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Religion and K
Twelve people commented or responded to this Poll.
To the Question: What religious visions/associations/symbolisms/patterns/motifs, etc. have been part of your K awakening?
Surprisingly, to me, animal and water motifs were prominant, with 4 people mentioning visions of snakes. One person mentioned being visited by a Druid, and another mentioned sacred sites. Instructions to read other religious literature was mentioned by one person. Spiritual fairytales mentioned by another.
Q: Did these reflect the religion of your upbringing (or your pre K religion) or did they reflect other religions or philosophies?
Four people said they were brought up as athiests or had no firm religious beliefs during their upbringing, and three others wrote that their religious beliefs had already undergone changes while growing up. On the whole, the visions were totally unrelated to the religions that people were "born into."
A born Hindu had a vision of a Druid. Born Christians had visions of snakes. Born Christians also experienced religious associations as diverse as Hindu, Tibetan Buddhist, Zoroastrian, taoist and Islamic. Water symbols were mentioned twice. Pantheistic dreams and "spiritual fairytales" were also mentioned.
Q. Did these experiences influence a change in your religion?
Almost everyone had a change in how they *viewed* religion. Comments ranged from their beliefs as being "less rigid" to the spritual experience being the "antithesis" of religion. People generally saw religion differently, or now understood religion. The idea, "The mystical is the root of Truth the same to all religions.." or "I found it to be the same human spiritual process in every religious venue," seems a common theme.
Comments:
Question 1.
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I noticed quite a bit of snake stuff popping up here and there. ie. I saw a live snake on a walk I took. Another image that figured prominantly was Water which seemed to be everything below- what below means to my deepest self- and that symbol really seemed to be a healthy gift in my process (I am grateful for it).
The others that figured prominantly were fire and flying and tornadoes (apparently signifying my delving into the spiritual life) and electrity (power) and one which I took to indicated the Law in the larger sense-ie, of the cosmos, and one which I took as an indication that I was heading into areas that may be of a threat to my sanity.
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I have had so many spiritual dreams in the last year and a half since my K awakening, they are what brought me to the Dream Doctor, who because of my symptoms, brought me to the Kundalini Web site....I knew something Spiritual was happening to me, I just didn't know what it was til then.
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I think religion is important in terms of the methods and signposts it provides which assist each soul moving through its own unique journey. Any time- tested tradition will do for the soul which is illuminating from within. The soul will find what it needs, one way or another. If not nearby, then eventually somewhere else.
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I grew up in an atheistic home in a mainly Lutheran country. There have been a few visions or it might be better to call them lucid or shamanic dreams linked with personal things. Very much like spiritual fairytales with speaking pyramid shaped or other geometrical figures, talking animals (a friendly snake, yes!) and plants; also an orthodox Jew, laughing Osho and Monkey the Great Sage (from the Chinese classic) have had their roles.
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At the time it was the snake symbol. Not just in dreams but in my thoughts I remember saying, 'I am not ready for the snake'. And on the second day, it was beautiful cold February day and the snow had fallen the night before and I was out shoveling snow and saw superimposed on the clear blue sky an image of a coiled snake. Where in the world does this potent image and symbology come from. It is different from a mystic religious experience when one might 'see' images from ones religious beliefs. If I had seen a vision of a Christ figure on a cross, would this have been acceptable to my family. It certainly would fit into my frame of reference and upbringing. But, what is amazing about K is that it appears from reading Greenwell that it is relatively common for symbols of K to be manifest without any preconditioning in this life. Mudras and sometimes even Sanskrit words can be voiced without any prior knowledge. This process either taps into a universal consciousness or perhaps we resurface memories from past lives. It makes the experience more unquestionable for me. It is clearly not something that I was trained to believe it is not following a voice from outside it is listening to what is inside and uncovering yourself. Or is it?
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I had a k-awakening in a dream , but a pretty simple dream.I was asked by an interrogatory voice what was my relation with a girl I had met in London ( but with whom I was not romantically entangled). I remember answering the voice that I loved her. That triggered of the most amazing feeling in my head , a small explosion of light which brought me to waking consciousness with the memory of the conversation clearly imprinted in it. <snip> Shortly after thatI had a "vision" of a druid like figure next to my bed, with me in a half asleep state, watching both the druid as well as the curtains flapping in the sea breeze and the fan whirring overhead. The druid was saying something incomprehensible and I was vaguely uneasy. I probably was , from I understood later, having an OBE experience.
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I like most of you have had numerous dream symbolisms. Snakes, natural disasters - tidal waves, earthquakes tornadoes etc.., recently had a dream symbol of 7 different statues coming to life, a cobra was one of them. Occasionally when in that half dream state I see a spiral pattern in my third eye - it is black and white. Another time I was shown eternity, through my third eye. In my normal consciousness I cannot recall what this was or looked like...I guess you can't put eternity into a labelled box..
LOL!
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In my sleep I would receive direction...."Read the book of Enoch." "The Koran is safe", "learn about Qumran" "understand the mysteries of Montana", "study Zoroaster"
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There was also the evening of my k-awakening, I was drawn to read a passage from a book stacked in my cd collection. I had never read it before. I had lost both cds in the box but always kept the book. It was channeling at the Tareth center in Glastonbury, it was all about the changing of the world. I had never read it before but it went on about the higher vibrations. The sacred sites around the world opening to increase the vibration of the whole planet. Awakening the energies that had been put into the Earth long ago by Merlin etc. The booklet was 'Return to the Source' Sacred Sites. As I read it I felt it penetrate my whole being, again as if it had been channeled for me. I felt prescence in the room.
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I would have wild colorful lucid dreams--often with Hindu and Buddhist overtones. I've also had many pantheistic dreams---dreams of cougars, crows, a mongoose, hippo-Rhinos, and pastoral dreams of gallivanting sheep/goats.
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I don't have any vision that appears to me when I am "awake". Whatever symbolism that reaches my "conscious" mind, comes to me through my dreams. Nothing that is obviously religious. The key word is: Water. Water is often interpreted as representing sexual energy which itself is closely connected to K energy. So, whenever I dream of water, I interpret it as a signpost that indicates the state of purity and preparedness of my sexual energy....<snip> I have dreamt of hydroelectric power station. I would visit them, go on the top and see how a powerful stream of water would flow through the turbines. Most of the time, such dreams would come the same night after I purposefully practiced some sort of Sexual Alchemy or otherwise tried to raise the sexual energy.
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Question 2.
I never really had a religious upbringing, I always believed in God, but never believed in organized religion, ... I always had a million questions and never felt like I belonged in this world....God has allowed me to ask some of those questions in my dreams and has answered some and led me to the books "A Conversation with God", 1,2, & 3 for many of the answers to the questions I have had.
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I was born into a fairly ho-hum protestant congregational tradition. Going to Sunday school each week, romping around with the other children, ended up having a very large effect on me, <snip>I began spiraling away from my own cultural roots at that point. After a dispairing early adulthood, I came across meditation, yoga and all of the the doors and understanding that the eastern traditions provide. This occurred long before my K opening. Once K opened, 15 years later, I was already well established in a yogic way of life, so there was no question about how to view what was going on. Mine was a yogic view by then, through and through.
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Well, I have always liked fairytales...
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For me, this was totally separate from any religious experience. My experience was spiritual and not religious and I make a big distinction. I tended to be religious when young. I was brought up in a mainstream protestant religion. Actually, my upbringing was fractured. My mother is Mormon and my father Baptist. I went to the Baptist church with my father; but, there was this real palpable tension about religion in the family. My life has seemed to try to synthesize various religious point of views.
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I have never meditated in my life. Never believed in God. Never disbelieved in Him either.Just was too busy living to give it much thought. I have no religion, though I am a Hindu by birth.
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I do not feel drawn to any particular religous figure or deity. However, I have no doubt that some of my experiences are simply clearing and balancing any residual conflicts that I may have with religion.
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I had visions....One in particular illumined in me an understanding that all religions have the "inner" and "outer"...the organized outer and the inner mystical. The mystical is the root of Truth the same to all religions..
i.e. as mentioned before "a rose is a rose by any other name".... the "outer" religion" meets the people where their differing cultures and upbringing allows...It is greatly influenced and manipulated by men (most well meaning as I choose to believe).
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I would say they have reflected 'new age' more than any other religion. But as I say, the sources I have tapped information from are usually quite diverse and the specifics are imposed by myself. I like to view the situation from the furthest marker, to maintain the biggest picture. Sometimes I get drawn in, but this is usually to show me something I am missing. I can always find my way back. The religion of my upbringing was christianity. I have had problems with its doctrine for as long as I can remember.
If I was to start a religion my laws would be Everything happens for a reason and there are no such things as coincidences (Very Celestine prophecy), and everything is respective of perspective.
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My parents were agnostic and atheist. I did go to Episcopalian Sunday school for a while, but I was always rather scornful of religions from an early age. My sisters are both Tibetan Buddhists, which certainly explains the Tibetan dreams. I'd say, generally, that they reflected post K mysticism rather than religion, though.
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I was raised as a catholic. My parents are practicing and my mother is especially fond of the Virgin Mary. As I mentioned earlier, I even went to see the Pope who was visiting, to cheer him up. But, as I said, I never had any dream that can be qualified as religious. Can anyone tell me to which religion an hydroelectric power station is a symbol of?
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Question 3.
These experiences definitely influenced my way of seeing things and my understanding of God and his ways-- : )
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I would say there was "no looking back" to my Christian roots, but of course there was. As my experience advanced over the years, I found it necessary to honor my roots, the early exposure to "spiritual community" and childhood revelations in Christianity. So I went back and studied and came to understand my experience in Christian terms as well. That was part of a further integration of yoga for me, finding recognition of the truth of my experience in all the traditions I encountered, including the one I was brought up in. I found it to be the same human spiritual process in every religious venue. For me, religion is relevant if it fits the experience, not vice versa.
In the end, formal religion becomes less relevant as far as the journey of the soul is concerned. I think Sai Baba said it best:
"It is good to be born in a religion, but not so good to die in one."
In the end the journey will transcend its own path.
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I believe in changing personal religion. I have been a lot more rigid in my spiritual thinking than I was able to see at the time. This has changed - I see a bit better my conditional thinking . Yes, the experiences have been important on many levels.
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It all seems such a mystery....... I became spiritual during those days when K erupted in me, and the remnants of religion dropped away. Religion seems to be imposed from outside. It is a circle of people all reinforcing one another since they can quote the same words and go around in circles. Spirit and K come from within. It is the true self, attempting to rediscover what is behind the layers and layers of interpretation and programming placed on meaning in this experiential frame. It is a radical self-discovery. Religion tends to cover-up and create blankets of beliefs to crawl under and hide from the truth. K strips all away until you are naked with only life left - raw and unfettered. You in-corp-orate and reinvent constantly who you are. To me, K is the antithesis of religion.
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Since Hindu thought is structured around K, I began to read and understand all the bewildering facets of it. I am still irreligious, but I can understand why religions are made. Can't say I agree with the philosophy, though.
I like Krishnamurthy. " All religions are filth!"
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I grew up in a very structured religous household. Fear and control seemed to be predominant features. When I reached my late teens I began to question 'The Truth' I was raised with. Over the ensuing months/years I met a few key people (clairvoyants, teachers, healers) who were instrumental in helping me cross a bridge. I came to realize that we lived in an incredible Universe of energy.
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My beliefs today.... I'm a Christian. That's my outer....Why should that change? Sure, my Christianity means something totally different to me than most others but that is where I have been placed. Today I'm blessed to have tremendous influence within realm of others and my presence or the Divine presence within me sets an example of Love, freeing others too to question the outer as the sole means and to pursue the inner. The outer religion is filled with people desiring to understand.....sure many are confused, angry, cynical and judgmental. Do so many of you really think the greater good is served by dropping out of "religion"? Or judging any religion as wrong? If you are so enlightened are you not doing the work of the Divine by bringing your manifestation of the inner the Truth and modeling it properly within the frame work of men. Is in not a necessary step in the evolution of all mankind?
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They showed me that religions are just that - religions. They frame the spirit, mount it in a public gallery so that all can gaze upon it behind the insecurity of man at certain opening and closing times, for fear someone might steal it.
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Well, judging by the religious "test" I'd have to say absolutely! :)
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I scored 0% for Roman Catholic! and 100% for New Age. That didn't surprise me as for a few years I have considered myself as part of the New Age movement. <snip> My change of religion definitely preceded whatever experience I have had of energy going up my spine. Kundalini is certainly making sure to proceed one small step at a time, waiting to see that I am ready before moving forward. This is why I have so far avoided the most troublesome K symptoms. That is, up to now. I don't know what will happen next. :-)
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I have always somehow believed in God. Yet, when I was a teenager, I was starting to seriously question the religion I inherited from my parents. I was careful though not to throw away the baby with the bath water (He! Water again!) like my older siblings did before me. At one stage, I was claiming:
"I don't believe in God" but at the same time, in my mind, I would think:
"God will forgive me: He/She/It knows what I mean".
I remained some years stuck between two modes of thinking, until I read a book which has been a real eye opener for me: Ouspensky's "The Fourth Way".
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I found my k awakening to be a cure for religion.
Could religion have been invented to be a substitute for k awakening?
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What I am seeing here, and in my own experience, is that the imagery of K is its own, self contained, coming from within, always symbolic of the primordial process going on within us. It appears that formal religion may have little or nothing to do with this process. Is that an eye opener, or what?
END
Thanks everyone!
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