To: K-list
Recieved: 2003/03/25 13:02
Subject: RE: [K-list] Course change?
From: Rita Metermaid
On 2003/03/25 13:02, Rita Metermaid posted thus to the K-list:
Hi Rich and All -
I'm resending this post, which did not go through last
night. Second times a charm?
--- Rich <ulterium AT_NOSPAM barrysworld.com> wrote:
>
> > Oh, i am so not qulaified to debate free will. I
> am not smart
> > enough, or well read enough, or intellectual
> enough, or
> > whatever - bigger minds than mine have a better
> grasp of that.
>
> Does it matter?
It seems like a waste of bandwidth for me to take on
something that others are more capable of debating
(not that it's never stopped me in the past, though,
LOL).
>
> > If we are an instrument of God's peace (or Goddess
> or Spirit
> > or ...), would that (being the instrument of
> > peace) qualify as *purpose*? Is it possible that
> in our
> > surrendering to God/dess' plans, that we won't
> always know
> > the purpose? There are things that have happened
> in life that
> > i will never *understand*, but that i am learning
> to accept...
>
> I understand this :)
:-)
> > Hmmm, i don't feel a sense of purposelessness...
> But i'm not
> > sure how much of the *purpose* is *my* choice
> alone -
> > granted, i am making choices, but who determines
> what the
> > list of possibile choices comprise? And is the
> spirit of
> > God/dess guiding my hand in the choice *i* make or
> is it just
> > the human part of me in charge of this?
>
> You summed this up nicely IMO. Is choosing goddess
> way still a choice of free will?
Thanks. What if all of the available choices that
appear on our menu of options are there because of
God/dess? Then no matter what we choose, it is
God/dess' plan? Do we have free will to pick something
from outside the available choices? And even if not,
does being limited to those choices mean there is no
free will? And where does volition come into play?
>
> Is there a point of no return I wonder? That one
> could surrender to
> something so fully they forget they ever surrendered
> and loose there
> previous sense of self and there ability to pull
> back out of what they surrendered to.
That's a good question, imo. Let me ask you this, what
is a *sense of self* in this context? I think i can
maybe remember a time in my life before having a sense
of surrender, but i wonder if i had surrendered all
along and just forgot it, as you suggest...(Teachers
have told me since childhood about my purpose in being
here as not for *me* but for God's plan for
*others*...) And it was only deep, intense
circumstances that brought the (re)awareness to the
surface.
> > > How did the ball start rolling without some
> element of free-will?
> >
> > Sadly, you who are smarter than i should talk
> about this.
> > Seriously, can anyone on the k-list help with this
> one?
>
> Why do you project this idea of me being smart? I
> am really stupid, honest! Anyone will tell you that
;)
Well, first, i didn't say *you* specifically are
smart, but it is my sense that you are more
well-versed in some areas than i am, this being one of
them, and therefore you are *smarter than i* - which
is what i said. However, i meant no disrespect to you
and am sorry about saying what i said.
> > Yes - i think that is spot on. Except how do we
> know that we
> > are not sometimes *filtering* things with our own
> *baggage*?
> > Like you say, it is through feeling with your
> heart, right?
>
>
> > > There is no need to resist when there is nothing
> to fear
> > loosing. Even
> > > anothers energy assault. From my experience I
> can stand
> > face to face
> > > with someone shouting and rattling off and have
> an inner
> > smile knowing
> > > they can't really touch me.
> >
> > That must be very nice to feel. Important to give
> up
> > *fear* and then the inner smile can appear. I like
> the way you said this>
>
> I still get pulled down and caught up in things and
> make a mess of myself.
> Most often when the other person hits me with
> something of likeness to what is unresolved in
myself.
>
Yes, that can be hard. Especially if what we see in
the other person is one of our own *faults* - we can
end up being really hard on ourselves, and on the
other. Important to be compassionate and patient, and
maybe help the other see the flaw or understand what
is going on? Both help each other and not find fault
with each other? Do you think that is possible? It is
hard when people are very much alike in some negative
way... :-(
> Occasionally it can be like how is described and it
> can be fun, but actually
> this happens seldomly which is no doubt a good
> thing.
Fun is only good occasionally?
> > > > How can we tell what is what? There must be a
> way to be
> > very still
> > > > and listen to God/dess within our
> > > Hearts, to
> > > > ferret out any fear or anger or something
> within
> > > us, if that
> > > > is the cause OR if that is not the cause.
> > >
> > > Sure... We always know but don't always
> listen...
> >
> > I think you're right. Is that where silence or
> stillness come
> > in, or maybe meditation? The ability to be really
> still and
> > present and aware?
>
> My heart tells me this. Stillness is a clearer way
> to hear it's voice. Meditation isn't really
necessary.
I think you're right. For people who cannot tap into
stillness readily or often, maybe meditation helps
with outer calming, that leads to inner calming, too?
An awareness of the heart then?
> Experience has told me that if I'm really clogged up
> with stuff then it can
> be very hard to get in touch with the heart. As
> other things seem to take
> attention more or change my focus/priority.
Yes... Life, work, war, parenting, elderly parents,
illness... Anything. Sigh.
>
> > But the last time? Yes, i was not afraid and was
> rady
> > to die... Which i didn't do, of course. :-)
>
> Is this something you might be open to sharing? It
> would be nice to hear how
> you experienced this and where you're lack of fear
> came from or was based in?
>
Not counting childhood abuse, i have been raped -
multple times over the years, as have many others on
this list. One 3 of those occasions (but not all of
them), i felt that my life was in danger. The first
one, i was terrified, and ended up only raped, not
harmed by the straight-edge razor blade he had. The
second time that i felt fear of death, i had been
stalked, cornered, kidnapped - and it went on for many
hours. I was nearly paralyzed in fear, totally unable
to cry out for help, vocals paralyzed to an almost
whisper. And i felt death was coming because i had
been so fortunate to escape it the first time - felt
like the law of averages was catching up to me. And
also because i was with him for so long and i saw his
face totally - i could identify him. But again, i
eluded being hurt by his knife, just the rapes and
terror and trying to talk to him and be human enough
that he would spare me.
But the third time that a weapon was involved and
death seemed a distinct possibility (almost 7 years
later and 3000 miles distant), something different
kicked in for me. There was a feeling of intense calm
and like a radiant warmth, and i left my body and just
watched. No fear, no pain, no physical feeling.
Watched him burn me with cigarettes - more than 30
separate burns. Watched the whole thing... The knife,
the beer bottle... Woke up on the gravel near my car,
drove to the doctors, who called the police. Crashed
and burned afterward, and stayed with friends to
recover for a long time.
To answer your question, *where* the lack of fear came
from or was based in? Something *higher* than me...
Being protected, in that precise moment, surrendering
to the experience, basically just giving up in
preparation for death, but no fear at all, and
suddenly being protected.
Thanks for asking. I don't know if it makes any sense
to anyone, and i am not saying that not being afraid
to die right there implies that i was unscathed
afterward - a lot of fear after the fact - fear that
he would come back and finish the job, etc.
love and peace,
rita
> Love and peace,
>
> Rich
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