1997/04/20 11:27
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #180
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 180
Today's Topics:
AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Re: Notes from the lurker underground
Mandalas...Crop circles.
Re: Fire Child--first step
Seeking detachment....
Re: dead snake
re: Notes from the lurker underground
computers
Well marked insults for lobster
Detachment
Re: Tantric Kundalini - i bend with the shakti on sex...
Re: Notes from the lurker underground
Re: Notes from the lurker underground
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 22:19:08 -1000 (HST)
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospammail.snet.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id: <199704200819.WAA04884ATnospamhaleakala.aloha.net>
I've received some kind words from K-list members.
These have been sent directly to my E-mail; which is fine.
I'd just point out that I'm enlisted and use the Autopost because for
some reason, postings from my E-mail do not get posted.
In the meantime those interested in a wonderful synthesis of Vedantic
insight and modern quantum physics might want to try
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/1137/index.html
David
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 08:23:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: DChern1123ATnospamaol.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Notes from the lurker underground
Message-ID: <970420082306_-1569173446ATnospamemout20.mail.aol.com>
Eric, What book?
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:01:19
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Mandalas...Crop circles.
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970419090119.35672446ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Someone was takling about Mandalas to meditate on...I like to meditate on
crop circles.. There is a beautifil one at
http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/1996/kennett96.html
Blessings, Angelique.
Mystress Angelique Serpent,
Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
*******************
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils.
-- Hector Louis Berlioz
Sure, it's going to kill a lot of people, but they may be dying of
something else anyway. -- Othal Brand, member of a Texas pesticide
review board
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 06:39:29 -0700
From: J Flarity <joeATnospamflarity.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Fire Child--first step
Message-ID: <335A1C91.4C41ATnospamflarity.com>
Gorgeous poetry and it exemplifies the paper thin barrier between the
real and the greater reality. Depak Chora says:
A person desperately looking for love is like a fish desperately looking
for water.
If he were a poet, he may have matched your dimensions, David. The
longest journey starts with the first step. That step usually involves
some method of seeing past the normal physical reality that many of us
see as the only reality. Is it important if that first step be madness,
drugs, or kundalini?
>
So, now what of the SECOND STEP. What a topic for discussion. And a
lobster on the beach is much easier to examine.
> Fire child.
> Lost in a cold world.
> Searching for a spark.
>
> You're,
> Drowning in thirst.
> Down by the river.
>
> You're
> Born of the Sun.
> Yet you shake and you shiver.
>
> Children of the Sun.
> Playing in the rain.
> Thought it could be fun.
> To be insane.
>
> The puzzle never fits,
> The first try.
>
> Flowerchild.
>
> Blooming.
>
> You are the Artist,
> Painting what You see.
>
> And
> The world...
>
> Is Your tapestry.
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:31:02
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Seeking detachment....
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970419103102.35679760ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On my browser I have a collection of all the oddest newsgroups I can
find, and I surf them sometimes at random late at night, never posting but
voyeuristically peeking in on their worlds. Hey, everybody needs a hobby...
This post struck me as very profound..so much so that I copied it to my
outbox, for no reason, AND NOW, I offer it as a strange counterpoint melody
to the thread between Tom and Lobster on detachment. It seems to agree with
both of you, at once...
I often wondered about the goal of detachment would look like if realized
fully while embodied....a long post, but worth it I promise, and not nearly
so dark as you might guess from the title...
***********
>Date:
> Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:29:15 GMT
> From:
> SMD <possumATnospamiglou.com>
> Newsgroups:
> alt.suicide.holiday
>
>
>A long, neurotic, narcissistic whine.
>
>As far back as I can remember I wanted to die. I can't remember a time
>when I wasn't sure I would kill myself eventually, and I can't remember a
>time when being awake didn't hurt. But there were some other things I
>wanted to do, too, other things that mattered to me. And being a little
>too analytical about my life, I sort of ordered my priorities and decided
>what I wanted to do. I'd do the other things that I wanted, then kill
>myself.
>
>Several years ago I set myself a few little goals. Things I thought I
>wanted to do before I died. Nothing earth-shaking or unusual, and mostly
>based in contrariness and spite, but things that would take a few years to
>get done. I used suicide as my motivation. Just a little longer, just
>finish this, and then you can stop it all. Over and over. Just a
>little while longer, just a little more to do. When it got to be obvious
>that I was going to finish the things I wanted done, I decided that I
>should start getting what life I had in order so that eventually I would
>be able to kill myself.
>
>I always worried about the people I would leave behind if I killed myself.
>Figured that would hurt them, and I prefer not to hurt people if I can help
>it. So I began, gradually, to distance myself from them. When it couldn't
>be done gradually, I had huge explosive fights and got rid of them that
>way. That may have hurt them too, but I figured it hurt less to do that
>than to let them maintain whatever affection they had for me, then go off
>and die on them. There weren't that many, anyway, I've never been a social
>person and never liked having lots of people around. There were a few who
>couldn't be removed that way, of course; my parents and one or two
>friends. But as I rid myself of my old attachments I didn't let any new
>ones form. Not much effort in that, of course. I didn't even let myself
>get any pets, because then I would have my responsibility to them holding
>me back. Animals understand even less than people; I don't think dogs ever
>quite grasp that their owners will never be coming back and the idea of
>some poor animal watching for me for the rest of its life horrified me.
>
>Since I thought I'd already made plans for what I'd do when my few little
>goals were reached, I made no alternate plans for what I'd do afterwards.
>And I stripped away everything of my life that I could, till I was as
>close to dead as you can get and still show up for work in the morning. No
>hobbies. No interests. No attempts to look for a decent job, since I
>wouldn't be needing one. No nothing. Tried not to buy anything if I could
>help it, because there'd be enough debts left behind me as it was.
>
>Eventually, I managed to make a habit of doing nothing, thinking nothing,
>wanting nothing. Didn't leave my apartment when I could help it, didn't
>watch TV (never really did that, anyway) or even read much. Didn't speak
>to anyone at all when I could keep from it, and usually I could.
>
>The odd thing is that I seem to have taken away whatever part of me really
>hurt. And not wanting anything, not wanting to do anything, turned into
>not even wanting to die anymore. Wouldn't mind it. Can't be bothered to go
>to the effort involved in buying a gun and blowing my head off, though.
>The effort involved in staying alive is probably more in the long run, but
>never too much at one time.
>
>Can't complain about not hurting anymore, of course, that's a relief. But
>now I have no idea what to do. People do things because there are other
>things they want. They talk to people because they want company; they go
>to classes because they want to learn something (ideally) or because they
>have to if they want to graduate; they graduate because they want to get a
>better job than they might be able to otherwise; and they want a job so
>they can buy things to make themselves more comfortable or to keep
>themselves amused and occupied.
>
>And now I don't want anything. I prefer to keep comfortable, physically,
>but that doesn't take much. I don't care enough to kill myself, and I know
>I'm entirely burnt out. I feel like a racehorse that's broken down on the
>track; they tend to try to get up and keep running, because it's the only
>way they know to deal with anything, it's all they can do. But it's not
>going to help, and there's not usually anything that will. And I keep
>trying to do the same things that I've always done, but I can't,
>really. Or not very well. It's hard to make yourself do anything useful
>when it honestly doesn't matter much anymore.
>
>Doesn't matter much, not doesn't matter at all. There's still enough
>concern to keep a vague sense of obligation, a vague guilt that I ought to
>want things, I ought to do things, I ought to care more. And so I care
>just enough to keep making halfhearted attempts at various things that I
>don't really want to do. I can't make myself try with the promise that
>I'll kill myself as soon as I do this, as soon as I've finished that. And
>so there's almost no motivation at all left.
>
>Then again, my eighty-year-old great-aunt has a theory for what's
>generally wrong with me (and the rest of the family, too). At dinner one
>day she looked at my father and announced "Your grandfather was lazy, your
>father was lazy, you're lazy and it looks like your daughter is lazy, too.
>I'm the only one in this family who was ever willing to work at anything."
>
>
**************
( ...In case you are wondering, no, I'm not suicidal, I contemplated
suicide seriously for perhaps 30 seconds once as a child, looking for the
ultimate way to get revenge on my Mom. 30 seconds is all it took before the
sheer idiocy of the idea snapped me right out of my anger. Perhaps why
suicide mystifies me so much...suicidal people are alien to me. A trip to
alt.suicide.holidays is like a trip to mars...people plotting their own
demise, discussing methods and dates, and antidepressents, ocassionally
news of success somewhere has an oddly cheering effect on the group. And
then there is the emotions of the the to feel...send light back.)
Blessings of hope, Mystress.
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:48:39 +0200
From: Tobias Ussing <tobiasATnospamcybernet.dk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: dead snake
Message-Id: <15483939031584ATnospamcybernet.dk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
About snakes,
many years ago I was bitten by a snake in India. I thought I was going to
die, and was in the hospital for many days. The bite was in the left fod.
About two months later my kundalini started, and it has been very hard. I
think the way it starts may be significant, any comments?
light, light, light
Helga
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:58:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: re: Notes from the lurker underground
Message-Id: <199704201558.KAA28746ATnospamdfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com>
Thanks very much for your post, Eric. I, myself, frequently give up on
questions like "is it kundalini or is it 'just'(!) because I am working
hard?" The source of all has gotta be divine, huh? The one that
tripped me up for years till I got rid of it was "is it spiritual or
'only' psychological." I find that all that energetic cogitation I'm
so fond of is better dropped. Then maybe the next morning in the
shower I'll really start to understand something! Holly
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:00:35 +0200
From: Tobias Ussing <tobiasATnospamcybernet.dk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: computers
Message-Id: <16003592131710ATnospamcybernet.dk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I´ve studied the cases of kundalites who interferes with computers and the
like, we have had the same stories over here, it´s good to share. Anyway,
even though I´m very fond of this my new computer and all it´s
possibilities, including international communications, it´s hard for me
sometimes. I start to feel bad the moment I open it, or maybe after ½ hour,
or maybe not at all.
Anyone with similar experiences? and what to do?
hejsa
Helga
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 09:09:25 -0700
From: J Flarity <joeATnospamflarity.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Well marked insults for lobster
Message-ID: <335A3FB5.7760ATnospamflarity.com>
Dear lobster,
My patience has been rewarded. The enigmatic cloak of the fictional
crustacean is shed for this moment. And that serpent you had claimed
was 'dead' does live. (We knew it all along anyway.)
The living koan becomes a human again. The lobster was not content to
wait for the refuse of Dan G but grew wings and flew into the sun before
his wax wound melt and he would fall on our heads.
My gracious thanks. But, you do understand that I have to kill you now
that your position is well marked. But I promise to eat you with love
and tenderness. For as one of my steers (Blacky) related yesterday,
"What would be my purpose, if I was not to be eaten." So even the
animals ask themselves the ultimate question and make me kneel in
humility on behalf of my arrogant kin.
E Jason wrote:
>
> A body ecstasy can be induced by various techniques: chanting, body
> movement, fasting, hormonal and chemical imbalance, etc. If you just want
> that then become a K junky but do not call drug addiction spiritual.
> Drugs may produce insights and psychological growth but there are
> inherent dangers of over use (what we might call abuse?) and movements
> to extremes of mood and psychological imbalance.
Here in Washington State, my indulgence of real Texas Chili is
considered by many to be abuse. I cringe at the rites in Native
American culture which have lasted thousands of years. I would leave
such classifications of 'abuse' to experts such as yourself. Remember
it is a burden you have asked for.
>An example of irrationality is being defensive when not actually being personally
> attacked.
By this example, I would estimate that the majority of the world is
irrational. Perhaps those who are not naturally defensive be labeled
'insane'.
>
> If we feel good we assume this is spiritual. People used to blame
> stomach ache on demons. When people are crazy (crazy is out of touch
> with ourselves and others - been there - done that - I judge myself also
> - I still consider myself very much out of balance)
This must be the 'short' definition of crazy. It would also apply to a
large percentage of the US culture. Particularly those 100 million or
so glued to the TV set each night. Isn't 'crazy' really defined as any
obtrusive nail which pops out of the mainstream with a radical operating
method. If ML King and Gandhi had lived in the USSR in 1960, they would
probably have been committed to asylums. 'Crazy' to me represents
anyone with a very different reality. It could be a reality which leads
to expansion or one which leads to contraction.
IMPORTANT POINT. Most of us would say that contraction is 'bad.' But
it is very difficult to stay contracted for long. I believe Morgana
gave us an aura exercise which involved contracting and expanding the
aura. Contractions of the more normal variety have an even more
powerful effect and ultimately, the same result. But there is always
that time issue.
> they ascribe strange
> definitions to their experiences. Not everything you like is good for
> you and not everything unpleasant has no purpose.
Kindly point to anything with no purpose and I will most definitely
avoid it.
> How on earth is the body of light workers
> that change the consciousness of the world going to be achieved by the
> incompetent?
Labels? I am so glad that my incompetence and the safety of our world
rests in the hands of those with the skill to execute the well laid
plans. My spirit has much delight at the construction of your tower.
Please let me know when it is finished so that I can cease howling.
>
> If you are out of touch with ordinary people and your family - it is not
> because you are better or special - it is because you are unwell, you
> are not at ease. Genuine spirituality makes you more empathic and more
> in tune and a part of your environment. Every psychic power or ability
> that differentiates you from others is a severe handicap - it is
> alienating you from humanity. Again the genuine spiritual gift is almost
> invisible and natural.
Howl Howl Howl
The families of Buddha, Jesus and even Tolstoy would agree with you.
These were obviously very wounded people who needed much healing. Let
us pray that we do not shirk our families in such manner.
"Every psychic power a handicap"? Did you ever wonder how primitive
peoples was able to find and populate the many remote islands of the
vast Pacific? You make this too easy lobster. May I reword this
sentence to say, "I find psychic abilities not conducive to my
spiritual development." And "For me, true spirit is a closer
connection to important people in my life."
>
> If you are weird and would
> rather exalt that than admit and attempt to return to some kind of
> normality then what are you running away from - yes yourself? So what
> kind of spiritual path is it that runs away from reality?
I am silent, I am empty, I am still
I let the river carry me onward to the sea
I offer no resistance to those swimming up the river
I offer no resistance to those swimming to the land
I smile at those standing on the bank
We are all together
There was never a time when this was not so
I am sure that your concept of reality is valid for at least (1) earth
form in that moment it was conceived?
> So to the "free spirit" needs taming so that the
> freedom can be transmitted to those less fortunate.
I offer no resistance to your taming lobster. Please do not be
frightened of my laughter.
smiling,
joe
>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:25:36 -0400
From: imtgATnospamjuno.com (tg xxx)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Detachment
Message-ID: <19970420.132536.4774.16.imtgATnospamjuno.com>
Angelique & Fellow K-ites......
Thank you for sharing the posting from the other list on detachment. It
really hit home. Not that I was suicidal, but maybe, my past feelings of
*emptiness* came from wanting only to go (back) to the light, and my
idiocy way of thinking thought that by detaching myself from everything
and everyone, the next time, I would be able to stay in the light. Ha!
I want to live! And by living, I don't mean living in the sense of not
dying. I want to live life to the fullest! The light is already here
and it is through living (whether dead or not). After much contemplation
on detachment, I have come to believe IMHO that the detachment is not
detaching yourself to people and things of this world, but to the outcome
of what one does, or what someone else does, or what this or that
'thing' may bring to your life.
As I believe it was Lobster who said that we are (partly) emotional
beings. Why deny those emotions in us? The emotions are us. If I'm
angry, be angry. If I'm sad, be sad, blah blah blah. Be in the moment
with your emotions and then let it go and do whatever it is that needs to
be done. If we are to deny these feelings, you cannot get a clear view
of things - you can not know what to do. If we allow our feelings to
surface and then 'let them go', wonderful things begin to happen. For
instance:
My ex-husband went into a coma Wed. & died Thursday as a result of
cancer. We were very close, as we were married 23 years, have 3
beautiful children together (27-24-13 yrs old), and have remained best
friends thru it all. Altho we were divorced in 92, we continued to
spend holidays, birthdays, weekends etc. together as a family unit. We
loved each other dearly, but just had a hard time 'living' together. LOL
(can't live with him-can't live without him).
Chaos occurred when his mom made all the funeral arrangements, which
included having the funeral before our daughter arrived in from Hawaii
and was unable to get her plane rescheduled. The mom refused to change
the funeral time as "it will be an inconvenience to many other people."
At that point, I was furious! I allowed myself to be angry, and then I
calmed myself so I could take care of business in a peaceful state of
mind. The clarity of it all was wonderful! I knew what to do. I
marched myself down to the funeral home and took over my legal rights as
guardian of my 13 year old, and on behalf of the children. (the children
are to have legal authority over the 'body' over the mother). I changed
the date until the next day (I was unable to have it the same day and
just put it off for a few hours until Penny arrived). Called all the
people that would be inconvenienced (LOL) with no problems. EXCEPT,
bless their hearts, his mother & sister who are having a complete hissy
fit. I knew it had nothing to do with them, altho they saw it as an
attack. And so they attacked. Viciously. I could see so clearly and
was sooo at peace, even thru the attacks, that all I could do was agree
with them and understand but continue to do what I had to do. In the
face of being cussed out and called every name, I remained at peace! Not
only externally, but internally too. I certainly couldn't have done that
years ago when I hung onto anger and felt I had to defend myself. There
is nothing to defend. When I was called a 'bitch', I could honestly say
'thank you' (it's about time I stood up for myself and my children and
became a bitch). And altho it is very *chaotic* these past couple of
days (from the world's point of view), it really isn't. WOW.
The real miracle of all this is that I was being treated as 'the other
woman' because we didn't have that piece of paper saying we were married
anymore. I had no say so in anything. It was made clear to me from his
mom that I would have nothing to do with the funeral. I remember a
couple of nights ago, praying and saying, 'you know God, this just
doesn't feel right and I don't know how to correct it, so I'm giving it
to you.' The next day the shift occurred and the *shit* hit the fan.
The shit, from some people's point of view, was the fertilizer in my
point of view. The children and myself, as my younger son's guardian,
are now in complete control of it all.
Sorry to ramble, but I thank you for listening or deleting.
Love,
xxxtg
"One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly
making exciting discoveries!"
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgshome.html <~~~~ on the web now!
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 09:35:00
From: Ed Johnson <orangeATnospamislandnet.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Tantric Kundalini - i bend with the shakti on sex...
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970420093500.0817a3c6ATnospamislandnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 13:43 19/04/97 +0100, Tom Aston wrote:
>just don't necessarily think the guru is always clad in robes and
>sitting in lotus.....
>
>it could be a few words, a book, an experience, a kiss, a glance...
A few days after reading this, Tom, it came back to me. A definition
of a guru that matches my suspicions too.
Tom adds:
>but she [shakti] don't like anything too formal or fixed so stay fluid,
>foundations and houses and spiral [spiritual ?] paths do not help much and can become a hindrance or even a liability..
I have always felt an inner resistance (some might say laziness!) to study
any of the 'esoterics' because I felt the language used to describe the
processes alienating to the common experience. And to a degree this
is how I feel when people on this list use terms I don't fully understand,
most of your yogi terms (and Phil's for that matter!)for example. Can all of these terms (like manipura, anahata for example) be explained in plain english, or is our language insufficient or long-winded?
Tom further adds:
>yep, but there is surely a dilemma for the mystic in communicating his
>or her experience to others who have no reference points here
Is this ego talking? The zen folks have a saying too (possibly
paraphrased): Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water; after
enlightenment chop wood, carry water. Communication does not have
to be verbal. You are who you are (insert proper yogi word here :)).
Mind you, when I had to explain myself to my parents many years back,
it was quite an experience to have to verbalize my new feelings of
inner worth and direction, comprehension of spirituality and all, but
in the end, all my Dad could say was, "But you've changed!". My retort
was, "Well, you're darn right I changed!". Perhaps the years have erased
his fears of my impending mental illness in a way that conversation
or argument could not have.
Letting the ego wars pass by this time,
ed.
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:59:37 -0700
From: Eric Kieselhorst <redATnospamearthlink.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Notes from the lurker underground
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970420105937.006d6aa4ATnospamearthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
DChern1123ATnospamaol.com wrote:
>Eric, What book?
>
Despite my reservations about telling people what book it
was, here's the info I have:
"Kundalini and the Chakras: A Practical Manual - Evolution
in this Lifetime" by Genevieve Paulson
Just remember folks, when someone tells you a hammer is great
for pounding nails, but also to be careful not to hit yourself on the
foot with it, you might want to heed that advice. The method I choose -
hitting myself in both feet just to confirm what the author described -
was not terribly bright. But I suppose we all learn in our own peculiar,
if not painful, ways.
Best wishes,
eric
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 09:57:36
From: Ed Johnson <orangeATnospamislandnet.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Notes from the lurker underground
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970420095736.2ba75b62ATnospamislandnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:59 20/04/97 -0700, you wrote:
>DChern1123ATnospamaol.com wrote:
>
>>Eric, What book?
>>
>
>Despite my reservations about telling people what book it
>was, here's the info I have:
>
> "Kundalini and the Chakras: A Practical Manual - Evolution
> in this Lifetime" by Genevieve Paulson
>
>Just remember folks, when someone tells you a hammer is great
>for pounding nails, but also to be careful not to hit yourself on the
>foot with it, you might want to heed that advice. The method I choose -
>hitting myself in both feet just to confirm what the author described -
>was not terribly bright. But I suppose we all learn in our own peculiar,
>if not painful, ways.
>
>Best wishes,
>eric
Gee, that name sounds familiar...Yep, I've got that book too. And yep,
I went to the back of the book, saw the warning and said, finally, getting
to the good stuff! But alas (or fortunately now perhaps), a brief
dabble in the exercises produced nothing observable. Darn, whasthematter?
Can't believe in it enough? Serpent already flew the coup?
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