1997/05/09 01:03
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #217
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 217
Today's Topics:
Re: Prozac and K
Re: a question for tom aston on enlightenment
Re: Unidentified subject!
Re: Prozac and K
Breath
Enlightenment
Re: Prozac and K
Manic-depression
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 19:10:08 -0700
From: Ken McFarland <kenmATnospamOREGON.UOREGON.EDU>
To: Tom Aston <yogi.tomATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, Paul Ellis <pauleATnospamsirius.com>
Subject: Re: Prozac and K
Message-id: <1.5.4.32.19970509021008.00687540ATnospamoregon.uoregon.edu>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:19 PM 5/8/97 +0100, Tom Aston wrote:
>but aren't there many people who have been badly damaged by dependency
>on prozac ?
Dear Tom,
Literally millions of people have been helped, many very dramatically by
Prozac. Very few people have side effects from Prozac. A small percentage do.
Prozac was the first of its class of drugs and its exact pharmacological
mechanisms are still not understood 100%.
The newer drugs of this class, Zoloft and Paxil, are much better understood
and have proven to be virtually free of serious side effects.
>isn't its portrayal as the wonder drug of the 80s and 90s rather
>misleading ?
Maybe not. The serotonin reuptake inhibitors are really marvelous for a lot
of people who would otherwise continue to suffer. They are particularly
effective for people who suffer from internalized shame - which includes
almost everyone.
>i'm no expert on this drug but i have read enough reports about "prozac
>survivors" in the USA to know it has a downside that can outweigh its
>ability to buy time to adjust to kundalini symptoms, for instance......
A few people have had serious side effects from Prozac but it is an incredibly
small percentage.
The horror stories make excellant drama for the ego.
>on another related note, saw a report yesterday on geriatric psychiatric
>medication - quite terrifying the widespread use of high levels of
>medication being used to sedate the elderly in hospitals and care homes
>simply to make them easier to manage or just knock them out altogether.
Valid concern. There are many real horror stories in this domain.
>in general, i would be wary of yielding to this chemicalisation of
>experience that fails to fit the linear and reductive concepts of
>"normality" and that attempts to sanitise experience that is inevitably
>raw and often unpalatable (whether or not kundalini is involved).
This is a great phrase: "the linear and reductive concepts of 'normality'."
My intellectualized narcissistic avoidance of shame script is really giving
rise to accelerated intestinal motility as a result of self-comparitive
driven envy and feelings of incompetency. I hope you feel better Tom. What
does it mean?
>These chemicals can also do damage to the nervous system and the brain
>functions that can be as bad as the symptoms they are intended to
>alleviate, although i don't know much about the downside of prozac on
>the nervous system.
I know of no valid evidence of same. Incredebly high overdoses of these
drugs are well tolerated unless taken in combination with counter-indicated
drugs.
>then there's simply the point that they numb symptoms rather than
>healing the underlying causes, so may actually postpone the healing
>process....
This is called numb-numb.
These drugs relieve depression. An individual cannot work on the underlying
causes when they are sleeping or in deep depression.
>even if this may mean a short-term onset of crisis that has to be dealt
>with at a deeper and more permanent level...
Depression is often not short term or crisis per se. Tom my e-mail based
psychological assesstment skills suggest to me that you are an energetic,
high metabolic rate, kind of guy. When things get out of whack for you, you
probably become very anxious, distressed, fearful? angry? but probably not
very depressed. When an individual gets stuck in depression it can be a
terrible downward spiral which has no "bootstraps."
>and while some people may still find mind drugs useful, i think in
>general these kind of cautionary points are not made clear by the
>medical profession and media when prescribing these drugs.
These are not "mind" drugs per se. The serotonin enhancing drugs simply
raise the threshold for incoming stimuli. Hence, intrusive, recurring,
negative throughts are temporarily reduced, thereby releasing the inhibitive
action of the neurobehavioral system that shuts down or depresses the
individual.
When the negative thoughts are strong enough, one can still ruminate and
become depressed. The drugs only give the person an enhanced opportunity for
transformation.
>indeed, sometimes a second drug will be used to manage the side effects
>of the first...and the second drug can have side effects too....so it
>just gets worse and worse....
You are right that drugs should not be used as an addictive escape from
reality. But often, they make it possible for people to begin dealing with
reality.
>"Free Our Minds" Tom
Hey You!
Yes you! - down there in the pit!
What's the matter with you people? Get a grip!
If you had any guts,
if you had any character,
if you wanted to be a valuable and lovable person,
like me, you would rise up out of your stupor and take the high road, like me.
Are you up there yelling down at me?
What's the matter with me? Well, I'm unloved and unlovable.
You are right.
Thank you for confirming what my parents, siblings, teachers, priests have
taught me.
I have no character.
I would like to join you, in your enlightenment,
but, when I think about it, I am not worthy.
I am not lovable.
-----------
Wow! that little diatribe really gave me a boost.
I guess I did come up out of the pit of depression after all.
Sincerely,
Ken, the free mind.
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 19:27:31 -0700
From: Ken McFarland <kenmATnospamOREGON.UOREGON.EDU>
To: Joseph Miller <joemillerATnospamhotmail.com>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, yogi.tomATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk,
eiregrayATnospamhotmail.com
Subject: Re: a question for tom aston on enlightenment
Message-id: <1.5.4.32.19970509022731.006a1a38ATnospamoregon.uoregon.edu>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:33 AM 5/8/97 -0700, Joseph Miller wrote:
>>where there is hatred, anger or prejudice and intolerance and
>>exclusive belief systems it is unlikely that there is enlightenment
>I wouldn't waste my time trying to get a kind word about the white race
from my
>Cherokee master. He doesn't hate them, he just sees no reason to have
anything
>to do with them and doesn't care if they like it or not.
Well, of course not, they are a waste of time to one who is enlightened.
Sincerely,
Ken, the free mind.
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 19:59:44 -0700
From: Ken McFarland <kenmATnospamOREGON.UOREGON.EDU>
To: bobATnospamakasha.net (bob crowder)
Cc: "'Kundalini-l'" <Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!
Message-id: <1.5.4.32.19970509025944.006af57cATnospamoregon.uoregon.edu>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:59 PM 5/8/97 +0100, bob crowder wrote:
>
>95. Look upon some object, then slowly withdraw your sight from it, then
slowly withdraw your thought from it. Then. Devotion frees.
Bob, what is the source of reference?
Ken, the inquiring mind.
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 19:55:21 -0700
From: Ken McFarland <kenmATnospamOREGON.UOREGON.EDU>
To: maeror <fsjra5ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
Cc: Ken McFarland <kenmATnospamOREGON.UOREGON.EDU>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Prozac and K
Message-id: <1.5.4.32.19970509025521.00684b58ATnospamoregon.uoregon.edu>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:30 PM 5/8/97 -0800, maeror (Jason) wrote:
>I might as well recommend Wellbutrin to those thinking of taking Prozac.
>It takes effect more quickly, but likewise wears off more quickly. I
>haven't heard any 'horror stories' about Wellbutrin yet.
>
>Has anyone else heard of the study that showed Wellbutrin being very
>helpful to smokers trying to kick the habit? Was a random effect that
>appeared, much to the surprise of the medical community.
Wellbutrin can be good for some folks.
It boosts dopamine. That's an upper!
When you get too much, it begins to feel like crank.
For some, nicotine, is a dopaminergic boost. For many others, it is a sedative.
Wellbutrin is hard on my stomach.
More importantly, the artificial boost of Wellbutrin or any other
dopaminergic drug is not all that pleasant.
Its got a real edge or raspiness to it.
It may feel better that the doldrums of ADD or depression or Narcolepsy or
??? but adds a lot of noise to the experience of reality.
If you can tolerate life without drugs, try ginkgo bilova.
Hey, wait a minute, this is an herb, not a drug!!
Sincerely,
Ken, the free mind.
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 00:23:11 +0100
From: bobATnospamakasha.net (bob crowder)
To: "'Kundalini-l'" <Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Breath
Message-ID: <01BC5C0F.2E070C90ATnospamBOB>
The e-mail of the following document did not post as I had anticipated. Sorry for any confusion. Attempted to break it apart so any system could load it quickly, that did not work well as the first section did not arrive first with the explanation.
So here it is again :
This is a translation done by Paul Reps maybe 30 years ago. I have enjoyed it many times and am passing it along to list members to ponder, enjoy, use, flame, and contemplate. Much is here and the sutras are a kernel work on prana with Spanda, Trika, Kundalini, siddha, and Kryia Yoga.
DEVI says:
0 Shiva, what is your reality?
What is this wonder-filled universe?
What constitutes seed?
Who centers the universal wheel? What is this life beyond form pervading forms?
How may we enter it fully, above space and time, names and descriptions? Let my doubts be cleared!
SHIVA REPLIES:
Devi, though already enlightened, has asked the foregoing questions so others through the universe might receive Shiva's instructions. Now follow Shiva's reply, giving the 112 ways.
1. Radiant one, this experience may dawn between two breaths. After breath comes in (down) and just before turning up (out)-the beneficence.
2. As breath turns from down to up, and again as breath curves from up to down through both these turns, realize.
3. Or, whenever inbreath and outbreath fuse, at this instant touch the energyless energy-filled center.
4. Or, when breath is all out (up) and stopped of itself, or all in (down) and stopped-in such universal pause, one's small self -vanishes. This is difficult only for the impure.
5. Consider your essence as light rays rising from center to center up the vertebrae, and so rises livingness in you.
6. Or in the spaces between, feel this as lightning.
7. Devi, imagine the Sanskrit letters in these boney-filled foci of awareness, first as letters, then more subtly as sounds, then as most subtle feeling. Then, leaving them aside, be free.
8. Attention between eyebrows, let mind be before thought. Let form fill with breath-essence to the top of the head, and there shower as light.
9. Or, imagine the five-colored circles of the peacock tail to be your five senses in illimitable space. Now let their beauty melt within. Similarly, at any point in space or on a wall-until the point dissolves. Then your wish for another comes true.
10. Eyes closed, see your inner being in detail. Thus see your true nature.
11. Place your whole attention in the nerve, delicate as the lotus thread, in the center of your spinal column- In such be transformed.
12. Closing the seven openings of the head with your hands, a space between your eyes becomes all-inclusive.
13. Touching eyeballs as a feather, lightness between them open's into heart and there permeates the cosmos.
14. Bathe in the center of sound, as in the continuous sound of a waterfall. Or, by putting fingers in ears, hear the sound of sounds.
15. Intone a sound, as a-u-m, slowly. As sound enters soundfulness, so do you.
16. In the beginning and gradual refinement of the sound of any letter, awake.
17. While listening to stringed instruments, hear their composite central sound; thus omnipresence.
18. Intone a sound audibly, then less and less audibly as feeling deepens into this silent harmony.
19. Imagine spirit simultaneously within and around you until the entire universe spiritualizes.
20. Kind Devi, enter etheric presence pervading far above and below your form.
21. Put mindstuff in such inexpressible fineness above, below, and in your heart.
22. Consider any area of your present form as limitlessly
23. Feel your substance, bones, flesh, blood, saturated with cosmic essence.
24. Suppose your passive form to be an empty room with walls of side-empty.
25. Blessed one, as senses are absorbed in heart, reach the center of the lotus.
26. Unminding mind, keep in the middle-until.
27. When In worldly activity, keep attentive between the two breaths, and so practicing, in a few days be born anew. Lakshmanjoo says this is his favorite.
28. Focus on fire rising through your form from the toes up until the body burns to ashes but not you.
29. Meditate on the make-believe world as burning to ashes, and become being above human.
30. Feel the fine qualities of creativity permeating your breasts and assuming delicate configurations.
31. With intangible breath in center of forehead, as this reaches heart at the moment of sleep, have direction over dreams and over death itself.
32. As, subjectively, letters flow into words and words into sentences, and as, objectively, circles flow into worlds and worlds into principles, find at last these converging in our being.
33. Gracious one, play the universe is an empty shell wherein your mind frolics infinitely.
34. Look upon a bowl without seeing the sides or the material. In a few moments become aware.
35. Abide in some place endlessly spacious, clear of trees, hills, habitations. Thence comes the end of mind pressures.
36. Sweet-hearted one, meditate on knowing and not knowing, existing and not existing. Then leave both aside that you may be.
37. Look lovingly on some object. Do not go on to another object. Here, in the middle of this object-the blessing.
38. Feel cosmos as translucent ever living presence.
39. With utmost devotion, center on the two junctions of breath and know the knower.
40. Consider the plenum to be your own body of bliss.
41. While being caressed, sweet princess, enter the caressing as everlasting life.
42. Stop the doors of senses when feeling the creeping of an ant. Then.
43. At the start of sexual union, keep attentive on the fire in the beginning, and, so continuing, avoid the embers in the end.
44. When in such embrace your senses are shaken as leaves, enter this shaking.
45. Even remembering union, without the embrace, the transformation.
46. On joyously seeing a long-absent friend, permeate this joy.
47. When eating or drinking, become the taste of the food or drink, and be filled.
48. 0h lotus-eyed one, sweet of touch, when singing, seeing, tasting, be aware you are and discover the ever-living.
49. Wherever satisfaction is found, in whatever act, actualize this.
50. At the point of sleep when sleep has not yet come and external wakefulness vanishes, at this point being is revealed. [Lakshmanjoo says this is another of his favorites.]
51. In summer when you see the entire sky endlessly clear, enter such clarity.
52. Lie down as dead. Enraged in wrath, stay so. Or stare without moving an eyelash. Or suck something and become the sucking.
53. Without support for feet or hands, sit only on buttocks. Suddenly, the centering.
54. In an easy position, gradually pervade an area between the armpits into great peace.
55. See as if for the first time a beauteous person or an ordinary object.
56. With mouth slightly open, keep mind in the middle of tongue. Or, as breath comes silently in, feel the sound HH.
57. When on a bed or a seat, let yourself become weightless, beyond mind.
58. In a moving vehicle, by rhythmically swaying, experience. Or in a still vehicle, by letting yourself swing in slowing invisible circles.
59. Simply by looking into the blue sky beyond clouds, the serenity.
60. Shakti, see all space as if already absorbed in your own head in the brilliance.
61. Waking, sleeping, dreaming, know you as light.
62. In rain during a black night, enter that blackness as the form of forms.
63. When a moonless raining night is not present, close eyes and find blackness before you Opening eyes, see blackness. So faults disappear forever.
64. just as you have the impulse to do something, stop.
65. Center on the sound a-u-m without any a or m
66. Silently intone a word ending in AH. 'Men in the HH effortlessly, the spontaneity.
67. Feel yourself as pervading all directions, far, near.
68. Pierce some part of your nectar-filled form with a pin, and gently enter the piercing.
69. Feel: My thoughty, I-ness, internal organs-me.
70. Illusions deceive. Colors circumscribe. Even divisibles are indivisible.
71. When some desire comes, consider it. Then, suddenly, quit it.
72. Before desire and before knowing, how can I say I am? Consider. Dissolve in the beauty.
73. With your entire consciousness in the very start of desire, of knowing, know.
74. 0 Shakti, each particular perception is limited, disappearing in omnipotence.
75. In truth forms are inseparate. Inseparate are omnipresent being and your own form. Realize each as made of Us consciousness.
76. In moods of extreme desire, be undisturbed.
77. This so-called universe appears as a juggling, a picture show. To be happy look upon it so.
78. 0 Beloved, put attention neither on pleasure or pain but between these.
79. Toss attachment for body aside, realizing I am everywhere. One who is everywhere is joyous.
8o. Objects and desires exist in me as in others. So accepting, let them be translated,(surrendered)
81. The appreciation of objects and subjects is the same for an enlightened as for an unenlightened person. The former has one greatness: he
remains in the subjective mood, not lost in things.
82. Feel the consciousness of each person as your own consciousness. So, leaving aside concern for self, become each being.
83. Thinking no thing, will limited-self unlimit.
84. Believe omniscient, omnipotent, pervading.
85. As waves come with water and flames with fire, so the universal waves with us.
86. Roam about until exhausted and then, drop-ping to the ground, in this dropping be whole.
87. Suppose you are gradually being deprived of strength or of knowledge. At the instant of deprivation, transcend.
88. Listen while the ultimate mystical teaching Is imparted: Eyes still without winking, at once be come absolutely free.
89. Stopping ears by pressing and rectum by contracting, enter the sound of sound.
90. go. At the edge of a deep well look steadily into its depths until-the wondrousness.
91. Wherever your mind is wandering, internally or externally, at this very place, this.
92. When vividly aware through some particular sense, keep in the awareness.
93. At the start of sneezing, during fright, in anxiety, above a chasm, flying in battle, in extreme curiosity, at the beginning of hunger, at the end of hunger, be uninterruptedly aware.
94. Let attention be at a place where you are seeing some past happening, and even your form, having lost its present characteristics, is transformed.
95. Look upon some object, then slowly withdraw your sight from it, then slowly withdraw your thought from it. Then. Devotion frees.
97. Feel an object before you. Feel the absence of all other objects but this one. Then, leaving aside the object-feeling and the absence-feeling, realize.
98. The purity of other teachings is as impurity to us. In reality know nothing as pure or impure.
99. This consciousness exists as each being, and nothing else exists..
100. Be the unsame same to friend as to stranger, in honor and dishonor.
101. When a mood against someone or for some one arises, do not place it on the person in question, but remain centered.
102. Suppose you contemplate something beyond perception, beyond grasping, beyond not being, you.
103. Enter space, supportless, eternal, still.
104. Wherever your attention alights, at this very point, experience.
105. Enter the sound of your name and, through this sound, all sounds.
l06. I am existing. This is mine. This is this. 0 Beloved, even in such know illimitably.
107. This consciousness is the spirit of guidance of each one. Be this one.
108. Here is a sphere of change, change, change. Through change consume change.
109. As a hen mothers her chicks, mother particular knowings, particular doings, in reality.
110. Since, in truth, bondage and freedom are relative, these words are only for those terrified with the universe. This universe is a reflection of minds. As you see many suns in water from one sun, so see bondage and liberation.
111. Each thing is perceived through knowing. The self shines in space through knowing. Perceive one being as knower and known.
112. Beloved, at this moment let mind, knowing, breath, form, be included.
Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 01:27:11 -0400
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Enlightenment
Message-ID: <3372B5AF.7378ATnospammail.snet.net>
We are already enlightened!
Most of us, most of the time just don't know it.
Enlightenment is remembering who we are. Extensions
of the one universal self.
We can't really change our true identity.
Though it seems we like to think we can.
So meanwhile, while we forget who we are, our
real-self remains intact and fully enlightened,
self-aware, beyond the grasp of time!
Mystics and prophets who get the label of being enlightened
are just really very good at remembering and experiencing
their true holy identity consistently.
From moment to moment.
Intend to remember!
Peace.
David.
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 22:43:29
From: ori^ <oriATnospameskimo.com>
To: Kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Prozac and K
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970508224329.114f4c72ATnospammail.eskimo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tom wrote:
>then there's simply the point that they numb symptoms rather than
>healing the underlying causes, so may actually postpone the healing
>process....
NO, NO, NO
Anti-depressants are not used to numb symptoms.
The way I see it, anti-depressants provide a platform to stand
on while struggling to find the way to shore. When one needs
to heal the deep underlying causes, there can be a need for
some kind of support to prevent one from drowning.
While it may be the case that some people take anti-depressants
without delving into the deep work needed to heal, I suppose
that is a personal choice, but is not the case for all.
I smoked pot for years as a medication, and then when I got ready
to do the deep work, I gave up pot, and upon entering into a
severe depression received anti-depressants... and if it were not
for the medication who knows if I'd still be alive.
It was only after opening to the deep inner work and actually
concurrent with some of it that I began to experience what
might be called kundalini. Had I stayed stuck in my vicious
cycle of self-medication with the pot I fully believe I would
not have had as major of an opening as I've had.
I also feel that in some cases there can truly be a chemical
imbalance and that it takes something to rebalance the chemicals.
I would like to believe that eventually there might be a way
to tell my brain to create and balance its own chemicals, but
until that time I choose to use the medications as tools.
Lastly, I think that in that way-- medication as tools-- we can
move forward with the life we choose to live. Through the use
of prozac my life has become much more balanced and has allowed
me further exploration of the energies than if I were not to
take it. I do believe that prozac and kundalini can coexist
happily, and I would hope that eventually my brain chemicals
may become balanced just from the energy alone.
We don't tell diabetics not to take insulin.
In light,
ori^
******
* ori^ *
* mailto: oriATnospameskimo.com *
* http://www.eskimo.com/~ori/ori.html *
******
Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 00:12:26 -0700
From: Morgana Wyze <morganaATnospambest.com>
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Manic-depression
Message-ID: <3372CE5A.1657ATnospambest.com>
Anyone know of any natural methods to balance out manic depression ??
My husband uses pot and alcohol, and I can see that this does not work
and never has for him. He's beginning to see it, too.
His is severe enough, but the prescription drugs numb him to life and
drive him mad with supressed energy of K. He will not take them. He's
pretty functional, but we're both getting tired of the roller coaster
ride of his mood swings. He's not responsive to energy work- probably
from 20 years of toxins from alcohol and pot.
Damiana worked for a while, he really craved it. Then valerian root.
St. John's had no affect. What is gingko bilova, might that help?
Morgana
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