1997/10/23 08:27
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #538
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 538
Today's Topics:
RE: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
RE: specialness
RE: specialness
RE: Enlightened Ego?
RE: The gaining of knowledge comes from many a source
RE: channeling - in defence of the Vedas..
RE: specialness
Re: specialness
was "specialness" will be again
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 21:43:10 +1000
From: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
To: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-ID: <01BCE002.64DB95C0ATnospampppclient6.canberra.edu.au>
-----Original Message-----
From: Rita Ginsberg [SMTP:RitaG39ATnospamix.netcom.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 1997 1:57 PM
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Then, at that moment, I surrendered myself
to God, and prayed. For a moment, I felt His presence and with my
request, he answered me and the experience was over. I then laid in bed,
in the middle of the night, and I was back to my waking self. I could
hear the early morning birds, and then I pondered the meaning of life...
[>] Nice story.
[>] Mother is cooking. The son suddenly cries for his mother to have her near him. Mother gives him a toy and the son gets so enamored to the toy that he forgets all about his mother. But when a son does not forget his mother or stop crying in spite of the toy in hand, mother is compelled to embrace him and take him into her bosom. The son, too, holds his mother with one hand, holding the toy with the other. God is compelled to surrender Himself to the wise Sadhaka, who does not forget Him for the love of this creationlike toy - who does not relax his efforts for the attainment of God. - Anandamurtiji
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 21:50:55 +1000
From: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: specialness
Message-ID: <01BCE002.68D9EC80ATnospampppclient6.canberra.edu.au>
-----Original Message-----
From: Gloria Greco [SMTP:lodpressATnospamintercomm.com]
When the reality comes through the vibration is entirely different. This
is not to say you don't have it in you Mystress, you are just not
allowing the pure essence of the spirit to do the work of removing the
ego/self.
[>] Cent Per Cent Surrender It's not enough to get the way, for one also needs to walk on that way, on that path.
The strength to move forward lies within you--the only impediment being the encumbrance of reactive momenta that is on your head due to your past actions. Remove the "burden", be light and march on.
Bhagwan Buddha said the same thing when he asked his disciples to jettison the burden that is in the boat. Desire is, therefore, not enough. One needs to perform some tangible action. It is called intuitional practice, spiritual cult.
This cult is also called Tantra. It's not enough to read books, scriptures. One will have to be practical, will have to do something in practical life.
You need to move towards the fundamental positivity. Thus through Sa'dhana' (meditation), one makes one self light and at the same time feels His attraction. Furthermore, one needs to surrender oneself completely. Until and unless there is cent percent surrender, it is naive to dream in terms of accomplishment of the task.
The story goes that so long as Draopadi had even a grain of dependence on her own strength, she remained constantly under the threat of being exposed before the congregation. The moment she found herself completely helpless and reposed all faith in the Lord--the Na'rayana, she got divine help.
So one who feels this attraction and surrenders oneself completely to Him, one is bound to get His help. On the other hand one who keeps even a paisa with oneself fails to get it. [>] (Anandamurtiji)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 07:35:39 -0500
From: jeannegATnospamicon.net (Jeanne Garner)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: specialness
Message-Id: <199710231235.HAA20175ATnospamns2.icon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dieter wrote:
>[>] :Love of God entails granting freedom to all beings. Justifying one's
preference of having slaves is not freedom. History shows freedom comes
from struggle.
..."freedom to all beings"--would this include freedom for the
above-mentioned slaves to remain in bondage? Or only the freedoms you choose?
Jeanne
==-* My stars!
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 22:18:04 +1000
From: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: Enlightened Ego?
Message-ID: <01BCE002.6D67B200ATnospampppclient6.canberra.edu.au>
-----Original Message-----
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent [SMTP:mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 1997 3:16 AM
To: Ken McFarland
Cc: Kundalini
Subject: Re: Enlightened Ego?
> The Path of the Sexual Healer
On a rough estimate the following are the causes that lead to crimes involving cruelty:
1. Lack of judgment in an intoxicated condition or in a fit of extreme excitement.
2. Clash over properties.
3. Severe blow to one's prestige or the urge of the sex passions.
4. Affaire de coeur
5. Acute difference of opinion.
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 20:34:54 +1000
From: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
To: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: The gaining of knowledge comes from many a source
Message-ID: <01BCE002.4A67BC00ATnospampppclient6.canberra.edu.au>
-----Original Message-----
From: zarcon pitom [SMTP:zarconpitomATnospamhotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 1997 6:12 AM
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: The gaining of knowledge comes from many a source
If i am completely etheral can i feel?
No because ether is essential the medium for sound inferences.
All things are purposeful.....do you not recognize them for what they
contribute?
>The purpose can be good (sattvik - sentient), mutative or static. Mind needs to discriminate which it wants. If it chooses statice or bad influence only then that will create clash in the human society so other can liberate themselves from the selfish preference of one or group of persons. In this respect Hitler was purposeful indeed but purposeful in a negative destructive sense.
talks of pain.....if it works for her and those she
shares experiences with fine...
Didn't work for the negro slaves on which it was inflicted!!! They sought to destroy its perpetrator, ie the social system. Similarly all people will rebel against the one that inflicts it. Hitler meet his end that way.
It is best not to be completely etherial as the purpose of the human body is so that the mind can do meditation.
Aout his identity Shankaracarya said:
" Manobuddhyaham'ka'ro citta'nina'ham. Na ca shrotra jihve na ca ghra'n' netre Na vyoma bhu'mirn'a tejo na va'yuh. Cida'nanda ru'po shivo'ham' shivo'ham'.
That is, I am neither Mind, nor Buddhitattva ( ` I am' feeling) nor Ahamtattva ( ` I do ' feeling) nor Citta ( ` Done' I); similarly I am neither eyes, nor ears, nor nose, nor tongue, nor skin; again I am neither ether nor air, nor fire, nor liquid nor solid. Then what am I or who am I? I am Shiva - consciousness and bliss personified.
The science to convert the microcosmic stance into the macrocosmic stance is called the Spiritual Practice. In Spiritual Science ` Yoga' has been defined as - " Sam'yogo yogo ityukto Jiiva'tma Parama'tmanah", ie., to unify Jiiva'tma' ( unit consciousness) with Parama'tma' ( Supreme Consciousness) is what is known as `yoga'.
Then are the unit consciousness and the Supreme Consciousness two separate entities? No, they are not separate. As long as the unit Consciousness is under bondages, it is moving round and round in the cosmic cycle of creation subject to life and death of microcosms. When its objective mind by dint of sadhana (meditation and spiritual practices) exhausts all its acquired reactive momenta, it becomes one with the Supreme Consciousness. In fact between Jiiva'tma (unit soul) and Parama'tma (Supreme Soul) , there is no difference except that of samskara (reactive momenta) and upadhi ( epithet for 'extra qualification' on unit consciousness).
Any action, whether for self-preservation or spiritual practice is not possible with out the grace of the Supreme. But His grace does not come automatically - to merit it human beings must perform more virtuous deeds. Only simple, beautiful and unblemished virtuous deeds can please Him, and cause Him to show His blissful Grace of the spiritual aspirants. In our daily lives we notice that a mother gives some toys or food to her child before she attends to her household duties. After playing with its toys for awhile the suddenly remembers its mother and cries out loud to attract her attention. Maybe she's still very busy, but when she hears her child crying she will stop whatever she's doing and rush over to her child. To stop it crying she may give some more sweets or toys. If the child continues to demand the mother's presence she is compelled to keep the child on her lap and pacify it by caressing it. Similarly, a sadhaka (spiritual aspirant) should also ardently call Parama Purusa (Supreme Consciousness) . His attention is bound to be drawn, and by His grace will allow the sadhaka to attain liberation. Parama Purusa is non-discriminating - He makes no distinction between the virtuous and the sinful. It's only the society which discriminates between the two. Both the virtuous and the sinful are His progeny, so both are equally dear to Him.
[Note one can just as easily substitute Her if desired. Classic literature however tends to speak in the male gender. But it matters little.]
The concepts of virtue and vice originate in the human mind. Due to the influence of certain propensities the idea of sin originates in the human mind and as a result people commit acts of sin in the external world. As soon as the influence of those negative propensities is removed from the mind many pious thoughts - the honest desire to do good to others - arises in the mind. When these so-called sinners earnestly call the Supreme One and surrender themselves at His altar out of devotion, then they no longer remain sinners. By the grace of merciful Parama Purusa they rise much higher than ordinary people. The lives of the bandit Ratnakar and Aungulima'l are clear testimonies of this fact. With in a short one and a half hour span what a great change took place in the heart of a bandit who had mercilessly killed over one thousand people without the least prick of conscience. The rogue Ratnakar was transformed into the illustrious poet Valmiki. Does anyone have the audacity to call Valmiki a bandit ? Hence the wicked and the virtuous are equally entitled to attain salvation. The merciful Lord has given clear assurance of His shelter to the so-called sinners by saying,
" Even if the sinner of the sinners meditates on Me with undivided attention I will also liberate him."
Supreme Cognitive Faculty is consciousness personified. He is not bound by the bondages of relativity. Invariably microcosms are in triple bondages.
Anandamurtiji
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 23:11:36 +1000
From: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
To: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: channeling - in defence of the Vedas..
Message-ID: <01BCE009.0BAAC640ATnospampppclient6.canberra.edu.au>
-----Original Message-----
From: Sen Ashanka [SMTP:sashankaATnospamaismi.ais.it]
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 1997 8:17 PM
However, as far as inequalities are concerned, are any two human beings
equal ???
[>] "Diversity is the law of nature; uniformity will never occur."
Don't confuse this with the need for a principle of social equality
[>] Preaching disparity amongst human beings, or disparity amongst living beings -- human beings, animals, birds, plants, etc. -- is not morality. The Supreme Equality, the Supreme Spiritual Stance cannot be achieved where there is any thought of disparity. So at the very start, one must practise these two types of morality and become one with them. Now, morality is the base, and the Supreme Stance is the goal. Morality propels the microcosms towards the Goal.
Now the question arises, by what inspiration, by what strength, and towards which goal do human beings move? It has been observed that human movement is inspired by two ideas. Principle of Selfish Pleasure and Principle of Social Equality. The Principle of Selfish Pleasure rests on dogma.
So the endeavor to advance towards the ultimate reality by forming a society free from all inequalities, with everyone of the human race moving in unison, is called Social Equality. We must totally reject all those hypocritical ideas which are contrary to Social Equality, and we must welcome all those ideas which will help human beings to be established in it. All opposing theories must be removed mercilessly, just like thorns from our path. And in this process we must not give indulgence to any dogmas or supernatural ideas. This should be the task of the present human beings; all people should combine their efforts and strive unitedly to accomplish that end.
This is why we have the philosophy for the
intellectuals, the bhakti (devotion)
path for the sentimental and the karma (work) path for the strong. All of
these lead to salvation.
If someone is even more enthusiastic he/she may take up all three together
(yoga).
[>] Karma Yogins who always, always engross themselves with action and work only for the sake of work enmesh themselves in the trammel of action. Such action is really a bondage. What is the way out of bondage? Ideation that God is everything and what you are doing is God also. As the intellect of a Jina'nii is the cause of bondage if it is not mingled with devotion, similarly, devoid of the celestial touch of devotion, the action of a Karmi (one who performs action) cannot be helpful in attaining liberation. Now let us think about devotion.
What is love ? That which makes mind soft and so strong and strenuous as it may keep itself in a balanced state even in the condition of pain, and creates perpetually a pleasant feeling within, is called love. Devotion is identical with love. They are invariably related with each other. The moment devotion is aroused, love for God comes.
Devotion is bliss incarnate. Where pleasure and pain both are in equipoise we call it the state of A'nanda, ie. infinite bliss is called A'nanda. For a devotee; devotion is life. The end of devotion is the death of the devotee. That is why the devotee says to the Lord-Lord! I don't want anything, but if you want to Leave me anything, give me Bhaktii ( The highest kind of devotion ). I want only devotion and nothing else. The Sa'dhakas (spiritual aspirants) who love God for the attainment of bliss are also strong ones, but they are not great ones. They may be strong devotees but not great ones. Only those Sa'dhakas are great devotees who do not aim simply on attaining bliss but work for giving bliss to the Supreme.
Devotees render services to the people because they know in the heart of their hearts, that the universe is the manifestation of Parama'tma'. Every mundane creature is the progeny of the Supreme. If one will do service to the people it will be tantamount to please God. A devotee performs Sa'dhana (meditation and spiritual practices) only because God wants this. Thus a devotee performs sa'dhana' only to please God'. Anandanmurtiji 14-10-66
The basis of all forms of love and morality and non-violence. In fact
Buddha did not
intend to start a new religion, but only to correct the social rot in the
Brahmin-oppressed
society.
[>] Non-violence is a tricky one.
[>] In all actions of life whether small or big the unit mind progresses by winning over the opposing trends. Life develops through the medium of force. If this force is not properly exploited, life will become absolutely dull. No wise person would do so, because this would be contrary to the very fundamentals of human nature. The champions of non-violence have, therefore, to take to hypocrisy and falsehood whenever they want to use this cult for any other intent.
One will have to guide one's conduct carefully to ensure that one's thought or actions cause pain to nobody and are unjust to none. Any thought or action with the intention of causing harm to someone else amounts to violence. The existence of life implies destruction of certain lower forms, no matter whether there is intention of doing harm or not. The process of respiration kills thousands and thousands of millions of protoplasmic cells. Whether one knows it or not, in every action such living cells are dying and getting destroyed.
These are to be done for self-defense. Had you any intention to harm any body while preparing rice? It is thus seen that life depends on other forms of life for its very existence.
[>]
Mahapurusa Shrii Krsna had insisted upon the Pandavas to take up arms against the Kaorvas, because the Kaoravas were aggressors who had taken possession of the land by force. None would accuse the very incarnation of love, Shriiman Mahaprabhu, one of the great revolutionists in social and spiritual world, of adopting ways associated with intention to inflict violence; but he too had pounced like a lion on the tyrant Kazi (Judge).
If violence and use of force were synonymous, Maha-Prabhu, the incarnation of mercy, certainly would not have done so. The use of force against an aggressor is valour and desisting from such use of force is cowardice.
But the weak person must assess his strength before indulging in violent conflict with a powerful aggressor; otherwise injustice gains temporary triumphs, if a fight is started without acquiring proper strength. In history such mistake has been called "Rajput folly". The Rajputs always went forward with courage to resist Mughal invasion. No doubt they fought valiantly, but they faced the enemy without assessing their own strength. They suffered from intrigues and hence they always lost battles and died a heroic death. It is, therefore necessary to acquire adequate strength before declaring a war against an aggressor. To pardon the aggressor before correcting his nature would mean encouraging injustice. Of course, if you find that the aggressor is bent on destroying you, whether you use force or not, it would be proper to die at least giving a blow to the best of your might without waiting for collection of adequate forces.
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 08:59:30 -0500
From: jeannegATnospamicon.net (Jeanne Garner)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: specialness
Message-Id: <199710231359.IAA22065ATnospamns2.icon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>From: Jeanne Garner [SMTP:jeannegATnospamicon.net]
>Sent: Thursday, October 23, 1997 10:36 PM
>
>.."freedom to all beings"--would this include freedom for the
>above-mentioned slaves to remain in bondage? Or only the freedoms you choose?
>
>[>] Definitely not. Absolute truth demand this cannot be the case.
Socially moral people have to fight even for the enslaved who fear their
freedom.
Ok, so: who gets to decide what is "socially moral?" Would it be Krsna
devotees, the Catholics, the Sufis, or...?
Jeanne
==-* My stars!
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 08:28:17 -0700
From: freda <fredaATnospamblarg.net>
To: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: specialness
Message-ID: <344F6D11.2718ATnospamblarg.net>
Dieter Dambiec, you write:
>Sprititual
>revolutionaries will be at the hub of the social cycle to guide and control
>the movement of the society. They will not allow anyone to perpetrate
>torture or exploitation.
Are you serious? Are you refering to the history of THIS planet? Pretty
words, very little truth in them however.
--
Freda ~ BE-IS-AM
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/01rg/hm/frhm.htm
http://www.blarg.net/~freda/01a/mnf/mrite.htm
ICQ # 4323543
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 09:48:45 -0700
From: E Jason <vv60ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: was "specialness" will be again
Message-ID: <344F7FED.51E5ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
> It is no lie.. it is true that we are all of Goddess.. The lie, is that
> we are less. Like your quote from Nelson Mandela.. it is our magnificence,
> which frightens us. The path is of realization of this truth, that we Are
> Goddess. Spirit, having a human experience. Is every mantra, affirmation or
> prayer a lie?
Angelique I accept and know my divinity - I just do not make a big song and dance about
it. Of course you and everyone is special, unique; a manifestation of the divine.
So what?
So everything . . . OK . . . but it is also no big deal. To experience it is right. To
celebrate it is right.
The difference is so subtle.
To allow this light to flow through the ego, will strengthen the ego. For the light to
shine stronger the importance, impact and distortion of the ego must be lessened.
> You think folks are sheep, who need to be always reminded to think for
> themselves?
My Dear Angelique, we are all sheep (having a tendency to heard mentality - "yeah! know
that heard that!") and need to remind ourselves (whilst we address others) to think, to
not take things at face value and so on. Yes I think folk are sheep, because I am one of
those folks who need constant reminding . . .
> Was telling the Geniuses that you are a woman, honesty? How about the pic
> of you in the gallery? Is this a true representation of your appearance?
> How can you type with claws?? Doesn't your keyboard short out when it gets
> wet? ;)
When people deride women on the the Genuis forum - I am a woman - not physically but
Goddess in Spirit - as you would say. As for the pic in the gallery, is that any more me
then the sack of flesh and bones I inhabit? People (sadly) judge by appearances. I want
to be 'judged' on what I say and the effect it has, not on my sex or species :)
> >The problem with Boddhisatvas, Goddesses and so on is they start to
> believe their own
> >publicity.
> That is an interesting way to think of realization.. learning to believe
> your own publicity, from a spiritual standpoint. Interesting idea, thankyou.
People may think they are Napoleon - heroically they may try to invade Russia. The
winter is colder than their reality.
The divine does not need to believe or disbelieve anything. It knows. It does not have
to reinforce or protect its position. It can not be attacked or reinforced. It has no
position to defend. It needs no publicity.
> >I realise that your conception of diety includes me. However I have a
> Higher Concept of
> >Deity. Is this just a question of semantics?
>
> Perhaps so.. to my perspective, your denial of divinity inside yourself
> suggests lack of realization. You would in ego, separate yourself from
> Goddess. To my mind, such is impossible illusion.
I do not, could not deny divinity; inside or out.
> Why you choose to believe yourself separate puzzles me, as I see the
> light inside you shining even thru your email. I accept that this
> perspective is your own free will choice. Cool. Have fun.
Ask yourself:
Do you serve the Light
or does the Light serve you?
This is not a contract (except on the lowest level).
Perhaps you answered too quickly - laughing - "Of course I serve the light".
Let me put it another way, how can we lessen so that the Light may increase?
> So, I have stopped responding to your mail, except when you address me
> directly. Usually, your purpose in writing is an attempt to tear down my
> beliefs. Why you seem to find my beliefs so threatening as to need to
> attack them whenever they come up, even while insisting I am of no
> importance.. is a contradiction within your own self, for you to sort out.
Angelique you are of importance. How can I find your beliefs threatening? I have always
thought of you as a sweet and gentle person covered by a rather unusual ego.
Unless a wall of 'belief' is built it can not be torn down. What shall we call this
edifice?
> I suspect, from my experience of similar interactions, it is possible you
> are a closet submissive maschochist. Those are usually the only folks who
> fix on me in that way, with such issues. I suspect that is why you have a
> fixation on humility, tho you do not really write with much humility...
Yes I may be a closet masochist :D
If I can be a woman and a lobster, why not this? If we try to aim for the highest we
must accept that we are capable of the lowest. We can not think that we are better than
the confused, the insane, the crimminal or even the sexually individualistic :D That
divine in them is in us too.
My fixation on humility and my sometimes (a lot lately) arrogant email are difficult to
reconcile for others. For myself such behaviour is what is required at a particular time
- though I have no doubt there is always a better way. Is there a more effective way of
engendering movement in people? - I have no doubt that my efforts are very clumsy and I
constantly try to refine and improve them.
> Thus, you have manifested me and my ideas into your life, coz on some
> level you need 'em. I don't expect you to agree with this.. coz you are in
> denial!! Tee hee!
What is there to deny. Of course you are manifest. Which of course is what you would
expect me to say. Teehee indeed.
> This perspective of you in no way interferes with my perception of you as
> Diety.
> Semantics?? To me, one who most values humiliation and suffering, and
> seeks it actively, is a submissive maschochist.. yes, that includes lots 'o
> christian saints, and tons of holy men in india who stand on one foot
> staring at the sun for years.
I would accept what you say. A taste for humiliation and suffering is an unbalance
(whether inflicted on self or others). I am reading a book called Sufi Women. Quite a
few of them did so much wailing and weeping they eventually went blind. Like all people
who engage in extreme practices (sleep deprivation, fasting, constant Koranic recitation
etc) they developed tremendous knowledge and abilities. Such public and obvious
behaviour may inspire some people. We all respect people who have developed extreme
abilities, whether in sport or reality.
The Siddhi practices of India, do not automatically lead to real understanding or wisdom
(just psychic abilities) and are actively discouraged by genuine Gurus. Such behaviour
is unbalanced - people standing on one leg usually topple over eventually anyway :)
> I accept that their paths are right for them, or they wouldn't be on them.
> They are perfect expressions of Goddess, too.
This idea that we are all on the right path is true but does not mean we should not
straighten and improve. Nobody is on the wrong path, the question is - which and where
is the better path?
Most Kind Regards
Lobster
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