To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/12/17 03:34
Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Hypnagogic Entities
From: Zarko Kecman
On 1999/12/17 03:34, Zarko Kecman posted thus to the K-list:
-----Original Message-----
From: Marion Hanvey <loulou_3ATnospamhotmail.com>
To: CKRESSATnospamaol.com <CKRESSATnospamaol.com>; KundaliniATnospamList-Server.net
<KundaliniATnospamList-Server.net>
Date: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Hypnagogic Entities
My own experiences show me that pain exist when there is cause.
Suffering exist only because of attachment, not to cause, but to pain.
For me, pain is a good guide.
Suffering exist between pain and you. It is some form of connection and
identification
between you and the pain in the time.
A was have a lot of trouble with suffering, but now, I give to her a quit :)
p.s. This is not reply to your post Lo... Just to say what is my experience.
>Dear El
>Who is Dennis Miller?
>
>Re your letter. Of course pain and suffering exist, to pretend otherwise
is
>ridiculous. When people say pain exists but suffering does not exist, my
>understanding of this is that after the actual cause of the pain is past,
>people (well I do anyway)tend to hold on to bitterness and "life's bloody
>not fair why did this have to happen to me? What did I ever do to anyone,
I
>only tried to do good"
>So the mind goes over and over it, like chewing gum, hanging on to it, not
>letting go. So at that point the suffering is an illusion because by then
>you're doing it to your own self. So you extend the pain, the length of
>suffering with your own mind, your own thoughts.
>Love
>Loulou
>
>>From: CKRESSATnospamaol.com
>>Reply-To: CKRESSATnospamaol.com
>>To: KundaliniATnospamList-Server.net
>>Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Hypnagogic Entities
>>Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:57:49 EST
>>
>>In a message dated 12/14/99 9:24:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>>aurasphereATnospamhome.com writes:
>>
>><< I understand your post well, El, understand me as well. You will not
>>hear
>>me
>> say ever: "There is no suffering!" but I will forever say that:
>>"Suffering
>> is illusion and illusion is suffering." Have written about that plenty a
>> time now.>>
>>
>>This is another of the recurring themes/arguments on list: the validity of
>>pain, suffering and fear. Most of us are probably agreed that these are
>>undesirable experiences which we'd gladly eliminate from our lives if we
>>could.
>>
>>There are levels of consciousness in which pain, fear, etc. are
experienced
>>differently or not at all. For instance, in my 6 week energy field state,
>>there was no fear whatsoever. Once, I accidently (?) slammed my foot
>>against
>>a table, resulting in a swollen, black and blue toe that throbbed for
days.
>>In the energy field state, the pain was experienced as just another
feature
>>in the landscape -- intense, but not personally disturbing.
>>
>>Some people extract perceptual realities from one level and try to impose
>>them on another. It's analogous to an adult declaring to an infant, "Hey,
>>quit laying around helpless in your crib and go get a job. I did it, and
>>so
>>can you." Or someone in peak condition in their twenties marching into a
>>nursing home and prevailing upon the elderly residents to cast aside their
>>wheelchairs and start training for the Olympics. Well intentioned,
>>perhaps,
>>but really badly-timed advice. You can spend your life leaning over the
>>pond
>>exhorting to the fish: "Gills are history. Grow lungs!" Unless their
>>biological clocks are geared to click into evolution mode, they aren't
>>likely
>>to leap onto dry land and declare, "Thanks for the tip, Baba. Breathing
>>air
>>is soooo kewel!"
>>
>><< Pain is pain, pain is not illusion. Suffering is illusion. The body
>>(brain)
>> has a way of dealing with pain (ask Angelique).>>
>>
>>With all due respect to Angelique, the kind of "torture" that occurs in
S&M
>>is consensual and contained within safe limits. If she were inflicting
the
>>kind of pain on her slaves that I've experienced, where they wound up
>>bedridden in agony for two years straight and in chronic, disabling pain
>>thereafter, she'd be facing lawsuits up the wazoo. It's true that in the
>>most extreme pain, the mind blanks -- the person loses consciousness or
>>otherwise disassociates from the body. But this is only temporary. One
>>returns to the damaged, pain-wracked body and most people experience
>>suffering with this.
>>
>>You are where you are, and being told that what you feel is unreal does
>>nothing but deny the truth of your experiences. Most of us have been so
>>socially indoctrinated already that we are barely able to trust what our
>>own
>>hearts, minds and senses tell us. We don't need instruction on how to
>>become
>>even more self-alienated.
>>
>>If someone wants to talk about how they've managed to transcend pain and
>>fear
>>and suffering, fine. I have nothing against acknowledging that there are
>>other possibilities, other perceptions of reality. And for those who
>>haven't
>>yet experienced that firsthand, it can be welcome news to learn that
>>vulnerability and struggle isn't all there is. But at times when it's
>>taking
>>all your strength and attention to process the experiences you're having,
>>the
>>last thing you need is someone on the sidelines dismissively redefining
>>your
>>reality for you.
>>
>>"But that's just my opinion, I may be wrong" (Dennis-Miller-false-humility
>>closing line).
>>
>>El
>
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