1997/04/07 15:59
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #151
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 151
Today's Topics:
RE: Still confused - was Re: Ecstasy and Pleasure
RE: Still confused - was Re: Ecstasy/Sorcery
RE: Still confused - was Re: Ecstasy/Sorcery -Reply
K-list Fool! ha!
Dimensional sounds
Unnaceptable Questions/and answers
Dan G., wherefore art thou?
Re: Welcome lurker Diva Leigh
RE: Still confused - was Re: Ecstasy and Pleasure
Whitley Strieber's SECRET SCHOOL.
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 22:14:53 +0200
From: Jason <zymphtATnospambluewin.ch>
To: "'Peggy Freeman'" <pfreemanATnospamstanford.edu>,
"'Kundalini'"
<kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: RE: Still confused - was Re: Ecstasy and Pleasure
Message-ID: <01BC43A1.287B5BE0ATnospamlss16pub178.bluewin.ch>
<beginsnip: Peggy>
At 7:50 AM -0800 4/7/97, ori^ wrote:
>Dear Joe F. and fellow list members,
>You wrote about the distinction between pleasure and ecstasy which I
>think is rarely made in day-to-day living, but is oh-so-important in
>reaching the wholeness of who we are. I have experienced a vast
>difference between pleasure and ecstasy. Worlds apart, and yet often
>flattened into one thing.
>
>Generally I think of pleasure as something the body likes.
>One meaning of pleasure in the dictionary is: sensual gratification.
>This tends to keep alive the idea that physical reality is the only real
>thing; the body is all, long live the body.
>
>Ecstasy-- ek stasis-- outside of time... to step into the eternal now.
>To experience the unity of soul in the time that is no time, the space
>that is no space. Sustained in the moment. (sustained, sustenance)
This is something I have just been thinking about and am still muddled by.
For me, my body is my instrument. All sensations seem to be processed
through my body, even ones of a "higher" nature. If I am feeling love, I
feel it in my body. If I am feeling grief, I feel that in my body.
Kundalini experiences are most definitely a body-related.
I don't understand why to seek pleasure through the body is often
considered not as "enlightened." To me, all things flow through the body. I
know I am specifically interested in feeling ecstacy, love, joy, etc. IN MY
BODY. So, I am still confused by the definition of "pleasure." To me,
something that is pleasurable is something that "feels good." Don't
ecstacy, joy, love, etc by definition, feel good?
Even in the very rare occasions where I have been consciously "out of my
body," I WAS still in A body -- probably my etheric or astral or whatever,
and it was pleasurable.
I guess why this question came up for me is that last night I was reading
"Journey of Awakening," a book on meditation by Ram Dass. In it somewhere
he states that the goal of meditation is not bliss, spiritual joy,
pleasure, blah blah, but FREEDOM. Well I didn't completely understand this-
gee, I am seeking bliss and spiritual joy, and frankly, I was a little
confused on what the "freedom" was he was talking about. Freedom to see
that all thoughts are attachments? Okay, then what?
Still seeking answers,
Love & Light,
-- Peggy
<endsnip>
Reminiscent of Castaneda wherein the goal is to permanently and consciously step out of the physical body thereby gaining FREEDOM from death. Traversing the path of knowledge for bliss, spiritual joy, pleasure, blah, blah is called indulging.
It is a good question you raise. What is the goal of our respective paths? Is that goal in any way tied up with our ego (desire for pleasure, etc.)? Perhaps the very nature of "goal" is tied up with our ego. To not have an ego is to not aspire, not strive, not DO. DOing an activity begs the question - why, what aim, what goal?
So your author, Ram Dass, has made a goal called FREEDOM. It seems that raising kundalini could be a means to that end. We inundate our systems with energy and focus our attention on that energy. Our nervous systems strengthen. We become conscious of our energy body and it integrates in our consciousness. Given enough practice and power, at some point we can perhaps consciously choose for our consciousness to be the energy body just as most humans (un)consciously choose for their consciousness to be the physical body. But reaching that end still begs the question - why, what aim, what goal?
Having reached that end, would our consciousness not still be bound (as opposed to FREE) in the DOings of formless energy?
Zympht.
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:44:50 +0100
From: vic bonds <wildwingsATnospampeconic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: Still confused - was Re: Ecstasy/Sorcery
Message-Id: <20445085600388ATnospampeconic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In answer to what is Freedom, to me, in my humble and egofilled opinion,
Freedom would be the Freedom to be as you wanted, so if your aim is
to have lots of width of experience of all sorts of experiences in this
world and the spiritual worlds, one might want a well, equipted travel
machine of a human and spirit body which may be of light and powers
which may be enhanced with the ravings of the kundalini and the
holy spirit as well, and certainly, developement of the spiritual
faculties such as dreaming, stalking and love, as well as all other
items which may be used for the ultimate adventure of the Sorcery
of Life itself..
Victoria
>>
>>Ecstasy-- ek stasis-- outside of time... to step into the eternal now.
>>To experience the unity of soul in the time that is no time, the space
>>that is no space. Sustained in the moment. (sustained, sustenance.)
>I don't understand why to seek pleasure through the body is often
>considered not as "enlightened." To me, all things flow through the body. I
>know I am specifically interested in feeling ecstacy, love, joy, etc. IN MY
>BODY. So, I am still confused by the definition of "pleasure." To me,
>something that is pleasurable is something that "feels good." Don't
>ecstacy, joy, love, etc by definition, feel good?
>
>Even in the very rare occasions where I have been consciously "out of my
>body," I WAS still in A body -- probably my etheric or astral or whatever,
>and it was pleasurable.
>
>I guess why this question came up for me is that last night I was reading
>"Journey of Awakening," a book on meditation by Ram Dass. In it somewhere
>he states that the goal of meditation is not bliss, spiritual joy,
>pleasure, blah blah, but FREEDOM. Well I didn't completely understand this-
>gee, I am seeking bliss and spiritual joy, and frankly, I was a little
>confused on what the "freedom" was he was talking about. Freedom to see
>that all thoughts are attachments? Okay, then what?
>Still seeking answers,
>Love & Light,
>- Peggy
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
>
>Reminiscent of Castaneda wherein the goal is to permanently and consciously
step out of the physical body thereby gaining FREEDOM from death.
Traversing the path of knowledge for bliss, spiritual joy, pleasure, blah,
blah is called indulging.
>It is a good question you raise. What is the goal of our respective paths?
Is that goal in any way tied up with our ego (desire for pleasure, etc.)?
Perhaps the very nature of "goal" is tied up with our ego. To not have an
ego is to not aspire, not strive, not DO. DOing an activity begs the
question - why, what aim, what goal?
>
>So your author, Ram Dass, has made a goal called FREEDOM. It seems that
raising kundalini could be a means to that end. We inundate our systems
with energy and focus our attention on that energy. Our nervous systems
strengthen. We become conscious of our energy body and it integrates in our
consciousness. Given enough practice and power, at some point we can
perhaps consciously choose for our consciousness to be the energy body just
as most humans (un)consciously choose for their consciousness to be the
physical body. But reaching that end still begs the question - why, what
aim, what goal?
>
>Having reached that end, would our consciousness not still be bound (as
opposed to FREE) in the DOings of formless energy?
>
>
>Zympht.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:52:14 -0400
From: Elaine Green <GREENELATnospamumdnj.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, wildwingsATnospampeconic.net
Subject: RE: Still confused - was Re: Ecstasy/Sorcery -Reply
Message-Id: <s3492740.000ATnospamumdnj.edu>
Please remove me from your mailing lists.
Unsubscribe!
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:49:49 +0100
From: vic bonds <wildwingsATnospampeconic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: K-list Fool! ha!
Message-Id: <20494995600410ATnospampeconic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>Oh, Mystress, if you knew how sorry I am, oh gosh, I tell you it will never
>happppppppen again, the reality is that the time is running out.(IM 47)
>and I thought if I didn't do it know I would spout, a whisker or two upon my
>double chin, for I am doing the rocking chair binge, oh mystress, my sins
> are tinged with sadness, at the age that I AM. Girl, if I have offended
your very sensitive machine, may a thousand rolls of Bliss come back at
me,and you, Oh I am sorry to all
> of myKundalini Friends, for, I now realize what a sin it is to Play, the
Fool for even a day!
>sorry, sorry, sorry.... my Friends, I had no idea, hope God will and you will
> forgive me for crashing ou Realities.....
>I promise I will never send any more pics this is the first and the last
pictures to this list!!!!!
>A thousand licks to me, Mystress...
>In surrender,
>Victoria
>ps. If any one wants to know what this one looks like and has the
>machine to do it, let me know,and I send it Privately!!!smile...
>...........................................................................
......................................
>
>
>At 02:00 PM 4/6/97, you wrote:
>> Victoria:
>> Please write out 1000 times, longhand, no cut and paste, no photocopies,
>>no mechanical assistance.
>> "I will not send email attachments to K. list EVER EVER AGAIN!"
>>
>> I am sending this to the list in an attempt to forestall the bombardment
>>of flames you are likely about to recieve from listmembers whose systems
>>you have crashed by doing this.
>> I am not angry with you, you didn't crash my system, tho I impatiently
>>interruppted the message 3 times before I would wait for it to down load. I
>>cannot comment of the photo itself, as I am not equipped to view files of
>>that type.
>> This, Fool, was a very bad idea. Is a very bad idea, for anyone else
>>considering it, you go write lines too.
>>
>> One more time ....(sigh)
>> Do not send attachments to K.list!
>> They crash people's mail systems!
>> they overload the server!
>>196608 x 245 members = too much!
>>They get people who get email at work fired when they crash thier system at
>>work!
>> They are often not even accessable to many systems, and so show up a
>>gibberish, once they have finished crashing the server!
>> They screw up the K.list digest, which is sent out when it reaches 32k!
>> Whole editions of the digest show up as gibberish!
>> People who subscribe to the digest usually do so because of mail volume
>>restrictions, so it messes up their life, too!
>> These screwy posts are then preserved inthe archives forver, lurking to
>>crash more systems of people who request archives in the future!
>> DONT! SEND! ATTATCHMENTS! TO! K.LIST! EVER!!!
>>
>> Post them on your website and send the URL. If you have no website send
>>them to me and I will put them up on mine for you. JPG or Gif only, please.
>> Blessings, List Mystress.
>>
>>
>>At 12:27 07/04/97 -0500, WildbankVATnospamaol.com wrote:
>>>H i,
>>>
>>>here's a pic of me, taken yesterday, I have been enjoying the focus on
>>>male-female
>>>relationships and tantra-spirituality, and I find it really confusing! ha!
>>>Sincerely,
>>>Victoria
>>
>>
>>
>> Mystress Angelique Serpent,
>> Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
>> Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
>> *******************
>>Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils.
>> -- Hector Louis Berlioz
>>Sure, it's going to kill a lot of people, but they may be dying of
>>something else anyway. -- Othal Brand, member of a Texas pesticide
>>review board
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
>>
>>
>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:09:27 +0100
From: vic bonds <wildwingsATnospampeconic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Dimensional sounds
Message-Id: <21092722900454ATnospampeconic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Yes, I have experienced very similar dreams, of all assortments , the music
streams, alot of shamanic music, and magic,too,
for shifting dreams, pay attention, it is good, your answers may be
there, and one day you'll realize, the music doesn't end with the
sunrise,get up get up with the sun.....
The music keeps going, the beat goes on, the music changes, the fire's warm,
you keep going,you keep on going, and one day, you'll see a moment in
infinity....
victoria
>I had some strange dream last night. I was at a party and there was only
>one way for me to get in, but people were blocking my way. Eventually I
>found another way in and when I got back to the original entrance, the way
>was cleared. I felt like the group of people were hiding something from
>me. Eventually I started hearing sounds, all kinds of sounds: klanking and
>bells, laughter, screams, sounds like whales all mixed together and I knew
>that these were sounds from another dimension.
>I saw this person who appeared to be in charge and I started shouting to
>her the sounds I was hearing and it seemed to scare her and the rest of the
>crowd.
>Then I turned into a cobra and from previous dreams I realized that in
>doing so
>my weekness would be if someone came at me as a mongoose. But nobody did
>and I can't recall anymore after this. Even though I was mad because I
>felt they were hiding something, deep inside I still felt a treemendous love.
>
>The sounds were tremendously incredible!
>
>Love John Halonen
>
>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:43:33 +0100
From: vic bonds <wildwingsATnospampeconic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Unnaceptable Questions/and answers
Message-Id: <21433366200505ATnospampeconic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>>I really like the way, you make my days,
>you take your pain, to twist our brains,
>If you continue to be ,a seer to deeds,
>unmock our futures, and realities..
>be fair to us , and take the fuss,
>and make it simpler, which is a must,
> for this list is comprised of big surprise,
> and man, you win them all with your
>truth and lies....
>victoria
>your Friend, ha ha
>
>
>
>
>>
>>It has come to my attention
>>that perception based on conclusions
>>are as meaningless
>>as conclusive perceptions
>>which is of course
>>equal if only in being
>>meaningless
>>
>>In order to destructure the
>>intellectual basis in order to
>>feel and perceive rather
>>than know what is unknowable
>>we can say many things
>>ultimately all meaning as much the opposite
>>as the experience eternally absorbing
>>the very doubtful nature into acceptance
>>
>>by engaging in the process
>>by bypassing the passing thoughts
>>into fluid expression
>>we ennoble and enable the combining
>>of our own part
>>
>>this communication generally
>>conveys more a rhythmic ability
>>to swap in and out from conventional reality
>>being unconfined to one meaning
>>or less
>>
>>Most Kind Regards
>>Lobster
>>
>>
>>
>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 14:50:09 -0700
From: Peter Norton <pnortonATnospamatwc.teradyne.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Dan G., wherefore art thou?
Message-ID: <33496C11.31E5ATnospamatwc.teradyne.com>
is Dan G. still on the list?
If so, hope you are ok?
I really hope you were spared a crash landing.
Please let us know how the Universe has been treating you!
Take care,
peter
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 16:52:48
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: lphurleyATnospamplainfield.bypass.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Welcome lurker Diva Leigh
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970406165248.1ecf4e56ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:07 06/04/97 -0700, Phillip & Leigh Hurley wrote:
>Hi Joe, et al
>
>Thanks for the warm welcome, and your very meaty questions
Yes! Welcome welcome Diva Leigh!
<snip>
>Before we go on, please read the text "Just to the Purpose" (JTP) at our
>home page.
>http://plainfield.bypass.com/~lphurley/
I read it, it is an amazing document. May I link to it from my site?
>> 1. Is there any part of pure sex which leads away from the divine.
>
>Where is the divine located that anything can lead away from it?
>We do not know the purpose,
>But we do know the purpose is in process as manifestation,
>Thus all manifestation is just to the purpose.
>
>> Please consider the 'sexual addicts' or others whose entire persona is
>> attached to sex (Mae West).
>
>I admire Mae West as an icon of female sexuality, and if I get to the
>point where I desire and need to hire Shivas, and I have the money, I'd
>probably do it, too. Our historical perceptions of Mae are more than a
>little tinged with sexism - the same behavior in men of that era would
>have been considered perhaps naughty but not aberrent. (I have no doubt
>there were male equivalents hiring female prostitutes.)
I am an admirer of Mae West as well.
Female sexual appetite is actually greater than male, but women by the
necessity of fertility and culture, are better at repression. A woman's
physical capacity to experience sexual pleasure keeps growing all her life,
according to how much it is acessed. More blood vessels, more nerves,
stronger muscles, more sexual stamina.
Imagine if a man's <===3 kept growing all his life? It would hang to his
knees and cause fainting when erect! ;)
Freud's concept of penis envy by comparsion of surface structure is like
comparing a BMW and a Mercedes, but judging the mercedes by the only hood
ornament.
>
>> What role do many of the sex fantasies
>> (some violent) play?
I create consensual "violent" fantasies for those who wish to experience
them, for my own sadistic pleasure and for money. Sometimes my "victims"
are awakened by the experience. Always they experience growth and
catharsis. to them it is an overwhelmingly positive experience. But it is
consensual and negotiated.
Professionally, my services are stricty non sexual, no sexual contact, no
acts of prostitution offered. In our roles of Dominant and submissive,
they are desiring to experience pain, bondage and denial at the hands of a
Goddess figure they feel unwothy of sex contact with. Yet the Tantric
energy exchange is powerfully manifest in these acts of sexual fantasy
fulfillment, and resonant of shamanic endurance visionquest and Christian
humility testing.
Oddly, many submissives find the stories of the torture of Christian
Saints to be a powerful early erotic influence. Even the tale of Christs
torture and humiliation at the hands of the Romans for some carries a
powerful erotic charge from an age too young for understanding the emotion.
Go figure.
I have a question, tho.
A piece of information that has been on my mind seeking understanding.
There are some tantric styles/Hundu culture, that believe a woman's
orgasm is necessary for conception. Well and good.
There is also a statistic that I encountered, that women who are
violently raped are actually more likely to become pregnant. It seems the
terror and adrenaline triggers spontaneous ovulation, no matter what point
a woman in is her cycle.
Sometimes the terror triggers orgasm, too. The trauma is then increased
as a woman tries to integrate her body's apparent betrayal of her emotions.
Such a rape is less likely to be prosecuted, as the woman (or even moreso
a man) fears the scorn she/he will recieve if she/he admits having
experienced involutary orgasm at the hands of a rapist.
My belifs says that all acts of love and pleasure serve the Goddess. But
I have a hard time integrating the fact that Nature favors rapists as DNA
donors.
Any thoughts?
>> 2. If so, is it morally valid for the other party to participate in
>> that union? (In other words, please list some examples of sex you would
consider immoral--if any.)
>
>"moral" ? This is a christian concept. From my perspective there is
>only
>vidya (wisdom) and avidya (ignorance). Morality is a Secondary Theology
>thang, not an absolute (see JTP). I have my own personal preferences,
>you have yours, as long as you don't impose yours on me, and vice versa,
>there's no problem - we're all in the process of gaining vidya in
>whatever ways we need to any how.
>We do not know the purpose.... (etc.) JTP
Also put, there is what I like, and that is good, and what I don't like,
and I call that bad, and these things are personal and subject to change.
There is no evil.
There is what goes around comes around, what you are calling recprocity,
to define "morality".
I friend recently told me of a man who violently raped 8 women, and then
had an awakening experience wherin he understood he has been manifesting a
cathartic experience that each of these women needed to move forward.
Agreement for the act had been made by both parties on a soul level. Maybe
he was just nuts....but soul level agreement is the conclusion I have come
to regarding my own childhood incidents of abuse as well.
<snip>
>> > You have really never done tantra until you can watch
>> > your lover making love to someone else, allow them to "fall in love
>> > with someone else" and through it all keep your consciousness in a state
>> > of worshipful bliss as you observe this aspect of the Shiva/Shakti
>> > play.
>> I find this very powerful--thank you.
>>
>> > For in tantra, the only act that approaches anything like our
>> > western concept of "sin" (avidya-ignorance) is to act with jealousy as a
>> > motivation.
>>
>> Help us flesh this out a bit. How about selfishness (You are sleeping
>> with him and you could be sleeping with me) without the jealousy angle?
>
>The natural solution - we all sleep together, of course
Bravo! It works for me! I have 4 personal slaves and one straight lover.
All of these men and woman have my pleasure in mind as a primary focus, and
jealousy is not allowed. Should 2 or 3 or all of my slaves be attending me
at once, we will all play together, their energy fueling mine to new
heights and my pleasure as well as each other's being felt by them as
physically occuring in their own bodies through the tantric, psychic
connection I hold with them all.
They also get the opportunity to be the focal point of my attention and
thier "stablemates" at once on occasion as well. I could not create for
them these experiences if my slaves were not familiar with each other, and
trusting of my empathy and direction.
I have had to spend a certain amout of time training each to be free of
jealousy, but the rewards are manifold. Each of them has come to realize
the paradoxical security in this arrangement. I will never abandon them for
another, I will simply judicously and with care in selection add another
member to my slave family. They form a family, a support network for each
other as well.
I am awakened, so I can be in love with all of them at once, and the
rest of the planet, too! I have a lot of energy, and can be very demanding.
Before I abandoned the straight vanilla world and monogamy, I had too many
3 month long serial monogamous relationships. I burned the relationships
out! I was always expecting way too much of my needs to be met by one
person, and the relationship could not survive.
Each of my slaves and my Tantric lover fulfill different niches in my
life. I never doubt that I am loved, and I demand of my slaves only as much
as they give to me freely without unwanted hardship. Consensuality in all
activities.
I own them as much as they believe I do. Because by nature they are
deeply sexual submissive personalities, for thier own pleasure and
wellbeing they choose to believe that I own them utterly.
>
>> How about destruction. (I want to sleep with you because I believe it
>> will debase you, and that is what I really want.)
>
Debasement exists in the mind, we are all utterly perfect creatures who
can only be lessened if we believe it.
My slaves chose to feel themselves as debased compared to me, because
they like it!
If I choose to have sexual contact with them, or give them any other form
of my attention they choose to see it as a very great honor, which I accept
on behalf of my Goddess self. I honor them by treating them as they desire,
honoring thier submissive needs to seek humility. In this, I am usually
Shiva the loving Goddess Mother, but also sometimes Shiva the destroyer,
challenging them in love with cathartic experience.
I never strike out at them in anger, tho. Anger I release on 2d demons,
shoot them to bits playing "Heretic" on the computer. Appropriate, eh?
>As mentioned above, at whatever point people give themselves over to
>anything other than that primal energy as their motivation, they go
>away. It's a cosmic law - and really quite fascinating to observe in
>operation. Motivation/attitude is everything. Shiva takes care of his
>own/Shakti takes care of her own.
>
>Make Love! Leigh
>
>
It's true, I can tell surface compatability quite easily, by the level
of respect I am getting. I remember someone who claimed to be a tantric
master writing that he planned to "boink" me when he was in town. I did not
feel like I wanted to be boinked, so his plans came to naught. Turned out I
was too busy to get together with him...
Blessings, Angelique.
Mystress Angelique Serpent,
Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
*******************
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils.
-- Hector Louis Berlioz
Sure, it's going to kill a lot of people, but they may be dying of
something else anyway. -- Othal Brand, member of a Texas pesticide
review board
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 14:59:51 -0800
From: Peggy Freeman <pfreemanATnospamstanford.edu>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: Still confused - was Re: Ecstasy and Pleasure
Message-Id: <v03007805af6f28a95c79ATnospam[36.27.0.81]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jason <zymphtATnospambluewin.ch> wrote:
>Reminiscent of Castaneda wherein the goal is to permanently and
>consciously >step out of the physical body thereby gaining FREEDOM from
>death. Traversing >the path of knowledge for bliss, spiritual joy,
>pleasure, blah, blah is called >indulging.
Okay, so one could have freedom from (as I gather it) physical death, but
why is wanting spiritual joy considered indulging? I'm sorry, and I may be
completely off track here, but it seems a holdover from older, more
puritanical belief systems. Why does Casteneda want freedom from death?
What's so bad about the earth plane? Could it be that what he REALLY wanted
was to access the higher energies -- that is, "spiritual joy"?
>It is a good question you raise. What is the goal of our respective
>paths? Is >that goal in any way tied up with our ego (desire for
>pleasure, etc.)? Perhaps >the very nature of "goal" is tied up with our
>ego. To not have an ego is to >not aspire, not strive, not DO. DOing an
>activity begs the question - why, >what aim, what goal?
>
>Having reached that end, would our consciousness not still be bound (as
>opposed to FREE) in the DOings of formless energy?
>
>
>Zympht.
But here on the Earth plane, we all DO. It is part of BEing here, is it
not? I don't mean DOing in the striving, struggling, grasping way, but in
the flow of consciousness and creativity. I have this sense that when one
is attuned to his/her higher nature, to DO is to BE - and to BE is to DO -
flip sides of the same coin. Or, as some others would sing, Do be do be
do...
Just more thoughts,
-- Peggy
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 18:11:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: voltronATnospamvoy.net (Jon Locke)
To: voltronATnospamvoy.net
Subject: Whitley Strieber's SECRET SCHOOL.
Message-Id: <v01530500af6ed8a23c95ATnospam[209.42.129.156]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Would you like to prepare for contact? What should we do? How can we react
in a meaningful way? Whitley wants us to know the visitors are right here,
right now! Whitley Strieber will take you back to your childhood innocence,
and start from threre to build a mechanism of contact right in your own
body and soul. you will not only get clear instructions about how to manage
your contact experience to your benefit, but also proof that your own
personal ability to do so is very real and very, very, powerful.
According to Mr. Strieber, "We should not assume anything aboutt he
visitors. Alien or not, good or bad, it just doesn't matter. What matters
is us and out ability to empower ourselves. We are good, we are strong, and
we are here. We can make the contact experiences our own."
The Secret School is on his web site, among other things.
http://www.strieber.com/
====================================
========
Jon Locke
The Philosopher's Stone
http://www.voy.net/~voltron/
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.