To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/12/15 09:35
Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Hypnagogic Entities
From: Marion Hanvey
On 1999/12/15 09:35, Marion Hanvey posted thus to the K-list:
Dear Wim,
I agree. When the pain stops and it does eventually stop,(when you're dead
it certainly stops!) it's the mind going on about it that causes the
suffering "it shouldn't have been that way".
What we need to do is train our minds. Easier said than done I know.
P.S. Thanks for the great advice! Funnily enough something inside has been
saying "de-tox de-tox" for the past couple of weeks now.
Funnylier enough the pain has now gone!
I will still try your supplement and other suggestions though. Might even
stuff some fish down my throat. (I'm vegetarian)
Might even give up ciggies. (sigh)
Love
Loulou
>From: "Wim Borsboom" <aurasphereATnospamhome.com>
>Reply-To: "Wim Borsboom" <aurasphereATnospamhome.com>
>To: <CKRESSATnospamaol.com>, <KundaliniATnospamList-Server.net>
>Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Hypnagogic Entities
>Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:21:20 -0800
>
>Dear El,
>
>Appreciate your post.
>
>I wrote amongst other things:
> >>... trying to make ppl. discover that
> >>there is only reality and that suffering is illusion.
>
>You wrote:
> >A yogi (or some sort of spiritually inclined fellow, distinguishable from
>the
> >arty-farty crowd by his impeccable all-white clothing) stood up from the
>back
> >of the room and announced, "There is no suffering! Pain is an illusion!"
> >To which the poet shouted back, "You stay here -- I'm going out to my car
>and
> >getting my gun. When I come back, I'm going to shoot you and we'll see
>what
> >an illusion pain is!"
> >The yogi beat a fast retreat out of the building and was never seen at a
> >reading again.
>
>So your yogi (x) said:
>"There is no suffering! Pain is an illusion!"
>
>I'm not suggesting that I was that yogi guy about 30 years ago in Berkeley,
>I could very well have been. I was there at that time in Berkeley, not in
>that cafe specifically. I may very well have been dressed in white, not so
>impeccably though, camping in California was a dusty business. What words
>would I have used? The same words as I wrote in my post as quoted above?
>Absolutely, when I was 14 years old I used the same words and kept
>standing... I was 22 and kept standing still... the gun lowered. Did that
>enlighten ppl. What do I know? It did enlighten me. I am 55 and yesterday I
>stood. Have been standing, have been on the floor, been both. Not sure at
>this moment whether I am alive or whatever... :-) Who can tell, how can we
>know?
>
>Is there a difference between his and my words, semantics?
>
>There is a difference between verbiage and understanding. But you could
>very
>well add: "There is a difference between understanding and standing and
>remaining standing as the gun is being aimed."
>
>You see the difference? Compare the quotes!
>Pain is pain, pain is not illusion. Suffering is illusion. The body (brain)
>has a way of dealing with pain (ask Angelique). But the mind *under threat
>of a tormentor* has a way of turning pain into suffering, anguish, anxiety,
>which breeds subservience on which the tormentor feeds, which process
>breeds
>tormentors, etc. That dynamic can be understood, the suffering can be
>alleviated by seeing the illussiveness of it, the if... then...ness, the
>reward/punishment trick. And as that dynamic is understood and realized the
>torment will cease... granted... one tormentor at a time, one
>'re-originating being' at a time.
>(written enough about that in previous posts)
>
>So much love,
>Wim
>
>PS.
>El, you wrote:
> >What we really need is for people like Wim to stand beside the person
>being
> >tortured repeat as often as needed (until the point gets across): "There
>is
>no >suffering!"
>
>I understand your post well, El, understand me as well. You will not hear
>me
>say ever: "There is no suffering!" but I will forever say that: "Suffering
>is illusion and illusion is suffering." Have written about that plenty a
>time now.
>We can prevent carnage, by overcoming illusion, fear. It may be one person
>at a time.
>I know already what you mean, could you find out wh... ... ...?
>
>
>
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