1997/02/13 16:15
kundalini-l-d Digest V97 #68
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 97 : Issue 68
Today's Topics:
Re: Perspective of Jnana Yoga..intense experiences.
Ignorant Lobster
Re: NEW LIST ADMIN NOTICE.
Re: PEAR, Psi and Randi cont., final 0.2% worth
Re: I love you Bob
<<<<<Scaring the Cat (part deux)
<<<<<Dowsing Amazing Randi
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 02:52:44 -0800
From: Omega <omegaATnospampacific.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Perspective of Jnana Yoga..intense experiences.
Message-ID: <3302F27C.552ATnospampacific.net>
Hi Mystress,
> I wanted to send this out...not quite ready to share it with the list..
And yet here it is on the list anyway!
> Thankyou, Omega, for this fascinating post!
> It appears for me with excellent timing, settling some things in my mind
> about an astonishing/terrifying experience I had Sunday night.
> The post is a long one, It was quite the experience.
You weren't kidding.
> Her suggestion truly blew me away in it's simplicity and ease, and it's
> potential abundance. Safe, fun, legal, taxable, creative, easy, earth
> friendly, aligned with my life mission, nonsexual, and lucrative. I chatted
> about it with my companion, and he agreed on it's perfection.
> And then it frightened me, very badly. Dropped me into a pit of fear that
> I needed help to get out of.
Meditating on the question of abundance was one of the things several
years ago that started me consciously along the path to greater Life. By
researching the possibilities for abundance in the material universe and
playing with the idea of: "What are the deepest desires of my heart?", and
"What would I want if absolutely anything were possible?" I quickly found
out that the hopes are simply too great. That we don't dare for even a
moment to consider the amount of abundance and ecstacy potentially available
to us. To raise our hopes to that extent, and then fail would be crushing.
You saw it from a different viewpoint during your initial opening:
> The door opened inward and I stepped into a blaze of white light and love
> that immediately set my body tingling and vibrating in a way I had never
> felt before. I felt the prescence of angels, beings, thier numbers and the
> size of the place unknowable, my vision obscured by the brilliance, my mind
> and emotions streached to thier very limits to absorb the intensity of the
> unconditional love, while feeling clearly my human limitations. I knew that
> while I felt I was absorbing as much of the love and light as I could, it
> was an infinitsimal portion of the abundance present in this place.
Opening to abundance and ecstacy is probably a larger portion of what we
have to "do" at this time than most everything else put together, so I'm
going to digress on this for a bit. I approached it initially from a
material perspective, but the moment we lift our eyes just a speck we get
bombarded by incomprehensible numbers.
Energy shortage eh? Did we know that the sun puts out:
400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
watts of continuous power, or that this solar system alone can support
a biosphere capable of holding:
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
humans without changing the ratio of human to non-human life.
It took me years for the ramifications of this to sink in, but except for
a group of generally athiestic ultra-technophillic people called extropians,
I found that most people were literally incapable of thinking about this.
Since then I've discovered that not only are there are a number of additional
things we can do here and now on the Earth, but that even talking about it is
practically pointless because in our hearts lies this curtain of utter terror
that we recoil from.
For me, the combination of abundance and desire in my meditations was barely
enough to take me towards this. Ultimately it was when I finally realized
that a fully symmetric physics has to also contain an anti-entropic principle,
that finally something beyond me touched my heart enough to remove a noticable
but tiny chunk of that terror.
For me, I've been chopping at this fear intellectually, I can see its effects,
and intuit that it roils in my heart, but have yet to face it viscerally.
This BTW is why I feel that only ultra-materialists seem to be able to face
the prospect of material abundance, not because they simply think material-
istically, but because materialism allows them to evade this terror in our
hearts. Angelique, on the other hand wrestled with it in the depths of her
heart in a soul wrenching experience:
> The utter perfection of the solution actually began to creep me out. The
> amazing implications of being so easily presented with a solution to the
> dilemas facing me, the knowledge that I had created this amazing possibility
> for ease and abundance, spending all of my time doing the things that
> inspire me most, doing what I love most, for the good of all and harm to
> none, completely ungrounded me.
> I felt my power to create this beautiful reality, and felt the fear in the
> voices saying it's too good to be true. I realized they, too wanted their
> voice in this creation. To wreck it.
> Annoyed with the Nay saying voices, I turned and confronted them head on,
> WHY do I need to feel this unworthiness and sabotage of the idea that money
> might come to me with so abundance and enjoyment and little effort?
> They returned with a torrent of fear. I pulled back, reaching again for
> the beauty of the perfection, it opened a doorway of infinite possibilities
> so vast trying to encompass it with my mind seemed to send me to the edge of
> madness, and the more I contemplated perfection the more the horror rose
> with it.
> I became agitated, my K. rising to freeze my bones electic, and fear and
> acid making me ridgid and hyperactive. I turned to guardians and spirits,
> they were present and supportive, but this fear was mine to overcome, it
> came from deep inside me.
> I tried to help ground through my slave's energy, but although straight, he
> had never seen me in such a chaotic state before, and was frightened himself.
> I began to be frightened of my own power to create, that if this fear was
> not faced and overcome, the negative voices would shape the future. Had been
> shaping it, and were threatened by my choosing a different path.
> I tried to help ground through my slave's energy, but he had never seen me
> in such a chaotic state before, and was too frightened himself.
> All of my ancestors, all of the people who will in jealousy offer negative
> judgements of my lifestyle, all those all over the world who carry the
> belief that life must be hard. All seemed to rise against me to deny my
> choice. A wall of fear based beliefs, carried inside of me in the collective
> unconscous loomed large, and I knew not how to leap over it. I needed help
> just to get grounded, first.
> My reality was up for grabs, and the Fear wanted it. It wasn't getting it,
> but I was having a hard time holding onto my end.
> Not an experience I would recomend to anyone, for sure...don't go
> there..don't go there alone. I have had a lot of experience navigating
> unusual realities, and this almost too far an edge for me.
Angelique talked about grounding several times, but never managed to do it
until the terror was already resolved. Her friend described it as:
> She reminded me that the bones carry a lot of information, rapping on my
> knee and sending shocks up through my spine. "You are dealing with the deep
> fears, and that information is being released from your bones."
while Angelique felt the resolution as:
> I felt the ripple go backward through time, history seemed to reorder
> itself differently, the sense of the prescence of such multitudes faded with
> a whisper of a blessing to the usual assortment of invisible companions.
> My K. took a while to settle down, but my temperature stabilized quickly.
And with this we have true healing and true transformation which she goes on
to describe a few paragraphs later. But at what cost? What was given up,
sacrificed, surrendered to enact this healing? She is very right that this
rippled backward through time to change history, even if the amount is just
an infinitesimal from any "objective" perspective.
What was sacrificed was Angelique as she was. True transformation, is not
evolution. The past does not give way in an evolutionary advancement to the
future, NO, true transformation, changes past, present, and future tout
ensemble to create a new moment in the NOW. The Angelique of a week ago did
not change into the Angelique of today when she went through this experience,
instead the Angelique of a week ago was literally uncreated, cancelled out
of existence, returned to the Void, and a doppelganger from the Void,
appeared to take her place in a now different reality at that moment of this
resolution.
Like I said, from any "objective" perspective the difference may be tiny
beyond belief, but Angelique (bless your heart) you let the power of the
Dark Goddess touch you, however lightly, out of your love for us. Trad-
itional literature talks of Kali, but dancing Kalis with necklaces of
skulls barely touches the power of the Dark Moon.
Men, with their swords, tanks, and nuclear tipped phallusses may know
destructive power, but that is all just a pale reflection of this ultimate
power of the Goddess, the Dark Star that R.J. Stewart talks about in his
book _The Living World of Faery_. He is warned by the Faery that the Dark
star brings a time of terror and doubt, and no wonder, it has the ability
to cancel reality right out of existence. And after years of preparation
by those "little grey guys" Whitley Streiber describes being taken out of
his body to look directly at the Void in its full Terror.
This is what P.K. Dick saw the side effects of when he was led to the very
edge of sanity to pull memories back from a no longer existent reality in
which Nazi Germany won WWII and went on to conquer the whole world. This
ultimately is a power that has the ability to heal anything, and some day
when we can face millions of times as much terror, Shiva and Shakti will be
able to work through us to uncreate even things like WWII itself, and before
that the burning times, etc.
This is the ultimate price for engaging the backward in time causal stream.
This also covers the failure to ground. Ultimately the transformation we
face has us changing our ground itself from the Earth, to that terrible Void
that Whitley Streiber looked at. Is our love great enough to do this? Lori
just recently put out the call for healing for her Father, I put out my call,
but this is where true healing will come from. This is where Kundalini takes
us. This changing of our ground from Gaea to the Void directly is what I
believe that the "greys" are up to, and why just about every tradition talks
about the need to surrender the ego. Like Angelique said:
> First, it said, it was necessary to surrender the ego, and gave instructions.
and
> Recently heartbroken, I asked about my soul mate, and getting an image
> that was niether appealing to me at the time, nor the face of my lost love
> from that moment, Ego flared up trying to change it and the energy faded away.
Ego simply can't deal with a power that uncreates reality. This, and nothing
less is both the terror, and the hope we face. Likewise you mentioned the
jealousy of our ancestors:
> I felt the jealousy of some those whom I have encountered, and how that
> always painful surprise would increase in proportion to the ease and beauty
> I create for myself. I realized the effect of allowing my choices to be
> ruled by the negative emotions of others, and turned to find the jealousy in
> myself.
and their belief in scarcity:
> I felt this incredible amazing dizzying power to create my own life in
> love and abundance, and I felt the felt the combined fear of the belief in
> scarcity of all of my ancestors. All of their investment in the status quo,
> the weight of my parents lifetime of worrying over money, all that fear rose
> to deny my the power to choose differently. I felt right on the edge of
> madness, struggling to hang onto my sense of myself in this comsuming sea of
> power and fear. I knew I needed help getting past this wall, and I knew it
> had to be gotten past now, or else loom even larger when next confronted.
But I think we see now that there's more under the surface. Not only were
they/we forced to live with brutalities of Darwinian evolution for eons with
its relentless scarcity, starvation, and the dog eat dog world of murder,
rape, and pillage, not to mention the more specifically human evils of
treachery and deceit -- BUT when we emerge from the Darwinain process by
engaging the backward in time causal stream (in addition to the foward in
time stream we live in) we are specifically setting up our ancestors for
being literally uncreated (and replaced with something else).
> I have not ever needed to reach out for assistance in dealing with my own
> feelings like this before. Understandable, this is my biggest life issue.
> Fearing what I would create in this fearful state, my hands shaking badly,
> I asked my slave I call my Tantra partner, Wolf for me.
> I ended the call to contact the only person I know personally whose K is
> stronger than my own. Freda Parry, actress, starchild, genuine Fijian
> princess, good friend, force of nature.
> She amazes me.
This is the other danger of psychedelics, they make people face this power
of the Dark Goddess. There is no shame in calling out for help. If we
would be Bodhisatva, this is the price, but by all means we aren't in this
so alone that we can't call on each other for help and comfort. This is
the transformation her friend described by saying:
> "Honey, when you break that chain of negative beliefs, you set them free!
> We are all one, you break this belief, you break it for everybody. All of
> them, your ancestors, your parents, you set your parents free! You are the
> pioneer that says no to the fear, just give them love."
and which Angelique senses quite clearly when she says:
> What has been shifted tho, I think, goes way beyond the issue of money.
> I can feel there has been a major shift inside of myself. I feel lighter,
> a new place of love and confidence has been born inside of me. I am glad I
> created the experience, thankyou, Goddess, Guides and Angels..Lady A. and
> human support....the silver lining of the prize was worth the terror and
> near madness of the challenge.
And yes Angelique, you'll find the courage to go there again and again,
you can't help but find the courage, your love is too great to not go.
> I would not have had the courage to go there, if I had known that place
> existed, even knowing the reward. Maybe I would, I'm pretty cocky....but I
> look forward with joy to see what this new perspective will create.
> Not an experience I would recomend to anyone, for sure...don't go
> there..don't go there alone. I have had a lot of experience navigating
> unusual realities, and this almost too far an edge for me.
> I wonder, when I contemplate my multidimensional self and my connection to
> the planet, what the ripples of this will be? It is the fear of not
> deserving, that there is not enough for everyone that creates greed, which
> in turn creates crime, poverty, economic chaos and environmental destruction.
> As Aley's mantra says, "As I am lifted up, so are all of us."
> I'm not saying my trip will save the world, but does anyone feel any ripples?
Yes the ripples are spreading. I love you all, and feel so grateful to be
with you here during this moment of transformation.
--
In the Ecstatic Service of Life -- Omega
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:03:25 -0800
From: E Jason <vv60ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Ignorant Lobster
Message-ID: <3303495D.7772ATnospamdial.pipex.com>
Hi Paco,
> Ummm, I'd just like to say that, uhhh, your quasi-logical treatise
> has something of the tone of a man who imagines that he knows what he's
> talking about.
My apologies for my imagination and lack of knowledge.
My apologies for expressing what I do not know.
Let me set you straight: I don't know how long you put
> down your self help books in order to write all this, and I don't care.
> What you say is irrational, stupid, and if you have any integrity
> whatsoever you will admit that you have invented this philosophy, and also
> that you have never been anywhere near enlightenment of any kind.
I invented it.
I have never been near enlightenment of any kind.
What I say is irrational, stupid and further
has no integrity.
> Any fool knows to respect his elders, yet you make offhand and
> pompous remarks about a divine power that is far greater than your
> understanding, and is, unlike you, immortal.
> 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 you're out
Thank you Paco.
You are right I have no respect and no understanding.
I make off hand and ill considered remarks about the Divine.
I am not immortal.
What you say is all true.
Most Kind Regards
Lobster
Lightening Search .> .> .> .>>.> > > >> > > >> > > >
access to 8 major search engines - no messing - check it out
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/place/vv60/woad/search.html
--
Lightening Search .> .> .> .>>.> > > >> > > >> > > >
access to 8 major search engines - no messing - check it out
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/place/vv60/woad/search.html
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:02:17 -0800
From: S C Stoner <kcstonerATnospammbcomp.com>
To: Mystress Angelique Serpent <mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, libraATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: NEW LIST ADMIN NOTICE.
Message-ID: <33029249.4DBEATnospammbcomp.com>
Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
> I wrote back yesterday to say that would be fine, even better for the
> list, perhaps, considering the stress and discord that followed his recent announcement.
> He moves fast!
> So it is official: as of today I am the new ListMystress of the Kundalini
> List.
dear sweet mystress angelique...
welcome...congrats on you extended title...
it is nice to have all of this, now far behind us...good to see we are
getting on with things. i have no doubts you will do well and be true
to us!
warmly...
Steven
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:33:26 -0800
From: Peter Norton <pnortonATnospamatwc.teradyne.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: PEAR, Psi and Randi cont., final 0.2% worth
Message-ID: <33036C86.48C7ATnospamatwc.teradyne.com>
Paco wrote:
>
> I was told that that person had corresponded
> with the amazing Randi and was visited by his representatives several
> times. He was able to defeat their tests consistently with his PK, and
> they were not able to distract him or trip him up. After that they
> promptly ignored him and did not honor any of their reward promises.
> Just thought you'd find that interesting.
Hi Paco,
As much as I genuinely admire Randi, I am not surprised.
I think his showmanship and skepticism has got the better
of his scientific pursuit of truth. Plus, he has been right
so often in his debunking career, he is now insufferably cocky.
Dont know if you saw the posts a while ago, but I had asked both
the PEAR psi research group and Randi why dont they
get together and see if Randi's prize conditions have been fulfilled
by PEAR. The answer I got from each, sort of boiled down to 'it's not
worth talking to them, they dont listen' or something like that.
Thomas Kuhn would be delighted to see his theory of noncommuting
paradigms so beautifully illustrated.
I now think Randi's prize offer is really a publicity stunt that
he has no intentions of paying off, the conditions will be written
to guarantee impossibility of 'proof'.
Still, we can hope that Mistress's quest for financial independence
will be fulfilled by her bestowing shaktipat on Randi and thereby
having him sign over the prize money to her, after he has recovered
sufficiently from the shock and gibbering incontinence that results.
But even such radical tactics might be unnecessary, perhaps just the
sight of Mistress on Randi's doorstep in full regalia with whip in
hand would be enough to make him her slave and willingly sign over
the prize money to her? Just think how the K list would benefit!
Anyway, IMHO science should emphasize that they are only interested in
phenomena that are 1. repeatable, 2. independent of the observer,
and 3. quantifiable. And, regarding phenomena that do not fall into
these categories, such as Psi, they should maintain Newton's admirable
attitude of 'Hypothesis non fingo' (I make no hypotheses).
But, instead of being noncommittal about such phenomena, they seem
to try and flat out deny them. Carl Sagan was coming around a bit
in his last book 'The Demon Haunted World' to a more moderate and
open attitude, but then he had to go and die on us.
cheers
The PEAR internet site is at:
http://www.princeton.edu/~rdnelson/pear.html
check out John Gribbin's book 'Schroedinger's Kittens' for info
on scientific/physical basis for the fluidity of time, thus Psi.
Date: 13 Feb 97 16:45:10 EST
From: Michael Yoshpa <74657.3001ATnospamCompuServe.com>
To: "INTERNET:kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: I love you Bob
Message-ID: <970213214509_74657.3001_BHW54-1ATnospamCompuServe.COM>
Dear Paco,
I would like more info about BOB.
Thanks,
Michael.
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:39:46 -0600 (CST)
From: stampmanATnospamix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: <<<<<Scaring the Cat (part deux)
Message-Id: <199702132239.QAA27440ATnospamdfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com>
Hi (k)ites!
You recall my post a while back about 'channelling' and how our
Himalayan cat Dorrie ran up to me and yelled at me to stop. What was
odd is that I have been going through these episodes in the recent past
as Eastern Orthodox Prelate, Alii Nui, Plains Indian Shaman, Tibetan
Buddhist Lama, etc. Usually, she hears a few sounds, knows that the old
man is going nuts again and runs for cover. She often stays hidden for
hours after the episode is over (which usually takes 20-45 minutes.)
That is what was unusual; that instead of heading for shelter, she
actually came up on the bed, walked over to my face and yelled at me as
loudly as she could; again and again.
She did the same thing several nights ago and I now know what she
actually objects to; but can only speculate why. During the channelling
episode of that evening, the Alii Nui came through once more with the
attendant story-telling hand gestures and soprano Hawaiian song. THAT
is what bugged her so badly that she overcame her skittishness and
verbalized her heartfelt desire for me to cease and desist.
Apparently, seeing her master doing Hawaiian storytelling hand
gestures and singing soprano is just too weird; even for a cat!
Love and LAUGHING LIGHT
Dan-RF
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:10:07 -0600 (CST)
From: stampmanATnospamix.netcom.com (Daniel Rusch-Fischer)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: <<<<<Dowsing Amazing Randi
Message-Id: <199702132310.RAA06609ATnospamdfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com>
Hi (k)ites!
The discussion of demonstrable psi-ability triggered a thought. In
one of the TV shows debunking psychic phenomena, the subject of dowsing
was investigated. The conclusion was that 'there is no demonstrable
evidence for finding water using sticks, wires, etc..'
I am here to tell you that not only is there evidence, there is
proof. I have to qualify that a little inasmuch as it was done using
instruments to measure the fields and not waterwitches/dowsers.
During the construction of the New Waddell Dam at Lake Pleasant
above the city of Phoenix, Arizona, I worked as a Hydrologic Technician
on the project and was responsible for dam and hydrologic
instrumentation. During that project, the Bureau of Reclamation
Geophysics Department from Denver, Colorado came down and together we
planted electrodes in the Right Abutment Ridge every 100' for a mile
and one-half.
While the Lake Pleasant Reservoir was being filled behind the New
Waddell Dam I would go out weekly and, dragging a mile-and-
one-half-long reel of wire, would take voltage readings at every
electrode relative to the base electrode.
Guess what those readings were for? You got it, I was measuring the
electrical potential created by water moving through the fissures in
the strata below the ground. By reconstructing the electrical data I
was able to plot exactly how much water was moving at what depth and in
what direction. All of my data, graphs, and field notes are archived at
the New Waddell Dam Archive and at Bureau of Reclamation Headquarters
in Denver under the heading "Self-potential Surveys."
What is perhaps even more interesting is that we were able to do
the same thing on Lake Pleasant. We dropped floating electrodes in a
line in the water, measured the potential and found that we were able
to measure water flowing UNDER the lake!
We were not out to prove that dowsing has a scientific basis. We
were trying to develop a better method of detecting water seepage from
dam systems. Knowing if there is water flowing under a dam or seeping
through one of the abutments is critical to maintaining the integrity
of a dam system. When water flow is detected, holes are drilled and
concrete is pumped into the crevice to plug them.
Bite on that one Randi!
Love and LAUGHING LIGHT,
Dan-RF
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