1997/10/22 00:34
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #533
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 533
Today's Topics:
Re: channeling
Re: A question about a change for the worse
Re: channeling
RE: specialness
seeking knowledge - how does one find it, when and where
Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
RE: 8 Psychic Channels -read this, Marlene!
Pardon my English-NOT!!!
Re: Query about Descartes, etc.
Re: seeking knowledge - how does one find it, when and where
Heritage
Re: A question about a change for the worse
greetings from cold New York City
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:43:45 -0700
From: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
To: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: channeling
Message-ID: <344D05EA.54344F52ATnospamgeocities.com>
Dieter Dambiec wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: anandajyoti [SMTP:anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 1997 3:02 PM
>
> David Bozzi wrote:
>
> > anandajyoti wrote:
> >
> Buddha himself never uttered a word on God. His realization was "Suyanta"the great void.
> He showed the way to Buddhahood, and social participation, through the practice of Dharma.
> Dieter Wrote>
> [>] > So it is
> > no coincidence that Buddhism nowadays is a huge deluded mess, for its
> > origins can be traced back to the deludeness within the Buddha > himself.
>
> Anandajyoti>
Buddhism today, if as you mention is deluded not , in my view, due to Buddha himself. Buddha remained silent on the Question of existence of God.Why? Because, as Christ, the Jesus said::" I have not come to destroy but fulfill"
When Buddha expressed as Buddha, history tells us the social conditions at the time. The ordinary people although having the spiritual yearning were not supported by the Brahminical priest hierarchy, due to the caste system, so obnoxious, was prevalent. I wish to add here that I am a Brahmin by virtue of the family I was born in. Today the caste system still exists, although the influence of the Western civilization has penetrated the Indian scene, and things have changed in urban areas, where inter caste marriages are in vogue, nowadays, but rural India is yet to experience en- masse, the freedom from the shackles of
the caste system.
Buddha's attaining Buddha hood was influential to a great extent to the changes which came in to the social order.
The people in India found another way to look at life of social participation, other than the shackles imposed by Brahminical Traditions.
No doubt it infuriated the priests of the Brahminical tradition.
This is where friction in the society came also.
Two hundred years later Buddha's original way of Dharma was intermixed with the Tantrik traditions of India and Tibet, and practices of Black Magic, Spiritism came into mainstream Buddhism of the time. Then it flowed to China and Japan, where it further got diluted by local practices and spiritual thinking. This brought in so many sects of Buddhism into the world ,as we find it today.
> Dieter wrote>
> Why did India accept Buddhism? There are various reasons for this and the main ones are as follows.
>
> Firstly, The scholars never preached philosophy to the common people. They hated the language of the common people.
>
> Secondly, there was no eminent philosopher at the time of the acceptance of Buddhism.
>
> Thirdly, the people in general were not ready to accept the pandits or scholars.
>
> Fourthly, the A'caryas of that age, Shrii Sainjaya and Shrii Gaya' Kashyapa, could not convince Shrii Buddha. All these factors led to the wide propagation and acceptance of Buddhism.
> Anandajyoti>
For the above, I think I already expressed my view in the fore going.
> Buddhism believes in the rebirth and transmigration of souls, so the question arises,who is reborn if there is no Supreme Soul (A'tman)? This question became a point of controversy among the Bhiks'u and later among the Maha'ya'nii scholars.
> Anandajyoti>
The acceptance of rebirth was already there in India, so also the Law of Karmawere prevalent according to the Brahminical traditions. These ideas did not come from Buddhism. Buddhism rather negated the idea of the Atman (SOUL)and God.
> Dieter wrote>
> Buddhism believes in Karmaphala ar the reaction of actions. If karmaphala is accepted the question arises who performs karma or actions and who gets the karmaphala. Therefore, the existence of A'tman has got to be recognized.
>
> Towards the end of Buddhas life some of his disciples asked Buddha about the existence of God. They asked two questions: "Does God exist?" and "Is it a fact that God does not exist?" In reply to both questions Buddha remained silent. As Buddha remained silent to both the questions some of his disciples interpreted that there is no God. Another section of disciples understood that God exists. Yet a third section came forward with the interpretation that there is a God, but God is beyond the expression of Asti and Na'sti or "is" and "is not"; that is God's existence is inexplicable. Actually God is supramental.
Anandajyoti.>
The ideas arising out of the followers of Buddha, were already present in the Indian society, through Hinduism. There were people who believed in God, there were people who did not believe in God, and there were people who vacillated in between. The same conditions exist even today all over the world. The spiritually inclined, materialistically inclined, and atheistiscally inclined. We are all conditioned through our environment from birth. Time is to dehypnotize ourselves and be open and respectful to all peoples irrespective of their beliefs or the path each chooses to take for the journey towards self realization,
or any other material objectives in life. Let them be.
We cannot teach or change anyone but ourselves, through our interactions, exchanges with others and own experience and the understanding of it.
It does end there but, that's I feel , is the starting point. The real drama
begins when we apply our experiences , our learning individually right in our kitchens, in our bed rooms, in our schools and universities, in our clubs, in our ghettos, in politics, in economics, everywhere.
Then only we shall feel the ever present existence of our Creator or our Self ,whatever name one may choose to relate to it, in the here and the now.
Have we progressed yet even after the last 2500 years?
What is new, pray?
Anandajyoti
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:01:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
To: "Joseph Miller" <joemillerATnospamhotmail.com>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: A question about a change for the worse
Message-Id: <199710212001.NAA29691ATnospamgridsat.thegrid.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:29 AM 10/20/97 PDT, Joseph Miller wrote:
>
>Where did this new age bullshit come from that says, "If you get in
>someone's face, lampoon an idea they hold dear, act rudely, or in
>general attempt to question ideas in any but constructive ways, you are
>doing someone a favor by helping them deal with ego issues?"
>
>Why is the sole responsibility of the person receiving the flame to
>"deal with the issues?"
>
One of my favorite ways of addressing this issue with a New Age type
Christian group I used to hang around with was to ask,
"What was the ego issue Pilot was trying to teach Jesus about?"
I left the group once I couldn't help but think along that line when the
notion came up again and again.
Like so many ideas, it works well for a little while anyway...
M
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:57:46 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: channeling
Message-ID: <344C98B9.5016ATnospamintercomm.com>
Dieter Dambiec wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gloria Greco [SMTP:lodpressATnospamintercomm.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 1997 9:12 PM
> You can read anything from the occult and also the eastern Note:
I put these exist in the astral and lower areas of consciousness, I
didn't say it existed in the beyond state. Gloria
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:59:07
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: Dieter Dambiec <d.dambiecATnospamstudent.canberra.edu.au>
Cc: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: specialness
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971021125907.31ffa046ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 22:17 21/10/97 +1000, Dieter Dambiec wrote:
>Visualisations, like all occult phenomena are mere distractions in the
pursuit of the more important objective.
>
>One is unable to reach the Cosmic Consciousness with the help of
analytical mind. Visualisations are simply that.
>
Thankyou for sharing your opinion, I am not certain if I truly clearly
understand you scholarship.. however, I disagree with what I understand of
your position. Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you..
Connection to the Divine is up to the Divine, IMHO, and it is not limited
by our ideas of limitation, as you suggest. Most in this listspace have
been spontaneously awakened.. Goddess chooses to intrude upon consciousness
as She will. She hears our logical and analytical thoughts/choices, in Her
way. To read this, I feel that you are trying to apply limits to what
Cosmic Consciousness is capable of.. LOL!
The leap into higher consciousness is by a leap of faith,.. yet there
comes a point, where a leap of faith into the unknown, becomes a logical
next step of a mental construction of faith in higher truths. The path to
the Divine, is a path created of logical steps, persuasions accepted,
choices made logically as well as intuitively.
If not, why would we have volumes of spiritual writings to help guide our
path? These would be effectively useless, if there cannot be any connection
between personal consciousness and cosmic consciousness. For that matter,
why write this post?
The power of persuasion, to get the "lower consciousness", to step aside
in favor of higher. This is the desired effect of Sacred texts.
The first step along the path to enlightenment, is usually a logical
one.. a choice to pursue a certain goal, for the rewards it promises. All
of those desires/attchments must be given up, in the end, to reach the
goal, but they are nevertheless important steps to getting there.
One of the most powerful experiences of cosmic consciousness I ever
experienced, was triggered by a very common logical question.. "Who am I?".
A window opened, I fell thru it.. I tripped into a sense of self that was
nameless, limitless, ineffable, older than time.. my awareness streached to
the limits, could comprehend only a teeny tiny portion of this sudden
vastness.. which was adamant in response to my queries, that It was Me! I
contemplated this mystery for over a year, looking for a name for this
Goddess, tho she had been clear that no name could represent Her
vastness..even my application of gender, is a mental limitation of Her ....
but makes Her easier to identify with, as self, at this time.
Finally, I came to the simple conclusion, that I had been given a glimpse
of self as limitless soul. Awesome.
I think it took me so long to get to this conclusion, becuase my earliest
christian religous teachings seemed to describe the soul as a fragile thing
that could be harmed by human actions.. LOL! NOT!!
From a list Mystress point.. it is an ethic on this list, to respect the
many diverse paths of awakening experience.. as being correct for the folks
who practice them, in the interests of harmony and ongoing debate. There
are many "occultists" like myself on this list.. and we do indeed find
value in such things, whether you think they are "distractions" or not!
You are welcome to speak of your own experiences.. I hope you do, but
you cannot speak for me, coz you are not me, and have not had my experiences.
thankyou for sharing your opinions of reality.. do you have any
exeperiences of your own with which to back up your assertions? Or do you
make these assertions out of a frustration with a lack of spiritual
experience in your life?
I am wondering.. Blessings Mystress.
Mystress Angelique Serpent,
Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
:D ;) :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :D :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :)
Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at
different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing.
-- Clive James
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:22:06 PDT
From: "zarcon pitom" <zarconpitomATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: seeking knowledge - how does one find it, when and where
Message-ID: <19971021212208.6013.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
The Physical seeking knowledge thinks:
How can one truly know Good, If one does not know what Evil is
How can one truly know Joy, If one does not know Sadness
How can one truly know the Light, If one does not know what the Darkness
is
all these are like two sides of a coin.....you cannot have one without
the other
And so, while Good and Joy and Light are what is strived for, Perhaps it
is necessary to know what is Evil and Sadness and Darkness.....For only
when both are known is it possible to strive for the that which is
cherished so highly
Are you at peace with your self? Do you hear your inner self? What does
it say?
"Seek and ye shall find" is a definitive truth.....yet to seek something
you must first know what it is that you seek.....Do you know that which
you seek?
The Inner Voice.....The Self.....The voice of truth that sets you on
your mission quest shares with you that which you need to know when you
need to know it (perhaps a sort of brake to prevent information
overload). Have you dreamed lately? Do you recall your dreams? look to
them for their meaning.....they tell you much that you need to
understand. They represent your inner voice....Do not augment your
dreams by filling in the blanks......They will no longer tell the same
story they meant to tell.....Write down your dreams EXACTLY as you
recall them.....Then look at what you have written.....Can you see? What
do i mean by can you see......i shall express it better this
way.....there is a difference between looking at something and seeing
that same thing......seeing shows the details.....looking is merely
peripheral (a glance as it were)
I have seen good and it warms all it touches
I have found joy and the merriment bursts forth and the dark clouds
disperse
I have seen the light and it is brilliant and warm
Study the chakras yes.....there is so much to learn
Study the ways of evil to learn the ways of good.....for even evil can
teach what not to do and those can be valuable lessons
Learn the ways of pleasantness for those are the ways of joy...they
encompass honour, charity, foster understanding, helpfulness.....good
attributes all of them.
The light is upon all those who truly seek it.....raise up to the light
it is there to all who wish to enter the doorway.....
many have spoken of techniques.....this is good
many have spoken of spirits.....this is important knowledge
have you spoken of the reason for your search.....i think not and this
is important too.....ask your Self.....you do not need to share this
information, it is for you alone.....
my ship is not yet in port.....it is on the sea.....bobbing like a cork
in high water....it is safe......what of yours?
i have seen death and birth
i have seen much sadness and much joy
i have turned from the light and i have returned to the light
i have done much in my lifetime.....
most people are ignorant of the evil in the world.....for it is
great.....
Now lists such as this are bringing people together for good and that is
desperately needed.....share the good.....share the joy.....maybe just
maybe others will see the light and ask you to introduce them to
it.....hope is for every last person as yet unaware of what can and does
await.....will you help? or will you treat this as a big secret? will
you teach the curious? Will you help the student? do not answer me.
answer to yourself.....i need not know.....
the seas are high, the volcanos active, the winds are full against the
sails
the earth shakes and still beauty abounds.....time marches
forward.....the night is bright.....the day seems short and
still......ahh the serenity at times and the voices of the wilderness at
others.....both speak volumes.....Do you hear or do you just listen? "K"
Surges forth.....and it is good
i preach not for i am not a preacher....
i am what i am and that's all that i am.....(who said that anyway?)
i ask only that you teach me that which is knowledge for i am still
learning and i ask you now one question and make of you one request.....
What is knowledge? Please teach me!
Comment to MrNamaste: i trust you will be back with us soon and no doubt
others look forward to your return as well.
Namaste Ashtu and Mangalum
zarcon
i am of the ages
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:52:54 -0700
From: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
To: jayarajATnospamrocketmail.com
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-ID: <344D080E.56C738E1ATnospamgeocities.com>
jayaraj batumalai wrote:
> WOULD LIKE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT KUNDALINI......PLEASE SEND A GOOD GIUDE
> LINE,,,,,,
Anandajyoti>
I would suggest read the book by Swami Sivananda Radha title:
Kundalini Yoga for the West, published by Timeless Books, 1215 Washington
Mutual Building, West 601 Main Avenue, Spokane , Wa. USA, 99201.
You would have the opportunity to share her own experiences if you do read
it.
Anandajyoti
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 16:39:02
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: Tom Bradley <tombATnospamphonelink.com>
Cc: "kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: 8 Psychic Channels -read this, Marlene!
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19971021163902.458f1c8eATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
But what if ya don't HAVE a penis??!!
Marlene, do you have a penis??
Well, technically I own my slaves' bits.... so I have 3 penises.. but
that makes these instructions turn into a wierd game of "Twister".
LOL!!
Thanks for the info, anyways...
Blessings, Mystress.
At 12:51 21/10/97 +-100, Tom Bradley wrote:
>>
>> The eight main psychic channels:
>>
>> 1 tu mo
>> Channel of control that rises from the base of the penis and passes the
coccyx up the backbone to the
>> brain
Mystress Angelique Serpent,
Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
:D ;) :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :D :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :)
Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at
different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing.
-- Clive James
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 21:04:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: BedawnedATnospamaol.com
To: tombATnospamphonelink.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Pardon my English-NOT!!!
Message-ID: <971021210257_-1671611178ATnospamemout19.mail.aol.com>
Dear Tom!
You've got a sympathetic ear here. I was telling an acquaintence about my
Irish heritage, you know, stuff like when exactly my Irish immigrant
ancestors came to America. HE being of English descent said, "Oh, so you're
English, too."
I wanted to spit. AS IF! I was far too flustered to conjure some cutting,
barbaric (befitting the Irish :) retort. And I marveled that he, who was
just as American as me would inherit as part of his mindset the domineering,
arrogant, nationalistic HUBRIS of the English (at least historically), the
what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine attitude. Geesh.
Another thing, the Englishman who Went Up a Hill and Down a Mountain is one
of my best loved films. It was the first sense I got of Welsh pride...and
it's a beautiful tribute to community. A great story, almost made me wish I
was Welsh. :)
Irishly yours, Melissa
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:02:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
To: TRAITEUSSEATnospamaol.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Query about Descartes, etc.
Message-Id: <199710220202.TAA01283ATnospamgridsat.thegrid.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
TRAITEUSSEATnospamaol.com wrote:
> Your help will be appreciated, I am sure >>
>
>Her local library will be full of information and the librarians will be glad
>to help her find the books.
and also wrote:
> Get me off the e-mail list now I hate this crap >>
>
>Ah, enlightenment.
I reply: I do not know who you are or when you got here but you do seem to
be a voice of reason in this wilderness of ponderous thoughts. Your point
of view is welcome.
M
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:05:43 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: zarcon pitom <zarconpitomATnospamhotmail.com>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: seeking knowledge - how does one find it, when and where
Message-ID: <344CEEF6.4F9DATnospamintercomm.com>
zarcon pitom wrote:
>
> The Physical seeking knowledge thinks:
>
> How can one truly know Good, If one does not know what Evil is
> How can one truly know Joy, If one does not know Sadness
> How can one truly know the Light, If one does not know what the Darkness
> is
> all these are like two sides of a coin.....you cannot have one without
> the other
> And so, while Good and Joy and Light are what is strived for, Perhaps it
> is necessary to know what is Evil and Sadness and Darkness.....For only
> when both are known is it possible to strive for the that which is
> cherished so highly
Gloria responce:
Zarcon has made a great point, since we use both frequencies on this
planet as the testing zone... it is wise to look at the knowledge of
good and evil as literally the human path to realization reflecting ones
place in creation, as directly connected to God as a son/daughter.
.>
> ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
--
Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher.
Gloria Joy Greco
e-mail me at : lodpressATnospamintercomm.com and visit our homepages at:
http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/
&
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/
Hope you enjoy them!
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:52:28 -0500
From: "Gordon J. Bakken" <bgb0163ATnospamrs195261.ks.boeing.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Heritage
Message-Id: <344D787C.41C6ATnospamsgmail.ks.boeing.com>
Ashanka said:
The Greeks looked on the outside world as their source of happiness, and
so we see that the foundatuon of our materialistic excellence sprang up
from there.
Others have pointed out:
The East Indians (Hindus) have given us much of our internal insight,
Question:
What have we gained from our"Judaic-Christian" heritage?
Gordon
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 23:09:57 +0000
From: Nancy <NancyATnospamwtp.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: A question about a change for the worse
Message-ID: <344D3641.1E46ATnospamwtp.net>
Joseph Miller wrote:
>I decided to test her theory about helping others. So, as a
> favor, I finally replied, "Go fuck yourself, asshole!"
Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll try this technique with my ex!
:) ha ha
Most people who are rude, inconsiderate or obnoxious will not even
acknowledge that their behavior could be offensive to someone else. At
least your irritating e-mail correspondent did. She does have a point,
that which bugs us is our stuff. You also had a point with your
response!
Some people will look at a big picture concept and skew it to justify
their behavior. They look outside to define what's wrong with the world.
We all do this at times.
What works for me...releasing the situation with love (sometimes with
gritted teath!)
I enjoyed this post. Thanks for the thoughts.
Namaste,
Nancy
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 03:16:38 -0400
From: dante rosati <danteATnospampop.interport.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: greetings from cold New York City
Message-Id: <l03110700b07350c44ec7ATnospam[204.74.5.151]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The other day I showed God a newspaper clipping telling of the latest
massacre: "Ten Million Dead."
"What about this, God.?"
"Don't try to pin that on me, buddy. I gave you all free will , and if
that's what you want to do with it, don't blame me."
"But God, you made us a little too stupid to know what to do with free
will. You made us think (or allowed us to think) that we're separate egos
in competition and conflict with each other, then you give us free will.
Its like teaching a child that everyone is the enemy, then giving him a gun
for Christmas."
"I didn't teach you anything, I just created you and plopped you down, and
now I'm having a blast watching youall run around like chickens with your
heads cut off. Once in awhile, one of you paints a great painting, shows
kindness to another, or causes to be built amazing machines, and that's
cool. Sometimes one of you causes millions of human beings to be tortured
and killed. That's cool by me too. What's a movie without a little
violence? "
"But God, what about love?"
"What do you mean by that?"
"The perception/knowledge that we are not separate egos in conflict, but
rather we are each other, and we are You."
"Hey, now don't you go around agitating with inflammatory notions like
that. If everyone knew that, the whole charade would be over. Look: I'm
going to let you in on a little secret: I Am Infinite Manifestation.
Everything that could ever be, is, and must be, all at once. What you call
time is just a way of slicing the apple, there really is no sequence. Its
all manifesting simultaneously. You just happen to be part of the
manifestation that looks like this here universe, and it is what it is,
because somebody had to be this particular manifestation. Somebody,
somewhere gets to be a pleasure-and-happiness manifestation, and just as
surely, someone else, somewhere else, gets to be a pain-and-suffering
manifestation. You should realize that, to me, it's six of one and
half-dozen of the other. Just accept your assignment and know that you are
contributing your bit towards Infinite Manifestation."
"Heartless God!"
"What are you talking about? I'm also infinite Love."
"But what about the suffering?"
"I told you, you bring that on yourselves."
"But you allow it to exist!"
"It's not that I allow it to exist, it *must* exist, as part of Infinite
Manifestation. There's another universe down the pike aways in which free
will is combined with love, but that's them, and you're you. In the
manifestation that you're a part of, free will is combined with fear and
belief in separation . In your particular universe, consciousness wants
happiness and instead creates suffering for itself. Just the luck of the
draw. Like I said, its a tough job, but somebody's got to do it."
"But why, God, why?"
"You're beginning to irritate me. What part of "Infinite Manifestation"
don't you understand?"
"I'm not interested in "Infinite Manifestation", I only see human suffering."
"You're too provincial to have an intelligent conversation with. You've got
to see the big picture."
"But God, you made it so we cannot see the big picture."
"Oh yes, you can only see big pictures in that other universe I mentioned.
Sorry."
"Wait, God....I see. We need to experience suffering in order to learn."
"What is it you expect to learn?"
"That we all are, and everything is, at bottom, You."
"But thats always the case anyway. Why would you want to suffer to learn that?"
""We have forgotten, or we are just getting to the point where we can 'wake
up' enough to experience our identity with You."
"But since its just Me anyway, I can only pretend to forget, or pretend to
'wake up'. Where's the learning? Some manifestations will cognize Oneness,
and others won't, 'cause they'll be busy doing something else. You seem to
be overly enamoured with ulterior motives and salvation. All manifestation
has no meaning beyond itself: there is no justification, no progression
except as viewed from time, nothing really "happens", everything just "is".
"You're getting too abstract for me."
"Hey, I'm God. If I can't get abstract, who can?"
"Well, I think I'd rather be a creativity-and-happiness manifestation"
"Fine, then that's just what you're meant to be. Go for it."
"But my life is full of suffering."
"Well, then, up to now you must have been choosing to be a
pain-and-suffering manifestation. Like I said, six of one, half dozen of
the other.... It's up to you."
"But God, its because of my relationship and my family and my job and where
I live that I suffer. I don't want to suffer!"
"(sigh). Oh boy... Listen..., I have to go get started on this new universe
where everybody's gonna spend all day having sex but secretly be thinking
about sitting behind a desk. See ya later......."
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