1997/09/15 15:56
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #446
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 446
Today's Topics:
now
Re: new member
Re: Kundalini or Dough?
Re: New Subscriber
Re: Piercing the Eyes
Charity
Sorcerers Bruxos
Re: Mother Teresa Dies in Calcutta
Re: Piercing the Eyes
Re: RE M.S.
AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Love!
Re: Charity - Give 'em a choice
Risposta: Lessons
Re: what is happening to us explained
Re: what is happening to us explained
computer assitance request: on behalf of Grrrl Jonah
RE: Charity - Give 'em a choice
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 16:20:10 -0400
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: now
Message-ID: <341C46FA.466EATnospammail.snet.net>
Ken McFarland wrote:
> When there are facts that are intolerable to the psyche, a part of our brain
> will create stories or explanations from whatever data is available. It is
> critical that the truth be accepted by the sufferer. The alternative is
> complete break from reality and sanity.
This also applies on the macroscopic level with respect to
the world. The dream of duality, including physical existence
is an experience of a "complete break from reality and sanity."
> Embracing the truth - coming to grips with the truth, no matter how painful
> - will set you free.
Transcending the mold set by biology.
Enforced by culture.
Something's calling my soul.
Calling me to be free.
At first it seemed like I was losing the world.
I am.
But I've gained the universe,
And all her dimensions.
At first I thought I was losing a treasure.
But it was only pain and illusion that I gave up.
At first it seemed like I was abandoned.
But I am everyone.
At first I felt deprived.
But I am all there is.
At first I thought I would die.
But I am Love.
For the longest time it was so hard to let go.
But now I wonder why.
Now I am nothing but grateful.
And now We know.
Now We remember.
We were never apart.
Now
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:06:46 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: new member
Message-ID: <341BE166.7659ATnospamintercomm.com>
Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
>
> >Return-Path:Forwarded Anonymously.
> >From: Anon.
> >To: <kundalini-l-ownerATnospamexecpc.com>
> >Subject: new member
> >Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:35:18 -0400
> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> >
>
>
> >Step by step, due to a growing interest in Zen, I moved away from the
> >promiscuity to a heads on encounter with the "emptiness". I developed a
> >process for 'self-harmony and balance', realizing that "emptiness" really
> was
> >a place of purification from materialism, duality, and conditioned
> identity. I
> >only had to overcome the fear and the seeming remoteness of it. The process
> >involved a series of brief plunges into the "void" with increasingly lasting
> >effects of "Presence" and being in the "now".
> >
> >At one point I became effective at spiritual healing but, seeing how people
> >returned to their old patterns, felt that true healing essentially came from
> >within the self and by the self. This realization served me well in dealing
> >with my own malaise.
> >
> >Recently I have became aware of the aesthetic "fine-tuning" factor which
> >brings one's fragmented perceptions into harmony and balance, into
> >quantum wholes; experiencing the unity and interconnection of all
> >things, the symbolic interplay between the mundane and the Divine
> >becomes apparent, increasing appreciation and creativity of both.
> >
> >Words only words. Can one really comprehend another's experience?
> >What is my destination or have I already arrived?
> >
> >Joy and Love to all.
HI Anon,
Welcome to the list, your experience of finding your path changing is
wonderful indigation of just how much life itself is the teacher. No two
people have the same experience, it is so diversified, yet similiarities
do come in which allows us the benefit to communicate and inspire each
other.
The list is very much like life also, it is constantly changing, if you
are detached enough you can watch the colors ebb and flow as the
energies harmonize and sometimes confront while still staying in the
movement we all know that comes from awareness of kundalini. There is no
going back once this process or awareness has manifest.
We will talk again. Gloria
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Mystress Angelique Serpent,
> Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
> Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
> :D ;) :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :D :0 :) ;P :0 ;) :)
> Swami Beyondananda on the Golden Rule: "It seems that when
> masochists do unto others as they wish to be done unto, they
> become sadists," the Swami said. "Consequently, the Golden Rule
> has been recalled by the Maker until this design flaw can be fixed."
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 14:45:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: M <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
To: Ken McFarland <kenmATnospamOREGON.UOREGON.EDU>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Kundalini or Dough?
Message-Id: <199709142145.OAA16869ATnospamgridsat.thegrid.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:58 PM 9/13/97 -0700, Ken McFarland wrote:
>For many of us - I include myself - life is an extreme difficulty to be
>overcome.
>Often, things are done to us as children which are so unacceptable to our
>knowledge of right and wrong that we cannot tolerate the truth. As a result,
>we struggle to feel good about out selves and to avoid the pain of the truth
>at all costs.
>While at the core we may be feeling degraded and worthless we struggle to be
>the best or the most or the greatest. When this fails, we crank the ratchet
>another notch and create the next level of self-delusion in order to avoid
>the pain of what our life experience has told us is really true about
>ourselves.
>The real truth is that we are all love-worthy. Somehow, each of us must
>internalize this truth, at the most fundamental level. For me, and for
>others, this is not easy.
>May you live in Peace, Love, and Joy,
Ken,
Thank you for being so clear. I had a glimmer of this about you but it is
good to actually know for sure what you are dealing with. Your expression
of it makes me appreciate the trust you must have in us.
All I can offer of a positive nature is that I believe it is possible to
change one's outlook totally. I had felt taken advantage of and quite
bruised (and fairly rightly so) for most of my adulthood. I had to do **a
lot of work** to feel the fairly constant joy and self-love that I do now.
It was worth it, needless to say.
With all good wishes,
M
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:11:42
From: "Sergio Lucio Maria" <sergiomariaATnospammiranet.com.br> (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: New Subscriber
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970914151142.1d2f6194ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
----------
> De: Debora A. Orfby way of Mystress Angelique Serpent
<mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com> <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
> Para: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
> Assunto: New Subscriber
> Data: Quarta-feira, 10 de Setembro de 1997 08:45
>
> Hi,
>
> My name is Debora Orf, i'm a tad over 30 years old now. married, with one
> puppy dog.
> <snipped>
> Coming full circle yet again, i'm curious about kundalini, and its effect
> on one's life. in my case its like below the surface of existence is a
> driving force that wants me to be good, to do good, and to give only love
> and compassion to others. being very fallibly human, i find i don't
always
> listen to it and then find myself in place i don't particularly like or
in
> situations i dont prefer either.
>
> Hoping to meet some new friends on the spritual pathways,
>
> with maitri, (lovingkindness)
>
> --dao
>
>
Dear friend Debora Orf,
I only read today its letter,
But everything well. I am gnostico and Buddhist and all them thousands
of letters that arrive everyday to me I decided to write an answer yours.
Kundalini is a simple and very not very complicated lifestyle, what
complicates the things actually it is out the world . Inside of it owes us
to live the immense softness.
The challenges are every place but with the kundalini the whole thing is
easier, it always exists our guide's protection, that in the Movimento
Gnostico called Divine Mother Kundalini.
The insights is every place... in the immensity of the sky, in the earth,
in the stores, in the city and tie even in a dog of the middle of the
street.
Now... dropping the subject would like to know the personnel of this list
better. I think will order more messages, however the alone computer this
available one for me of Saturday and Sunday. I will try to do my best.
Thank you for its letter,
Sérgio Lúcio Maria
: -)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:04:56
From: Mary Ellen Sweeney <choiceaquaATnospamearthlink.net> (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Piercing the Eyes
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970914150456.1d2f8364ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Ruth Trimble wrote:
> >but in the
> > midst of this I felt my eyes being pierced by the Kundalini.
Well, just as I was wondering if I should even be here, this message struck a
note. This sensation is familiar, and at one time I wondered if it meant
that "something" was trying to make me stop working. Painful! That passed,
and I never did figure out what it was about, but now my right side between
hip and ribs feels as though it is about to implode when I meditate. I have,
I assume from my experiences, reading, etc., been working with awareness of
kundalini for some months (apparently without awareness for many years!<G>)
and I am curious if this is a sign to slow down, perhaps go back over some
earlier cleansing exercises, or to proceed through it. I am alone in this
so far as I have no guru or guide to talk to. I do have support from my
husband, who of course recognizes when I am a little _strange_, and gently
pulls me back, but it's not something I would like to stop working with.
It's very difficult at times. While I don't feel that I can or should stop
meditation, I don't want to inadvertently harm myself either. Any comments?
Mary Ellen
choiceaquaATnospamearthlink.net
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:12:48
From: "Sergio Lucio Maria" <sergiomariaATnospammiranet.com.br> (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Charity
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970914151248.0f7f44d8ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
___Galeria to Be, it Shines and Sea___
sergiomariaATnospammiranet.com.br - kundaliniATnospamrocketmail.com
____Sergio Lúcio Maria______
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2979 /
The charity should come from the heart,
Exist charity as in the occasion of the " New Testament " that Jesus
Cristo saw some people that gave money to the temple in the distance, to
take care of the more poor people.
There was a rich man then that gave money to the temple. Jesus Cristo
said that he had much kept than he had given to the temple and a man a lot
of charity he believed. However a lady widow that placed everything
that had to the temple on behalf of the charity appeared. Now I ask:
Who had the more charity?
Blessings
-------------------------------------------------
Sérgio
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:12:19
From: "Sergio Lucio Maria" <sergiomariaATnospammiranet.com.br> (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Sorcerers Bruxos
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970914151219.0f7f7dc0ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
___Galeria to Be, it Shines and Mar___ sergiomariaATnospammiranet.com.br -
kundaliniATnospamrocketmail.com ____Sergio Lúcio Maria______
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2979 /
Hello for everybody,
I am the tied up people's search to Wicca or pagan subjects. Please to
connect with me.
I am beginner in the subject, now step for one moment difficult of money,
that it would like help. We are going sorcerers, speak!
Blessings
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------Sergio
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:13:16
From: "Sergio Lucio Maria" <sergiomariaATnospammiranet.com.br> (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Mother Teresa Dies in Calcutta
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970914151316.0f7fda7aATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
my first experinece with Chiron was when I was 6.. and
> the chart clearly shows theactual transit of my Kundalini awakening in
> the time frame that it did..
> interesting how the stars seem to vibrate.. grin.. or maybe we vibrate
> with the rythemsof the stars.
> Love,
> flute
I liked this. The stars' intensity...
It seems a story in Beltaine. Did they already hear to speak of Beltaine?
I am studying some things regarding witches. Beltaine is a very
entertaining season, where everybody just gives thanks for they be here and
nothing else!
Peace,
Sérgio
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:24:10 +0100
From: Gloria Greco <lodpressATnospamintercomm.com>
To: "Mary Ellen Sweeney (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>)" <choiceaquaATnospamearthlink.net>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Piercing the Eyes
Message-ID: <341C0FAA.1444ATnospamintercomm.com>
. While I don't feel that I can or should stop
> meditation, I don't want to inadvertently harm myself either. Any comments?
>
> Mary Ellen
> choiceaquaATnospamearthlink.net
Mary Ellen,
Remove the fear and enter into silence for your answer. You will be
guided along. Often you have a block in one or more of your centers
which will cause some discomfort. What meditation technique are you
doing? Gloria
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:09:55 -0700
From: JLewis7639ATnospamaol.com (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>) (by way of ori^ <oriATnospameskimo.com>)
To: Kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: RE M.S.
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970914195521.0069eb10ATnospammail.eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In a message dated 97-09-14 02:15:11 EDT, you write:
<< When there are facts that are intolerable to the psyche, a part of our
brain
will create stories or explanations from whatever data is available. It is
critical that the truth be accepted by the sufferer. The alternative is
complete break from reality and sanity.
Embracing the truth - coming to grips with the truth, no matter how painful
- will set you free.
May you live in Peace, Love, and Joy,
Ken >>
I totally agree, unfortunately Jim stubbornly refuses to face his truth and
resists everyone's efforts to help. There is nothing more we can do. It is
entirely up to him.
Love and Light,
Michelle
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:09:59 -0700
From: rebecca sarinelli <snelliATnospamsonic.net> (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>) (by way of ori^ <oriATnospameskimo.com>)
To: Kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970914195625.0069eb10ATnospammail.eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
wanted to thank you for the advise yesterday..I took everything very
easy and in the evening I layed on the floor and began to meditate
and the energy filled by entire body..I had tremedous release of tension
and a feeling of inner peace and warmth..Today I feel much more focused
and joyfull..
thank you so very much..
Rebecca
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:09:57 -0700
From: "Sergio Lucio Maria" <sergiomariaATnospammiranet.com.br> (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>) (by way of ori^ <oriATnospameskimo.com>)
To: Kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Love!
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970914195609.0069eb10ATnospammail.eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
___Galeria to Be, it Shines and Sea___
sergiomariaATnospammiranet.com.br - kundaliniATnospamrocketmail.com
____Sergio Lúcio Maria______
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2979 /
Hello to everybody of this incredible wonderful list!
It is when it arrives these beautiful days in that everything this well
and pleasant... we liked to order messages!
Message of great love and poetry of Beltaine for all you!
Giving turns around myself... not only in my thoughts, I entered in my
own happiness without fear. Playing seeds without worrying with the future
or the past. Feeding the men's virtue, creating himself as I created others
in the past...
The love expands in million without bill. In the universe, not mattering
with small illusions, without you leave them alone also.
The sword to the enemy, the warrior's virtue, the love of the
illuminated. The compassion of Buda.
Misery doesn't exist, everything illusion!
Love,
Sérgio
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:10:01 -0700
From: Debee <hinhanATnospaminwave.com> (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>) (by way of ori^ <oriATnospameskimo.com>)
To: Kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Charity - Give 'em a choice
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970914195634.0069eb10ATnospammail.eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:04 AM 9/14/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I believe greatest gift we can ever offer anyone at any
>particular moment is neither 'what they want' nor
>'what we think they need more,' but rather A CHOICE,
>and the means to decide for themselves.
>
This was a beautiful illustration and I thank you for it. However, there is
one other gift which we can offer another person of equal value.
Our *undivided* attention.
Blessed Be
Debee
Date: 15 Sep 97 10:21:22
From: Sen Ashanka/AIS spa/IT <Sen_AshankaATnospamAIS01.ais.it>
To: Ron Harrow <RHarrowATnospampyrasol.com>
Cc: "'kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com'" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Risposta: Lessons
Message-Id: <9709150922.AA0584ATnospamAIS01.ais.it>
Content-Type: Text/Plain
Hello Ron,
The points you have raised are extremely valid and the most difficult
ones to handle in the light of a Lord of the Universe who is Just and
Merciful commanding Justice over everyone etc.
This confusion arises primarily because we think (or rather we all like
to think) in terms of the nice peaceful reality. The fact is reality is far
different from this.
To give a little background, consider fire. The same fire that burns
a little child to death is the same fire that cooks food for the hungry.
What do we say to fire, is it good or is it bad ? The same water that
helps grow food for mankind is the same mass or water that floods
and kills thousands. What do we say to this water ?
God is Infinite, and God is Love. This Love can however, manifest
itself is Infinite different ways. The same love that a man has for his
hungry child is what will drive him to break a house and steal money.
The same love the lion has for his cub will drive him to kill a little
helpless lamb for food.
Nature , and a human has got different characters. He also has got an
ego which is part of this ever changing non permanent nature. The
love for this ego is what gives rise to different emotions, anger, hatred
jealosy. It is all from the same source love. Like the seven colours of
the rainbow comes from the same white light.
So, while we like the good in life and hate the bad, we must always
realise that these are but two sides of the same coin. The same money
that makes a person happy will in time become a bondage to him and
make him egoistic and ultimately unhappy. (Pardon the use of the
use of third party as "him". Please read as him/her !)
Just as we must realise that dirt is nothing but matter in the wrong place,
we must realise that evil is nothing but love in the wrong place. Even
hatred to another arises out of love for the ego. Maybe this kind of
love is limited and wrongly channelised, but it is essentially the same.
True, that "good" people see and realise God easier than "bad" people,
but everyone, without exception everyone, will eventually see God. This
is the reason that the consciousness is given not one chance but several
chances to rectify mistakes and bad karmas. If a person dies just after
being born, what chance has that child to realise the good and bad ?? Is
it fair ? No. So it is after several lifetimes that the soul finally realises
its
Infinite Love and then frees itself from the bondage of the world.
This world is like the curled tail of the dog. You straighten it, leave it and
it curls up again. You keep doing it, and it keeps curling back. All the
governments in the world, all legislations, all the armies in the world,
all the king's horses and all the king's men, cannot, cannot wipe out
evil, though they have tried to do so for ages. They are still trying now,
without any success. Just read the news and see for yourself.
Similarly, all the evil in the world, cannot wipe out the good. They have
tried to do so, and not succeeded. All the concept of "Good will triumph
over Evil" is a fairy tale we heard during children and grown up with it.
It is because of this that we are distressed at the evil and wonder when
the Good will finally triumph. Remember, we cannot have Good without
Evil. We cannot have up without down. They will always remain. They
have always remained, and will continue to remain.............
So,
God is in the good
God is in the bad.
God is beyond the good and the bad.
God is in the best of saints.
God is in the worst of criminals
God is beyond saints and criminals.
God is in red
God is in blue
God is pure white light
Cheers and love to all
Ashanka
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:00:05
From: Nancy <NancyATnospammagiccity.com> (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: what is happening to us explained
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970915020005.2387dd4eATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear M,
Thanks for passing along this site. I thought it was informative. The 12
steps reminded me of Sue's recent 12-test e-mail. I would personally be
interested in any other informational spiritual sites that others are
aware of. I'm not sure if the list is the appropriate place to pass
these on, but I would appreciate a personal e-mail.
Thanks!
Nancy
M wrote:
>
> An earlier post from Ruth lead me to this site, and then I found this
> article. I thought it a great comfort as well as inspiring and informative.
>
> http://www.nitehawk.com/daydove/25metatr.html
>
> M
>
> I want more information from this source but have not been able to find any.
> If you know of any other writings by the Gilmores and Metatron, please post.
> The article is very complete, I'd just like an update or something.
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:27:33
From: acarre <acarreATnospamconcentric.net> (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: what is happening to us explained
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970915022733.2a57ef54ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Rick,
I'm new to this list, still in the process of a kundalini awakening...
And I'm french canadian, so sorry for my English in advance :)
You said:
> Still there is a part of me that seems to long for a new world
> religion....one that would unite us all and serve as a vehicle for
> spiritual progress....so i continue to read any new stuff that
> appears...still searching.
On thing is certain, this new world religion will come from the mass.
And as more and more people reach enlightenment it will become easier
for others to reach it. It's in the air...
> If i went there would i feel anything different? If i meditated there,
> would my meditation take on a different quality from meditating in my
> room?
Ever meditated near an old tree?, on a top off mountain? it's not the
same as meditating near a nuclear plant or under high voltage and
frequencies power lines. "Sacred" places, special place that help to
focus do exist. And the effect off group meditation is not to be under
estimated.
> When Metatron refers to the ships Athena and New Jerusalem.....is he
> talking about
> spaceships or something highly symbolic? Hope we're not moving towards
> Heaven's
> Gate here. Anybody know anything more about this?
You could make a search for "merkeba" meditation on the web
Antoine Carré
http://www.concentric.net/~acarre/
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:50:56
From: awp <awp.win-winATnospamsympatico.ca> (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: computer assitance request: on behalf of Grrrl Jonah
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970915105056.30d7757eATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi i'm the man in the forest.
Jonah is looking for her own space in the big city. I bought her a
computer, so she can now do work whenever she wants 2.
it is an old epson equity II + runs norton commander vers4.0, win 3.0
it has wp5.1.
i know very little about computers and Grrrl knows less.
any tips or anything would be helpful
i think i will take it to someone who could fix it up, so it runs ok.
thanks
man in the forest
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:47:44 +0100
From: Paul Fallon <pawlATnospamfirstnet.co.uk>
To: Kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: Charity - Give 'em a choice
Message-ID: <01BCC231.CD31A4A0ATnospamghost2.legend.co.uk>
-----Original Message-----
From: Debee [SMTP:hinhanATnospaminwave.com]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 1997 4:10 AM
To: Kundalini-l
Subject: Re: Charity - Give 'em a choice
At 01:04 AM 9/14/97 -0700, you wrote:
Debee wrote:
>I believe greatest gift we can ever offer anyone at any
>particular moment is neither 'what they want' nor
>'what we think they need more,' but rather A CHOICE,
>and the means to decide for themselves.
>
However, there is
one other gift which we can offer another person of equal value.
Our *undivided* attention.
Sorry for coming in late on this thread - I've been away. It's particularly interesting for me as charitable community development is my line of work. I'd agree with almost all the contributions so far. Here's my tuppence (2 cents) worth on some of the interrelated points raised:
1. The *teach a woman to fish* approach is, wherever appropriate, a fundamental principle of community development work. It probably seems obvious to all of us. However, as pointed out, this is not always appropriate as learning to fish can be made up of many stages of self-development. The will to fish must be owned by them.
2. The *keeping quiet sometimes* approach reminds me of my mentor's way of working. You would never guess how much he has achieved in conversation. But there's an inner wealth that comes over in his everyday dealings with people and, when a genuine need presents itself, he helps people to see how to move those metaphorical mountains.
3. The *Have choices - Enhance capacity to think* is the crux of it all. The most successful model we have is not to deliver on local needs. Instead it seems better to listen to other people who have an urge to address a problem or opportunity, hhelp them to set up a group, service their group and support their independent plans. It's amazing what a little faith in people can achieve. The power that is generated within an independent group of people making their own decisions and developing their own perspectives seems literally unstoppable. It is good to build on what is there.
4. Instinctively, my approach is to *Get alongside people* and listen. This is the *undivided attention* you refer to. Good listening and open questioning can help to get people to identify and clarify things all by themselves in a pretty natural way. Then what...? Please excuse the military terminology, but a flexible response is needed. There are plenty of techniques and experiences in the armoury and many ways to skin a cat.
Thanks for reading....
This is not the end: it is not even the beginning of the end. It is perhaps the end of the beginning.
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