a protracted bout with cancer as, not a lesson, but
a perfectly fullfilled experience-in-itself? This would truely be
practicing Tantra in a "cremation ground". Not for the squeamish!
> Yet throwing out the search for lessons in favor of the search for
>experiences, does not preclude free will. We choose our experiences, many
>before birth, co creating each moment. We choose how we feel about our
>experiences, which shapes them by our free will.
This is surely "how it works", but its not "what it is". Who is doing the
choosing? If we all are the Goddess/Divine/whatchmacallit, then that
Divinity is doing the choosing, and does not need to "learn" anything. But,
in a sense, neither does it need to "experience" anything. It's
Heidigger"s "Why is there something rather than nothing?" question. I think
perhaps here the trail peters out, the trail of conceptual understanding,
that is.
What are we left with? Being yourself, in the sense that you manifest
whatever you manifest, whatever you want to manifest, and that its a fluid
process, a stream that can change course at will: our will, that is. But
the bottom line is: we're all doing just want we want to be doing, always -
no exceptions.
> If time and space do not exist, then the moments of choosing, before
>birth are also in the power of the present moment. It's never too late to
>have a happy childhood.. :)
If all "incarnations" are simultaneous, then all choosing affects all of
them, simultaneously. Its awesome!
dante
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 13:04:16 +0300
From: "Tucker" <4tuckerATnospamusa.net>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: New to list....
Message-ID: <01bcec2d$ad52cee0$LocalHostATnospamTucker.admiral.ru>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
I'm about 20 yrs
> 3. When did you first become aware of kundalini in your life?
I think I become aware of it when I understand what's kundalini is,
but there were some experiences before....
Very often I have lucid dreams, the first time I noticed it was when
I began to read about mystic/paranormal or some kinda things....
This year I felt very strong feeling (that's a _bliss_), when I Love
everything and everyone and everywhere. Every next time this
feeling become stronger and longer. I can't and don't want to stop
it for hours, if it possible I want feel it forever....
> 6. What has changed/is changing in your life?
After that I start to learn and understand more: spiritism, yoga,
magick, free will, meditation, healing....
That's all help me feel stronger and closer....
> 9. What are you hoping to get out of this list?
Everything that can help me to understand more....
> Guru can be everywhere. So...
I'm really want to find Guru, is it possible to have him remotely?
Is there any Guru's center where to find teacher in any country?
e-mail: 4tuckerATnospamusa.net icq# 4502757
Tucker
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 09:41:59 -0500
From: "N. Eckert" <watrfallATnospamniagara.com>
To: <BedawnedATnospamaol.com>, <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>, <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts
Message-Id: <199711081508.KAA25077ATnospamchardonnay.niagara.com>
> << CGIAJW wrote: >>If someone suffers, that is why they reincarnated,
and
> they are learning their important lessons, if someone helps them, that
was
> already
> planned too, and that is part of the lesson.>>
>
> <<SW- This notion seems to preclude free will, doesn't it? And if we
throw
> out free will, then it seems to follow that any lesson "learned" was
> predetermined; therefore, nothing was learned at all. >>
>
> It depends how "free" we really are. All are pre-determinedly blessed
and
> cursed by the genetic contributions of our parents. No one is completely
> free. But suffering and giving compassion (at point X or Y in one's 15th
> lifetime :) may have been freely and willfully agreed to either prior to
our
> present life in a spiritual existence OR freely and willfully
subconsciously
> agreed to in (Joseph Campbell's) web of present day life.
>From my walkout experiences and other's near death experiences that I hae
read about I have the following ideas:
I believe that we choose our parents, family situation and plan out our
lessons to be learned before birth. We do this on our own with the help of
spirit/God and our spiritual elders. I see spirit as being more of an
conductor, making suggestions and helping us to organize ourselves..spirit
then sends us on our way.
In this there is total choice because whatever situatin we find ourselves
in we have chosen that path.
It's a really healthy way of looking at life.. it doesn't give you the
iberty of going around and blaming others for your own state of life and
makes you take responsibility for your situation.
just a few thoughts
Nancy E.
WaterFall in spirit
>
> "My freedom is killing me." --George Sand :)
>
> yours, Melissa
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 10:01:42 -0600 (CST)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com,
"kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: Karma was: Re: Re: Thoughts.
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971108094328.5204B-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 8 Nov 1997, Dieter Dambiec wrote:
<< [>] Buddha clearly and firmly supported the doctrine of the
rebirth. In fact, no doctrine before him had placed as much stress
on the theory of rebirth as he did>>
Yes he did, but,
<<. One who accepts the theory of rebirth is bound to accept the existence
of atman/soul also. If the atman is non-existent, then who
will take rebirth?>>
Not to be picky, but there is a 'slight' misunderstanding on the Buddhist
idea of rebirth. Its the stickiest sort of thing to explain too.
Buddha clearly rejected the idea of individual unchanging atman. Anatman
is the word that pops up in the Sutras.
What is reborn is best described as habits. Habit energy. I call it the
mindstream/lifestream. Its not unchanging, its not the same 'person' every
time. Its the unextinguished karma from previous actions. Hopefully i'm
not out in left field, but what is reborn is the sum total of previous
actions/decisions. Its like the coffee cup with the cloud in it sorta.
you are what you do/think/decide and what happens is what happens. And if
anyone else out ther with a better take on this who is a bit more
eloquent, i will stand down :).
when i've gotten in 'soul discussions' with others is that most people are
ok with the idea of whatever changing and evolving. Of being part of the
whole.
Yours,
--jampa
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