To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/11/30 02:27
Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Sckeptics* Anonymous
From: Wim Borsboom
On 1999/11/30 02:27, Wim Borsboom posted thus to the K-list:
Dear Freda,
Thanks for your long response.
Definitely love to answer you at some length, please bear with me if I get
carried away with my bad writing habits and other offensive :-)attitudes.
Please take me lightly.
You wrote:
>I understand that I dont understand the particulars about this semen to the
brain ...
There is a Sanskrit term for this fenomenon, which I don't use. I try to
limit my use of Sanskrit terms, as such terminology may alarm certain
readers (and would not clarify anything anyway and would lead to
skepticism). I use as much as possible western language and pictorization
(is that a word?) without wanting to get into bio-technical stuff, in the
first place because that is not my expertise, in the second place because I
want to use my my limited English vocabulary to describe my experiences
which are I admit very personal, (what else could they be?) which should not
make them unbelievable. My experiences have lead me to 'my' discovery, truly
not special but somewhat different from the norm (as All kundalites know who
go through this wondrous process) )of the sanctity and divinity of all life
(in all variations of energy/matter, from the immense collossal gross to
finest, brocaded subtle) all energy manifestations in and of the universe...
of which I want to bear witness. That is all because this is it.
I do not write this to win over skeptics, have given up on that long ago. I
write for ppl. who may be able to relate to this. Also I do not write to
prove anything, please believe me, if proof is needed one can go to India
where there are many yogis who are into proving these 'weird' fenomena...
and it still does not convince.... I have indicated what books to read if
one wants to check this out. I don't feel that I should repeat the eastern
equivalent of my experiences. For me it was good enough to know that I was
not alone and that i was not a freak.
The reason I write about this is that something odd and rare(?) happened to
me physically (With extremely strong spiritual connotations and
repercussions. Of course!) that I at the time of occurrence did not
understand and could not explain and which initially gave me great agony
(happened to Teresa of Avila as well). Subsequently I read in various
Sanskrit books reports of this occurrence. I have tried to explain my
physical changes to my good friends in the medical profession and to
psychiatrists and psychologists as well. (I never lost repect for them, even
if they thought that what happened to me was odd. Nor did I lose their
respect, in fact our friendships deepened.) To put myself at ease I had to
search for corroboration so I tried to find descriptions or approximations
of this in the medical literature and later on internet. Only one person
wrote about nectar flow on the net and that was... Dan Winter (surely an odd
person, aren't you Dan? But... oddity does not preclude believability). I
met one person on Vancouver Island and have recently met with a well know
athlete trainer from Hawaii who reported similar 'sweet things', also two
Martial Arts masters (one of them a world champion twice over, which of
course proves nothing.) The athletes called it (nectar) the "juice", and
they reported on sweetness of saliva, as well as the sweet drops at the
bottom of the skull above the soft palate. I have since met one lady here in
Victoria who went *as a woman* through the same experience, the nectar flow.
I have asked from the list if any women has/have experienced same and
through what process, Obviously not seminal process, but by some vaginal
secretion that may be identical to some sub-stance in semen. (One hopeful
response so far.)
I write about this openly, as I know from their descriptions of certain
kryas, that some members on our K list are very close to it and that they
may recognize the onset. The nectar flow can be preceded by rather fearful
episodes. Episodes that are so strong (not dangerous as most books indicate,
even though near suffocation and immensely deep panic or anxiety attacks may
be the case) episodes so filled with fear that it will scare most Kundalites
off... into episodes of regression stagnation and indeed "certified" mental
illness. *Preventing* oneself to go through the fear *produces* mental
illness, K retardation or K stagnation. Working through the fear, and I
have in some of my posts given hints as how to understand the dynamics of
this fear, will have one enter into the final stages of Kundalini towards
self reintegration... and the nectar flow. The flow, which at some point
becomes non-reversible (As attested in some old literature, I am testing
this and am taking some risk doing this.) From there... other neat things
are in store...
>yet to understand you see it is something that is
>unacceptable to 'my' brain, as of yet, I dont say it isnt something you
>have experienced, it just goes against 'my' logic.
>So, I read it and get on with other stuff, my mind isnt closed,
>but I also dont understand how it is possible.
I accept the 'your' logic problem fully. I am happy enough that you do not
call me a liar. :-)
As to understanding, I also do not understand HOW it is possible. Only know
THAT it is possible, THAT it happens, even to a Wim B. like me, and that I
am not alone, and that I would love to have other ppl. wanting to learn more
about this issue and that I would like to see more fellow beings participate
in this divine and glorious bliss... which by the way is everyone's due... I
am just impatient :-) :-)
If I could, I would force ppl to be in bliss and glory forever :-)
Wim wrote:
>> Just reading that gets my brain folds contorted and warped. Can't even
tell
>> left from right anymore. :-)
Am not saying that what Tom wrote was a of Zen Koan quality, but it poduced
some satorical laughter in me. (Happy laughter, not sarcastic!)
>I wonder if it is a confusion between up and down your really having
>trouble with, not left from right. : ))
>THAT is humor, just in case you misunderstand.....
I Appreciate it
>....I am sorry because you seem to be offended that others
>find your experiences odd enough that and ask for clarification, or
proof...
How can I convince you that I am not offended?
>... and sorry that some of us need that proof.
The need for proof has created many a disbeliever and keeps many a person in
suffering.
Jesus said something about that ... to do with faith ... but I better not
carry on lest I offend some other sensitivities.
>I'll never get it in this lifetime, being as a woman.
But you can get the nectar flow !!!!!
In earlier and other cultures that was/is denied to the woman, that is so
absolutely unfair... and untrue...
Is it to be striven for? NO!!!
But it will be the result if you persist in the authentic fearless K process
of reorigination and restoration of DIVINE SELF
>It seems to me that if you have been blessed, or cursed,
>with something outside of what is 'norm' for others
> - seeminly the same as you, ie... human man...
>then the burden of proof would be yours, its the way it works,
>logical, not fair maybe, frustrating even to some I would suppose,
>but understandable.
As I said before, proof is not what I am after, and I don't understand why
ppl would want proof if they can HAVE the experience of the physical
participation in divine glory and bliss.
Looking for proof may just be that what precludes the experience. (Would it
not be funny if that were the case?)
Proof would indeed be THE burden as dealing with "unbelief" (I mean this
well) would quite likely stop the fenomenon and manifestation of the
physical participation in divine glory and bliss.
>I find is sometimes difficult to sort the garbage from the authentic in
>the spiritual things,
True enough. This is a physical manifestation though of spiritual wonder.
>I have experienced things which I would not repeat to another human,
>cause I cant explain it even to me.
Have no fear, bear witness...
>.....Knowing you will be called to the carpet by the masses,
>YOu know you will, it wouldnt be an interesting topic if it were
>otherwise,
How should I understand this? I have no fear, and... I am not stupid.
>quite frankly when I read you talking down to those who quesion you, I
>read arrogance in your words, and a little, "ner, ner, ner ner,
>I got upwards semen and youuuuu donnnnt, ner, ner, ner ner ner ner!"
All I can tell you is that that is not the case. How can I convince you of
that?
Talking down, ah yes, you may be right, but what I wrote was not directed at
you.
People I write to, sometimes DO accept my stabs ....
Talking down, yes have done that before, and am still so sorry about that.
I might just be a slow learner... but in slow learning I am surely not the
only one :-)
I do not profess to be somebody perfect, I do not mind human faults.
I do not mind anybody's faults, have we got any pride to lose?
Because K ppl. don't mind they can absorb a stab or two... look at Jesus
When Jesus asked some ppl to throw the first stone if they without sin, he
did not throw a stone himself either.
Sounded like a good jab though!
The master athlete (which status I am not aiming for) still has to train and
will miss the mark.
The best master/mistress is his/her own best pupil/slave (m/f) (Offered to
my dear Angelique.)
>No matter your underlying jabs at those of us less enlightened than you.
That feels like jab to me, but it is well taken and helpful in my process to
receive more light (even if just the little stars that come with a black
eye:-)
There may be an end to the path towards enlightenment. There might not even
be a path to enlightenment... but the light keeps on coming, thank god
>I know I have a distance to travel yet before I have anything
>that even remotely resembles enlightenment,
>so your jabs, even though they are directed at others,
> I read them and take them personally,
>oh oh, that would make it MY problem,
>yeah yeah yeah, I know that, that is why I am
>jumping in on this : )
You can still blame me for it, after all, reading my stuff has keyed you
in... I accept my role in that.
And I accept responsibility for that... maybe not all responibility... not
enough maybe....
But go ahead, BE mad at me. I may just be the bully you need to overcome.
>Be genle with me, I'm at the bottom of the totem pole upon which you
>sit,
Oh kick me off it OK, you don't be gentle with me now, Freda :-)
Thanks Freda,
Love, Wim
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