1997/11/03 08:51
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #727
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 727
Today's Topics:
Re: does God get crabby? [ freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net> ]
Guardians [ Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu> ]
Re: Guardians [ aman <amanATnospamwaena.edu> ]
Re: does God get crabby? [ Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.co ]
New Subscriber [ aman <amanATnospamwaena.edu> (by way of My ]
Re: need to know [ "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhot ]
RE: A question for Dieter [ Nancy <NancyATnospamwtp.net> ]
Re: Introduction from a newbie. [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
Re: An unpleasant experience [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
RE: A question for Dieter [ Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.c ]
Re: need to know [ E Jason <vv60ATnospamdial.pipex.com> ]
true colors [ hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Ba ]
RE: A question for Dieter [ Gloria <glorybeATnospamintrepid.net> ]
visitor & cabage [ freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net> ]
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 11:37:06 -0800
From: freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net>
To: lodpressATnospamintercomm.com
CC: "Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D." <hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: does God get crabby?
Message-ID: <345CD662.54E6ATnospamblarg.net>
Gloria, Your post to Holly was terrific. I have been doing this one
sence I was a child and for me it has been very helpful. I wasn't very
confidant as a child about the religion my family taught because they
didn't live it very well so it seemed unreal but I felt God to be real
and easier to talk to.
Religion and dogma can be very harmful to children, it could have been
much worse for me had I not had this trust in God, as an example:
I was six and I was visiting for a few weeks with my aunt and uncle.
They were of the mind that one must eat everything on ones plate. I did
not like cabbage raw. They had left me at the table until I cleared my
plate and I was discussing the cabbage issue with God when they
overheard me. ( I felt god had made a mistake when he made the cabbage,
but I was complementing him on his fixing the problem when he made
lettuce, which to a six year old would make perfect sense)
I got my mouth washed out with soap. I was spanked and then they lecured
me on the proper way to address God. In prayer. and more prayer. and
more prayer!
By the way, God was not upset.
--
Freda ~ BE-IS-AM
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/01rg/hm/frhm.htm
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/01a/mnf/mrite.htm
ICQ # 4323543
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 12:04:19 -1000
From: Ruth Trimble <trimbleATnospamhawaii.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Guardians
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971102115008.897G-100000ATnospamuhunix4>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Freda:
I enjoyed your story about the grey haired protector. It reminded me of an
incident which I still find amazing, but I wonder if any one else has ever
encountered this.
I was in a car driven by a former lawyer boyfriend. My young daughter was
in the back seat and he was trying very hard to flirt with me while
driving. He was not paying much attention to the narrow road when a car
pulled across in front of him from the right . I knew in an instant that
we were destined to collide with this car and instantly something like a
force came out of my 3rd eye and literally created a force-cushion between
his car and the other car, so that we stopped within 1" of the other car
and did not hit it. The three of us all looked amazed at how we did not
hit this other car..and I could feel the tingling in the 3rd eye from this
energy coming out.
I have since noticed that it has happened to me at
other times when I saw something about to happen. I was helping a friend
move and the stairs were very steep. I stepped carefully down the stairs
and when I got to the bottom I turned to see if he was able to get down
safely. He had two large suitcases in his hands and the stairs were just
too narrow for his body and the two cases. He began to fall.. and time
went into slow motion...I saw at least three possible scenarios of how he
could be killed or injured with this fall before my eyes even as I saw
these scenarios happening... then suddenly I was "back" in this reality
again and he had some miraculous luck in that he landed at the bottom on
his feet... against all odds and logic. It seems I had somehow created
this ending for him. It did not make any
sense to him nor to me. But again I recognized the tingling in the 3rd
eye. He should have been seriously hurt.. but he
wasn't. My friend who knows him who is psychic, said that I had
created this ending from my power.. Well I heard of my guru doing these
things, but it is another thing when you find it happening around
yourself. So whether the guardian is a person or personal power, it shows
you not to worry... I think! We are in good hands.
Ruth
*****
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 16:33:06 -0500
From: aman <amanATnospamwaena.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Guardians
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971102163259.007f5100ATnospamwaena.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>force came out of my 3rd eye and literally created a force-cushion between
>his car and the other car, so that we stopped within 1" of the other car
>these scenarios happening... then suddenly I was "back" in this reality
>again and he had some miraculous luck in that he landed at the bottom on
>his feet... against all odds and logic. It seems I had somehow created
Paul Twitchell, the founder of Eckankar, writes that once he was actually
teleported! Robert Monroe, OBE researcher and writer, also relates similar
tales when he was a younger long before he had any idea about 'this stuff'.
He also notes that money would appear in his pockets when he was broke.
Jeffrey Wm Milton Tel:(203) 486-5593
Advanced Technology Group Tie: 376,5593
Internet Division, IBM
150 Kettletown Rd, MD224
Southbury, CT 06488 jwmiltonATnospamus.ibm.com
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 14:54:11 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: fredaATnospamblarg.net
CC: "Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D." <hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: does God get crabby?
Message-ID: <345C8603.2690ATnospamintercomm.com>
freda wrote:
>
> Gloria, Your post to Holly was terrific. I have been doing this one
> sence I was a child and for me it has been very helpful. I did
> not like cabbage raw. They had left me at the table until I cleared my
> plate and I was discussing the cabbage issue with God when they
> overheard me. ( I felt god had made a mistake when he made the cabbage,
> but I was complementing him on his fixing the problem when he made
> lettuce, which to a six year old would make perfect sense)
> I got my mouth washed out with soap. I was spanked and then they lecured
> me on the proper way to address God. In prayer. and more prayer. and
> more prayer!
> By the way, God was not upset.
That is great, I can see you sitting there doing that, it is just to bad
the relatives couldn't see the beauty in it. But still, you can't let
that effect you, it is something you know inside and shows you felt
secure enough to communicate, life is made of those special moments.
Gloria
> --
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 04:23:22
From: aman <amanATnospamwaena.edu> (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: New Subscriber
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971102042322.2ad75ab2ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello everyone,
I am new to this mailing list and am very excited I found it. Just
curious, about how many people are on this list?
I have a couple of beginner K questions. Is there a particular physical
discipline that enhances the flow of K? Of course I have tried various
yogas, but only a few and without much success. Presently, when I feel
that swelling of the energy I just physically exert myself (running or
other excercises) until I'm exhausted. If nothing else I'm getting my
excercise, but I am sure there is a better way to properly direct or
release this energy.
My other question is; Are O.B.E.'s a result of K? Or is it the other way
around?
Thanks, Aman
Jeffrey Wm Milton Tel:(203) 486-5593
Advanced Technology Group Tie: 376,5593
Internet Division, IBM
150 Kettletown Rd, MD224
Southbury, CT 06488 jwmiltonATnospamus.ibm.com
))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
***List Mystress note to Aman: the correct posting address is below:
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kundalini-l-ownerATnospamexecpc.com
Love and electric blue K. fire, List Mystress.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 14:59:18
From: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com> (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: need to know
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971102145918.523fc27cATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
** susan, the posting address is kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com. you sent this to
the request address.**List Mystress.**
Hi,
It has been several months since I have been active on this list...Looks
like a good place to jump in again.
You wrote:
Agree entirely. The effort to raise the kulakundalini [the divine =
energy in the base of the spine] is through internal meditation, while =
shattering the bondages of hatred, suspicion, fear, shyness, and so =
forth, by direct action is the external world (ie a service minded =
psychology). As part of the external fight one has to develop vigorous
=
control over worldly conduct and expression, while in the internal fight
=
one has to arouse and elevate his kundalini against crude thoughts with
=
all the stamina of his intuition.
I will state right up front that I believe there is no fight -internal
or external- in the raising of kundalini whether thru spontaneous
awakening, shaktipat, or a seeking to raise it on ones own.
To me it is a process of surrender...
I believe the awakening of kundalini brings the aspect of grace...we
will move forward regardless of our practices. The energy itself will
transform our practice so that it will support the rising of kundalini.
Walking into a garage does not make me a car. Surrounding myself in
specific structures and practices does not necessarily make me move
closer to enlightenment.
Now it is your choice to not surrender and in effect this may slow down
the process of rising kundalini. But She will not be
denied...eventually you will worship Her and delight in the ecstasy of
Shakti...if not in this lifetime then maybe the next.
In my own life I practice movement meditations which spotaneously bring
kriyas which clear my body and spirit. My practice is
intuitive...sometimes I hear her voice in the voices of my awakened
friends.
I have no real teacher now except my heart and spirit. I dont think I
had any real specific guru figures other than I love Guru Mai...but I am
not a practicing disciple.
My belief is that transformation can be an easy path...my life and the
life of my awaked friends testify to it. Dont get me wrong...I have
some real rough times...but I trust the intelligence of Shakti. But it
seems humans do their damndest to make getting closer to Source the
equivalent of walking on broken glass.
Surrendering to Love makes Seva (service) a joy and effortless.
Surrenering to Love transforms crudeness in any form.
I find in my own life that surrendering to the Love that lives in my own
heart is often harder than giving Love to others.
I can not often give to myself what I am so good at giving to others.
Then could I really call what I give to others Love or just a shadow
image of the Love I give to my Self?
This is one of those things that I am working to make real in my
life...Love of Self...little self too.
Namaste,
Susan
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 15:58:51 +0000
From: Nancy <NancyATnospamwtp.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: A question for Dieter
Message-ID: <345CA333.5409ATnospamwtp.net>
Dieter Wrote:
Mere reliance on feelings without even a minimum application of
rationality easily leads to the demise of a person.
It is an utter illusion to suggest that one can base their life on
feelings alone. It is a very risky path. One simply races after the
idea that has come into one's mind, like an unbridled horse, without
considering its good or bad consequences. The horse may move along the
right path, or it may fall into a chasm. One cannot be certain.
Hi Dieter,
I would propose that we can become equally immersed in illusion if we
follow our mind. In my experience, overreliance on logic leads to
decisions that seem to make sense but really don't fit my heart, my
soul. I tend to assess information in a logical manner. But when it
comes time to make decisions, I follow what my heart tells me.
Yes, I occasionally have "bad" consequences. The unpleasant occurences
were not from following my heart. These were from plodding through life
unconsciously and not listening to my intuition. Many times I've ignored
internal warnings only to get my ass kicked by life. I'm learning to
listen to that voice within.
Sometimes, I completely trust my feelings when making decisions. Other
times, I rely on my logic. Sometimes I incorporate both. Is one way
right? One way wrong? I don't think so. I just think each way produces a
result.
My experience has taught me to listen to intuition, check it out with
logic and make sure it feels right.
Nancy
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 01:53:53 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Introduction from a newbie.
Message-ID: <1333597532-17317552ATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Angelique wrote:
> Hello, Len, Welcome.
> I have read your same story many times on this list.. 12 step programs
>and KA. do seem to go together sometimes...
And I think that some people drink or drug in order to try and make the K
go away! When that doesn't work, they end up in 12 step programs and the K
returns, but then at least they have some support for dealing with the
symptoms (which are sometimes ironically seen as mere evidence of
withdrawal from the chemicals). Ain't life a kick?
JMHO,
amckeon
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 01:53:49 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: An unpleasant experience
Message-ID: <1333597537-17317284ATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-No-Archive: yes
Daniel wrote:
>I went to talk to a psychic about kundalini.
<snip>
>After I left her, I felt like there wasn't an ounce of goodness in
>me. I felt drained more than ever before.
Thank you so much for sharing this story with the list. I too had this
experience. However, I had not gone to see the "psychic" specifically about
kundalini, as I didn't know that that was what was happening to me. I too
felt I was a "bad" person after talking with her. I had gone seeking help
and came away feeling as if I didn't have the right to be alive. The
experience was that negative. Luckily, I seem to have a big inner block
against suicide, or I may have attempted it several times before I was able
to "get over it."
Daniel again:
>This isn't the first time I've thought that I've
>felt the pain (or pleasure) of another as if it were my own. Can anybody
>relate?
Yes. I am the big "sadness sponge" for my family of origin. And, this
reminds me of an old David Bromberg tune "Someone Else's Blues" (from the
album "Wanted Dead or Alive"). I searched the net today but couldn't find
the lyrics... But perhaps some of you as old as I am remember them...
Thanks again for sharing,
amckeon
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:59:19 +1100
From: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
To: "'kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com'" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: A question for Dieter
Message-ID: <01BCE893.C98F9CC0ATnospampppclient5.canberra.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Webb [SMTP:shawebbATnospamyhc.edu]
Dieter,
The poem is lovely. Is it yours?
[>]
Most surely is - the worst is yet to come :))
[>]
>>If one bases one's actions in this world only on feelings that in itself
is a limitation.
Of course it is. And I would add that the tool kit of logic, without the
balance of feeling, of love, of compassion, of acceptance, must fail when
it tries to capture the ineffable.
[>] I think there is a somewhat of a distinction between logic and rationality. Logic is simply a type of 'survey' of the terrain. Rationality has the extra chacteristic of human welfare (which of course entails love for humanity). It certainly involves some form of discrimination for promoting human welfare. It may also be called "conscience" (or in sanskarit 'viveka'). Essentially it is spiritually based.
Discrimination: An extremely useful tool...provided that discrimination
admits to itself that maybe...just maybe...it does not always have enough
information to discriminate intelligently.
[>] Such is also the nature of human beings, ie to make mistakes. You may have heard the story of how that great 'yogi' and spiritual preceptor Lord Krsna died. It is something like this:
Lord Krsna sat quietly under a tree on a stone. The lower portion of His feet was reddish. A hunter, Jara by name, saw something reddish under the tree and took it to be a bird or the like. He shot a poisonous arrow that struck Lord Krsna's feet. He came in search of his prey and found Lord Krsna instead. The body of Lord Krsna was getting bluish because of the working of the poison. The hunter confessed his serious mistake. Lord Krsna consoled him and said:
"Such mistakes are committed by human beings. Had I been you, I might have committed the same mistake. You have not committed this mistake intentionally. Never mind it. In the world such mistakes are committed by people. You did not know before hand that I was here. You should not be punished either legally or morally, as such mistakes are committed by people. I forgive you."
Saying this, Lord Krsna left His body.
[>] That's how simple it is. I don't know about others but this little story means a lot to me.
Sentiment: Nothing more than trivialized emotion. The mind, when it so
chooses, has the ability to trivialize true feelings by denigrating these
as "sentiment" and thus dismissing them because it is less painful to
dismiss, than to feel.
[>]
I probably would have said the same thing in my previous post - but you know being sensitive to all this sort of thing :)), bit of tact needed.
Devotion: A curious mixture. With balance, with faith in greater being,
with a modicum of trust, it can transfigure; without balance, with only the
blunt tools of the mind alone, it can build prison cells with the dry
bricks of dogma.
[>] Indeed for what may be colloquially called 'spiritual capitalists' this may be the case. In that capitalist structure, industry or production is governed by the profit motive alone, but in the 'spiritual socialist' structure production is governed by the motive of consumption of more Bliss :) and that is for all, governed by their own incentive also I may say.
[>] Of course some may say that once convinced that the nearest and dearest one is the Supreme Consciousness, God or whatever one likes to call it, the Soul of souls, then .....
Dieter
[>]
··
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 05:08:28 -0800
From: E Jason <vv60ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: need to know
Message-ID: <345DCCCC.6512ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
Susan Carlson wrote:
> Hi,
> I will state right up front that I believe there is no fight -internal
> or external- in the raising of kundalini whether thru spontaneous
> awakening, shaktipat, or a seeking to raise it on ones own.
>
> To me it is a process of surrender...
True enough (surrender to Goddess - not ego - for those wondering). These of course are
not the same thing. People try to capture and repeat experiences they like (greed) and
avoid what they find disruptive or intrusive (conflict). This is why at some point in
the surrender process we have to give up the search for and attachment to ecstasy and be
more accomodating, gentler and more harmonious with areas that we consider unspiritual
or to be avoided.
> I believe the awakening of kundalini brings the aspect of grace...we
> will move forward regardless of our practices. The energy itself will
> transform our practice so that it will support the rising of kundalini.
>
> Walking into a garage does not make me a car. Surrounding myself in
> specific structures and practices does not necessarily make me move
> closer to enlightenment.
:)
You can sit in as many cars as you like without ever learning how to drive. Driving is
an active participation. Just getting in different cars until one turns up the
destination is a strange concept. Good luck!
Yes there is Grace and there is also the creation of a suitable vessel for the Grace to
manifest.
Everything is fine - people are happy :)
Something changes and people say 'why did it happen to me'. We must prepare for
change; be accepting of difficulties that teach us so much and grateful for and
appreciative of this good. Change is inevitable. Our attitude to change - can change.
> Surrendering to Love makes Seva (service) a joy and effortless.
> Surrenering to Love transforms crudeness in any form.
>
> I find in my own life that surrendering to the Love that lives in my own
> heart is often harder than giving Love to others.
Giving Love is the only way (one can not take Love but one may receive it).
> I can not often give to myself what I am so good at giving to others.
> Then could I really call what I give to others Love or just a shadow
> image of the Love I give to my Self?
>
> This is one of those things that I am working to make real in my
> life...Love of Self...little self too.
It comes as a surprise to many of us that we are worthy of Love, that we may give this
to ourselves as well as to others. So how do we increase in Love?
1. Personal transformation
2. Increase in doing good
3. Developing time to appreciate and enhance
4. [yet another way]
most kind regards
Lobster
> Namaste,
> Susan
>
> ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 09:18:09 -0600 (CST)
From: hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: true colors
Message-Id: <199711031518.JAA25030ATnospamdfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com>
This autumn in D.C. is my first in 22 years and it is breaking my
heart. Los Angeles had autumn but it was more subtle -- this one packs
a wallop. An article in the paper reminded me that the reds and golds
we see in the leaves before they die are their true colors, masked in
youth by the need to produce chlorophyl. Nature flames out.
I will turn 50 this weekend. I think K is gonna help me flame out,
too.
Holly
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 10:45:50 -0500
From: Gloria <glorybeATnospamintrepid.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: A question for Dieter
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971103104550.006f0248ATnospamintrepid.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>oh Dieter!!!! Your poem has so spoken to my heart...please do share more
of your poetry!!!! For various reasons, I have lacked the mental focus to
respond in any meaningful way to all your postings, Dieter. Please know
that I have read them with much interest and appreciate your contributions
to the list very much. Sharon's question to you has evoked a very fruitful
exchange of ideas about the nature of feelings...the complexity of which
similarly overwhelms me at the moment...( I am recovering from major
surgery and on pain pills the last couple weeks which cloud my mind and
makes any thinking seem a great effort.) So I am saving your posts to study
later..just wanted to thank you for your considerable energy devoted to the
list here recently.. and to request more poems.. :))))) With true
devotion, Gloria Lee
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sharon Webb [SMTP:shawebbATnospamyhc.edu]
>
>Dieter,
>
>The poem is lovely. Is it yours?
>[>]
>Most surely is - the worst is yet to come :))
>
>[>]
>>>If one bases one's actions in this world only on feelings that in itself
>is a limitation.
>
>Of course it is. And I would add that the tool kit of logic, without the
>balance of feeling, of love, of compassion, of acceptance, must fail when
>it tries to capture the ineffable
.
***** BUT !!! Poetry does capture the ineffable so well.. so often...look
at Rumi..******* And your story about Mistakes.. which I will also delete
from this post was such another expression of compassion...Dieter, you are
a rich treasure, indeed, to share your wealth with us here on the list!!!
Thanks, many thanks... Gloria Lee
>
>
>
>
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 07:52:17 -0800
From: freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: visitor & cabage
Message-ID: <345DF331.4B3ATnospamblarg.net>
Good Morning All,
After a very enlightened weekend I am feeling refreshed and full of
life! I thank all for your kind words and your insights about my
protective friend. I am looking forward to his next visit, should he
choose to visit again.
Also, I am grateful for your responses to my cabbage story. Gloria's
suggestion to Holly prompted the memory of that event as well as others,
I have always felt close to God and he/she have been with me in joy and
sorrow. Together we have had conversations which have included side
spitting laughter as well as deep felt sorrow. I am grateful for the
relationship which is perhaps the only relationship I have ever known
which has never, ever required that I pretend to be or feel anything
other than what is at any given moment, although I've been guided to
see my mistakes. Inevitable I suppose.
Thank you all again.
--
Freda ~ BE-IS-AM
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/01rg/hm/frhm.htm
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/01a/mnf/mrite.htm
ICQ # 4323543
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