1997/03/22 22:15
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #112
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 112
Today's Topics:
Face of Duality: List Mystress Ref Call.
Re: sense: Sound (good for all!)
Re: drugs
Re: A BIG THANK YOU TO FELLOW YOGIS AND SURFERS
Re: drugs
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 16:50:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Face of Duality: List Mystress Ref Call.
Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960321175548.0977834cATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Dear Dan and other list members,
>
>One of the first posts I read when I joined this list last September was
>Dan leaving during the DAVELONG wars. I think the first post I made
>after my introduction was the DNFEC (Do Not Feed Energy Creatures) post.
<snip>
>While I am happy for your achievements Dan, please understand that when
>I read a signature file such as: I am one of the few enlightened ones.
>I hear a strong unspoken statement, "and you are not". Chevy Chase and
>SNL are ringing in my ears. You may want to reconsider your approach,
>if you really want to help others achieve your state. Then, of course,
>you won't be "one of the few". But you can always join the Marines.
<snip>
>peacefully,
>
>Joe
Thank you for this, Joe. It resonates with what I have been feeling when I
see that sig.... I do not moderate, or control...but I do watch out for some
things, blatant and continued disrespect of the list's intentions is one of
them.
>>>>>Dan, one of the few enlightened.
List Mystress Ref Call: Foul!
I find the elitism implied in this statement to be an offense to the
intentions of the list as a place for all to gather and share experiences of
different paths without fear of negative judgements.
(Yes, this is a negative judgement of a negative judgement. I realize
that. This post has sat considering it's own motives for days. Watching the
numbers of expressions of dismay posted to the list on this topic continue
to increase. )
The other derogatory judgements about the inferior intelligence level or
evolution of others you have made in your posts I will let pass, they are
seen once. I might suggest you go back to the archives and reread how *you*
responded emotionally to insulting posts in the past, if you cannot find the
sensitivity or empathy to do so from your present level of awareness.
You have had many positive and loving things to say as well, and you *are*
welcome here.
However this statement is in your signature, and you are posting more
often than any other listmember since your return, and restating this
elitist attitude with every post.
Your statement that you and seven others alone have reached enlightenment
is insensitive to the diversity of beliefs on this list.
Feel free to call yourself an enlightened being if you feel that to be
your truth, you are qualified to judge yourself. However insisting on
excluding not only the other 180 members on this list, but also nearly all
of the rest of the planet from enlightenment is a narrow and predjudicial
statement.
Penalty: This posted chastisement from List Mystress.
That's it. I'm not going to unsub you or anything, I do believe in free
speech.
But I would like you to change your sig, as it is in it's own way as
offensive as the judgements from Davelong-gone who caused you to unsub in
the first place.
To state: I am enlightened and you are not because you are:
not part of my soul group of 8 in a meadow.
not my church.
your sexual orientation.
too stupid.
a different skin color.
into nutmeg.
Whatever,
it's predjudice and negative judgement discrimination.
It implies separation and fear.
It is inappropriate to the ideals of this list.
Please stop it.
>We Are One- in peace, love, and light.
>There Are Always Possibilities...
>
>
Those things are true! Blessings, List Mystress.
And now, a repost of List Guidelines by Richard Satin, List Founder.
1. Please don't quote any more of a post in your reply than necessary.
The optimum is not to quote anything at all except what is needed to put
your comment in perspective. DO NOT post "I agree" notes to the list. And
especially do not post "I agree" notes which quote a 7k long post!!! Your
fellow list members thank you.
2. Take "private" jokes, conversations, etc. off line. Do not post anything
which is of interest to only one person to the list in general. Remember:
everything which is posted to the list is rebroadcast to nearly 200
people. Keep this in mind, and post privately whenever appropriate. This is
treating others with respect and consideration.
3. Try to make your header convey the subject of the post accurately. This
will really pay dividends to you and others. Take the extra 10 seconds. If
you are posting a personal experience, try something like SUBJECT: Personal
Experience. If it about a book you enjoyed, try SUBJECT: Kundalini book.
You get the idea. Make it specific when you can. This will help the rest of
the list members key in to the posts that are of interest to them. In
addition, you will find that more people will read your post. Many members
(myself included) find ourselves deleting tens of posts at a time, because
we simply run out of time to keep up.
The list is serving a great purpose. Almost everyone had kind words to say.
So it looks like we are succeeding to a very great degree. I know that I am
very thankful to be able to play a role in this list.
Very truly yours, Richard
----------------(other comments
follow)-----------------------------------------------------------
(comment from the list:)
"I look forward to checking my e mail everyday, because I know there will
be posts there from my fellow list members.!"
(comment from the list:)
"All these things have helped me move out of a bad spot, and I feel like
I'm blossoming again."
(comment from the list:)
There are a large number of people on the list, who are feeling frustrated.
The main reason for this seems to be the "private conversations" which
should really be taken off line.
(comment from the list:)
"I have never posted to the list...You see, that's a problem, I think I
have interesting thing to contribute, but cannot do it with all this chat
going on.
(comment from the list:)
"I have a feeling that the people I will reach with my communication: the
effective, creative, spiritual, busy people with long experience and good
knowledges of the k-litterature and similar things leave the list after a
few weeks lurking. The signal-to-noise level is to low for them. They don't
have the time and patience to select the raisins.
(comment from the list:)
"(I waste a lot of time erasing all these chat-noises. I erase at a high
velocity, and do sometimes miss the signal, at least the value of the
signals is decreased... a kind of hopelessness...)
(comment from the list:)
>4. How would you like to see the list changed? Or, do you like it just the
>way it is?
I want everybody to ask silent:
1. Is this necessary to post?
2. Is this close to the topic of kundalini?
3. Is this private communication? In that case I will post it directly.
(comment from the list:)
The problem is that, say 10 persons currently posting, are emotionally
upset by what is happening with them. They need support, and have found
that they can use the list as a private, therapeutic and pep-talk line.
They don't realise that they misuse the list for hundreds of others. They
don't realise that this list gets a too great turnover. There is a natural
selection of people. The dominating type of talks draw people of same kind,
other people unsubscribe. The results is a narrow, boring and unstable
list.
(comment from the list:)
While this type of ongoing conversation might be interesting to the few who
are participating in it - and they might be learning alot about themselves
through the arguement - BUT.......It would be nice to see a little more
discernment being put into use.
(comment from the list:)
I would say that I think there are a lot of posts like the response ones
that are me too etc. kinds of posts that should be sent privately. One of
the lists I am on occasionally posts reminders to post those types of
response privately and reminding them to keep the posts mainly to list
topics. I believe there is a "safe place atmophere" when you can post
slightly (and I mean slightly) off topic such as support etc. which allows
more freedom to post from your heart when you are going through such heavy
spiritual changes and being able to say whats really happening for you.
(comment from the list:)
Also, some subscribers post many times a day, which seems to me to be a bit
insensitive to those of us who work outside the home full time and can't
possilbly wade through 68 mail messages when we get home and consequently
have to delete the entire batch.
(comment from the list:)
>It's easy enough,..just keep the subject where it belongs...KUNDALINI!
(comment from the list:)
I second this motion. I joined the list to discuss, learn, and listen to
others about experiences, techniques for working with, understandings, etc.
with and about kundalini.
(comment from the list:)
I understand we may each have different perspectives, and I'd like to
request that if you have something to share which relates to the topic of
kundalini, please clarify how you see that it relates if it might not be
apparent to others.
(comment from the list:)
It has been a bit much lately, especially multiple postings by individuals
which are often responses to others which perhaps would have been better
off directed to the individual than to the list.
(comment from the list:)
I'm fussing a lot but there's the occasional jewel that justifies sorting
through the dregs.
(comment from the list:)
I feel the volume of mail needs to be reduced. Lets us start with not
posting to the list comments like "I liked that", "agree with you" etc.
Moderated list is not a bad idea either.
(comment from the list:)
just remind the list repeatedly to keep messages clean and short while
retaining the valuable parts. Like by not including the original message in
full since we all have already received it, especially the "I AGREE" 's
which include the whole original message. I'd just like to say that for me
it's not a matter of network resources. I use ISDN and have lots of room
for excess baggage. It just takes me longer to browse for meaningful
content.
(comment from the list:)
What does get tiresome, though, are inside conversations that are posted to
everybody. I understand that they lend spontenaity and a sense of
group-ness, and some back-and-forth stuff has been quite interesting, like
the guru discussion, but given the volume of mail, taking the time to pull
up a message of 2 or 3 words makes me sigh.
(comment from the list:)
I really need the contact with other kindred souls, but in my opinion, the
general line of discussion has reduced itself to mere chat as opposed to
what I thought the original intent was. There is far too many responses
that should really be sent to the original poster rather than to the list
and in doing so, clogs everyone else's mail box with things that are really
irrelevant.
(comment from the list:)
I may be way off base about this, but it seems to me that some of the folks
who are most experienced with kundalini have become strangely silent, my
guess being that the sheer volume has overwhelmed them or they simply lost
interest since the subject seems to have strayed. Those people who I
originally loved hearing from were Jean Tracy, El Collie, Graham D. etc. We
all need the wisdom these people have.
(comment from the list:)
My preference is a self-moderated list, which means we might have to remind
one another from time to time about how to keep the list as we would like
it. Only if that proves not to work would I vote for a moderated list.
(comment from the list:)
However once in a while their have been hostile posts from folks who did
want to offend. I have been the object of such posts myself. Guidelines
might help here. I always assume that such people perhaps don't fully
realize the pain they cause.
(end of list comments)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Subscribing to the Kundalini List
What is a Mailing List?
A mailing list is a sort of computerised bulletin board. Members can post
messages which are then sent to everyone else who belongs to the list.
Other members can then respond to the list or to the member privately. The
latter is sometimes referred to as "taking it off line". A chain of
messages on a particular topic is called a thread.
The Three Addresses, What they Mean, and How to Use Them
MAINTENANCE ADDRESS
The kundalini-l list is run automatically by a computer program called
Smartlist. Its address for the kundalini list is
kundalini-l-requestATnospamexecpc.com. This address should be used for
subcription, unsubscription, and info requests. (See next section for
detailed instructions as to how to do these things.)
POSTING ADDRESS
Any message sent to the "posting address" kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com is
automatically rebroadcast to every one on the list.
Make sure that this is what you want to do! If you send
subscribe/unsubscribe messages to the posting address, your innocent and
perfectly valid request will be sent throughout the world, possibly
annoying other list members and making you look very inconsiderate.
A hint. If you use your mail reader to automatically reply to posts which
came from the list, you will be sending private email to whoever wrote that
particular post. No one else will be able to see what you write. Instead,
send your replies to the posting address (kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com).
LIST OWNER'S ADDRESS
This is where problems and questions should be sent. All mail to this
address is read by a human being: me! kundalini-l-ownerATnospamexecpc.com.
Subscribing and Unsubscribing to kundalini-l
Note that the name of the list is kundalini-l. The letter at the end is a
lower case L (l), not a one (1). While it is virtually impossible to
differentiate these in plain/ascii text, the distinction is important as
the list name followed by a one (kundalini-1) won't work at all. The L at
the end stands for list.
The subscription list is hidden. No one has access, except the list owner.
If you choose to subscribe, you can be certain that your name and address
will not be given to anyone. All identities are hidden, unless you choose
to reveal yourself by posting.
To SUBSCRIBE:
Send email to kundalini-l-requestATnospamexecpc.com
With the subject line: SUBSCRIBE
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Send email to kundalini-l-requestATnospamexecpc.com
With the subject line: UNSUBSCRIBE
It's as easy as that. Note that Smartlist (the computer program that
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As a new subscriber, you may want to post some details about yourself to
the list. The following questions (all optional) may be useful:
1. Name
2. Age
3. When did you first become aware of kundalini in your life?
4. How long ago was this?
5. What are some of the things you have noticed?
6. What has changed/is changing in your life?
7. Do you have any particular practices that you have found helpful?
8. Are you involved in any service to others?
9. What are you hoping to get out of this list?
The Digest Option
A digest option is available. When subscribed to the digest, the postings
are grouped together and mailed to you at one time; either when the file
reaches 32k in size, or when the oldest message is two days old.
All posts will show up on both the regular kundalini-l list and on the
digest (kundalini-l-d). So, there is no advantage to subscribing to both
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unless you have a specific reason to do otherwise.
To subscribe to the digest option:
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To unsubscribe from the digest option:
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Background to the List
The list began in June 1996. There was an earlier list called Kundalini-l
hosted by Haakon Rian Ueland which became inactive sometime before. That
list was moderated. Haakon would accept postings for a period of time. At
some point, he would edit them and send them back out as a large packet of
information. This had the benefit of removing "noise" and clutter. On the
downside, a vibrancy and immediacy was lost.
After communicating to various people as a Friend Online from the Shared
Transformation site and journal, it became obvious that there was a real
need for a forum in which people could feel free to openly discuss the ways
in which kundalini is active in their lives. Many are undergoing this
process more or less alone. Others may have loving and supportive friends
and partners, yet still feel a need for connections with like minded
others. This list is an attempt to meet these needs.
Mystress Angelique Serpent,
Dominant Experiential Facilitator.
Website= http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent
*******************
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils.
-- Hector Louis Berlioz
Sure, it's going to kill a lot of people, but they may be dying of something
else anyway. -- Othal Brand, member of a Texas pesticide review board
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 16:58:21
From: Ed Johnson <orangeATnospamislandnet.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: sense: Sound (good for all!)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970322165821.548f7170ATnospamislandnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:53 22/03/97 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-03-22 08:38:01 EST, you write:
>
><<
> Lotsa love, don't run with scissors
> Aaron :)
> >>
>YES, Aaron thank you. Finally advice I can actually follow effortlessly.
> Don't Run With Scissors! Whenever I feel lost and inexperienced not to
>mention totally untalented relative to the rest of the listers, I shall
>instantly and subliminally revert to Don't Run With Scissors! I shall do the
>Don't Run on the inhale and With Scissors on the exhale. Not only will it
>supercede my old and unfathomable mantra but it will be my battle cry, my
>interior freedom. No more flagellating myself for not dedicating my life to
>the care of lepers. No more shame for never having experienced an OBE.
> Good-by to beating myself up for getting bored with flute music. For I KNOW
>I can conquer the urge to run with scissors at least as good as any K lister.
> Can Enlightenment be far behind?
> Love & Thanks,
> Susan
>
>
>
When I read something as funny as this, Susan, I KNOW I am not enlightened!
ed.
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:59:10 -0500 (EST)
From: TeeegeeeATnospamaol.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: drugs
Message-ID: <970322195908_1983146159ATnospamemout19.mail.aol.com>
RW writes....
<< I just need to understand why one needs to find what is inside
through the use of drugs, (seems like crutch to me) I would think, (and
maybe others wouldn't) that there is more gratification in finding that
which
is inside and sacrid by yourself and through your own expertise. Enlighten
me on this, I can't seem to understand. >>
I can't speak for those that use drugs as recreational vehicles, but, maybe I
can help you understand it from another point of view.
I was diagnosed as a narcoleptic back in 1990.... the neurologist gave me
amphetimines as the drug of choice to keep me awake. Previous to that date,
it seemed I had spent a lifetime of sleeping, extreme tiredness and
depression, even suicidal at times.
After being on the drugs, I snapped out of my 'listlessness', sold a business
I hated (electronic distributor), went to hypnotherapy school and opened a
hypnotherapy business. It was great!
During that time, I began my 'search'. I devoured metaphysical books, went
to classes, meditated, studied - anything I could find to help me discover
whatever it was that I was trying to find. I truly didn't know at that time.
Finally the day came when I found what I was looking for - God. So now I had
a focus point. Still on the drugs, they helped me to become rather obsessive
about the whole thing, which in turn, brought about some beautiful AND some
rather bizarre mystical experiences (which I have previously wrote about
here).
After my last most frightening experience, I realized the drugs had been a
factor for me seeing things I wasn't quite prepared to see (My K had arose
and blew my crown chakra to bits!). I quit the drugs in Jan. 1994 and
haven't touched them nor anything else since.
And what I've discovered since that time, to my complete surprise, is that my
search wasn't for God, it was for ME! Thanks to the drugs (had I not gotten
on the drugs, I would still be depressed & suicidal), which led to my search,
which led to my obsessiveness, which led to heaven and hell, I've discovered
myself! So kewl.....
Where I used to be a martyr and a wimp, I stand up for myself now. I can say
no when I feel like it. I can even give my opinion now! I just saw a
friend the other day I hadn't seen in a few years, and he was amazed at this
- that I actually didn't always agree with him, like before - and was very
proud of this change in me. It may not seem like a big deal to a lot of you,
but to me, it is a very big deal.....
I've learned to take charge of my thoughts and emotions. Depression is a
thing of the past. Before I had no faith, no foundation or even knowledge of
God. Now, I cast my cares and let the Universe take care of everything.
I've discovered that I really need do nothing, that all my needs are
already met. And how wonderful that knowledge is!
I let go of a bad marriage during my search. I have stayed best friends with
my ex (we were married 22 years). I've learned to communicate with others
like I've never been able to before. I've learned to live in the moment,
which has eliminated all fears and worries - to realize THE BIG PICTURE and
that I can't always see it, but luckily, I know its there.
And I could go on and on and on about my ongoing discovery of Myself. I
guess the point I'm trying to make is that without the drugs I was on, I
would most likely still be that depressed and suicidal person, to wimpy to
leave an abusive marriage, someone with no knowledge of God and who I really
am.
I've discovered that we cannot really judge where a person is in his life -
that what may seem 'bad' to you or me, is only part of their natural
evolution, to take them where they are supposed to be. And again, I may be
wrong here, but those are my thoughts on the subject.
Take Care,
xxxtg
a former wimp
"Ain't it funny how things fall in line when you take what life gives"
Jerry Jeff Walker
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 01:56:36 +0000
From: Tom Aston <yogi.tomATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
To: Mary <chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: A BIG THANK YOU TO FELLOW YOGIS AND SURFERS
Message-ID: <z8jJ1UAU3INzEw4HATnospamtantrictom.demon.co.uk>
In message <199703222319.PAA07217ATnospamgridsat.thegrid.net>, Mary
<chooseagainATnospamthegrid.net> writes
> Before I would say "you're welcome" I would want to know what this means:
>"using as basis for media activities".
>
> TIA
>
>
>At 10:04 PM 3/22/97 +0000, Tom Aston wrote:
>>Dear fellow yogis and surfers,
>>
>>Have been reviewing private and list messages of first week on net
with
>>a view to using as basis for media activities pinpointing issues,
areas
>>of interest and practical advice when dealing with kundalini
experience,
>>and the general standard is quite extraordinary - have progressed
>>further in a week on kundalini list in thinking and organising and
>>structuring knowledge and experience than in years meeting occasional
>>fellow yogis.....so here's A REALLY BIG THANK YOU TO EVERYONE for
making
>>this a truly positive, life-affirming and co-operative venture steeled
>>in the fire of experience and knowledge and the emergent wisdom that
is
>>so badly needed.....in Buddhism we'd call you the SANGHA or spiritual
>>community, which is the third and most crucial of the three jewels of
>>Buddhism - enlightenment and loneliness do not make good bedfellows.
So
>>thanks again and keep up the high standard of messages and responses
and
>>general playfulness of mood. So many aspects to the buddha
>>mind...infinite forms....and lots of humour too. kEEP IT COMING, HERE
>>COMES THE DAWN...AND ITS SILVER....LIKE THE BUDDHA OF PURIFICATION,
>>VAJRASATTVA. and he's laughing all the way to the cremation grounds...
>>
>>Yours in love and the dhamrma gaia Yogi Tom
>>--
>>Tom Aston
>>
>Don't worry, no one's going to be quoted etc...no sensation..no breach
of privacy.... - just using general experience here to get a feel for
what kind of things people are interested in. Understand caution about
media as i know this world well...ended up reverting to ethical
alternative media until even that wasn't pure enough f0or shakti so
ended up with fledgling "spiritual" media company Silver Dawn Media
starting with very modest aims of perhaps placing odd article in
spiritual publications and buddhist and yogic newsletters etc....means
and ends are one, no short cuts on this as lifelong project, have to
"live it" if to be pure enough and with enough integrity to bring
meaningful change and knowledge...this is not a commercial venture, at
best will cover costs if lucky, relying on riends, acquaintances working
voluntarily on various aspects of electronic and paper publishing, any
profits go to social, health and educational action with spiritual
philosophy or/and holistic outlook...
as a buddhist call this dharma activity - no compromise as this corrupts
any benefits that might appear to come from money or writing....guess
take up where Gopi Krishna and Lee Sannella MD left off with their
deaths. More than happy to consult those on list who want to know more
or see anything i write based on this general experience....no rush here
as has to be right, otherwise waste of time..just email me and let me
know what you're interested in and play it by ear....would appreciate
such interest and any feedback that came from it...all helps...me just
bringing together experiences and knowledge and information that is
quite hard to access even if look quite hard.
hope this clarifies things and lays to rest any fears that a hack had
infiltrated pure world of shakti with eye to corrupting trust and
cooperation...Best wishes Yogi Tom
>>
>
--
Tom Aston
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:30:38 -0900 (AKST)
From: Jason <fsjra5ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
To: RWilli2ATnospamaol.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: drugs
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970322190054.32098B-100000ATnospamaurora.alaska.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 22 Mar 1997 RWilli2ATnospamaol.com wrote:
> Free will, yes we all have been created with that, thank God (or whomever)
> Sorry if I seemed to cross over the "LINE" didn't realize that one
> existed. I just need to understand why one needs to find what is inside
> through the use of drugs, (seems like crutch to me) I would think, (and
> maybe others wouldn't) that there is more gratification in finding that which
> is inside and sacrid by yourself and through your own expertise. Enlighten
> me on this, I can't seem to understand.
> As for driving the speed limit, yes, I do. Drinking only if I am not
> driving, and very minimal. I still maintain that a society must exist with
> rules, go back in history and see why. Do you not enjoy the comforts of
> laws, are you afraid of murders, rapists, etc. would you spend the night
> with one? The laws keep people who have problems like that away from you.
> Do you support the actions of a vicious person who freely chooses to kill or
> rape???? That is freedom of choice also. What would you do against that
> freedom of choice??
> Stay with me...... RW
If we could see into the hearts of others... see ourselves in others...
then what need would there be for rules? Cheating would become
impossible, but even if one were to try all would forgive you. Murder?
How do you murder yourself?
Will the death of one man undo the death of another? Can you change your
mind after the act has been done? If not, do not be so quick to end the
life of another.
No one supports murder. But is murder drug use? The only real effect is
on the person who chooses to use the substance. It may be a crutch of
sorts, but that is for them to decide. Won't exceeding the speed limit
increase the chance that an accident occurs, and more importantly, will it
not make injury to another more likely? Forget about nutmeg or ganja.
Prosecute speeders! :-)
Murderers and rapists are called that because they did not care about the
laws of society to begin with. Your 'safety' depends more upon the
parents in the world, not the laws. The laws are just concepts. If all
of humanity united, they could destroy all governments and laws overnight
through the simple act of discarding a thought. We won't, of course... in
the end the only thing that will bring us together is a big catastrophe.
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"Either this wallpaper goes or I do."
-last words of Oscar Wilde
"Every day people are straying away from church and going back to God."
-Lenny Bruce
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